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SHOT worthless w/o public access

hypertex

hypertex

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 5, 2007
457
58
Bullhead City, Arizona
#1
I am disappointed in the fact that I am dependent on a search engine like Google to try and find a suitable target system for ELR. Target camera's and hit indicators have dramatically advanced(technologically) in the past year or two. Why can't I see them in one place rather than depending on a chance review or a sale? Anyone else?
 
#3
Irrelevant. The user still has no knowledge of available products unless it is mentioned online. Salesmen(who went to SHOT) are not likely to mention all the options. Many facets of our hobby are being limited in this way.

Who else is developing a change-out barrel system? Drone range camera? Bluetooth comms?

Half the time I do not even know what to search for. I'll call it one thing, the industry has another.
 
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#6
WNC Seabee said:
SHOT is simply not for retail consumers. It's an 'industry' show so that manufacturer's and distributors can get together to bring things to market. I seriously doubt you'd find a single cash register or stock or of sellable goods anywhere on site.
Click to expand...
Not asking for that. I need an expo to know what is available. There are a vast number of items at SHOT that are scheduled to be available in the future. That's valuable information.
 
#11
WNC Seabee said:
SHOT is simply not for retail consumers. It's an 'industry' show so that manufacturer's and distributors can get together to bring things to market. I seriously doubt you'd find a single cash register or stock or of sellable goods anywhere on site.
Click to expand...
Don't want to go out on a tangent here but... A person, representing a country, approaches a scope manufacturer and asks if the scope can be delivered in white. Well yes says the scope mfr., but we would have to stop the line to make them. I need 50 of them says the countryman.

I purposely left out the who and the company.

This appears to also be what SHOT is for.
 
#12
What, you don’t think you’re getting honest expositions of products here? Not only that but how much shit has been debuted here before anywhere else? How many pre-order deals have you seen before the stuff is even out? I don’t see anyone here afraid to give their honest opinion even when the designers/manufacturers are posting in the next frame! If you pay attention here you will find thousands of people hunting for products to give them an advantage in whatever shooting they’re doing, and sharing that with everyone else. Isn’t that a far sight better than a collection of commercials or infomercials or marketing programs put out to influence you?
 
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#13
hypertex said:
Don't want to go out on a tangent here but... A person, representing a country, approaches a scope manufacturer and asks if the scope can be delivered in white. Well yes says the scope mfr., but we would have to stop the line to make them. I need 50 of them says the countryman.

I purposely left out the who and the company.

This appears to also be what SHOT is for.
Click to expand...


Well...yeah. Exactly. The MANUFACTURER is negotiating/qualifying a potential BULK/CORPORATE/GOV Client, not bagging up a single scope for Tactical Timmy to go to the range with next week.

It's also a great venue for some upstart to show up with a prototype....meet a bunch of potential distributors and figure out if the idea is shit or shinola.
 
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#14
hypertex said:
Does it actually make sense to you all that the largest expo/convention is closed to the public? That's the point I'm trying to make.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does. Over the years/decades, I have worked more (non-firearm) industry trade shows than I care to admit or even think about. The shows are for manufacturers to display their products to distributors and OEMs, the people that will buy a manufacturer's product in bulk and re-sell them to end users in one form or another. An end user will endlessly kick tires, burn up sales people's valuable time, then buy nothing. If they do buy something on the off chance, it will be qty 1.

"Community College Day" at the trade shows that I worked were always a barrel of laughs.......... :rolleyes:
 
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#15
Indeed, this is one place.

Using Bluetooth comms, what is the industry calling it? Can't search for something without a name. I can walk up to "Walker" and ask them if their BT hearing protection allows conversations between shooters on the line. Don't have it? Easy enough to implement.
(Hypothetical)Good idea! Let's call it "Line Advantage™" (Name has nothing to do with bluetooth, comms or shooting)

FYI, I love my Walker hearing protectors w/Bluetooth
 
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#17
hypertex said:
Does it actually make sense to you all that the largest expo/convention is closed to the public? That's the point I'm trying to make.
Click to expand...

It does to me. I take part in several large conventions / trade-shows every year as sales team member for a manufacturer (not firearms industry) and they are absolutely geared towards industry insiders, large distributors and retailers. The point of a trade-show isn't to sell to the public. A manufacturer's main goal is to get new products into the hands of the distributors.

The staff on-hand isn't nearly large enough to give adequate attention to the number of people coming through the booth if it was open to the public, and they may not even employ enough people to handle that crowd. I have a large Sales territory in the US as well as Central and South America so at trade-shows my time is pretty monopolized just with industry people...not including any general public.
 
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#19
WestDesertPRS said:
It does to me. I take part in several large conventions / trade-shows every year as sales team member for a manufacturer (not firearms industry) and they are absolutely geared towards industry insiders, large distributors and retailers. The point of a trade-show isn't to sell to the public. A manufacturer's main goal is to get new products into the hands of the distributors.

The staff on-hand isn't nearly large enough to give adequate attention to the number of people coming through the booth if it was open to the public, and they may not even employ enough people to handle that crowd. I have a large Sales territory in the US as well as Central and South America so at trade-shows my time is pretty monopolized just with industry people...not including any general public.
Click to expand...
How else is the public to find out about your product? Distributors and retailers ? How about your competitor in the field? Will the same distributor/retailer be carrying that as well?

We're getting off track here, trying to figure out a channel of communication that SHOT provides but is denied to the public at large.
 
#24
bhanley said:
at some point the search engines will start to suppress online results - if its not already being done. a coordinated effort funded by antigunners
Click to expand...


I don't think they already are. Main reason is: I can, merely, THINK about buying a new XXX and next thing you know, every 3rd ad or pop up is for said product I was THINKING about. lol
 
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#25
For 2020, SHOT has a reported 156 exhibiting companies and estimated 60,000 attendees. SHOT has been running for 40 years. Money talks, right? If there was money to be made by exhibitors or attendees by opening the show to the public, I think somebody would have figured that out by now. SHOT is business to business, not a consumer show.
 
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#26
Lot of the products from Shot 2019 aren't even available yet so opening to the public is a waste unless you want to know what is planned for the future which doesn't help the consumer because of the wait time before it will be released to the public. In today's world who has time to wait for that , show me something I can buy now.
 
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#27
A&8's said:
I don't think they already are. Main reason is: I can, merely, THINK about buying a new XXX and next thing you know, every 3rd ad or pop up is for said product I was THINKING about. lol
Click to expand...

xxx gun product, or xxx non-gun product? agree that today theycwill take any dollar they can. but if b-berg or soros want to pay $0.02 to suppress an ad where search engine would have got $0.01 from the gun vendor, bet your ass theyd take the $0.02 and suppress it.

question is is that tactic economical. or are they better off just influencing mgmt in different ways to be anti-violence
 
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#28
2aBaCa said:
Sounds like theres a need for a full on Shot directory of exhibitors and their new products.

Somebody start putting this together for next year.
Click to expand...
There's an idea. But use my BT example, seeing it would be easy, need to know what it's called to look it up.

A&8's said:
Apply for an FFL and go to SHOT. (That was easy!)
Click to expand...

That helps me, but what about everyone else? Like the a previous poster said something about bulk sales vs. single sale.
 
#29
hypertex said:
How else is the public to find out about your product? Distributors and retailers ?
Click to expand...

That's one of the actual purposes of retailers/distributors.

hypertex said:
How about your competitor in the field?
Click to expand...

That's why companies sponsor events and have sponsored individuals in attendance.

I get your frustration, but its 2020. Obviously the Hide is the best one-stop shop for info about upcoming and current products. If you keep up with following the content here and listen to Frank's podcast, there's always discussion about upcoming products/designs. Hell, a lot of the manufacturers out there have accounts on here and frequently communicate directly to us filthy commoners. You cant ask for a better or easier way to go about it.

You can keep up to date with products and communicate directly with companies all from your phone while sitting on the shitter. No need to take time off work, fly to some random place, pay for a hotel/meals/car, waddle about for a day or two, then travel home. Companies incur those expenses, and more, each time they go to such events. Personally, I don't want to have to pay a higher product price in order for manufacturers to compensate for the increased expenses for hosting a consumer-targeted convention each year.

Social Media, as much as I fucking hate it, is the best way to not only find out about what each company releases, but also allows for a direct line of communication between the consumer and manufacturer. Instagram is free and seems to be the fastest way to follow and keep up with each brand/organization out there. Use the available (and free) instant means of communication to send your questions to the company's Sales/CS team.

Also, having worked customer service, I wouldn't want to put that kind of strain on the sales/marketing department (not to mention the backlog) where they are trapped in a giant smelly hot convention center talking to someone who just wants to talk and isn't going to be using or purchasing the product anyways. It's like the poor souls that work gun shop counters in stores. It's an 8 hour day of dudes coming in to talk about what they already own or how they are just looking but want to finger fuck everything in the case knowing that they aren't going to buy it. Shit you can find a stack of youtube videos of dudes who, somehow, got into SHOT and fumble through an "interview" with zero prep or even the most basic of interpersonal or interviewing skills. That's the last thing we need adding to the cluster that is "reviews/highlight" videos on YT.
 
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#30
candyx said:
Lot of the products from Shot 2019 aren't even available yet so opening to the public is a waste unless you want to know what is planned for the future which doesn't help the consumer because of the wait time before it will be released to the public. In today's world who has time to wait for that , show me something I can buy now.
Click to expand...

hypertex said:
Not asking for that. I need an expo to know what is available. There are a vast number of items at SHOT that are scheduled to be available in the future. That's valuable information.
Click to expand...

So there's a need being filled now versus "later this year", but if I know that a better product than what is currently available is just around the corner, why waste money? e.g. The new one fixes what the original promised.
 
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#31
The shot show is already very crowded making it hard enough to get around without the public. It's at least in my case a place to meet many manufacturers and work out deals and pricing for the coming year. For example we would purchase all the clay targets, shot shells, sponsorships, and deals with gun manufacturers etc. for the ATA.
 
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#32
M8541Reaper said:
That's one of the actual purposes of retailers/distributors.



That's why companies sponsor events and have sponsored individuals in attendance.

I get your frustration, but its 2020. Obviously the Hide is the best one-stop shop for info about upcoming and current products. If you keep up with following the content here and listen to Frank's podcast, there's always discussion about upcoming products/designs. Hell, a lot of the manufacturers out there have accounts on here and frequently communicate directly to us filthy commoners. You cant ask for a better or easier way to go about it.

You can keep up to date with products and communicate directly with companies all from your phone while sitting on the shitter. No need to take time off work, fly to some random place, pay for a hotel/meals/car, waddle about for a day or two, then travel home. Companies incur those expenses, and more, each time they go to such events. Personally, I don't want to have to pay a higher product price in order for manufacturers to compensate for the increased expenses for hosting a consumer-targeted convention each year.

Social Media, as much as I fucking hate it, is the best way to not only find out about what each company releases, but also allows for a direct line of communication between the consumer and manufacturer. Instagram is free and seems to be the fastest way to follow and keep up with each brand/organization out there. Use the available (and free) instant means of communication to send your questions to the company's Sales/CS team.

Also, having worked customer service, I wouldn't want to put that kind of strain on the sales/marketing department (not to mention the backlog) where they are trapped in a giant smelly hot convention center talking to someone who just wants to talk and isn't going to be using or purchasing the product anyways. It's like the poor souls that work gun shop counters in stores. It's an 8 hour day of dudes coming in to talk about what they already own or how they are just looking but want to finger fuck everything in the case knowing that they aren't going to buy it. Shit you can find a stack of youtube videos of dudes who, somehow, got into SHOT and fumble through an "interview" with zero prep or even the most basic of interpersonal or interviewing skills. That's the last thing we need adding to the cluster that is "reviews/highlight" videos on YT.
Click to expand...
Everything you mention is spot on. There's no easy answer to my question. I keep coming back to the BT comms and/or what it would be called otherwise. e.g. Site search for "Bluetooth Comms" yields Kestrel, rangefinder, software and hearing protection; no comms
 
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#33
Badfinger said:
The shot show is already very crowded making it hard enough to get around without the public. It's at least in my case a place to meet many manufacturers and work out deals and pricing for the coming year. For example we would purchase all the clay targets, shot shells, sponsorships, and deals with gun manufacturers etc. for the ATA.
Click to expand...
So tell me, how can I "see" what's available or coming soon? Emphasis on see. In ATA, one could use BT comms, the ranges are not that long. But what would it be called? Can't search for something if one doesn't know what the industry is calling it, today. Silencer/suppressor, muzzle brake/flash hider, Remage/switch barrel, etc.
 
#34
hypertex said:
There's an idea. But use my BT example, seeing it would be easy, need to know what it's called to look it up.



That helps me, but what about everyone else? Like the a previous poster said something about bulk sales vs. single sale.
Click to expand...

Spitballing here it could work several ways or a combination.

1) make it to where exhibitors provide information to a site.
Checking boxes from predetermined industry categories, types of products, brief descriptions, website links etc.

2) boots on the ground collecting information. Or a wikipedia's type end user editable so any attendee or 3ed party could add a product or exhibit.

There could be money to be made on traffic and advertising.
 
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#35
Here's an idea...call a retailer that sells stuff kinda sorta like what you're after and say, "Hey, I'm looking for blue tooth comms, you know something that does...."

Mrs. Friendly Retailer can say, "You know what, our industry insider/buyer just got back from SHOT and told us about this whizbang dealio that's coming soon...."

You know, like, how MFG > DiST > Retail is supposed to work?
 
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#36
hypertex said:
Everything you mention is spot on. There's no easy answer to my question. I keep coming back to the BT comms and/or what it would be called otherwise. e.g. Site search for "Bluetooth Comms" yields Kestrel, rangefinder, software and hearing protection; no comms
Click to expand...
Yea it is sometimes hard to hammer down info, especially when we aren't all on the same page. I'd try researching who makes bluetooth two-way communication devices, or something of the similar, and then reach out to those who are making the tech. If it isn't something that exists yet, go to the companies you prefer and pitch it to them. I think you mentioned Walker above. To see if that's something they offer, try reaching out directly to them. MSA, Peltor, Harris, etc, try hitting up the big names on ear pro and I'm sure there is a product out there or in the works. Obviously bluetooth comms exist, so it isn't that far off to imagine what you're looking for exists or would soon.
 
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#37
2aBaCa said:
Spitballing here it could work several ways or a combination.

1) make it to where exhibitors provide information to a site.
Checking boxes from predetermined industry categories, types of products, brief descriptions, website links etc.

2) boots on the ground collecting information. Or a wikipedia's type end user editable so any attendee or 3ed party could add a product or exhibit.

There could be money to be made on traffic and advertising.
Click to expand...
that's two
 
#38
M8541Reaper said:
Yea it is sometimes hard to hammer down info, especially when we aren't all on the same page. I'd try researching who makes bluetooth two-way communication devices, or something of the similar, and then reach out to those who are making the tech. If it isn't something that exists yet, go to the companies you prefer and pitch it to them. I think you mentioned Walker above. To see if that's something they offer, try reaching out directly to them. MSA, Peltor, Harris, etc, try hitting up the big names on ear pro and I'm sure there is a product out there or in the works. Obviously bluetooth comms exist, so it isn't that far off to imagine what you're looking for exists or would soon.
Click to expand...
It was dangerous of me to concentrate on BT comms as my example. Not my intent(even though would be cool) Comms will be available(again) in an upcoming update to the protocol
 
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#39
hypertex said:
So tell me, how can I "see" what's available or coming soon? Emphasis on see. In ATA, one could use BT comms, the ranges are not that long. But what would it be called? Can't search for something if one doesn't know what the industry is calling it, today. Silencer/suppressor, muzzle brake/flash hider, Remage/switch barrel, etc.
Click to expand...

They should run drones up and down the booths.
 
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#41
candyx said:
They should run drones up and down the booths.
Click to expand...
How about an information Kiosk spaced out intermittently in the expo, people login and ask a question of a nearby participant. Said participant is alerted that there are questions at the kiosk and either collects them for processing later or answers them on the spot.

This idea still does not address the "seeing" of an offered device by a non-typical supplier. Big mfr. of machine guns also has hearing and vision protection, but in another division.
 
#43
OP : You can get in.
As you’ve been advised, get an FFL and open a business.

Seriously, approach the SHOT Show committee and make your suggestion to it.
(No, I won’t look up the link for you.)

You may be “the voice” that effects the change You seek.

The guys here can’t give you what you want. Wrong venue.

Calling an industry show that has a 40 year history of success “worthless” because the public (you) can’t get in without some work on your part, well that is another thread...
 
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#45
John_in_WYO said:
OP : You can get in.
As you’ve been advised, get an FFL and open a business.

Seriously, approach the SHOT Show committee and make your suggestion to it.
(No, I won’t look up the link for you.)

You may be “the voice” that effects the change You seek.

The guys here can’t give you what you want. Wrong venue.

Calling an industry show that has a 40 year history of success “worthless” because the public (you) can’t get in without some work on your part, well that is another thread...
Click to expand...
Yes, indeed. But I need ammo, hence the post and timing of the post
 
#48
The real purpose for shot is for dealers to set up distribution chains. It’s for new products to get in front of writers, shooters, LE, military and retailers. It’s not for the general public. It is so ducking crowded as it is if it were open to the public you wouldn’t get in anyway because by the time the people have money to spend buying in bulk have filled the exhibition hall the fire marshall would shut it down. Become a blogger and apply for a media badge, easiest way to get in.
 
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#49
hypertex said:
How else is the public to find out about your product? Distributors and retailers ? How about your competitor in the field? Will the same distributor/retailer be carrying that as well?

We're getting off track here, trying to figure out a channel of communication that SHOT provides but is denied to the public at large.
Click to expand...

That's the whole point of my dealer network. I sell to my dealers and its their responsibility to sell to the customers. As a manufacturer there's not nearly as much business in single sales to individuals as there is in bulk distribution to retailers. It just doesn't work that way.

If my dealers aren't moving our products its either a product problem or a dealer problem. We work with them figure out which it is and either fix the product or find a better dealer.
 
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