"Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

[rookie7]

I was reading through the thread that became a mess titled "Budget".

One guy (can't remember his handle, and it's really not important) posted that most of the individuals who visit here can't shoot their rifle to its potential anyway. They just want to have something cool.

I have no idea how accurate his opinion is on the shooting skills of the fellas around this cyber campfire.

However, what exactly does it mean to shoot a rifle to it's potential? I pretty much understand that if it is a .25" rifle if a guy isn't a sub-moa shooter that is an example, but there is probably more.

If you can offer up your explanation please do.

Thanks

 

[islandermyk]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

Only restriction I feel right now is the limits/capabilities of my scope so far.... out to 1100 yards it get's a little interesting with seeing so much mirage (don't know if it's supposed to be like that), but I've never put my eyes through really high end glass before ($3K+ glass)... but regardless, I was able to hit 1100 yards pretty comfortably (note: I didn't say easy).

What factor would you say you've put your rifle to its potential anyways?

Please note that my intentions with my comment is not to offend, but to question:
100 yard groupings don't really count for me as seeing a rifles potential... stretch them rifles legs out there. My first time taking out my first bolt rifle. I zeroed it at a 100 yards went straight out to 500 yards, and then to 775 yards (70+ rounds through the barrel). My second outing... I checked zero again at 100 yards, then straight to 700 yards, and then straight to 1100 yards... yep all in one day with less than 25 rounds.


Would this be considered putting your rifle to it potential?

 

[5RWill]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rookie7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was reading through the thread that became a mess titled "Budget".

One guy (can't remember his handle, and it's really not important) posted that most of the individuals who visit here can't shoot their rifle to its potential anyway. They just want to have something cool.

I have no idea how accurate his opinion is on the shooting skills of the fellas around this cyber campfire.

However, what exactly does it mean to shoot a rifle to it's potential? I pretty much understand that if it is a .25" rifle if a guy isn't a sub-moa shooter that is an example, but there is probably more.

If you can offer up your explanation please do.

Thanks</div></div>

I'm not sure about the "cool" factor as most guys just want top notch equipment, something they don't have to second guess. He means in out of the three major parts(rifle/scope, ammo, and shooter) being utilized in putting the bullet where it's intended to go, the shooter is the weakest part of it. It's up the shooter to ensure the accuracy of the equipment assuming it's good equipment. The shooter is the more inconsistent out of the three.

 

[elk addict]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

can't talk much smack about rifles, but i used to be an obsessive compound bow nut... so, metaphorically speaking:

i've seen it with bows. i used to have 4 rigs set up, paper tuned, & sighted to 60 or so. when i started shooting 100 yard groups with them , i started seeing the differences. i was actually a better shooter than most of the bows i owned.

i kept the one that i was able to get 6" groups with & sold the others (2 of them were worth more than twice as much as the one i kept).

 

[sjb269]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

Well, I guess quite simply, If an accomplished shooter/marksman can achieve XYZ with a rifle, and you can not duplicate, your not shooting it to it's potential. Granted, this hypothetical situation would probably be on a known distance range with predictable...errr (unrealistic) conditions.
FYI, I have a lot of fun target shooting my .22 well beyond it's potential/capabilities at 200+ yards... granted, I don't hit the target all the time...but I have fun trying.

 

[bth87]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

I think a lot of what the statement in question is referring to is the fact that many members here rarely shoot their rifles in any situations beyond the square range and often times are shooting at no more than 500m. Additionally many don't shoot all that often. I believe what many refer to as "using the equipment to its potential" is getting off the square range, beating on their rifles, shooting at longer distances and in difficult and harsh conditions. I would be willing to wager there are not many here who can maintain high levels of precision in difficult conditions at extended ranges. There is so much of the "look at my 100yd groups", and very little else. Therefore given the parameters under which many hide members use their equipment, there is really no NEED for much of the equipment purchased because much of it will never see anything but a bench.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm not sure about the "cool" factor as most guys just want top notch equipment, something they don't have to second guess.</div></div>

+1 - I'm not the best shot that (a) I could be or (b) that I intend to be....but I have spent a small fortune on getting the best available kit.

Why?

Not to be cool (I'm too old to be cool

)....just because having rifles/scopes/ammo that I know are fully capable of shooting better than I can means that any "problems" are 99.9% certain to be down to me. It seemed like the best way of eliminating as many excuses/uncertainties or gear problems as I could.

That gives me an incentive and direction to improve myself.

Will I ever push my rifles to the limit of, beyond the envelope of their performance - probably not, but I will certainly have fun trying, work hard and enjoy every little gain in performance from myself along the way.

 

[prekarious]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

People have habits/techniques. Rifles and equipment have specs/tolerances.
One set of these parameters is supposed to be mechanically fixed. The other set contains that imperfection condition of the human factor and changes much more often than it should.

 

[Hunt4life]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

After being reminded of how crazy accurate a Tac Ops rifle is, I would say most of us would struggle to get our rifles to their full potential. I do not think it is an insult at all, there are so many factors, some of it may be skill, some may be optics, some may be reloading, and some maybe smithing.

I stand in amazement of the rifle I had built late last year by Superior Tactical, at a crappy range where the benchs are all tied together and with a target stuck on 2x4's that are sitting in a lose PVC pipe connection I have gotten several .3" groups and one ten round group at around .5-.6"(one ragged hole). I would love to see what its true potential is, but truth is, I bought it to help me get closer to cleaning a dot drill, which it has done.

That said, I think shooting is alot like golf where even the best shooters struggle some days, while making it look easy on others.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

I think the subject has merit. Forget about "the rifle's potential". The potential is the combined output of the entire system. No rifle can be the only crucial and determinant part of the system. Without the other parts, it's just an inert implement.

Of the three system components, the shooter may or may not be the least effective part, but they will usually be the least consistent part. When the shooter does their best, whatever that is, on a consistent basis; then comes the time to evaluate whether the other parts need refinement.

Not before. Otherwise, we're just flappin' our arms; flight can only be a fantasy under such constraints.

Most often, the more effective refinements will be steps that reconfigure the rifle to blend in more effectively with the shooter; usually ergo or optical in nature.

I think far too much emphasis is given toward optimizing ammunition. As long as the load is compatible with barrel harmonics, and is built with due diligence toward the most basic consistency issues, it is good enough.

Perfection needs badly not to be the enemy of good where ammunition production is concerned. Perfection consumes a shooter's resources to whatever degree the shooter chooses to expend them, but the many small uncontrollable detriments that nature throws at us can most often quickly and effortlessly negate that expenditure.

Given the choice, those resources are most often better expended in the process of skills refinement. That's where the bang lurke when we're spending that buck. That's where the most improvement can usually be found, and where it's usually most needed.

Even if just for this one reason; a serious shooter needs a reliable and relatively accurate .22.

Greg

 

[diego-ted]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

^ well put Greg!

 

[JB02]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

IMO, I interpret shooting a tactical rifle to its full potential means rigorously testing its performance under a variety of conditions:

- Grouping at 100 yds
- Tightening groups to smallest possible or hitting target at the max distance possible at your range (I aim for the small steel plinging targets at mine and then try to hit them again while they are still swinging)
- Hitting target from a variety of (uncomfortable) shooting positions
- Hitting target in adverse weather (frigid cold, rain, high wind)
- Being able to hit targets despite needing to move and transport rifle in hilly, dusty terrain

How does your rifle work in these conditions? There is a great thread, courtesy of lowlight, that has an entertaining video of shooters attempting to shoot a rifle to its potential:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1824082&page=1

Because I live in CT, I haven't really had the ability to test my rifles' potential under the last criteria (something I hope to do in the coming months). Still, I'm confident that if I have a rifle that performs under these conditions, and I notice improvement in my ability as I work through these tests, I can consider myself shooting the rifle to it's fullest potential.

Obviously, if your game is benchrest or varmit hunting, your criteria will be different.

 

[sjb269]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

LT JGB...
I like your thinking.
I should ask myself, When was the last time I waited for a really windy day to go shooting...on purpose? it's the best was to learn how to read conditions. When was the last time I voluntarily took the last few uncovered lanes at the range to see what my capabilities are with the sun beating down on me and sweat dripping down my face. When was the last time I made a choice to shoot in the rain? I have different capabilities in different conditions. I know MY accuracy drops when I have ants crawling up my leg!
personally, shooting 100 yd groups in the shade with an ice cold diet coke gets old fast. Also, I don't necessarily strive to hit exactly 1000 yards with my rifle. I'd much rather say I can hit 983 yds, 1015 yds, 727yds. you get the point.

 

[badhabit_wb]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

I agree with Greg an accurate 22 helps a lot. That said practice,practice, practice. It still helps to have really good equipment that you can depend on. I have a range that's a little over 900yds but it takes 45 minutes on my honda rincon to get to it. I strap my kit on the rear rack and ride. It takes solid equipment to handle that. I can thank Jered at APA for that! And Scmidt Bender for the optics. Never had an issue with either. I know if I don't hit the head shots at 600yds it's me.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

I think the original quote was intended to imply that most shooters can't shoot the difference between a highly accurized custom gun and an out of the box rifle.

When it comes to off hand and other types of positional shooting, it is pretty much a given (to me) that the shooter is the weak point and dominates the determination of how precise a shot will be.

Now if you look at some of the more stable positions, such as prone or from the bench, yes, many shooters could shoot the difference between an accurized rifle and a factory rifle. Now if you take it to the next level and talk about the difference between a quarter minute rifle and a half minute rifle, the point is valid. I think very few people can shoot well enough at a hundred yards to tell the difference.

I compare this to a thread on 1911's I posted to a while ago. While a good custom 1911 may be very accurate in a Ransom rest (which takes out all human variables), very few people could shoot the difference. Top Bullseye competitors need those extra inches of accuracy as they are shooting untimed at very small targets for score. IDPA and IPSC competitors, who are shooting first and foremost for speed, likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a pistol that shoots 3" at 50 yards and one that shoots 1.5" at 100 yards, for instance.

This is the concept of "usable" accuracy. LL has posted time and time again that a 1 MOA rifle could win any tactical comp out there and once you factor in stress, environmental variables, unknown distances, and the various other factors that influence the shot, while a very accurate rifle is nice to have, the shooter's (or team's) ability to to master those other variables dictate a hit or a miss. The inherent accuracy of the rifle ends up very low on that list.

If you think about it, 1 MOA without any sighters in an unfamiliar environment (i.e., not your home range or a pasture where you know the wind patterns well) at unknown distances is extremely difficult, even with a very accurate rifle.

Hell, I missed a small hog at 100 yards the other day and I am still trying to figure out how... and I can post quarter minute groups on the Internet no problem. That was a 3 MOA shot easily. Still wondering how the hell I missed it... no signs of blood.

The point is... very few people can shoot the accuracy difference between two decent rifles and even when they can, many conditions render that difference in accuracy meaningless.

And yet... I still want the most accurate stick possible because I do enjoy shooting for score and making ridiculous shots. It is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And buy once, cry once. And whatever other cliche that is popular on this site.

 

[rookie7]

Re: "Shooting a rifle to its potential" ...

I appreciate everyone's input. I had a feeling I had an idea what the gent meant when he said most folks won't shoot a rifle to it's potential.

I prefer to have the most accurate weapon I can afford or choose to afford - just like many of you.

I bet most of us aren't going to be carrying our rifle in harsh environmental conditions like the military. Although, the swamps of Georgia can prove brutal at times. We've got some spiders down here that weave webs that look like they were made out of 20lb test line. They're as big as your hand - black, yellow, and white (not garden spiders) - and will make you scream like a little girl when they creep up on your shoulder.

Having a good rifle at that point is imperative b/c you will surely drop it in the swamp!

On a serious note, I bet our western brothers who hunt can encounter some pretty rough conditions while hunting and camping.

BTW, I do remember an example of what the guy was talking about. A few years ago I knew an 18 yr old kid who owned an LWRC ar-15, a Colt ar-15, and a Reaper .308. Now, he never will use any of those weapons to their potential other than trying to impress his friends and the young girls.

Regardless, thanks for the input and God's speed.