Semi-Auto Groups and Range Reports

[jwsnydes]

I want to start a resource where we put up some semi-auto groups and range reports to give people who are looking at (like I was a few years ago) what they could reasonably expect from a gas gun vs going bolt in the precision arena. Gun specs and ammo would be helpful for folks too. Load data if not factory will also help.

For calculating groups I used an old free program that most of you are familiar with, OnTarget Software but there is also a more updated and feature rich version available now. Feedback and constructive criticism would be very helpful also. Thanks!


I'll start with a recent trip out to the Black Hills. 80 degrees, 3500ft elevation, wind 5mph.

Gun:
18.5 inch Rock Creek 308 5R barrel
Mega Arms Monolithic Maten upper/lower matched
Rock River Arms NM Two Stage Trigger
JP lmos BCG
JP Adjustable Gas Block
Magpul PRS Stock
Rifle Length Gas System
Vortex Viper 4-16 PST Mil/Mil FFP
Thunder Beast Arms 30-BA
Harris Bipod

Ammo:
Factory 175gr SMK Black Hills Ammunition 308 & Factory 175gr SMK Buffalo Bore Sniper 308 (pictured 3 shot group). Both shot solid groups.

A View of the range we set up.

600 yard target hits (3 shots) and shooter.

Mega Arms Maten and 600 yard target (3 shots).

Credit Card next to the 3 shot group at 600 Yards. Sub 0.3 MOA.

 

[thejeep]

Pretty sweet setup you have there.

 

[Cartman]

Fine looking country and nice shooting.

 

[CrossHare]

What's in your wallet?!

 

[shooter545]

Very nice looking property and rifle!

 

[wielywilly-g]

"what they could reasonably expect from a gas gun" This is more luck than typical for a semi auto 308 shooting factory ammo. Shoot 6 5-shot groups and avg to get the MOA of the system. Removes luck from the picture. Enter it in Elf's 300yd shootout and you will win top prize, or get shamed for claiming sub .3 moa. Nice looking setup though!

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

"what they could reasonably expect from a gas gun" This is more luck than typical for a semi auto 308 shooting factory ammo. Shoot 6 5-shot groups and avg to get the MOA of the system. Removes luck from the picture. Enter it in Elf's 300yd shootout and you will win top prize, or get shamed for claiming sub .3 moa. Nice looking setup though!

This is what I was thinking. That group should not be expected to be the norm. Most bolt guns can't shoot that good consistently, at least most of mine can't. Let's see multiple 5 shot groups instead of one cherry picked 3 rounder.

Regardless of my statement that is one fine ass 3 round group at 600! Looks like a great rifle as well.

 

[jwsnydes]

This is what I was thinking. That group should not be expected to be the norm. Most bolt guns can't shoot that good consistently, at least most of mine can't. Let's see multiple 5 shot groups instead of one cherry picked 3 rounder.

Regardless of my statement that is one fine ass 3 round group at 600! Looks like a great rifle as well.

"what they could reasonably expect from a gas gun" This is more luck than typical for a semi auto 308 shooting factory ammo. Shoot 6 5-shot groups and avg to get the MOA of the system. Removes luck from the picture. Enter it in Elf's 300yd shootout and you will win top prize, or get shamed for claiming sub .3 moa. Nice looking setup though!

My point, and what I'd like to have others show is, what they can do with decent equipment vs sub-par equipment vs excellent equipment. As a resource, focusing on the upper end of their results.

On this trip it happened to hold groups from 3/10 to 3/4 MOA during the day of shooting ( 80 rounds). I was shooting with another guy and most of our targets got muddled with our mixed groups. This happened to be the one I shot at right before a repaint and it was picture worthy. Also on the low end of my MOA day.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

My point, and what I'd like to have others show is, what they can do with decent equipment vs sub-par equipment vs excellent equipment. As a resource, focusing on the upper end of their results.

On this trip it happened to hold groups from 3/10 to 3/4 MOA during the day of shooting ( 80 rounds). I was shooting with another guy and most of our targets got muddled with our mixed groups. This happened to be the one I shot at right before a repaint and it was picture worthy. Also on the low end of my MOA day.

I understand what your trying to do, but I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in your plan.

So here I have a 3 shot group @100y using a factory Marlin 45/70 rifle. Leupold 3X scout scope and hunting rounds. This is obviously not a precision rifle, but this group would lead you to believe the gun is sub moa if you hold 3 round groups to be true. I think I would have better odds at winning the lottery than getting another group like this out of the rifle again.

 

[ss355]

Here are a couple examples from two of my rifles. First rifle is a DPMS LR 6.5 Creedmoor. The gun has a 24", button-rifled, stainless bull barrel and sports a RRA-2 stage trigger. Atop the gun is a Vortex 6-24x SFP mil/mil scope sitting in Weaver Tactical rings (I think they're Weaver rings; maybe Burris, but they're aluminum and only $35 a pair) on an EGW 20 MOA riser. The only shots through the Creedmoor, so far, have been factory loads. At the time I shot this target, I probably had less than 100 rounds down the tube, and it was a brand new rifle. I shot indoors at 100 yards with Hornady's 120 grain and 140 grain Amax loads. Squares on the target are 1". Keep in mind this is essentially a factory gun with a mass-produced tube shooting factory ammo.



Compare that to my 6.5 Grendel that I put together. I bought the 24", stainless, cut-rifled, bull barrel/bolt combo directly from Les Baer for coin north of six hundred Benjamins and mated it to a Mega heavy-weight SBU billet upper with a right side charging handle slot cut. Standard forged lower (Stag, maybe?) with an Armalite 2-stage trigger and ACE skeleton stock with the nice, soft foam cheek pad around the receiver extension tube. Bushnell 4200 Elite 4-16x AO scope set in extra high Warne steel rings. Although this scope doesn't have external turrets or ballistic compensating reticle, it does provide plenty of magnification at 100 to ensure my aim is exactly where I want it to be. This gun shoots factory Hornady 123 grn Amax ammo pretty well, but these shots are reloads, shot at the same indoor range at 100 yds:

 

[redirt78]

Ought to make a clean sweep of Elfster's "do it all day" threads. Look forward to seeing that. Check his threads, they are pretty much exactly like what you are looking for. Real life shooter/equipment tests.


Seriously though, that is a nice 3 shot group. If you can do that with any kind of consistency, hell yeah. That is a badass rifle and some fine shooting.

 

[jwsnydes]

Here are a couple examples from two of my rifles. First rifle is a DPMS LR 6.5 Creedmoor. The gun has a 24", button-rifled, stainless bull barrel and sports a RRA-2 stage trigger. Atop the gun is a Vortex 6-24x SFP mil/mil scope sitting in Weaver Tactical rings (I think they're Weaver rings; maybe Burris, but they're aluminum and only $35 a pair) on an EGW 20 MOA riser. The only shots through the Creedmoor, so far, have been factory loads. At the time I shot this target, I probably had less than 100 rounds down the tube, and it was a brand new rifle. I shot indoors at 100 yards with Hornady's 120 grain and 140 grain Amax loads. Squares on the target are 1". Keep in mind this is essentially a factory gun with a mass-produced tube shooting factory ammo.

View attachment 13648

Compare that to my 6.5 Grendel that I put together. I bought the 24", stainless, cut-rifled, bull barrel/bolt combo directly from Les Baer for coin north of six hundred Benjamins and mated it to a Mega heavy-weight SBU billet upper with a right side charging handle slot cut. Standard forged lower (Stag, maybe?) with an Armalite 2-stage trigger and ACE skeleton stock with the nice, soft foam cheek pad around the receiver extension tube. Bushnell 4200 Elite 4-16x AO scope set in extra high Warne steel rings. Although this scope doesn't have external turrets or ballistic compensating reticle, it does provide plenty of magnification at 100 to ensure my aim is exactly where I want it to be. This gun shoots factory Hornady 123 grn Amax ammo pretty well, but these shots are reloads, shot at the same indoor range at 100 yds:

View attachment 13649

Great comparative info SS, nice. That is pretty much what I was thinking about. Should be good info for people!