I'm sure you all carry adequate liability insurance. I was wondering in today's litigation happy society, how many have actually been sued? This is a very serious question and will have a tremendous effect on my business model!
Gunsmithing SERIOUS question for the gunsmith
- Thread starter TexasUplander
- Start date
I personally have not. You should get it though. Most of the time even if you cover all the angles, there might be someone that will overload something or blame you for their mistakes. It's bound to happen so get it. Normally they sell you a package.
I appreciate the reply. I will definitely have coverage, but as you know, that doesn't keep you from being sued and doesn't necessarily cover you under any and all circumstances. Just wondering what the percentage was of folks who have actually had to endure litigation.
Hi,
It has nothing to do with embarrassment and everything to do with business etiquette.
Why do you think anyone would tell a complete stranger if they have ever been sued and how was the outcome?
Sincerely,
Theis
It has nothing to do with embarrassment and everything to do with business etiquette.
Why do you think anyone would tell a complete stranger if they have ever been sued and how was the outcome?
Sincerely,
Theis
You don't need to ask gunsmiths -- you wouldn't get a statistically useful set of responses anyway. Ask your insurer instead; they for sure know how often gunsmiths get sued and how those suits tend to resolve.
Wouldn't you think they're trying to sell a product so maybe they'll say what is most convenient to them? I'm not saying this is how it would happen, I'm also asking seriously. I know myself and if I know they're trying to sell me something, deep down I'm always gonna have that concern about their reply to that very question. Just some food for thought!
There's a very easy way to know how much risk an insurance company is assigning to something: the amount of the premiums!
-Stooxie
-Stooxie
Maybe. But insurance agents and brokers are licensed by the state and can lose those licenses if they don't deal honestly with their clients. And besides, what choice does the OP have? The insurers are the only people who have the information he wants. Plus, at some point you do just have to trust the professionals with whom you're doing business.
OP: You should be talking to an insurance broker, not an insurance agent (neither of them will charge you a fee; the difference is that the agent represents an insurance company, while the broker represents you). I'm not a gunsmith, but I have an excellent broker who can certainly advise you and put together a package of E&O, general liability, or whatever -- PM me if you'd like his contact info.
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I'm not asking the outcome of lawsuits, simply wether a suit has ever been cast. Regardless of outcome, a lawsuit could be extremely expensive! I was really just wondering if it is common in the industry.
I should have set up a poll.
I should have set up a poll.
Insurance doesn't pay all your legal fees, anyway. It might protect you from having to make a payout should you be found liable for something.
Someone in my home town here had a copy shop and was so damn proud the he had his "3 layers of protection." An LLC, some other kind of shell layer and something else. In the end one of the employee's loser boyfriend trashed the store and none of it was covered. That was the end of that.
Point is, people can be so concerned about the legal stuff that they develop other blind spots or, worse, forget to make a decent product (I've seen that, too).
-Stooxie
Someone in my home town here had a copy shop and was so damn proud the he had his "3 layers of protection." An LLC, some other kind of shell layer and something else. In the end one of the employee's loser boyfriend trashed the store and none of it was covered. That was the end of that.
Point is, people can be so concerned about the legal stuff that they develop other blind spots or, worse, forget to make a decent product (I've seen that, too).
-Stooxie
+1 Asking legal questions from anyone who isn't an attorney is just dumb when the motivation is more than curiosity.
That's exactly what I did a few weeks after I got my concealed handgun license. The amount of internet/gun club/gun store/CCW instructor bullshit and misinformation that he cleaned up was more than worth the price I paid him.
a good insurance broker will explain what is covered and what is not covered when they bring you a quote. Insurance is not designed to pay for every risk a business has. You can go broke buying insurance but you are crazy to have any type of business without some insurance. You need to decide what risks you are willing to self insure.
I think you need to get your lawyer and your insurance agent together and they can talk through the claim scenarios and how insurance would respond.
I think you need to get your lawyer and your insurance agent together and they can talk through the claim scenarios and how insurance would respond.
Not a lawyer and not a gunsmith, but I do have a fair amount of experience with both insurance and litigation. Here's my 0.02 based solely off my gut instinct and common sense....
Your odds of being sued because of a kaboom, explosion, malfunction, someone getting shot by a gun you built are pretty low. Insurance will typically cover that type of claim and will pay your defense costs.
Your odds of being sued over something dumb are much higher. Delivery guy slips and falls? Someone comes over and gets his hand caught in the lathe? Insurance usually covers these type of dumb accidents too.
Most likely lawsuit is going to be a business dispute. Customer blames you for bad work, won't listen to reason or explanation, sues you just because they are an a-hole. Or they sue you because you goofed and don't have the $$ to make it right. Supplier sues you because you don't pay a bill. Etc, etc. Insurance is not going to cover these risks or defend you.
Summary, buy insurance. Run an effective business and take care of the people you do business with. Litigation should NOT affect your business plan, unless your business plan is to not buy insurance then declare bankruptcy if/when you get sued.
Thanks for the replies, but I'm not here asking for legal advice! Let me explain in a little more detail my situation. I am a farmer/rancher and GUNNUT. I started building my own rifles about 15 years ago and have built countless rifles for friends and family. I am about to lose a source of income and was thinking about doing some supplemental work on the side. Things without taking someone's receiver that is controlled by the atf. Remage, Savage, tikkage prefits, bolt handles, etc. This is for a very modest subsidy and I would definitely be insured, but if the risk of actually being sued is high, it would NOT be worth the risk to me. That's why I was wondering the percentage of people that have actually been sued.......
I feel like I do very high quality work and I am not worried about sending something out that isn't right, but you can't fix stupid and I have no control over the end user!
I feel like I do very high quality work and I am not worried about sending something out that isn't right, but you can't fix stupid and I have no control over the end user!
He said he’s going to do barrel swaps and bolt knobs. Same way you change oil without being an ASC certified mechanic.
Yeah I get that. And I try to do barrel swaps without keeping a receiver long. But Ive still ended up with a receiver for a week and a half.
Yes I savy. And I'm not machining anything. Just basic parts replacement. But customers do the weirdest thing.
If he machines and sells pre-fit barrels, he's not a gunsmith. He's not receiving firearms from anyone. That IS the whole point of prefit barrels.
Your concerns don't apply to him.
You say you're not asking for legal advice
But you are asking for legal advice.
The best person to tell you if a certain business or course of action has a low/med/high risk of liability issues is AN ATTORNEY that specializes in tort litigation.
You can argue all you fucking want, and you're still wrong.
But you are asking for legal advice.
The best person to tell you if a certain business or course of action has a low/med/high risk of liability issues is AN ATTORNEY that specializes in tort litigation.
You can argue all you fucking want, and you're still wrong.
You can quote all you fucking want....and it doesn't change the fact that your reading comprehension sucks.
I'm not asking wether or not to have coverage, that's a no brainer. I'm asking about ODDS. Maybe I should talk to your bookie asshole.
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