Range Report Short barrel 6.5Creed?

Skunk

Skunk

Amongst the Enemy
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Minuteman
Nov 24, 2003
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Lost in the Sauce
#1
All,

I've been shooting 16-20" .308's forever. I recently picked up an AXMC that came with a 26" 6.5Creed barrel. Needless to say, it's a long rifle and I'm hanging a suppressor on the end as well. So, I'm wondering about cutting this thing back to somewhere around 16-20" but am completely unfamiliar with this cartridge. Will I be chopping the legs out from under this by going that short? 308's do well short, does the 6.5Creed?

 
#3
I know there are guys out there shooting short 6.5's. I've seen mention of guns that are 16.5" here on the Hide. Hopefully they'll see this and respond. I just want to know how short can the barrel be and still push a good bullet to a speed that matters. Will I still be better off than shooting a 308?
 
#6
In my opinion, giving up 100 fps by going 20" is not an issue. I just picked up a Tikka TSR-1 in .260 Rem with a 20" barrel and it is a shooter. Since I can load my 26" barreled .260 to 2850 fps without issue using 136 g Scenars, The 2750 that I can get with the 20" barrel will do just fine. Consistency is much more important to me than sheer speed. Plus, like you, I appreciate that the 20" barrel provides a bit shorter platform for my 9" can.

Oh yeah, it looks great too!
 
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#7
I have a 16.5" 6.5 creedmoor barrel on an AIAX. I shoot the 123 scenars at 2800. And the load isn't near max. I also have a 24" 308 barrel shooting the 168's, and ballistics are identical out to 1000 yds.
 
#8
18" 6.5CM here

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6M17GhdUWwY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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#12
I can help with this topic with first hand experience. I have a 17", 22" and a 26" .260 that I shoot the same load in because it does well in all of them even though the SD sucks in the 26" barrel. My 17" barrel is running 2480 but it has less than 100 rounds on it so it may pick up a little speed. The 22" barrel is right around 2725 and the 26" is just a hair over 2800. That's 42 grains of h4350 behind a 142 SMK. I have no doubt I could pick up speed in the short barrel by switching powders but it shoots good and my range is only 700 yards so there really isn't any point in pushing it harder.
 
#14
Bradu said:
I can help with this topic with first hand experience. I have a 17", 22" and a 26" .260 that I shoot the same load in because it does well in all of them even though the SD sucks in the 26" barrel. My 17" barrel is running 2480 but it has less than 100 rounds on it so it may pick up a little speed. The 22" barrel is right around 2725 and the 26" is just a hair over 2800. That's 42 grains of h4350 behind a 142 SMK. I have no doubt I could pick up speed in the short barrel by switching powders but it shoots good and my range is only 700 yards so there really isn't any point in pushing it harder.
Click to expand...

Ya know, I recently 'discovered' how well the 142 does out of a short barrel. I e always used other 6.5s in my .260s, but then picked up this 20" Tikka. Shot some FGMM with the 142s at a relatively slow 2575 fps and doped them out to 1000. Then shot a local match with the rest of them and was very pleased with the performance of this bullet out of a short barrel. I am now working up a load for this rifle using the 142s (or will be once recovery from freakin' Irma is done with).
 
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#15
Pick up my TL3 w/ 18" 8-twist 6.5 on Monday. Going to go zero and start getting data to 1,000 on Friday. I'll try the 142's. I only bought 140ELD's. Ive been wanting to try 130 PRIME also.

Ill report back how it does to 1k.
 
#16
Bradu said:
The 22" barrel is right around 2725
Click to expand...

I'm trying to wrap my head around how a 22" .260 with 142s is at the exact same velocity my .308 is at with a 22" barrel and 175s. I thought the whole advantage of the .260/6.5s over .308 was the additional speed. Is the only advantage a better BC? Is that how it dodges wind better than a .308?

I've been wanting to move from .308 to 6.5x47 for a while now, but I don't know jack about the 260. Are you just shooting really mild loads?
 
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#17
42 grains of h4350. They are pretty mild. I figure no point in running shit hot, if I want faster I will get a bigger caliber. Im thinking it shot good in the upper 43 grains and I didn't feel like losing primer pockets that quick.
 
#18
I had a 26" 1:8 Criterion 6.5 Creedmoor; I got 2820 with a 140gr HPBT over 42.5gr H4350 and 2857fps with 140gr Amax Match factory ammo (barrel had about 950rds through it).

Same barrel cut back to 18" got 2640fps with the 140gr HPBT load and 2662fps with the 140gr Amax Match factory load.
 
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#19
42 grains of h4350. They are pretty mild. I figure no point in running shit hot, if I want faster I will get a bigger caliber. Im thinking it shot good in the upper 43 grains and I didn't feel like losing primer pockets that quick.
 
#20
I've been kicking around the idea of a 18-20" barrel for my AX in 6.5CM to go with the 26" I already have. Frank isn't your average shooter, but that video is encouraging.
 
#21
Might be a little late to this discussion.......so for what it is worth....... I have a 6.5 CM RPR with a 26" LRI barrel.......very pleased with the accuracy.......Has consistently shot sub 1/2" groups with hornady factory 140 ELD-M's. For reloads I have found that 41.5 of H4350 with either the 140 or 130 ELD-M will also produce consistent sub 1/2" in groups. I wanted a short barreled rifle and purchased a Tikka Stainless CTR 20" in 6.5 CM. I was pleasantly surprised when this rifle produced 1/2" groups with the Factory Hornady 140 ELD_M ammo as well. I did not expect there to be such a velocity loss with the 20" barrel.

i don't know how to attach images, but here are some numbers from my v3 magspeed to compare.
Tikka.....factory Hornady 140ELD-M... shooting suppressed 10 shots......2591 mv
RPR ....factory Hornady (same lot of ammo) 140ELD-M....no suppressor or brake.......10 shots......2842 mv
Tikka....reloading 41.5 H4350 with 130 ELD-M with suppressor......sup 1/2" group......2535 MV with SD 6.2 ES 15
RPR.... reloading 41.5 H4350 with 130 ELD-M....no suppressor or brake......sub 1/2" with MV of 2797 SD 11.1 ES 22

I generally do not push what the reloading manuals say is maximum powder charge, so my 41.5 of H4350 only produce 2740-2750 mv from my RPR. I recently ran a test using Lapua brass and loaded up 41.7, 41.9 and 42.1 of h4350 with 140 ELD-M but did not see accuracy that my 41.5 load produces. The 42.1 of h4350 had MV of 2787 with SD of 5.3 and ES 13

Just a quick mention: I did not see any pressure signs at 42.1 (.6 past what manual says is max)

 
#22
With factory Prime Ammo I am getting 2800fps 21766829_10155732926197953_7956311413377619047_n.jpg?oh=98d8e3e30c195e555d377c20b3344167&oe=5A...jpg

 
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#23
i run a 20" 6.5 x47, have done for going on 10 yrs
Creed will work fine in a 20, better than any 308 period
Short barrels dont require any special voodoo, however they can perform exceptionally with right bullet/powder combo
Now lapua does creed brass with small primer, i may swap over after this barrel
Small primer imho opinion does make a difference
You really want to that 20" to perform like a 24"
lose the 140, sure lots of folk shoot them but your limited by barrel lenght. Which hinders fps, not as much as you would think but it does
Swap to 130gr bullet, several out there, sierra gets the nod from me at this time
lose the h4350, run RE17, you will pickup 100fps or so over h4350 with same load
load so boat tail junction is at case neck junction, barrel of course should be chambered with this in mind
Ideally you build rig from get go to run a short barrel, thou having chambered redone not a big deal
My lil 20" x47 shoots flatter than the 26" 308 running 155 @2950fps it replaced
20" creed running 130 over Re17 will put a big grin on you for sure







 
#24
Im running a 2012 AX with a used barrel i bought here , 16.5 Benchmade chambered by TS Customs . I wasn't expecting miracle ballistics but im more than happy. 123 eldm 2000mr powder and Br2 primers in the 2900s Suppressed. Hornday brass isnt lasting but three firings due to the load but there are no ejector marks no swipes no primer seapage no sticky bolt... load at your own risk. 1100 yards im dialing 9 mils of elevation at sea level and its plenty consistent. I will likely stay at 16.5" when i burn up this barrel. Dont be scared to go with a short barrel 6.5 creed its better than a 20" 308 in my opinion. Screenshot_20171107-144016.pngScreenshot_20171107-144558.png
 
#25
Ive been using Alliant Power Pro 2000mr in short barreled 308s , 260 rem and now 6.5 CM and its good stuff . Heres my same load that i shoot (123 eldm 2000mr Br2 ) Screenshot_20171107-145737.png but this was out of an AW 20" 6.5 cm chambered by GAP reaching 3k fps no pressure signs . Load at your own risk **
 
#26
You two have totally peaked my interest. I recently picked up a 20" .260 and haven't settled on "the" load yet. I'm much more of a load 'em and shoot 'em kinda guy and not so much of a perfect load kinda guy, but I've been mostly loading for longer barrels and powder choices can be different for shorter barrels. I've never tried 2000mr, but now want to do so for this rifle.
 
#27
2000mr is like Reloader 17 but its a fine ball powder instead of extruded. In my old 21" 260 rem Bartlein barrel i had the 142 smk flying 2860s suppressed no pressures with 2000mr in lapua brass .
 
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#29
devldogs55 said:
I'm trying to wrap my head around how a 22" .260 with 142s is at the exact same velocity my .308 is at with a 22" barrel and 175s. I thought the whole advantage of the .260/6.5s over .308 was the additional speed. Is the only advantage a better BC? Is that how it dodges wind better than a .308?

I've been wanting to move from .308 to 6.5x47 for a while now, but I don't know jack about the 260. Are you just shooting really mild loads?
Click to expand...


Were talking about pretty similar velocities here, and BC will always trump speed. Regarding the 142(old bullet)...its got a better BC than pretty much any iacketed .30 bullet until around the newer 200 gr 30’s. With 308 sized cases, the 6.5 bore size just wins. Plug a few combos into the ballistic solver, and see for yourself.

6.5x47, .260, creedmoor, all pretty much same same.

 
#30
Yep, just run the numbers. For equivalent BC, the 6.5 will run much faster muzzle velocity. For equivalent weights, the 6.5 will be slower but the BC will be significantly better and make up for any velocity difference.

For example (all 20-24ish inch barrel velocities), 155gr .30 cal TMK bc .519 @ 2800 fps vs. a 147 ELDM bc .697 @ 2650fps (think I'm kind of low-balling the 6.5 here). The 6.5 ends up being slightly flatter to 1000, less wind, and stays supersonic longer, all else being equal.

Now if you use a 123gr ELD in the 6.5 with a BC of .51, you can shoot it faster than the 155's in a .308, basically the same BC, more velocity, 6.5 wins (except energy). Now if you go for pure energy, the .308 may have an advantage at closer ranges, but at some point down range the 6.5's higher BC's will overtake it.
 
#31
I have an 18" 6.5x47 on the way. Plan is 2800fps with 123s, very much superseding the 20" 308 it replaced as far as drop/wind is concerned. As everyone's responses have indicated, i wouldn't hesitate.

For those of you using 2000-MR How is the velocity variance in relation to temperature?

Joe has this video with his 16.5" 6.5CM pushing 123s at 2800-2850. Also has a 21" 6.5 SAUM pushing 140s at 3050.
 
#32
5RWill said:
I have an 18" 6.5x47 on the way. Plan is 2800fps with 123s, very much superseding the 20" 308 it replaced as far as drop/wind is concerned. As everyone's responses have indicated, i wouldn't hesitate.

For those of you using 2000-MR How is the velocity variance in relation to temperature?

Joe has this video with his 16.5" 6.5CM pushing 123s at 2800-2850. Also has a 21" 6.5 SAUM pushing 140s at 3050.
Click to expand...

I'm researching this right now too since I just picked up a pound of 2000MR for my 20" .260 and 142/143 class bullets. With 4350, I have to push them pretty hard to get 2600 fps and I'd like 2700 or so. So far while searching around for info and data points, I found this thread that focuses on .308 heavies, but stretched over 2-1/2 years.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...lliant-2000-mr

No solid data on temp sensitivity, but results seem to be somewhere between 1/2 to 3/4 fps per degree F. That's not terrible unless you are somewhere like the desert where you can have 50 degree temp swings in half a day.

Now I just have to do a bit of load development to see for myself.
 
#33
81sfo said:
2000mr is like Reloader 17 but its a fine ball powder instead of extruded. In my old 21" 260 rem Bartlein barrel i had the 142 smk flying 2860s suppressed no pressures with 2000mr in lapua brass .
Click to expand...

What load were you using?

Alliant, in all of their wisdom, advertises this as a great powder for use with heavy bullets in the medium cartridge, but only lists load data for 90g and 120g varmint bullets in .260. Really?
 
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#34
lash said:
What load were you using?

Alliant, in all of their wisdom, advertises this as a great powder for use with heavy bullets in the medium cartridge, but only lists load data for 90g and 120g varmint bullets in .260. Really?
Click to expand...

I used 142smk 43gn 2000mr in new Winchester 308 brass resized to 260 and also 260 Lapua brass .it may not be safe out of your rifle start alot lower charges.
 
#35
81sfo said:
I used 142smk 43gn 2000mr in new Winchester 308 brass resized to 260 and also 260 Lapua brass .it may not be safe out of your rifle start alot lower charges.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That will work with what I'd planned. I figured to start my pressure loads at 39.0 and go to 42.5, based on just what I could find reading what little is out there. I'll add two more charges to bring it to 43.0 and see what my rifle likes.
 
#36
lash said:
In my opinion, giving up 100 fps by going 20" is not an issue. I just picked up a Tikka TSR-1 in .260 Rem with a 20" barrel and it is a shooter. Since I can load my 26" barreled .260 to 2850 fps without issue using 136 g Scenars, The 2750 that I can get with the 20" barrel will do just fine. Consistency is much more important to me than sheer speed. Plus, like you, I appreciate that the 20" barrel provides a bit shorter platform for my 9" can.

Oh yeah, it looks great too!
Click to expand...
You mean it looks like This? Getting 2738 with a 143 ELDX:). I've had zero issues getting hits to 1300.
15fa0f24ff33eb0432a646943c7b6a20.jpg


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 
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#38
photo80654.jpg
HoustonB77 said:
You mean it looks like This? Getting 2738 with a 143 ELDX:). I've had zero issues getting hits to 1300. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com\/20171120\/15fa0f24ff33eb0432a646943c7b6a20.jpg"}[/IMG2]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using
Click to expand...

Sorta, kinda, but with just a couple differences I made.
 

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#39
I'm running a 16" Faxon barrel on an AR10 build. My old school Chrony is saying 2650 with Factory 143 ELDX and then ran it over a Gen 1 magnetto speed which said 2450fps. 2450 does not jive with my confirmed dope out to 600 on steel (based on published BC from Hornady). I'm dialing 15 MOA to get there consistently, which is more like 2575 fps based on JBM. Either way I'm happy, beats my elevation for my old 20" 308 bolt gun and significantly better wind (almost 50% better). Absolutely loving the round. I'm not a precision/bench rest guy, use primarily for hunting, but am getting 5" groups at 600 driving a gas gun that I'm not used to (yet). I run a 30P-1 on it.
 
#43
I run a 6.5 cm in a bighorn tl3 with a 24 “ spencer barrel
It’s burning 42.8 grains of 4350
Cci br2 match primers
Norma brass
Hornady eld m
Mv 2821 da 7678
Temp 91 hr 33 percent
I run a at10 in 6.5 cm with a 18” proof carbon barrel. 143 eldx gave mv 2515
I run the 130 Bergers to make up difference in loss velocity. I can push them to 2645
 
#44
18 inch 6.5 cm Msr-10 (newer) with Omega
Hdy factory 120 ELD match = 2730 fps
Hdy factory 140 ELD match = 2650 fps

These were higher velocities than expected, but after cleaning rifle several times am guessing new Savage barrel is a little tight. Got better accuracy after removing the factory brake/compensator.
 
#47
I know this thread is a bit old, but I found it useful so I'll add my 2 bits. I was concerned that my velocities were too low, but after seeing these posts I think I'm right where I need to be given the short barrel.

I have a 6.5 CM in an AR-10 platform, 18" barrel, shooting with Omega can.

Loading Hornady brass, H4350, ELD-Match 140gr, CCI 200 primers.

My charge weights and velocities on a recent trip to the range were as follows:

40.0 2510
40.2 2496
40.4 2510
40.6 2554
40.8 2554
41.0 2554
41.2 2574
41.4 2564
41.6 2594
41.8 2599
42.0 2614
42.2 2609
42.4 2666
42.6 2650
42.8 2704

Found good nodes around 2554fps and 2600fps. Feeding from mag so can't seat to lands, however tweaking the seating depth led to a nice group at 2554fps. Going to try 2600fps and see if it yields equally good results.

Hope that's helpful to someone!
 

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#48
I was interested in a shorty for hunting so I picked up a Remington 783 16.5” I’ve been enjoying shooting off hand so I’m running an eotech XPS2 and was able to stack rounds on top of each other on a steel plate at 100 and hit 500 off a tripod pretty easily, so far velocity started at an average of 2515fps with 140s from Hornady American Gunner factory ammo for break in (30 rounds 10 cleanings) next shoot I got an average of 2211 from a starting load of 32gr of varget SD 5 ES 13, max load per Lyman manual of 34gr (VERY conservative IMO) gave me an average of 2316 with 140 BTHP “match” hornady bullets. 120ELD Match Hornady factory average was 2673 with the last round hitting 2780! I want to try Nosler E-tips for hunting...

Any thoughts on 34gr max load per the manual? Online hodgdon website max with 140gr AMAX using varget was 35.8...?

I’m going to try 35.5-35.8gr of varget with 140ELDM at 2.820” and report back later. Cheers.
 
#49
No thoughts on the 34gr max load, but you should be seeing higher numbers than 2316fps, and 2211fps just seems crazy slow.. My Rock Creek 18" has sped up 100fps after about 200 rounds, and I'm sitting at about 2600fps with Hornady 147gr ELD's. With a 140gr I would expect you should be seeing a minimum of 2500fps even with the 16" barrel.
 
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#50
I have a Ruger Am. Predator 260
22" factory barrel with 130gr prime = 2812
cut this barrel to 16.5 with the 130gr prime = 2611
Running it in a MDT chassis suppressed - very handy and fun. Enjoy
 
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