Serious bipods - Harris, Atlas, or...????

[lash]

If you want to buy cheap knock-offs and justify that by trying to preach to us about what is good business, then save your breath. You will obviously take this argument to any level in order to justify your feelings that you got a great product for much less money by being a smart shopper. The truth is that sometimes good quality does cost more, very often even.

if you are happy with your cheap crap, that's fine, but save your justification for your friends. Some of us know better and are in manufacturing and business.

Invent a product or two and put all of your money and time into it to make it a success and then watch others blatantly ignore patent law and make inferior "copies" of your product while your margins go down.

Then come back here and sing the same song and dance you're singing now.

Edit: oh, and I've seen and even tried some of the crap knockoffs of the Harris bipod. I have yet to find one that isn't vastly inferior to the original product so I feel the same way about that.

PSS: I don't own an Atlas, but shoot with many who do. There is a reason they buy the real thing. They need them to work in positions and places other than a square range bench and not fail during critical times.

 

[manscout]

We all use products manufactured in China. This week, I ran over 100 miles, 30 yesterday in the mountains on shoes produced in China. Last week the same. Before and during each step, I new my gear was manufactured in China.

Actually, all my running gear is mfg in China and all premium priced. These include a Garmin Fenix 5x, S-lab shoes, Sat tracker, S-lab vest, HR, even my shorts & shirt... but none of it was ripped off.

Could I find similar trail running shoes for less than the S-Labs $180 price? Sure, but it isn't going to be a clone with fucked up materials. Why? Because Salomon and Garmin are powerful enough to protect their designs. Most gun mfg's can't leverage their buying power the same.

By the way is the 4mm offset of my Salomon's proprietary to Salomon or even the fact that they are shoes? No, they drew inspiration from the Market but package it with other features so it ends up being unique. That's what I am paying for.

So ya, a lot of us buy products mfg'd in China, my son, born to 2 Americans that can trace some of their family back to were the Census only lists Pueblo, speaks/learning Mandarin. I'm not in the dark about the realities of global trade as that's part of what I do.

The push back isn't about stuff made in China... you'd get the same pressure if you bought a cloned Eotech or whatever and promoted your wonderful find here.. your attempt to school us on market realities really only shines a light on your lack of shooting experience and integrity.

You should have just let it go rather than digging in deeper with every post.




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your entire response other than the last 3 lines doesn't even begin to address what we're talking about. and to specifically reply to what you said.... my "attempt to school" you on "market realities" has absolutely zero relevance to my shooting experience or integrity. at all. there's nothing for me to "let go" and i'm not "digging deeper" as you claim. i'm just responding to you specifically trying to ridicule me for no reason. two people who disagree should be able to have a conversation without resorting to juvenile attacks like you chose.

 

[lash]

The classic attack line when all else fails is to accuse the other of being juvenile. Way to contradict your statement while saying it!

 

[700smooth]

^ hahaha

 

[diverdon]

has absolutely zero relevance to my shooting experience or integrity. at all.

Manscout, you put your integrity on display for all to see.

 

[Diesel64]

Manscout is not the issue and his choice to purchase a knockoff because of a lack of funds, personal preference, or any other reason is not for anyone on this site to judge.

While I feel for B&T's lost profits due to other's coping its design and/or producing something of lesser value/quality, a proprietary design and patent are only as good as a company's ability to enforcing the said patent.

If you guys want to boycott Amazon or other websites that sell said knockoff product, do that, but don't chastise the person buying the product.

There is obviously a demand for a lesser quality "atlas like" bipod, as manscout implied B&T may want to research offering a more affordable option so potential consumers don't go astray.

at the end of the day it all comes down to $$ and what someone is willing to spend. In my job we have clients willing to pay us for a premium service, and we have clients who want a similar (in my opinion of lesser quality) who take there buisness elsewhere. It's not the client's decision that hurts my profits, it's the other company offering a product that my client's budget constraints can not ignore.

Garandman, sorry for adding to the derailment of your thread.

 

[garandman]

Guys.....***GUYS*** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Good grief.

I bought an Atlas copy bipod, fully legal, no patent infringement, and sold by a retailer you ALL know about.... I didn't buy crack cocaine, or depleted uranium, here.

As for the "copy" , it seems fully serviceable....EXCEPTfor the cant function, which I am gonna try and tweak with new internal spring mechanisms.

Relax.

No one died or laws were broken in the the purchase of this bipod.

 

[lash]

Lol! We sometimes do get a bit overwrought about things, don't we?

 

[garandman]

Hey.... rude dude.... I saved about $170 and ended up with a fully serviceable bipod... by simply changing one $2.00 part on an Atlas copy.

Thats why.

Now bugger off.

btw.... your mother should wash your foul mouth out with soap.

 

[manscout]

Why? Do your shit that's all good..

But why would someone, from trying to protect others/themselves or just a newbie learning how to think in scope units, short change themselves with trying to fix something just to make it serviceable?

I find FUBAR crap all the time costing many times the $ perceived as saved, when training those that thought they had a value.

It's usually people who have NOT not seen multiple angles that promote short-cuts and newbies who listen... a money losing adventure.

Oh, yes I have many tripod brands... this is Not about anything other than being straight up..

Get what ever the fuck you want, just know your shit when posting. Nobody said you can't buy what you want.... the pushback was the action of promoting crapy stuff, like it truly was a money saving tip.. It is and was not, unless you are a mall ninja. If your on a budget get a Harris, add to it if you want later with PAS and get a ton more flexibility. Hell, some of us prefer a Harris for some things, an Atlas, LRA, EI for another and if your a belly-benrester using semi-free recoil, maybe a Joy Pod etc.

I've spent enough time on this, if you can't get it, well that's your cross...


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you obviously didn't understand a word i wrote. that explains why you say what you say. why not remain calm and have a conversation? you escalated everything. your comments are pretentious, arrogant, and emotional.

 

[Schroedernd]

Have 3 Harris--some with qd and swivel and some plain. Also have an evolution bipod and have used an atlas. I prefer my evolution bipod to any of these.

 

[gpo1956]

Have 3 Harris--some with qd and swivel and some plain. Also have an evolution bipod and have used an atlas. I prefer my evolution bipod to any of these.

I really like the looks of that one. I'd love to look before I buy,though.

 

[garandman]

you obviously didn't understand a word i wrote. that explains why you say what you say. why not remain calm and have a conversation? you escalated everything. your comments are pretentious, arrogant, and emotional.

He's prolly 13 years old, mommy's not monitoring his computer use, and he decided to test drive all the curse words he knew in a single post.




I too don't understand why some ppl gotta turn everything into a fight.

If he doesn't like the concept of an Atlas copy bipod - given that theya re obviously NOT illegal to manufacture or sell - then he is free to NOT buy one.

By changing out ***ONE*** spring (Cost: $2.00) I was able to make this Atlas copy fully functional. And saved some $170.

 

[garandman]

 

[manscout]

Yep, you nailed it. I must admire your an example of elegance and class by how politely you took three separate posts to take personal swings at me and about my Mother.. total crap.

I stand by all I have said, but particularly - " find FUBAR crap all the time costing many times the $ perceived as saved, when training those that thought they had a value." and
"Get what ever the fuck you want, just know your shit when posting. Nobody said you can't buy what you want.... the pushback was the action of promoting crapy stuff, like it truly was a money saving tip.. It is and was not" nothing to do with what is legal.

For wiw the post count and join date are wrong, but there are posts, threads and enough info by me to know... However, you are the first person to personally go after me or my facts (true), so I am honored that it was by someone with such apparent high moral standards - LOL on this one.

edited to try to fix the quotes -

the personal attacks were started by you. all i did was post my thoughts on what the op of this post asked and reply to others who claimed that "counterfeit" atlas bipods are apparently equivalent to stabbing someone in the back.

you say that buying a copy atlas results in a fubar product that ends up costing more to fix than the original. that is laughable. i have seen people run the copies just as hard as the original after adding maybe $10 into them and never having an issue. and yes, i am talking about people using bipods on barricades improperly. so how on earth does $50 even come close to $300? i could buy 6 of them over 6 years and come out even. i've seen many atlas bipods break well inside of that time frame.

you also said i couldn't afford it so i bought a knockoff. that's a huge assumption seeing how i never said anything along those lines. i don't have any form of atlas whether original or copy. i may not be wealthy, and i do strive for value in anything i spend money on. thank you for thinking less of me because of that.

some of the best shooters i know, both from military experience and the elite of competition use harris bipods and don't have to shove anything down anyone's throats about elitism. they know what works and what doesn't. they know you don't have to spend 3x more on a bipod to break a world record or save a squad in the desert. often i see people on this forum who focus more on gear and how many competitions they've paid for rather than skill, kindness, or general good interest in helping people. the guys who are really good don't bother shoving stuff down people's throats, or getting caught up in a gear war. they don't tout themselves as anything special. often you won't even guess they're good at what they do until you see them. they don't have to talk about it, brag about it, or refer to anyone in anyway less than others.

i can see that this is futile. you are who you are, i don't want to change you. i am just pointing out the reason i have been replying. so you can see how someone else views you. perhaps the insight might spark some thought.

 

[garandman]

Bottom line - I got an Atlas copy for $55, added a $2 spring, and got ALL the bipod I'll ever need for a 22 rf trainer rifle. I'll use my factory Atlas for my 6.5CM or 338NM.




If others feel the need / desire to get, a $250 bipod for a 22rf rifle...it is a free country.

 

[manscout]

Manscout I never said you need an Atlas.

Again, maybe it's missed by my crappy ability to type. But the cost of an inferior product in not just the difference between two products.

The cost Delta is in what the resulting lack of performance or (risk there of) ends in a costing.

Last week a guy flew out from GA to meet me in NV. He spent a lot of $ to make it happen, but skimped on a couple of key items. It set him back a bunch of money, 2 days, hotel, food, ammo and travel costs.

Pick your scenario from professional, hunting to matches - the expense is usually not in the accessories.




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i can see that logic. makes sense. when you invest so much into something, it's idiotic to have equipment that will bring it all to a halt and end up costing more money to manage it in the long run. i've experienced that first hand which is why i focus on value. it's not value if it's cheap and doesn't work. that's just cheap. it's value if you get the most for each dollar spent. i argue that you can get more value, not necessarily function, reliability etc, but value from less expensive things and not have to worry about them failing. i.e., a toyota camry will take you coast to coast just like an audi. however, sometimes the better value option is better in the long run. going back to the car thing, the camry will most likely last longer and is no doubt cheaper to repair.

 

[atomic41]

I am kind of shocked that there has not been one person that owns a GG&G bipod on here. A nother great platform.
https://www.gggaz.com/tactical-rifle-bipods.html

I have one, it's a great bipod for the money. Each leg locks into place in the up and down position and there is a lever to unlock. My only gripe is the height adjustment would be better if it had detent positions or notches or something. If you need to adjust height quickly, you can't because it takes a minute to get both legs same height. (or different height if the position requires it) If you don't need to change height quickly, it is great.

I just don't ever post about it because the bipod snobs come out and start shaming everyone that doesn't buy Atlas. LOL

 

[atomic41]

Larue Harris is where it's at. All those other bipods look like they would be slow to deploy. A wrap of gorilla tape quiets the springs and keeps them from snagging on things.

http://www.larue.com/harris-bipod-brm-s-and-lt706-qd-swivel-mount-combo

I bought one of those recently and it rocks.

 

[Kasey]

OP, Harris is the gold standard. The springs are just that, springs and they work as intended. However that was an issue I heard pre-Atlas so got away from them. Everything comes at a cost, including VALUE. Right now used Atlas bipods are selling for 80-95% of full retail price, that is value. Our no BS lifetime warranty is value. The materials used in all our products promotes the value. A suggestion? Want inexpensive serviceable, get a Harris and accept the spring thing. The spring thing is too much to accept, try the Atlas and if you dont like it we'll give your money back.

Manscout -"i get what you're saying. i just find it ridiculous how all these people jump on the "you buy a fake atlas and you're a criminal" bandwagon. copies and knockoffs are different than counterfeit as you said. i've been cursed at before by the owner of bt after he made a video about fake atlas's when i told him if he merely didn't charge so much money, the problem of him "losing business" to the copies wouldn't be so prevalent. then i painted the picture that the majority of people who are looking for a $50 bipod are going to buy a copy and would never consider the overpriced original. he got pissed again and cursed at me in an essay about patent infringement and how he can't lower his prices cause he wouldn't be able to provide for his family. needless to say, i'll never buy an atlas after the owner cursed me out in a youtube video comment section multiple times...."

PLEASE provide link to where I "cursed" you.


garandman - question, what was it about the "copy" that attracted you to buy it? Maybe the black finish? maybe the style or design? Maybe because it looks like the bipod you want but can't afford or no doubt you can afford but can't justify buying. So you dismiss the fact the chicom Chatlas is a counterfeit product and justify it as a "copy" of the Atlas. Please provide USPTO ruling that shows the distinction between the two terms. I get it, "counterfeit" suggests crime, while "copy" suggests licensed, legal..... these fakes are unauthorized counterfeit copies of the Atlas. Nobody has ever been licensed to make the Atlas but B&T here in America, you buy a fake, copy or counterfeit you are condoning theft.

As a side note - It always humors me that there are WWWizards so enlightened about all subject matters manufacturing and what "actual costs" are and always judge said item to be over-priced yet they've made nothing and hired. Others spew "facts" about the legalities of patents and make broad product comparisons "you don't hear Harris crying about patent infringement" well, here's a fact, them Harris patents have expired, thus anyone can legally make copies. Atlas patents are still enforce.

I wonder how such people would react to the suggestion that, if in fact they are employed, they are grossly over-paid. And in addition, that most anyone knows more about their job than they do.


On the suggestion we make a cheaper model to capture the "I want an Atlas but can't justify the price" market..... regardless of what some recall (we'll wait for the link) my thoughts are it muddies the water. So "Atlas light" does not come with lifetime warranty so we can use lower grade aluminum KNOWING they will fail under stress??? Maybe pass on the heat treatable stainless steel materials and use mild steel that will deform and rust? Pass on the Loktite products (chicom buyers seeming glue theirs back together as a expected norm). Pass on the Type III hard coat, just go with anodize. Eliminate the multiple leg positions, Drop the quick change feet. And move assembly to a warehouse and hire non-documented workers to do the work. So now we have a 75.00 Atlas light with no warranty and less durability than a Harris THAT STILL COSTS MORE THAN THE COUNTERFEIT ATLAS!!!!! What was gained there? ZERO. Some people, to include some here, always look at initial cost as THE determining factor to which a product is judged, they do not look long term value.

We are going to have a new bipod model, it is not going to be a "value" model, it is going to be a Atlas we are proud to offer and stand behind. The materials, time and labor will dictate the price.

---

 

[lash]

Great response Kasey.

 

[deersniper]

The Harris copies suck. Hell vice grip copies suck. I'm sure the atlas copies also suck.

Maybe be buy that Atlas "copy" then buy of those "copy" Leulolds floating around. I'm sure it will work as good as the original.

 

[Kasey]

Crickets???

Manscout -"i get what you're saying. i just find it ridiculous how all these people jump on the "you buy a fake atlas and you're a criminal" bandwagon. copies and knockoffs are different than counterfeit as you said. i've been cursed at before by the owner of bt after he made a video about fake atlas's when i told him if he merely didn't charge so much money, the problem of him "losing business" to the copies wouldn't be so prevalent. then i painted the picture that the majority of people who are looking for a $50 bipod are going to buy a copy and would never consider the overpriced original. he got pissed again and cursed at me in an essay about patent infringement and how he can't lower his prices cause he wouldn't be able to provide for his family. needless to say, i'll never buy an atlas after the owner cursed me out in a youtube video comment section multiple times...."

PLEASE provide link to where I "cursed" you.

 

[MilDot1960]

Harris is the number one Bipod around the world and because of that they are the most copied bipods, I have seen other brands that are similar but I wont buy any other but A Harris, Trust is a big thing for me, Harris has served us well over the years and they deserve our support,, And all these other brands are just someone else's view of how they would like a Bipod to be, So they are all knock offs of what Harris came out with in the first place,

 

[Kasey]

MilDot1960, Your point is not lost on me, Harris is the gold standard and your patronage to Harris products is well deserved. One consideration regarding the copies is the fact the patents that protected the Harris design have long expired thus anyone can legally make that design for resale.
Regarding "And all these other brands are just someone else's view of how they would like a Bipod to be, So they are all knock offs of what Harris came out with in the first place," Mr. Harris in no way invented the "bipod" (the photo shows a WWI British Lewis Gun bipod as an example) so the "first place" award goes elsewhere. What Mr. Harris did was invent a reliable inexpensive bipod DESIGN that was easily available to the consumer. The bipod design continues to evolve with new or "novel" concepts being patented.
And as a side note, I actually had a meeting with Mr. Harris at a SHOT show years ago to try and sell him on the idea of the Atlas. I enjoyed meeting him as he reminded me of my Grandfather. On the business side, it was interesting, he told me I wouldn't "make it" with the Accu-Shot monopod and that "the bipod" could not be improved upon (I think that was the year Harris introduced the "Swivel" actually CANT feature). My take away was to not be like Mr. Harris in that, I would not discourage others from chasing their dreams (not to include dreams fulfilled by counterfeiting and infringing others work ) and I would always be open to improving our products.

 

[MilDot1960]

MilDot1960, Your point is not lost on me, Harris is the gold standard and your patronage to Harris products is well deserved. One consideration regarding the copies is the fact the patents that protected the Harris design have long expired thus anyone can legally make that design for resale.
Regarding "And all these other brands are just someone else's view of how they would like a Bipod to be, So they are all knock offs of what Harris came out with in the first place," Mr. Harris in no way invented the "bipod" (the photo shows a WWI British Lewis Gun bipod as an example) so the "first place" award goes elsewhere. What Mr. Harris did was invent a reliable inexpensive bipod DESIGN that was easily available to the consumer. The bipod design continues to evolve with new or "novel" concepts being patented.
And as a side note, I actually had a meeting with Mr. Harris at a SHOT show years ago to try and sell him on the idea of the Atlas. I enjoyed meeting him as he reminded me of my Grandfather. On the business side, it was interesting, he told me I wouldn't "make it" with the Accu-Shot monopod and that "the bipod" could not be improved upon (I think that was the year Harris introduced the "Swivel" actually CANT feature). My take away was to not be like Mr. Harris in that, I would not discourage others from chasing their dreams (not to include dreams fulfilled by counterfeiting and infringing others work ) and I would always be open to improving our products.

I hate Knock offs almost as much as the Knock Off EE, I like all the brands mentioned, Atlas is a think of beauty and so are a few others that are out there, The cost rises quickly when you start to add on whether you want spiked feet or little rubber Boots on them or pod locks etc, Harris has done a fine job over the years but there is room enough for everyone who has made the effort to come up with the goods, Not being American I will support any American company that makes the effort, I won't buy imports even if they are half the price unless they are by Bushnell or Leupold etc because they are an American company,

There are only Two that I would trust and they are Harris and Atlas, when I go to the Gun Store if I see a copy I usually think out loud and say something I ought Not in mixed company and just hope no one heard me, Lol., A couple of things that bug me with Harris is Dirt / Grit getting in those little leg notches and the little push buttons,

John.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Started with Harris a little over 12 yrs now. Got the first gen Atlas as soon as they came out.

Still feel Atlas is the best overall and certainly the best for accuracy when you have time to set up your position.

A few weeks ago I picked up a Badger enhanced Harris from Triad. I do appreciate the ease of deployment of the Harris. For me its a trade off in being stable vs being able to adjust from behind the rifle with my off hand.

If memory serves me correctly the original Atlas had an entirely different means of adjusting the positions as they deployed. Was a pull out and swing down affair vs the push button. I wouldnt mind seeing then brought back for a limited run.