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Shoot to Kill: It's Cheaper
- Thread starter Veer_G
- Start date
Just in case anyone needs any reminding... any time you shoot, it's to employ deadly force. If you don't need to employ deadly force... you didn't need to shoot. If you 'shoot to wound' you will, in essence, be stating that you didn't need to use deadly force.
If ever put in a position where you need to use deadly force... there is only one way to use it. It may not work out that way, but never, ever, ever... state in the aftermath (and there will be a very serious aftermath) that you were just shooting to wound them. You are shooting to stop a deadly threat... by using deadly force. The only to stop that threat.
Just something to keep in mind...
Shoot straight... whether two to the chest and one to the head... a couple to the pelvic girdle (lots of arteries there) or my preferred training method of "A Lot to the Everything..." just remember that employing deadly force is never about sending a message. It's about stopping a threat to your life or limb.
Cheers,
Sirhr
If ever put in a position where you need to use deadly force... there is only one way to use it. It may not work out that way, but never, ever, ever... state in the aftermath (and there will be a very serious aftermath) that you were just shooting to wound them. You are shooting to stop a deadly threat... by using deadly force. The only to stop that threat.
Just something to keep in mind...
Shoot straight... whether two to the chest and one to the head... a couple to the pelvic girdle (lots of arteries there) or my preferred training method of "A Lot to the Everything..." just remember that employing deadly force is never about sending a message. It's about stopping a threat to your life or limb.
Cheers,
Sirhr
A cop I'm friends with gave me a great piece of advice- find 2 lawyers in your area that have a 24 hour answering service. Don't say anything, ANYTHING, until you have a lawyer with you. Even if you're in the right you can fuck yourself saying the wrong thing.
It is very good advice. And it is easy to follow. Simply be polite.. say "Sir" a lot (or ma'am). And that you are glad to cooperate, but before making any statements, you want an attorney present. Period. Anything you are asked, simply say "I am glad to answer that with an attorney present, sir." Once you ask for an attorney you can't be questioned. And if they do ask questions... your answers will be, in essence, irrelevant and in-admissible as evidence. If you can make sure that you ask for an attorney either on a body cam or in front of a dash cam... perfect! Always make sure you are in front of a dash cam if possible.
Noone has to be a dick about it. You can comply with physical commands and make sure the officers know you are not a threat to them. You can be polite. Say 'yes, sir' a lot. But once you ask for an attorney... you are entitled to one. Public defender or your own. Then follow their lead. It's how the game is played when it comes to statements.
But I can tell you that even a citizen who is 100 percent in the right in a justified self-defense shooting in the most Law and Order Town run by the biggest Pro second-amendment sheriff self-defense enthusiast... is going to have a dicey few moments with the first-responders. Be cool... pose no threat. Comply comply comply! And firmly but politely ask for an attorney before making any statements.
For years, we taught a class on self-defense to local folks. We weren't talking about how to shoot. We were talking about the ramifications for much of the class. The responsibilities of using deadly force. And how to deal with the aftermath. It is life-changing. Whether LE or Civilian... And certain things that people assume (or see on TV) can make the aftermath way, way harder. Especially since statements made could be fine when it comes to exonerating you from criminal charges... but if you own so much as your own shoes... the or now crippled dirtbag (who was turning his life around and just found Jesus) ... or his relatives if he is deceased... will find an ambulance-chasing succubus of a lawyer who will go after you in civil court. One mis-statement and they will get a jury all antsy in their pantsy and take your house.
Last, there are a few guys here on SH who have been involved in self-defense and LE deadly force incidents... do a search on some of the old posts. There is more than a little good advice given from those who have BTDT.
Cheers,
Sirhr
When I took my CWP class the instructor said there is no such thing as a “warning shot” if you pull your gun out you better empty your magazine into the threat if not you will be the one going to jail. I hope to god I never have to heed his advice.
“Anything you say can and will be used against you.” Nothing in there about anything you say being used to prove you innocent or justified.
The greatest thing about the country is we have a jury system and they are the last word on your guilt or innocence. You only have to convince one you are innocent they have to convince all twelve you are guilty.
Sadly I have never seen a true jury of peers.
Keep in mind, answering stuff like name, date of birth, telephone number and address should still be answered.
Those are not incriminating and not subject to Miranda.
As said, try to keep your wits about and wait for a lawyer, if you are lucky enough to have ones in the area.
Those are not incriminating and not subject to Miranda.
As said, try to keep your wits about and wait for a lawyer, if you are lucky enough to have ones in the area.
One of the best classes I ever took was taught by Massad Ayoob. It taught me a great many things that I will never forget should I ever find myself in that situation
The whole process is exactly as @sirhrmechanic stated
The whole process is exactly as @sirhrmechanic stated
This is absolutely brilliant advice. In today's world you should expect to be guilty until proven innocent. I do NOT approve of this reality, but unfortunately its likely the case.
Nothing i haven't heard before, but still great to here again. I think put in that position many of us will lose our cool and make mistakes. Good to have a reminder to keep the thought fresh.
Are y'all saying the cops don't show up giving you high-fives and hand you a beer?
Clint Smith offers guidance and advice on this subject as part of his handgun tutorial in his older DVD’s. I’ve loaned them out to folks who carry, especially those that “know everything “ 
on the subject.
on the subject.
100% on never firing a "warning shot", as anyone will certainly be held accountable for each and every shot fired. But that philosophy applies to firing enough to stop the threat as well, and not going overboard. Unlike putting penetrating oil on a stuck nut where applying extra doesn't hurt anything, firing extra rounds into an already downed assailant certainly does. If the instructor really did say to empty the magazine, that is very, very poor advice as that would be both a DA's and the now "victim's" lawyer's wet dream when filing their cases against you or anyone else who follow's that course of action.
I had one of my managers when I worked security in Afghanistan proclaim the proper actions on contact included laying down a "dirty-thirty", in other words to get out of the truck, do a mag dump into the vicinity of wherever, get back in and get out of Dodge. He didn't last long after it came to light he was actually serious about that.
If you live in a rural area... burying is the worst thing you can do. Critters will clean up a corpse in about a week... .picked clean, bones scattered and in less than a year, even the bones will be eaten by rodents for the calcium. Burying.... preserves everything. Putting lime on and then burying... you might as well be preserving someone for the archaeologists in 10k years.
Cheers,
Sirhr
“Attempted Comedic Response” Nutin a D-4 or John Deere couldn’t take care of?
Might as well do it proper Chile style... Way out over the ocean naked with no parachute.
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away.... this was called flying lessons. If the sierra bravo can learn to fly before he hits the ground... he goes free!
Not that I'd know anything about that.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Poor bastard never had a chance.
Damn Static Line.
The funny thing is that if that had been a real person, they'd have flipped that Jet Ranger over.... Even back in the Huey days you had to rappell on opposite sides... or risk instability. Blackhawks... were like a dream... overhead beams, no skids... no flip risk. But what would I know...
Good thing that the Scarface Director used a very light straw dummy....
Cheers,
Sirhr
hi my name is mike and i pour 7000 yard slabs of concrete
I just meant S, S, & S as a general way to avoid calling the cops and getting entangled in our "justice" system. Disposal would be a matter of personal choice. Plenty of critters around here would be more than happy for the meal.
There's no such thing as shoot to wound unless you take into account being a bad shot, in that case it would be an excuse for inadequacy.
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