Gunsmithing Shotguns Not Ejecting

[rg1911]

I entered my first 3-gun match yesterday. I had to borrow a shotgun (an FN SLP that ran perfectly with my ammo) because neither my Remington 11-87 nor my Saiga would eject. I had two brands of shells: some Winchester $20-per-100 ammo and a slightly more expensive Estate Super Sport Competition Target. Both were 2-3/4-inch, 1-1/8-ounce, lead birdshot (#7-1/2 shot) that the match called for. The Winchester is labeled as being 3 Dram equivalent and the other as being 2-3/4 Dram equivalent.

Both shotguns were correctly lubricated.

The 11-87 is supposed to be self-regulating. The Saiga has a two-position adjustment; I tried both with no noticeable difference.

I had not shot either shotgun much (and not at all in the past few years), but both ran just fine when I bought them. ('Fraid I cannot remember the loads, but slug was one of them.)

My initial thought is that the ammunition is the cause, so I'll see if I can find something better. Unfortunately, there isn't a great selection in Laramie, so I may have to order some.

Is there anything mechanical and any specific ammo I should investigate? (Note that there are no shotgun 'smiths anywhere nearby.)

Thank you,
Richard

 

[Hoser]

Some shotguns do not get along well with the non-brass base ammo like estate or other cheap bulk pack.

And, there is also a reason why lots and lots of 3-Gunners shoot Benellis and not 1100/11-87s. The VersaMax is also a good option. Almost a gas operated version of the Benelli.

3 1/4 dram or 1 1/8 oz at 1200-1225 should make most shotguns run.

Those that shoot mag fed shotguns have spent a boatload on them to get them reliable.

When I played with the 1100, I had to run it really wet and had open up the gas ports. I ended up with 2 of them so while I was shooting one, my gunsmith could be fixing the other.

Now I have a M2 with a 10 round tube and am very happy.

 

[rg1911]

Thank you. Due to the slender budget, I'll order some ammo that meets the 1200-1225 fps recommendation. If all else fails, the Stoeger M3K has been suggested as a good 3-Gun shotgun. I would, however, have to save up for it, so finding some ammo that works in at least one of my shotguns would be good. The Benellis and the Versa Max are WAY outside my budget. I could save up, but I'd be in a nursing home by the time I could buy one.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[G17C]

Speaking of the 1187, I would first try cleaning and lubrication if it's been years since you used it and have not cleaned it since. Also check that you installed the gas rings correctly if you had it apart.

Also note there are a variety of gas port sizes available for 1187s. Slug barrels will have small ports for full power loads, trap barrels will have larger ports for lighter target loads. Slug barrels will not run light target loads. There are also a few pressure compensating barrels, which I have on my modified 1187 (a 28" vent-rib that was cut to 18-3/4"). You need to determine the load(s) you plan to use and set it up accordingly.

Since mine is intended primarily for a HD role, it is set up for Federal LE reduced recoil buckshot and slug loads, which it runs without issue.

 

[G17C]

Thank you. Due to the slender budget, I'll order some ammo that meets the 1200-1225 fps recommendation.

You can make your 1187 run with light target loads with one of these (see page 15, point 8 here for installation info). Just remember to remove it before using full power loads.

 

[rg1911]

Speaking of the 1187, I would first try cleaning and lubrication if it's been years since you used it and have not cleaned it since. Also check that you installed the gas rings correctly if you had it apart.

Also note there are a variety of gas port sizes available for 1187s. Slug barrels will have small ports for full power loads, trap barrels will have larger ports for lighter target loads. Slug barrels will not run light target loads. There are also a few pressure compensating barrels, which I have on my modified 1187 (a 28" vent-rib that was cut to 18-3/4"). You need to determine the load(s) you plan to use and set it up accordingly.

Thank you. I was not aware of the different port sizes. I had, by the way, cleaned and lubricated it before putting it away, so I do not *think* that is a problem. I must have disassembled it to install the SP barrel, so I'll double-check that the seals are correctly placed.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[rg1911]

You can make your 1187 run with light target loads with one of these (see page 15, point 8 here for installation info). Just remember to remove it before using full power loads.

Thank you. I just ordered one and will install it if the ammunition I also ordered does not do the trick. (The reviews all stated that the person's 11-87 digested everything after installing the ring; no mention of having to remove it except if switching to 3-inch shells, which I don't ever plan to do. I'll have to make sure to do a bit more research).

Cheers,
Richard

 

[6AYoteHunter]

You should be able to get that 11-87 working just fine with even 1 oz loads if it has a plastic wad. We use them all the time dove hunting with the bulk remington and winchester ammo at Walmart and then reload the hulls one time for Quail season.
Make sure that rubber o-ring is in place and still fitting tight. Use light oil on the tube so everything can slide easy.
Also clean your buffer spring and use a light grease here.
Check gas ports for wad buildup.
In these guns you can actually shoot a couple high brass loads like 3" buckshot with the factory ring to blowout the carbon to get a little more time before cleaning. Discovered this shooting coyotes with buckshot during upland season.
That new pressure ring should minimize issues after 200+ rounds without cleaning with cheap ammo. It could mask another issue though that could arise later if not addressed now. So would test a bunch before swapping to that ring. Will enhance your reliability during matches. I did this and can go twice as long before a FTE.

 

[rg1911]

^^^^^
Thank you. It's looking like I need to disassemble the 11-87 and make sure everything is good to go.

Of course, this doesn't explain the Saiga having the same fail-to-eject issue. That may be fixed with different ammo.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[z28kid]

The M3K is a good option, but even it needs some work to be more reliable. I put a benelli extractor in mine and it fixed the problem I was having with the cheaper ammo. I also did trigger springs and new sights but that's more personal I guess.

I have only about 300 rounds through mine but just going to share my experience with it.

 

[rg1911]

^^^^
Appreciate the personal experience. Basically, when you start really using a firearm, something almost always needs to be tweaked/modified. I don't think I have any firearms that I use in competition that are straight-from-the-box. Fortunately, most tweaks can be done as the budget permits.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Jrb572]

I found out well lubed and 1187 do not go well in the same sentence. Mine would not eject anything and I was told by a friend it was the lube causing the problem. I wiped it down and lightly lube. It ejects everything now.

 

[rg1911]

^^^^^
Interesting. I'll wipe things down a bit more (although I didn't have it dripping).

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Eagle1899]

I found out well lubed and 1187 do not go well in the same sentence. Mine would not eject anything and I was told by a friend it was the lube causing the problem. I wiped it down and lightly lube. It ejects everything now.

This ^^^^^^ 1100's are the same way. Too much lube slows the action way down. Light weight oil and sparingly.

 

[rg1911]

You can make your 1187 run with light target loads with one of these (see page 15, point 8 here for installation info). Just remember to remove it before using full power loads.

I have cleaned the heavy lube off the 11-87 and very lightly re-lubricated it. The gas ports in the barrel were perfectly clear. If that and the higher-power ammo still don't do the trick, does the Barrel Seal Activator replace any part, or, as shown for the 11-87 Magnum, does it just go between the barrel seal and the Piston/Piston Seal assembly?

As an aside, some of the drawings in the PDF file that show the parts and their placement are super blurry, so I'm guessing at a couple things.

Thank you,
Richard

 

[G17C]

...does it just go between the barrel seal and the Piston/Piston Seal assembly?

Yes.

http://www.remingtonowners.com/topic1153.html

 

[rg1911]

Yes.

http://www.remingtonowners.com/topic1153.html

Thanks! Have bookmarked that site. It has clearer pictures than the manual in PDF form.

Richard

 

[rg1911]

Success! Thanks to all for the information that fixed the 11-87 problem. Between cleaning off all the excess lube and installing the Barrel Seal Activator, the 11-87 digested everything I threw at it, including the birdshot loads.

I had also found some additional information that the 11-87 Special Purpose (which is what mine is) is designed for loads stronger than birdshot; more along the lines of turkey loads.

I then ran some #6 shot, 3-1/4 dram equivalent loads through the Saiga, and it functioned perfectly. Birdshot loads are not going to function the action.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[MarkCO]

11-87 SPs and Saigas, you are correct, are not going to like anything under 3 1/4 Dram without some significant work. SLPs are good shotguns, but they need to be kept up on the spring replacement every 1K rounds or so.

If you are serious about 3Gun, you would be better of selling the 11-87 and getting a shotgun that will run with the longer tubes and lighter loads. The 1100/11-87 are good guns, when they have 3 shells or less in the magazine tube. The stamped metal parts in the trigger, that lock open after each shot and then the bolt is released by throwing the shell into the latch, needs string magazine tube springs, and then you wear those stamped parts out pretty fast. They will last maybe 5-6K rounds before it is time for a new trigger group if you are running an 8-10 round tube.

 

[G17C]

Success! Thanks to all for the information that fixed the 11-87 problem. Between cleaning off all the excess lube and installing the Barrel Seal Activator, the 11-87 digested everything I threw at it, including the birdshot loads.

Good news, thanks for the update!

 

[rg1911]

11-87 SPs and Saigas, you are correct, are not going to like anything under 3 1/4 Dram without some significant work. SLPs are good shotguns, but they need to be kept up on the spring replacement every 1K rounds or so.

If you are serious about 3Gun, you would be better of selling the 11-87 and getting a shotgun that will run with the longer tubes and lighter loads. The 1100/11-87 are good guns, when they have 3 shells or less in the magazine tube. The stamped metal parts in the trigger, that lock open after each shot and then the bolt is released by throwing the shell into the latch, needs string magazine tube springs, and then you wear those stamped parts out pretty fast. They will last maybe 5-6K rounds before it is time for a new trigger group if you are running an 8-10 round tube.

Agree. The budget just isn't up to a better choice right now. Shall have to use what I've got, at least for another year or so.

Which spring needs to be replaced every 1k rounds? The magazine tube spring?

Cheers,
Richard

 

[MarkCO]

On the SLP, change the Mag tube spring and the lifter spring every 1K. That will keep it the happiest, and they are cheap enough.

 

[rg1911]

On the SLP, change the Mag tube spring and the lifter spring every 1K. That will keep it the happiest, and they are cheap enough.

Will do. Thank you for the tip.

Richard