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Sidearms & Scatterguns Shotshells for Defense
- Thread starter MtnCreek
- Start date
few good videos that go over Shotguns for SD and choosing a defensive load
personally i just stick with 00 Buck........been considered the 'standard' for a long time.......havent shot anyone with it, but im assuming itll do just fine.
personally i just stick with 00 Buck........been considered the 'standard' for a long time.......havent shot anyone with it, but im assuming itll do just fine.
00 buckshot. A few years ago a good friend with the Pa State police had a perp come after him with a knife. He started at app. 10 yrs. made it to 7 before he was hit enter mass with a load of 12 ga 00 buck, stopped the fight right there. Best was he put another round to the perps head. Got to see the pictures, there will always be 00 buck loaded in my defense shotgun!
Mike
Mike
Buckshot or slugs rules the day. I'll give some opinion based on shooting possums off the trash can. Flushed bird that you get on fast with #9 to #7.5 at 10 yds, boom, pink mist and floating feathers, ruined bird. Same bird at 20 yds is a solid kill with floating feathers. Same bird at 30 yds is kill, no drama. At 40 yds you're wringing a neck. What happens? Bird shot looses its energy very, very fast. For folks that spend another $10+ / box of bullets for a slightly more bc, that shouldn't be a surprise. 000 to 4 buck, figure what works for you and your situation. If you feel your situation requires birdshot, you need to know what you have and what you're dealing with. Small two room apartment with people all around, it may be the right choice, but it's not the man stopper larger shot is, despite feelings...
^ I used to think pick a load and go with it. Started carrying a shotgun in my truck and decided on 00 first and slugs after that. Gives me a fu off the bat for whatever and aimed fu thereafter. Fwiw, I have a couple of those hated pgo guns in places and 31 pellet 4B resides in them. People make fun, but from what I can tell it's strong medicine.
I will say... Brenneke is king of slugs.
And don't underestimate reduced recoil loads. Or 20ga for smaller strength/stature people.
And don't underestimate reduced recoil loads. Or 20ga for smaller strength/stature people.
#4 Buckshot for close range work. 24 Shots in a pattern is better than 9. Inside 10 yards (house) it's almost inhumane.
I served on Grand Jury for 6 months back in 1983. One of the cases we saw was a woman shot her abusuve husband, from across the room, square in the chest, with a 20ga shotgun loaded with bird shot. She killed him graveyard dead. She fucked him up. That POS was dead before he hit the ground. So I’ve seen first hand what bird shot will do from across the room, and it ain’t pretty. Am I advocating using bird shot for self defense....No. I, however, would not have a problem, or a second thought, about using bird shot for self defense. I will say that I don’t have a home defense shotgun, so I haven’t had to make that choice. This is more of a “for what it’s worth” post.
My experience has been that buck shot doesn’t open up much for in the House distances. Bird shot is even marginal IMO.
Picked up one of the New Rem TAC14’s. Found that from less than 7 yrds using #9 the pattern was about 5”wide, WHEN I COULD GET A SOLID HIT SHOOTING FROM THE WAIST.
Picked up one of the New Rem TAC14’s. Found that from less than 7 yrds using #9 the pattern was about 5”wide, WHEN I COULD GET A SOLID HIT SHOOTING FROM THE WAIST.
Talked to an ex Philly Cop who works at a l9cal pistol range . Was asking him and another guy behind the counter about the pistol gripped shotgun on display .My first thoughts we totally ussless . One relayed that while on narcotics squad they carried one on stakeouts in case they got caught in a hallway . He said 7 shot would clear the hall . I don't count on my scattergun for SD just relaing the info .
I've been keeping the house shotgun stoked with 00 Buck, the 2 3/4" 9 pellet variety.
Back at the embassy, we carried 4 Buck, 2 3/4" 27 pellet.
I'm kind of thinking I might move to a 1 Buck, 2 3/4" 16 pellet. Kind of a compromise between two known performers.
Back at the embassy, we carried 4 Buck, 2 3/4" 27 pellet.
I'm kind of thinking I might move to a 1 Buck, 2 3/4" 16 pellet. Kind of a compromise between two known performers.
I started out testing with the Winchester mil grade in my 590 but didn't like the spread at 25 yards then the PDX1 with three 00 pellets and slug and finally settled on the PDX1 with the segmented slug that breaks into three pieces on impact. It's pretty dam accurate at acceptable ranges and packs a hell of punch. The Razorback XT is basically the same thing but a better price since it doesn't have the tacticool marketing.
2-1/4" mini 00 Buck is in my SG as well. Longest shot distance in my house is about 16 yds, so no matter what load is shot, it's not spreading much. Still fires at 1250fps, cycles reliably in the pump, and I've never had one FTF. I've cut a couple open to compare to the 2-3/4" shells, the only noticeable difference is the wad size... Powder charge is within 5%. Shot itself is identical.
This Asgard Defense forward cartridge setup allows me to quickly choose from the right side of the menu which is usually different than the left side of the menu.
I have no evidence to back it up but i am pretty sure a round or 2 of high velocity 6 shot at about 5-8 yds max is going to fuck up an intruders day.
You guys talking about 25yds must have some big ass houses.
You guys talking about 25yds must have some big ass houses.
I live rural so I like a balanced round in the SG that can reach out far enough to address any critter that might be around the house. By that I mean maybe 25-30 yards.
The Hornady Critical Defense 00 Buck has the Versatite wad (same as Federal Flite Control I believe) holds about 7" at 15 yards in my cylinder bore 870. Only 8 pellets in that load but MV is 1600 fps. Nice load.
The Hornady Critical Defense 00 Buck has the Versatite wad (same as Federal Flite Control I believe) holds about 7" at 15 yards in my cylinder bore 870. Only 8 pellets in that load but MV is 1600 fps. Nice load.
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The Aurora Theater shooter fired 6 rounds of 00 buckshot, many wounded, none of the 12 died from buckshot. Several of the other 71 injured had buckshot wounds. Some came close to death. One took a blast in the back, one in the face with a pellet stopping just at the front of her brain. Some in the legs and head, most torso. Sure, maybe anecdotal, but taken in combination with most of the shootings I have worked on professionally involving buckshot and some of my research with LE, buck (and more so birdshot) shootings are hard to get good data on since there are not a lot and some are big dudes jacked up on speed or meth. If I had to pick a load, it would be slug. If that was not an option, then #1buck in a buffered load.
Why head shots matter.
Other cases of physical activity following penetrating gunshot wounds to the heart have been published by Spitz et al. and Levy and Rao. In a ‘‘worst-case’’ scenario described by DiMaio, a man was able to walk 20 meters after sustaining a hit from a 12-gauge shotgun from a range of 3–4 m which destroyed his entire heart. Missliwetz reported a similar close range shotgun case with laceration of the posterior wall of the heart and complete transection of the thoracic aorta where the young man still walked a distance of 6 m. These very rare examples of immediate circulatory arrest from gunshot wounds demonstrate without any doubt that a potential for physical activity is present in such cases.
Therefore, direct trajectories involving the heart, the aorta (especially the thoracic part) or the truncus of the pulmonary artery can cause rapid incapacitation but they cannot be relied upon to terminate the physical activity of the victim immediately.
Other cases of physical activity following penetrating gunshot wounds to the heart have been published by Spitz et al. and Levy and Rao. In a ‘‘worst-case’’ scenario described by DiMaio, a man was able to walk 20 meters after sustaining a hit from a 12-gauge shotgun from a range of 3–4 m which destroyed his entire heart. Missliwetz reported a similar close range shotgun case with laceration of the posterior wall of the heart and complete transection of the thoracic aorta where the young man still walked a distance of 6 m. These very rare examples of immediate circulatory arrest from gunshot wounds demonstrate without any doubt that a potential for physical activity is present in such cases.
Therefore, direct trajectories involving the heart, the aorta (especially the thoracic part) or the truncus of the pulmonary artery can cause rapid incapacitation but they cannot be relied upon to terminate the physical activity of the victim immediately.
Just for thought. Several recent very real incidents with bird shot I have had a chance to learn of say it is not nearly enough, even at close ranges, say in a living room of a house or point blank.
Stick with buckshot or slugs boys.
Or the G19 in a holster and the 5.56 in your hand........
Stick with buckshot or slugs boys.
Or the G19 in a holster and the 5.56 in your hand........
Seen lots of shootings in 25 years of state police work, stay with BUCKSHOT or SLUGS if you want incapacitation. My carry is Federal Trueball slugs or Flightcontrol Buckshot for a reason.
Yep, 00 would be my choice. When my mom was pregnant with me she and my father had just got out of the army. Both were medics/nurses. There was a "coke deal gone bad" a few houses down from my grandmother's house and they showed up right away. Basically a guy knocked on the door and blasted the person that opened it point blank with a 12ga. with bird shot (don't know the size, assuming small). Right in the gut, no bones. He was fucked up good but out of the 400 or so pellets none causes significant injury. It looked a LOT worse than it was my dad said, his gut looked like raw hamburger but the wound wasn't deep enough, didn't hit vital organs and didn't cause enough bleeding to do the trick.
Bleeding is where most of the effect comes from, some people get effect from shock and of course mobility kills. I've heard of a guy that took a .40 in a courtroom (saw the video actually) and it dropped him INSTANTLY with no vital damage. Another guy took a load of 00 point blank and ran for nearly a minute --with NO heart left, it was completely disintegrated. But technically the body can keep going until it's starved of o2 or you have a mobility kill. A "friend" of mine, before he went off the deep end, tried to attack his girlfriend and a guy she was seeing with butcher knife. Guy was a marine with a 12ga. and blew his legs right from under him and he kept coming like a fucking Chucky doll (kinda looked like him) with one leg hanging by some threads. Did NOT stop him, he just wasn't very fast without both legs. I had a friend shoot himself in the head with a .25 when I was 14, took out r optic nerve and exited l eyeball. Burned the brain sac but didn't penetrate and blew his sinuses out, blind with no smell until he died in a house fire last summer. He'd have died had I not been there but that's another story. Guy took one to the temple and tried to run off! I had to pull him down and compress a wet towel against his head while I waited on the ambulance. The blood was everywhere, he needed seven or more complete transfusions and nearly 30 surgeries over the next few weeks (he went on to beat the shit of everyone for the next 25 years, never lost a fight and he was fucking blind). There's this other guy that stopped an escape from a military prison, got 3 warnings and kept climbing the fence. He fired from 20 yards or so and some of the 00 pellets did penetrate but didn't exit the denim shirt (that's about as perfect as it gets). The exited pellets were found in his shirt, tucked in his pants so all were recovered. This was that plain shit the army issues.
Personally I think of shotguns as heavy duty tools to open doors with or put food on the table if need be, but they are handy weapons. I'll still stick with the M4. But if I were gonna tote a shotgun, I'd want the Hornady TAP 00. It uses that same flitecontrol wad and has ~1700fps velocity vs. 1325 because they use one less pellet. IMO, that's about the perfect shotshell for defense. I also tested a BUNCH (20-30 different brands and loads) in a 500 and that one was by FAR the best. Tight patterns and all the patterns were consistent, no bunching up of shot, no uncovered areas of the patter.
000 3" and #4 3" Win. XX were the most powerful I tested and had the most recoil, but 42 pellets of #4 buck in a 3" shell, damn. I heard somewhere that was #4 was a round Seals used for ambushes in Vietnam out of those automatic Remingtons but I don't know for sure, you know how those stories are.
Shot a couple large goats that were loose tearing up my property a couple years ago. There was 2 actually. Shot the first with 9mm 1911 with hornady critical defense at about 15-20 yards. He made it about 50 yards and died. Was a good clean shot, second goat caught a 9mm to the guts on the run and ran off. Ended up living.
Well a couple of weeks go by and the bastard comes back. Left a 12ga 870 in the garage with 00 buck just for him. Caught him at about 50 yards a few days later and locked him up dead right there with one shot. 00 buck is no joke.
Well a couple of weeks go by and the bastard comes back. Left a 12ga 870 in the garage with 00 buck just for him. Caught him at about 50 yards a few days later and locked him up dead right there with one shot. 00 buck is no joke.
Well, I don't have anything fancy being an old Elmer Keith type throwback. I have an Ithaca 12 gauge Deerslayer III with a fully rifled bull barrel that is parkerized. As for ammo I like Dixie Slugs, Dixie Tri-Ball II (12 ga. 3") load. Patterns with Tri-Ball II are very small compared to regular buckshot. Three .60 caliber non-expanding balls from Dixie Tri-Ball II (12 ga 3") shot from a rifled barrel. It weighs
The Dixie IXL-DGS is .730" and weighs 870 grs. non-expanding slug; it is a true Dangerous Game slug/bullet at 1200 FPS out of a 20 Inch barrel. Out of my 24" barrel its doing 1300FPS. Also the Lightfield IDS Commander Plus incorporates a 1 3/8 oz (600 grain) 73 caliber slug at 1700 FPS producing 3850 ft/lbs at the barrel. For you guys that have 12 gauges that can handle 3 1/2" shells you can always go with the Lightfield Commander IDS Plus 3 1/2" at 1890 FPS with a 600 grain controlled expansion slug. Warning it kills at both ends! HE, HE! Now all the above slugs will shatter engine blocks, penetrate walls, heavy muscle and bone. These are not for close fast combat but for special situations requiring either more range as in the Tri-Ball or more Penetration as against automobiles, against structures or against dangerous animals as stopping rounds. They turn an average 12 gauge into a whole different beast if you modify your shotgun so you can handle them.
The Dixie IXL-DGS is .730" and weighs 870 grs. non-expanding slug; it is a true Dangerous Game slug/bullet at 1200 FPS out of a 20 Inch barrel. Out of my 24" barrel its doing 1300FPS. Also the Lightfield IDS Commander Plus incorporates a 1 3/8 oz (600 grain) 73 caliber slug at 1700 FPS producing 3850 ft/lbs at the barrel. For you guys that have 12 gauges that can handle 3 1/2" shells you can always go with the Lightfield Commander IDS Plus 3 1/2" at 1890 FPS with a 600 grain controlled expansion slug. Warning it kills at both ends! HE, HE! Now all the above slugs will shatter engine blocks, penetrate walls, heavy muscle and bone. These are not for close fast combat but for special situations requiring either more range as in the Tri-Ball or more Penetration as against automobiles, against structures or against dangerous animals as stopping rounds. They turn an average 12 gauge into a whole different beast if you modify your shotgun so you can handle them.
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My self defense needs do not include shooting through engine blocks. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where I wouldn't be prosecuted for shooting at an engine block. In a normal home defense scenario, the collateral damage to my neighbors resulting from engine block incapacitation capability is unacceptable to me, so heavy slugs are out. 00 buck for me, but even then I am cognizant of what is behind a potential target.
I personally like No 4 buckshot. It is small enough that I don't worry about overpenetration as I live in an apartment. That said, I really don't think that you can beat an AR pistol with a 10.5 inch barrel, surefire or JP flash hider on it, (which really work well at killing flash) and a mag of 77 BTHP or if you are really worried about overpenetration, a mag of 55 gr varmint rounds. Put a trijicon MRO on it and leave it on for the next 5 years. If I am in a gunfight I prefer to have 30 rounds instead of 6. Sure 5.56 is smaller but I can shoot it faster.
I have patterned 20ga buck (#3 or #4 depending on brand) experimentally using a typical bird barrel and rifled choke tube, to see how much wider the pattern can be expanded. At 7-8yd, it opens up to about 4ft, roughly the width of hallway. My 20ga guns are semis (11-87 and Charles Day Semi) with 5 round capacity magazines. At that distance, it's like getting an entire 20rd magazine of 22LR dumped across the hallway instantaneously with each shot.
It's not conventional, but the wider pattern better ensures wounding; providing the option of getting a runaway apprehended when they seek medical aid. I would rather drive them off with a wide ranging double tap than have them bleeding out in my hallway. If they keep coming, another 3 quick semi shots will take some more fight out of them.
If time permits and the need arises, there's another 17rd of 9mm Hydra-Shok for the hip, with a second mag in a pocket that's a part of the holster.
I don't want them dead, I want them gone somewhere else where LE can find them when they seek medical help. I suspect that five rounds with 100+ pellets of #3/#4 at a semi-auto firing cadence may be very persuasive.
It's what I have, it's not offered as advice, but as an alternative option.
Greg
It's not conventional, but the wider pattern better ensures wounding; providing the option of getting a runaway apprehended when they seek medical aid. I would rather drive them off with a wide ranging double tap than have them bleeding out in my hallway. If they keep coming, another 3 quick semi shots will take some more fight out of them.
If time permits and the need arises, there's another 17rd of 9mm Hydra-Shok for the hip, with a second mag in a pocket that's a part of the holster.
I don't want them dead, I want them gone somewhere else where LE can find them when they seek medical help. I suspect that five rounds with 100+ pellets of #3/#4 at a semi-auto firing cadence may be very persuasive.
It's what I have, it's not offered as advice, but as an alternative option.
Greg
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There are plenty of reasons why someone might use a shotgun for home defense. Some reasons make sense, some are goofy as hell. While a 410 single shot loaded with #9 shot wouldn't be my first choice, I wouldn't want to get shot with it. Maybe a single shot 410 is what Uncle Barney left in the house before he disappeared, and it is the only gun in the house.
Sure, there are better, and worse choices, but that can be said for just about any firearm as there will always be disagreement over what is the "perfect" home defense weapon.
Sure, there are better, and worse choices, but that can be said for just about any firearm as there will always be disagreement over what is the "perfect" home defense weapon.
Herters Multi-Defense seems like a proper home defense 12 ga. shell. Contains 1 .65 lead ball , followed by 6 #1 buck
Inside a room even bird shot is going to hit in one mass blowing a bloody rat hole in any perp. Having seen the "death book" for the Galveston County Sheriffs Dept. containing every murder and suicide recorded in Galveston County, Texas. It contains all the photos of the post-mortem examination of those who died to determine cause of death. From .22LR, shotgun blasts, high powered rifle rounds, to even suicide by a stick of dynamite in the mouth. I took crime scene investigation at post graduate level and it helps to understand the fine points of what different weapons and different ammo does to the human body. Having a STRONG stomach helps but that comes over time as I nearly passed out witnessing my first autopsy. Some never develop it and can't handle a bloody scene. Some people can function under high stress situations from the jump and some can learn to. Some people just freeze up. One must develop their Combat Mindset BEFORE they possibly confront a gun fight life or death situation! There are a number of good books on the subject some developed for the military. The thing is you have to decide you are willing to kill, way before you inter into a situation where such an action will be a necessity. If you do not you will hesitate resulting in your death, and/or your family or friends death. That is a proven FACT. It is all well and good to talk macho but it is a grave ugly thing to kill someone and to live with it especially when you are looking them in the eyes.
Check out the books below of which I have a number of my own copies:
On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace - https://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psych..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=G9YZR7S2ZQWRE0W5E9XM
Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense
Stressfire, Vol. 1 (Gunfighting for Police: Advanced Tactics and Techniques) Fourth Edition Edition
Stressfire II: Advanced Combat Shotgun
Straight Talk on Armed Defense: What the Experts Want You to Know
The Tactical Shotgun: The Best Techniques and Tactics for Employing the Shotgun in Personal Combat
Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition
How To Choose Self Defense Ammunition (Cunningham Grant)
21st-Century Stopping Power: What Works, What Doesn't, and Why
Street Stoppers: The Latest Handgun Stopping Power Street Results
Handgun Stopping Power: The Definitive Study
Fight at Night: Tools, Techniques, Tactics, and Training for Combat in Low Light and Darkness
Check out the books below of which I have a number of my own copies:
On Combat, The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace - https://www.amazon.com/Combat-Psych..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=G9YZR7S2ZQWRE0W5E9XM
Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense
Stressfire, Vol. 1 (Gunfighting for Police: Advanced Tactics and Techniques) Fourth Edition Edition
Stressfire II: Advanced Combat Shotgun
Straight Talk on Armed Defense: What the Experts Want You to Know
The Tactical Shotgun: The Best Techniques and Tactics for Employing the Shotgun in Personal Combat
Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition
How To Choose Self Defense Ammunition (Cunningham Grant)
21st-Century Stopping Power: What Works, What Doesn't, and Why
Street Stoppers: The Latest Handgun Stopping Power Street Results
Handgun Stopping Power: The Definitive Study
Fight at Night: Tools, Techniques, Tactics, and Training for Combat in Low Light and Darkness
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To me if you are using a smooth bore riot gun style shotgun the 2 3/4" tactical 00 buck load is one of the best for self-defense. It is not a full power load but maximizes back on target times with a lot of stopping power. To each his own though.
The only relevant experience I have in this was witnessing a near point-blank shot of 12 gauge #6 shot to my father's friend's leg. When I was eight, my dad took me with him while his friends went on a day hunt. They were going for pheasants, if my memory serves me correctly. They usually left me alone with my trusty Ruger 10/22 and a brick of ammo while they went out into the fields to hunt. On this day, they had come back with quite the number of birds. My dad's friend went to get his camera in his truck, and in doing so, leaned his shotgun against the front fender. When he closed the driver side door, the shotgun fell and somehow fired right into his left leg after bouncing off the ground. The shot hit him about 50/50 in the boot (basically, the top two inches of boot leather) and his calf. I was standing at the front of the truck counting the pheasants, and my dad was on the other side of the truck grabbing food or something.
Initially, my dad thought I was hit, so the first thing he did was lay me down to see if I'd been hit. That's when his friend hit the ground. Long story short, his leg looked like hamburger, but no major damage. His ankle was protected by the boot, and only a few pellets made it through. Where the boot ended, it looked like someone had just plopped on raw burger patties, I saw a clearing of bone in one small area while we poured water on it to get the dirt off. At the hospital, the doctor said he was very lucky to have not done more damage. As a kid, I wasn't sure how he could have been any less lucky for that to have happened, but it could have been worse, I guess. He was about two paces from the muzzle from when it went off. He walks with a cane now, nearly 30 years later, but hasn't skipped a beat.
I do have a shotgun in the house for defense, but have 000 buck in it. I'm not sure I could trust bird shot to do enough to put a man down these days, and if it ever came to defending our home with our kids in it, both my wife and I agree that we aren't looking to stop at wounding. No chances need to be taken there.
Jerry
Initially, my dad thought I was hit, so the first thing he did was lay me down to see if I'd been hit. That's when his friend hit the ground. Long story short, his leg looked like hamburger, but no major damage. His ankle was protected by the boot, and only a few pellets made it through. Where the boot ended, it looked like someone had just plopped on raw burger patties, I saw a clearing of bone in one small area while we poured water on it to get the dirt off. At the hospital, the doctor said he was very lucky to have not done more damage. As a kid, I wasn't sure how he could have been any less lucky for that to have happened, but it could have been worse, I guess. He was about two paces from the muzzle from when it went off. He walks with a cane now, nearly 30 years later, but hasn't skipped a beat.
I do have a shotgun in the house for defense, but have 000 buck in it. I'm not sure I could trust bird shot to do enough to put a man down these days, and if it ever came to defending our home with our kids in it, both my wife and I agree that we aren't looking to stop at wounding. No chances need to be taken there.
Jerry
Seriously, about the best you can get is the Hornady TAP 00. Sacrifices one pellet for much higher velocity, 1700fps IIRC, and it also has reduced recoil compared to Federal 00 2.75 mags but a little more recoil than the Winchester LE reduced recoil 00. These shells have that same Federal Flite Control Wad that everyone goes on about. And for good reason, these printed a nice desert or salad plate size pattern at 25m with all shot evenly spread over a consistent area using a 16"bbl. I tested probably twenty something different shells, different brands, shot size, etc., and of all of them, these performed the best overall, and 00 is commonly associated as being a manstopper. These shells are also available. Steer clear of mixed shot, shot and slug, etc., none of them ever made a decent pattern. These TAP 00 will make a fist or saucer size pattern at most SD ranges and maintain that perfectly distributed pattern, and that's about perfect, especially when it's hauling ass at 1700fps, that's about 300-400fps faster than most 00.
The next best thing would, some may say the first best thing, would be the reduced recoil slugs. If you like 'em, you can always put 'em in a side saddle to load up if need be. 000 is nice I think, but it always comes in hard recoiling magnum shells. Follow ups are much slower with hard recoiling ammo and some reduced recoil ammo doesn't give much up or even gains, like the TAP 00. With slugs for HD, the reduced recoil are all that's needed given the weight of the slug. .70cal 1oz. hollowpoint rifled slug moving at 960fps is more that sufficient, especially if you can have another on tap in a second or two. Or several 00's moving at 1700fps., take your pick. Just stay away from gimmicks and powerful hunting loads unless you don't give a shit about penetration, your walls and shit, and have no neighbors.
For self defense, you kinda want to try and keep the recoil down the best you can because follow up shots can be critical and sometimes it's better to put two lighter shells on target than one magnum shell. Or what if there's two or more bad guys? IF recoil isn't a problem, the Winchester XX 3" #4 buck with what, 42 pellets per shell? That one is fucking brutal and one square shot with that and it's over. You'll feel it too.
You really can't go wrong with ammo selection for a shotgun, but you do wanna keep it #1 buck or heavier; #4 isn't bad either. That birdshot shit doesn't always work and I wouldn't bet my life on that. Stay away from mixed shot or buck and ball unless it's loaded right, you've tested it and it's consistent and tight. Doubt you'll find that, I didn't. Mine is now like a Shockwave, just a breacher (and I'll probably never breach another door again in my life) so mostly for fucking around I guess. Suppose you could still use it up close.
That said, I use a suppressed .300BLK SBR with 125's. It's perfect. Unless you can have an SBS, I see more limited use with one indoors. A 5.56 SBR is nice too, but you can make it shorter with the .300BLK and not lose much in velocity, especially at HD ranges. But I also use an alarm and have warning time enough to rack the rifle and turn all the shit on. A set of soft armor handy isn't a bad idea either, something you can just pull over your head fast. If you have time.
The next best thing would, some may say the first best thing, would be the reduced recoil slugs. If you like 'em, you can always put 'em in a side saddle to load up if need be. 000 is nice I think, but it always comes in hard recoiling magnum shells. Follow ups are much slower with hard recoiling ammo and some reduced recoil ammo doesn't give much up or even gains, like the TAP 00. With slugs for HD, the reduced recoil are all that's needed given the weight of the slug. .70cal 1oz. hollowpoint rifled slug moving at 960fps is more that sufficient, especially if you can have another on tap in a second or two. Or several 00's moving at 1700fps., take your pick. Just stay away from gimmicks and powerful hunting loads unless you don't give a shit about penetration, your walls and shit, and have no neighbors.
For self defense, you kinda want to try and keep the recoil down the best you can because follow up shots can be critical and sometimes it's better to put two lighter shells on target than one magnum shell. Or what if there's two or more bad guys? IF recoil isn't a problem, the Winchester XX 3" #4 buck with what, 42 pellets per shell? That one is fucking brutal and one square shot with that and it's over. You'll feel it too.
You really can't go wrong with ammo selection for a shotgun, but you do wanna keep it #1 buck or heavier; #4 isn't bad either. That birdshot shit doesn't always work and I wouldn't bet my life on that. Stay away from mixed shot or buck and ball unless it's loaded right, you've tested it and it's consistent and tight. Doubt you'll find that, I didn't. Mine is now like a Shockwave, just a breacher (and I'll probably never breach another door again in my life) so mostly for fucking around I guess. Suppose you could still use it up close.
That said, I use a suppressed .300BLK SBR with 125's. It's perfect. Unless you can have an SBS, I see more limited use with one indoors. A 5.56 SBR is nice too, but you can make it shorter with the .300BLK and not lose much in velocity, especially at HD ranges. But I also use an alarm and have warning time enough to rack the rifle and turn all the shit on. A set of soft armor handy isn't a bad idea either, something you can just pull over your head fast. If you have time.
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I’ve been a fan of #4 buck for alot
Of years. I always have atleast a 1000 rounds on hand of it. I’ve shot more coyotes than I can remember with it along with a couple deer for a local warden. Within a home I’d think it would be as good as anything else and sure as hell wouldn’t want to break into a home guarded by it.
Of years. I always have atleast a 1000 rounds on hand of it. I’ve shot more coyotes than I can remember with it along with a couple deer for a local warden. Within a home I’d think it would be as good as anything else and sure as hell wouldn’t want to break into a home guarded by it.
I’ve been a fan of #4 buck for alot
Of years. I always have atleast a 1000 rounds on hand of it. I’ve shot more coyotes than I can remember with it along with a couple deer for a local warden. Within a home I’d think it would be as good as anything else and sure as hell wouldn’t want to break into a home guarded by it.
Of years. I always have atleast a 1000 rounds on hand of it. I’ve shot more coyotes than I can remember with it along with a couple deer for a local warden. Within a home I’d think it would be as good as anything else and sure as hell wouldn’t want to break into a home guarded by it.
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