Advanced Marksmanship Shot group at 600 yds

[GearboxRacquetball]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Thanks for sharing the vids! Must be fun shootin' with your boys, I'm sure they'll be hooked on high-power now ~ isn't it great?

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

It is a lot of fun to shoot with them. One of the boys are up to go shooting. Kinda gives you someone to shoot with. The 14 year old is a dam good shot. The 8 year old is getting there. Working on a place to shoot at 1000 yards. Shoot a lot at 600 and 800. Would like to stretch the legs out some. They are good kids.

 

[Winfree]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Dar if you are shooting a 5" group at 1000y you are doing great. I would say over half of these guys on here couldn't hold a MOA at that distance. Great job! As I understand it you are shooting F class and not a bench rest weapon. I shoot at 1000y once or twice a month and you are right on in saying that you would win 95% of the matches. Hats off to you and your son for some good shooting.
Also thanks for taking the time to raise your son up by being a Dad. We need more Dad's that take the time to be with the kids. I take my daugther all the time to the range. Last match with a 22 she shot a 97 out of a 100 score. I think I was move happy with her shooting than mine.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I don't think anybody could hold a 5" group at 1000 yards and call the shots. Maybe by chance if all the conditions were great. The last time Me and my son shot 1000 the winds was pretty bad. I've shot 8 matches this year. If someone could hold a solid moa at any distance they would win. I haven't seen someone shoot a perfect score yet. My son shot a 199 15X and got the Junior Natinal Title in F-Class open shooting off of bipods and a rear sandbag. This weekend He is going for the F-Class TR Junior National Title in a 308. He has beat it before but didn't know he was shooting at that level. He normally just shoot for fun. If he shoots better than 183 3X he will get it.

Alot of guys that shoot the F-Class with us. They shoot with fancy rest and custom bags. I keep telling my son, If you hold the shot. The shot will go where you aim no matter what you use.
He really hasn't shot to much at 100 yards. My kids don't really think much about shooting at 800 yards. We shoot there about 4 to 5 times a week.

Trigger time is the biggest thing. Keeping it fun for them and you. We have a LV steel target with a 4" flipper by the head piece. We will play a game. He shoots at the flipper and then I will shoot the flipper. Talk a little samck back and forth. This keeps him going. It is something to make it more interesting in shooting.

It is also good to see other parents taking the time to teach their kids the sport of shooting. The kids if you start them right have no boundaries on distance. They don't think anything about 800 yards, just dial the scope.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Just got done shooting the match today. My son set the National record in 308 F-Class Target Rifle. He shot a 192-1X. The record was 183-3X in the Junior Class. He used my 5r milspec factory Remmington. Shooting 155 lapuas. Not bad for a 14 year old. Now he has set 2 Junior National Records 1 in the Open Class and 1 in the Targert rifle.

I'am going to teach him over the winter to shoot sling with iron sights. Pretty happy with his success. Thanks to the Hide training.

 

[tacticalrifleman]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Congrats sir to you and your son. I myself can't wait till my son is old enough to start going to the range. A significant accomplishment for your son, and testament to the hard work and time he has spent on it. Good job.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Thanks, He is going to try to get the sling down for next year. See if he can get 3 records at one time. Pretty proud of him. He does listen and apply what he hears.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Well got an email tonight about his shooting. They didn't know for sure but the matches maybe an Approved Match instead of Registered Match. If so, his scores will not count for the National Records. No big deal. Just need to find a match to shoot.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Does anyone know of any F-Class 600yards matches left this year within an 10 hr drive of Omaha Nebraska?

 

[Cigarcop]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Congrats to you and your son, theres one this coming weekend over here in Pa but more than your intended drive!

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

A little to far.Thanks Can go south through texas,CO,OK,KS,MO,ill.

 

[Bill the Lurker]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Rich,, give my best to your son, he's doing great!!!!!

I think it is because of the Jacob Bynum toe slippers he wears...

Bill

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

It could be his lucky toe shoes. I will tell him you said hi. Thanks Rich

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Even though the match was not approved. Still had a great time shooting at the matches. It is a little late in the year for F-Class matches. Will shoot the winter and practice more. My son is happy either way. He just likes to shoot.

Should be able to post some 1000 yard videos when the corn gets out. We will shoot at the same targets we always shoot at. Kinda like shooting the steel targets.

 

[binski]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Rich,OMG,are you bringing the youngest boy out to whup up on us too!I shot alongside your boy on Sun. so I didn"t get to watch him shoot,but I heard his scorekeeper saying 10,10,10 etc,lol. binski

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Next year I'am going to bring him. The oldest boy may try match rifle with sling. Pretty soon I will just the old man who loads their bullets and carry their guns. LOL

 

[binski]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Thats what I was doing for my two grandsons,after they took to putting the smack down on me.Then they got a wiff of perfume and havn't shot since!I hope they come back to thier senses soon.You better make sure you keep that cooler full!!! binski

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

You get those bullets loaded yet?

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

So far to young to care about that yet. It will come. Try to keep him focus on shooting but the perfume is sure hard to ignore at that age.

 

[binski]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Hell,its hard to ignore at my age!I loaded up some rds today,but could't get to the range yet.Still trying to keep the rifle from bouncing.Maybe more work with the 40X at 100. binski

 

[soteaser]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Just starting out but my first ever 600 yd match three weeks ago i shot about a 4" group (3/4 moa-191 w/7x)using 70gr bergers with 25gr of varget from my ar with 18" barrel. I am very happy and hooked on lr shooting. Any sugestions for my build starting with fn spr actoin?
Thanks and good shooting to you all
Terry

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Start with the bullet you want to shoot. If you are going for an high BC bullet to buck the wind. I would chose a faster twist. You can call most barrel makers and get some suggestions on the twist rate you will need. Then look for a quaility trigger that you will be able to adjust. The is the order to go in. Bullet,barrel, trigger, firing pin,recoil lug,stock.

Don't forget to build a rifle that if you decide to shoot other events. You will be able to use the same rifle. I build all my rifles with the same basic parts. This insures me if I pick up another rifle it is setup the same way.

In the gunsmithing area of the forums. Post some ideas of the type of shooting and what kind of build you want. The members on the Hide is very helpful and knowledagable. They will give you great advice.

The biggest thing is ( BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE) makes the most sense. Buy Quiality stuff that when you shoot the barrel out. All you have to do is twist another barrel on.

Good Shooting, Rich

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Soteaser, that is good shooting with a 223. Try to build a gun to you will also enjoy shooting at farther distances. Once you get comfortable at 600 yards. You will always want to go farther. Make sure the gun will have the capabilities of that range.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

We shot at 1100 yards today. I will post a video of this later this week. Same place just 300 yds past the 800 yd mark. Pretty neat.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I will have to shoot the video over again. I shot the video in to high of resolution. Camera was on the wrong setting. I will try to do this weekend. I shot 10 times and hit 9 times. My son shot 11 times and hit 7 times. We shot a total of 20 rounds a piece. We were using the 260s. It will be the same we will shoot this weekend.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Well figured it out how to down size the video file. Here it is shooting at 1100 yards. This is the same targets but 300 yards past the 800 yard mark.


<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9dce3TpxQT0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9dce3TpxQT0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

The next time we shoot. We need to wait a little longer before making noise by the camera and shoot at different time spans. This way you can hear the target hits better. Not the best but I will work on this error.

We notice when we would say hit, you could hear the hit. But a lot the times You could see the hit and the sound would much later to get back to where you was shooting from. This is a lesson learn from the video stand point. Also will try to get better video.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Shot a 1100 yards today. Video did not turn out worth a damm. So I did not post it. I will post my son shooting at 600 yards later tonight.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

here is my son shooting at 600 yards. I had him shoot as fast and accurate with 18 rounds. He shot 18 rounds with 1 miss under 1 minute and 12 seconds with a clip change. Shooting the same LV steel target.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ytRJmHb5S5E"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ytRJmHb5S5E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[TBass]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Dar - You better have those kids reloading... it looks like they love to burn through the ammo

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I already have him help me load. I started that about 6 months ago. He has the hang of it now. He likes to burn the ammo up.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Cant seem to get the camera to hear the sound of the steel with the wind at 1100 yards and the video sucks. Any suggestions on this problem? I thought about placing the camera closer but wanted the effect of the shooter.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Here is something that Keith over at AZ Precision made for me. Works great . I think I might be putting these on more rifles. It would be nice to have something to switch from scope to iron sights. Here some pics.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Going to Arkansas this month to shoot. I will try to take some pictures. In Jan. going to Big Pinney in MO. That should be a good time.

 

[badbot]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

wireless ptz camera 10 yards in front of target shooting through 1/2" lexan audio and video right now

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I would to find a way to show the shots from 1100 yards. I could place my other camera from 600 yards and show the shots.

 

[brandon33]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I would love to see a picture of some of your 600yd targets now to see how much you improved. Thanks for posting, I really enjoyed reading this post and seeing your progress. Also good to see your boys shooting.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I normally shoot year round. This year so far has been in the lower tens to below 0 temps. Not to mention the 20" of above snow fall. I will post this spring. I shot in arkansas one day this week. The temps there was in the lower 20s. When the temps warm up and I can get through the 7 ft snow drifts. I will post.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Just got back to Nebraska. 4 more inches of snow and expecting 10 more inches. Holy Shit. Anybody want to come up and shoot in 0 degrees and 28inches of snow? LOL

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Here is a video of shooting in Arkansas. I didn't bring the right camera but this one did work. I used the Itouch with BulletFlight program and had 1st round hits. This was only shooting at 525 yards at a 11" steel plate.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PhZra_VsegU"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PhZra_VsegU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[brandon33]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I know how you feel, it's been below 0 here for a couple weeks now. At least it can't get a lot worse, not for very long that is. Good luck with your shooting and the weather.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I think next week it is suppose to warm back into the 20s or 30s. Then will have to wait for the snow drifts to melt. Wisconsin is a cold one to. You guys are getting the same whether. Thanks

 

[sailhertoo]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting beyond 100yd is only going to tell you things about the wind that you can get right out of a ballistics spreadsheet. If the groups are so small you're tempted to go to 200yd, the message isn't that you need more distance to finish load development, it's that you're already done. If you're worried that the bullets haven't stabilized by then, the main news is likely that the MOA might tighten up somewhat beyond, so you're likely already seeing things as bad as they get.

Save the bore and the components for what comes <span style="font-style: italic">after</span> load development. If you, or anyone, are in a position to do unlimited load develoment in this current supply and demand environment, you've got far too many components on your hands for your own good.

LOL!

Greg </div></div>

Good post. I do all my load developement at 200 because I've heard the bullet dosent "go to sleep" and settle down until 200 or 300 yards.

Whats your thoughts on this "go to sleep" thing? Have you heard about it?

Thanks

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I have heard of this. I do think this is somewhat the case. I start at 100 yards and chrono the load at 100 yards. The reason for this, I can shoot out my shed for load and chrono. Once I have my SDs where I want them. I use a 20 shots through a chrono to get my SDs. Most of load development is in the guns first 200 rounds of the guns life. Then I usually go to the 800 yard line and shoot at the steel in the videos. This usually a good sign on how the load is.

Granted I have everything within walking distance. So this is why I do this. I think the 200 to 300 yard shooting is a excellent load development range. This will show you a couple of different things. Your groups,SDs, and how you are holding the rifle. I think this is the maximum distance you can shoot without the wind having a lot of affects on the bullet.

If that is working for you, then stick with it. Everybody does somethings a little different. Good Shooting

 

[sailhertoo]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Thanks for the input.

I would like to hear Greg's thoughts on this too since what he thinks is some what to the contrary.

On another note please tell me if its my shooting or my reloading. example - I load develope off a Caldwell shooting sled at 200 yards. I found a load that shoots 11/16". I thought wow - I've found my load. Go back a week later and the group opens up considerably.
I weigh brass, bullets, turn necks, ream primer pocket, trickel powder, use Redding Comp. dies, neck size only 1/3 of the neck. Consentrisidy is 0 - .003.
I'm just now learning about recoil and how the gun shoots to it and that everything needs to be the same when you pull the trigger.(same cheek weld pressure,shoulder pressure, etc)

I shot the FC Nationals at Butner last fall. After the first string of 15 rds at 600 yards, I was in first place with a score of 149-12x. Went down hill from there and ending up finishing in the middle of the pack. That first string was so easy and effortless, I just cant for the life of me figure out what went wrong.

Thanks for any input.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Example one. My son shot a 243 at the first 2 matches. His first string of fire was a 22 shot 2 of these were sighters. He would score in the 180s. The next 3 string of fire would be in the 160s to low 170s. Could not figure out why he would shoot great at the house and then tanks.

Barrrel life was gone. Before going to the match I would clean the rifle. He would shoot the 2 sighters and then the shoot the 20 for record. By the next 22 rounds the barrel would loosing accuracy. I switch the barrel and from there he shoots as good as anybody he shoots against.

How many rounds is down the tube? Would be a start.
If your SDs are not under 10. This will give you a variance in your groups at long range. You can do all the prep work but if the SDs are above 10. Then your groups will show. But with your gun shooting a 149-12x. I would look more at the barrel life of the throat.

Greg is very Knowledgeable at this. From my experience the barrel life could be one explanation of the loss of accuracy.

 

[sailhertoo]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Thanks.

It is a new gun from GAP. I've put around 1800 rounds down the barrel.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

1800 rounds depending on the caliber could throat a barrel out. How does it clean after 30 to 40 rounds? A bore scope is a good tool to have. What is your SDs. It sounds like you have done all the prep work on brass and your load. This is why I was thinking of the barrel.

After 30 to 40 rounds how is the copper fouling?

 

[sailhertoo]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I tried cleaning the barrel after the first string in a match but it did'nt seem to help. I only used Shooters Choice to clean it with and I could not really tell 'bout the copper fouling in it. I only use copper solvent every couple hundred rounds.

I thought a 308 barrel should last at least 3 to 4000 rds.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Some people when shooting will put the next round in the chamber and get ready for the next shot. A lot of people say this will change the pressures of your load.
Temperatures have an effect on loads. This can happen from the barrel getting hot. Wind temp alt. Can change