Should All Traces of the Confederacy Be Gone?

[j-huskey]

If our woke black population wants to eradicate any reference to the confederacy, or eliminate LE, so shall it be. Thank you sirs, may I have another?

So, in the coming utopia, who plays the Serbians, the Bosniaks, the Kosovars, and the Croatians ?
And what U.N. peacekeeping force gets to bomb the new Serbians until they sit down in Seattle to the peace accords ?
Just askin.... kinda like just sayin..

Wondering who thinks up this madness. And PROFITS from it....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think that a society that destroys its history, for starters, will eventually end up eating its children.

History actually bears this out.

But then, those folks will never know that, will they?

That's because the past is never all soft and comfy; unless you weed out those nasty parts and burn the books they're in.

History bears that out, too; but...

 

[Rthur]

Love being lectured by a Brit that drags in every fascist org or name he can drop including Hitler.

Only good points were to place statues for the black congressman and aviatrix.

Everything else was shit.

Word.

R

 

[jerryrva]

CNN wasted airtime this morning interviewing some guy who started a petition to rename the city of Plantation Florida. At some point we must stop growing cotton in USA as it will bring up the painful memory of slaves working the fields.

 

[Redmanss]

CNN wasted airtime this morning interviewing some guy who started a petition to rename the city of Plantation Florida. At some point we must stop growing cotton in USA as it will bring up the painful memory of slaves working the fields.

The city of Plantation didn’t even exist until 1953, and has never had a plantation in it for its entire existence.

 

[pmclaine]

Rhode Island is officially "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations"

Can we get rid of it?

 

[Redmanss]

Rhode Island is officially "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations"

Can we get rid of it?

Only if we trade it for Upper Michigan statehood.

 

[pmclaine]

Only if we trade it for Upper Michigan statehood.

How about any population center of greater than 5 million gets separated from the rest of its state.

The rest of the state gets its own representation.

 

[RTH1800]

It’s not about the monuments. It’s about erasing history and re writing it in black. It’s about power and control. It’s about cash.

We are in a race war but only one side is fighting.

 

[Redmanss]

How about any population center of greater than 5 million gets separated from the rest of its state.

The rest of the state gets its own representation.

I don't want to give the cities that much congressional representation.

 

[pmclaine]

I don't want to give the cities that much congressional representation.

Your right.

Lets just ask them which country has the government system they prefer and deport them.

 

[pmclaine]

It’s not about the monuments. It’s about erasing history and re writing it in black. It’s about power and control. It’s about cash.

We are in a race war but only one side is fighting.

Charlie Manson is saying.....

 

[Aries256]

No, next!

 

[plong]

Fuck no . I'm a born and bread yankee . The Condederate soldiers are American and deserving of all the respect and honors afforded any US serviceman or Vet . In fact isn't there a law on the books stating that thereby making these desecrations illegal .

NO!!! The Confederacy was an Open Rebellion against The United States of America!!! We do all get that, RIGHT?

 

[canman]

Rename Ft.Bragg...Ft.Bragg. A couple other good ones too. Ft. Benavidez wouldn't be bad but renaming it Ft. Bragg would really stick it to these assholes
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeuPrMDL8RXQol8y2aLad9UGCbPrpCNM19SGcUdPEExjOiXvA/viewform

 

[EddieNFL]

Yes...and no one ever gets to mention slavery again.

 

[theLBC]

Yes...and no one ever gets to mention slavery again.

democrats are erasing their own history or racism and slavery....down the memory hole just like their creation of the KKK.

 

[Maggot]

I never understood the naming of places/streets/buildings after Confederates. They renounced their US Citizenship and fought against us. A lot of more deserving heroes should be considered in renaming US bases. Statues I can see if they are a public park, and there is some connection with the confederate person, like Gen Stonewall Jackson at Manassass Battlefield Park. He did fight there, and earned his nickname there. But how many statues were build long after the Civil War?

I tend to agree, but feel theres no need to go overboard. Im distantly related to R E Lee on my mother's side of the family. As far as I'm concerned,, he forsook his oath of allegiance to the US and fought against it (for whatever reason). I have a number of black friends here in the Charlottesville area and Ive asked them about the statue that stands lording over one of the main parks in the center of town. I just ask simply "Does it offend you?" Almost to the man (or woman) they'll say..."Only if I stop and think about it, yeah it does. I dont waste my time thinking about it much, but yeah, it does." These are educated, hard working, generally conservative leaning folks. To me, I have no problem (respectfully) removing Robert's statue to a place like Gettysburg or Appomattox. Thats not 'Changing history." history IS WHAT IT IS. But removing the statue, to me is much like removing a Swastika someone put up in Skokie Ill. (a predominantly Jewish area). Its showing a level of respect to my fellow man. Fuck, you put a (Nazi ..there are other types) swastika up around where I live and Ill make certain its taken down even if I have to go to jail for doing it. My father, and his generation paid too high a price to allow that shit to fly. Literally.

On the other hand, the idiot liberals here made a huge issue out of renaming 'Preston Avenue' named for a slave holder, and changing it to 'Preston Avenue' named after a black man. Triple facepalm.

Like with anything else, use some fucking common sense and compassion for your fellow man. The world will be a better place for it.

Just in case ya'll think Im soft on this, let me add, emphatically:

FUCK BLM AND THEIR MARXIST GARBAGE.

 

[Maggot]

Rename Ft.Bragg...Ft.Bragg. A couple other good ones too. Ft. Benavidez wouldn't be bad but renaming it Ft. Bragg would really stick it to these assholes
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeuPrMDL8RXQol8y2aLad9UGCbPrpCNM19SGcUdPEExjOiXvA/viewform

Fort Benavidez has a nice ring to it. They dont come any tougher than Roy Benavidez.

 

[tomcatmv]

IMO opinion Robert E. Lee was a very honorable man and believed he owed his allegiance to Virginia more than the Union (a State's right thing). He was also one of the best military commanders this republic has ever fielded.
It offends me greatly all these statue removals. My family ancestors fought in the French and Indian war, the Revolution and had some on both sides of the Civil war as we are german/scots/welsh and a few members moved to Kentucky after the whiskey rebellion in PA.
Some a-holes tried recently to re-name our Confederate Park here in Belton TX. Didn't go over well.

 

[Maggot]

IMO opinion Robert E. Lee was a very honorable man and believed he owed his allegiance to Virginia more than the Union (a State's right thing). He was also one of the best military commanders this republic has ever fielded.
It offends me greatly all these statue removals. My family ancestors fought in the French and Indian war, the Revolution and had some on both sides of the Civil war as we are german/scots/welsh and a few members moved to Kentucky after the whiskey rebellion in PA.
Some a-holes tried recently to re-name our Confederate Park here in Belton TX. Didn't go over well.

FWIW, I didnt say he wasnt honorable. After the war he did a lot of good around Lexington. In fact Washington and Lee University was named after him. He made a choice.

My one issue is that it disrespects a certain element of our society. Want to see a statue of a civil War general? go to a Civil War park. There are many.

 

[Sandhog308]

This thread goes back awhile. This is my next door neighbor , literally !
When he isn’t on Bridge Watch , I am ..... I ALWAYS seem to get the Mid Shitter Watch ...he has Senority We have each others backs though ....I hope

 

[Californio]

So many Native American Tribes, I believe 5, were run out of the Southern States by the founder of the Democrap Party, Andrew Jackson, its called the Trail of Tears, when are the Snowflakes going to own up to that fact?

 

[Chaotic Good]

NO!!! The Confederacy was an Open Rebellion against The United States of America!!! We do all get that, RIGHT?

America was an open rebellion against the British crown. Is there point to your statement?

 

[plong]

America was an open rebellion against the British crown. Is there point to your statement?

Um, yeah (re. “is there a point…”) one group, wishing to establish its independence from another… succeeding… and willingly suffering the consequences (and reaping whatever benefits there may have been) thereof, versus one that failed… badly… and IMHO, rightfully so. Do you think Washington’s soldiers would have been recognized as deserving “all respect and honors” due soldiers who served the crown, had they failed…? Yeah… good luck with that…!
Oh, and by the way: the winners get to write the history books… , sorry if that stings a bit…!

 

[Mwalex]

Nope, needs no more comment than that.

 

[thejeep]

hell fucking no!

 

[Chaotic Good]

Um, yeah (re. “is there a point…”) one group, wishing to establish its independence from another… succeeding… and willingly suffering the consequences (and reaping whatever benefits there may have been) thereof, versus one that failed… badly… and IMHO, rightfully so. Do you think Washington’s soldiers would have been recognized as deserving “all respect and honors” due soldiers who served the crown, had they failed…? Yeah… good luck with that…!
Oh, and by the way: the winners get to write the history books… , sorry if that stings a bit…!

So for you might makes right. Got it.

 

[plong]

So for you might makes right. Got it.

“Right” makes right, which IMHO, applies to the winning team in both instances! YMMV, of course… “South gonna rise again…?”.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Democrats trying to erase the evidence that the south, who wanted slavery to continue, was run by democrats. So they've started a movement with dis-information and tried to paint the southern democrats of the 1800's as the equivalent of modern republicans. What's sad is that they are succeeding since they've taken over public education and done their best to make kids a dumb as they are.

Just my opinion on the matter anyway.

Branden

There is truth to the Southern Democrats being very conservative and the Republican Party being quite liberal.Prior too and after the Civil War. This has nothing to do with the current education system, as poor As it is.

After the turn of the 20th Century Theodore Roosevelt, a very liberal leader and a Republican, left he Presidency at the end of his first full term saying he was not going to run again. Unfortunately, his protege bungled many of Roosevelt‘s planned reforms which led Roosevelt to again seek nomination by the Republicans. He narrowly lost the nomination and left the Republican Party to form the Progressive Party known popularly as the Bull Moose Party. The Progressive Party pulled a large percentage of the very liberal members out of the Republican Party. In the following presidential election, Roosevelt actually finished ahead of Taft but both fell widely behind Woodrow Wilson, (in my opinion a president that gives the current fellow a run for the money as the least capable, most incompetent, biggest liar to ever walk in the halls of the White House, but I digress)

The Progressive Party did its best to continue even though there was an effort to reconsolidate it back into the Republican party. However Roosevelt refused to run as a Republican and the effort failed. This left the more conservative members of the Republican Party in control of that party and the liberal members, refusing to rejoin the Republicans, eventually moved over to the Democratic Party, leading that party to became the liberal party and the Republicans the Rich, Staid, Conservatives.

Now, even the most liberal members of the Democratic Party were very conservative in the years when I was growing up. The real transformation developed when Hubert Humphrey failed to win the election of 1968 and the news media began to take a very liberal stance, ignoring the truth to promote its ideas of society and national politics. (See walter cronkite crying crocodile tears over John Kennedy’s death then not long after lying to the American Public about our solid victory over the Viet Cong at the Tet Offensive, decrying one of John Kennedy’s signature programs, eradicating communism.)

So, in my studies going back into the 60’s and 70’s this is a very short version of the changing of the two political party’s ideology.

A decent description of the events can be found on this Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)

Written by
Willard O. Kirste Jr. BA History LA Tech. 1977, Masters Education 2007 ULM.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

How about any population center of greater than 5 million gets separated from the rest of its state.

The rest of the state gets its own representation.

I have been saying this for years. It is a splendid idea. It allows real representation of the people who do not live in a large city. They may again be able to govern themselves.

 

[plong]

And… Just to clarify my viewpoint re. the topic at hand (Confederate Statues), do we all recognize that most (all…?) were constructed well after the turn of the 20th century, and had little to do with honoring their respective subjects, and more to do with furthering a rather insidious political undercurrent still festering in certain segments…?

 

[10ring'r]

Nope! Enough said. Which reminds me, gotta walk Gettysburg again, for the 4th time. Mac

 

[pmclaine]

And… Just to clarify my viewpoint re. the topic at hand (Confederate Statues), do we all recognize that most (all…?) were constructed well after the turn of the 20th century, and had little to do with honoring their respective subjects, and more to do with furthering a rather insidious political undercurrent still festering in certain segments…?

AND do you realize who the party was that funded those statues?

Hint...it wasnt the Party of Lincoln.

 

[plong]

AND do you realize who the party was that funded those statues?

Hint...it wasnt the Party of Lincoln.

Please do not ascribe any of my statements to be an endorsement of any particular political party, the current versions of which bear absolutely no resemblance to their respective versions from that time period.

P.S. I‘m unconvinced that is true in the all or nothing sense conveyed, but I’m willing to learn… gonna have to do some further research, as that’s inconsistent with my current understanding.

 

[pmclaine]

the current versions of which bear absolutely no resemblance to their respective versions from that time period.

Oh but they do....only problem is now they both look very similar.

 

[plong]

Oh but they do....only problem is now they both look very similar.

You and I agree more than we disagree, but that statement, in and of itself, reeks of contradiction (IMHO, of course… )

 

[Chaotic Good]

“Right” makes right, which IMHO, applies to the winning team in both instances! YMMV, of course… “South gonna rise again…?”.

I don't have time for this, so you do you.

The lesson I get from the Civil War is driving past cemeteries most days. Lines of tombstones from the last time Americans couldn't live together in peace. The dead know the truth. No amount of idiocy on the interwebs, or might makes right, or cowardly despotism can rewrite their history.

The title of this thread is "Should All Traces of the Confederacy Be Gone?" The very notion is moronic. If this was done, what story would be told? That men died by the thousands to defeat...nothing? An empty void? That the reason the Civil War was fought was: {insert what ever fuckery modern day assholes want to project onto the past to justify todays fuckery}?

Or is this current fetish to silence the voices of the past just to cover up truths that are inconvenient for the loathsome would be despots of today? That men on both side fought for their principles and convictions. Fought for their state. For their hearth and home. Fought for many reasons written in words that we can still read today in their writings and letters home. If we want to spend the time and listen.

It seems that people today have forgotten that those men fought each other, but in the end they made peace. They came to live with one another again, even if there were grudges.

Some love to scream "TRAITORS!!!" towards those that fought for the CSA. Seeming to forget how many were pardoned, or perhaps more importantly how few were not pardoned. If these men are once and always traitors, then explain Joe Wheeler to me.

I am not going to take sides. I live the world that is the legacy of those men, all of them, north and south. It's not my place to judge these men, and I think it is presumptuous of anyone a century and half after the fact to do so.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[plong]

No time, but seven, or eight, or however many paragraphs that was (punctuation and spacing lost me after a bit…).

My original post in this thread was made in response to, and to challenge, the message conveyed in particular post by another member. It was not a broad-brush commentary on the entirety of the original question posed by this thread. You’ve made several attempts to refute that response using logic that wouldn’t prevail in a seventh grade debate class, but “you do you”…

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

"History" is often just some hogwash written down later by some pencilneck who wasn't there. The secessionists tried to destroy the United States. They were traitors, pricipally beacuse the lost the war, a war they started. The men that were in charge were all lucky they weren't all hung after the war. I would not have any problem renaming Ft. Benning to the name of any MOH VN vet.

You are an idiot and don't have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Rthur]

Question.
What has been the result of all the previous governments that did this?

R

 

[Flintdog2011]

"History" is often just some hogwash written down later by some pencilneck who wasn't there. The secessionists tried to destroy the United States. They were traitors, pricipally beacuse the lost the war, a war they started. The men that were in charge were all lucky they weren't all hung after the war. I would not have any problem renaming Ft. Benning to the name of any MOH VN vet.

They didn’t try to destroy the United States, they tried to leave the United States because the United States government was acting very similar to the way the United States government is acting right now. The United States government invaded the Confederate States repeatedly, only once did the Confederacy invade the North, so piss off with your uneducated rant

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

The divisions on this topic are a microcosm of why wars are fought when we can't sit down and work it out. Slavery was horrible but it was not the only reason the civil war was fought. Economics played a huge part. The North did not want the South to develop its warm-water ports that would have resulted in a shift of influence (think power). The other issue, among others, was/is state's rights. Reconstruction was nothing more than punishment of the South. Lincoln's assassin was a tragedy on many levels. Seems we are still at odds over many of those issues.

I do have one question: When all of the statues are gone, all of the streets renamed, and all of the bases renamed, and the critical issues remain, who/what will be the new target?

Someone who actually knows what they are talking about here... JWB hurt our country deeply when he killed Lincoln. ALL wars are fought over money and power. ALL of them, the War of Northern Aggression was no different. WE. "The USA" , are the ones who lead the world in ending Slavery , a several Thousand year old practice across the world. We Ended it.

We have plenty of horrid things in our past, slavery chief among them, but we have a hell of a lot of remarkable things too. We should know the truth of history as a society. By this thread and nearly everywhere else you look, it's painfully obvious that we do not. This lack of knowing our history, is directly responsible for much of what we suffer from today.

 

[Chaotic Good]

Someone who actually knows what they are talking about here... JWB hurt our country deeply when he killed Lincoln. ALL wars are fought over money and power. ALL of them, the War of Northern Aggression was no different. WE. "The USA" , are the ones who lead the world in ending Slavery , a several Thousand year old practice across the world. We Ended it.

We have plenty of horrid things in our past, slavery chief among them, but we have a hell of a lot of remarkable things too. We should know the truth of history as a society. By this thread and nearly everywhere else you look, it's painfully obvious that we do not. This lack of knowing our history, is directly responsible for much of what we suffer from today.

I think you will find that Britain ended slavery prior to the the Civil War. (as in the type of plantation slavery that Americans think of) and that other nations continued the practice for some time afterwards.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I think you will find that Britain ended slavery prior to the the Civil War. (as in the type of plantation slavery that Americans think of) and that other nations continued the practice for some time afterwards.

America is who lead the ending of slavery is my point, and it was only because America ended it, that it ended around the globe in civilized nations. I believe you are referring to passage of law concerning "the slave trade" which made it illegal to trade in slaves. ( slavery still goes on today of course). Nit picking what constitutes slavery isn't something I'm going to get into, making people work without pay or for ridiculously low pay is slavery. My point is that America has made numerous awesom contributions to this world, and we have done some downright horrible things too. We as a Nation, should be very knowledgeable about BOTH, and we are knowledgeable about neither. What "history" most think they know isn't even real, it's a teacher's unions made up garbage, and even that is minimal.

 

[Chaotic Good]

America is who lead the ending of slavery is my point, and it was only because America ended it, that it ended around the globe in civilized nations. I believe you are referring to passage of law concerning "the slave trade" which made it illegal to trade in slaves. ( slavery still goes on today of course). Nit picking what constitutes slavery isn't something I'm going to get into, making people work without pay or for ridiculously low pay is slavery. My point is that America has made numerous awesom contributions to this world, and we have done some downright horrible things too. We as a Nation, should be very knowledgeable about BOTH, and we are knowledgeable about neither. What "history" most think they know isn't even real, it's a teacher's unions made up garbage, and even that is minimal.

No. I am not referring to acts ending the slave trade from Africa. I am referring to the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833, and the Slave Compensation Act of 1837. and The Indian Slave Act of 1843. Britain ended slavery before the USA.

I believe France ended slavery in 1848.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

No. I am not referring to acts ending the slave trade from Africa. I am referring to the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833, and the Slave Compensation Act of 1837. and The Indian Slave Act of 1843. Britain ended slavery before the USA.

I believe France ended slavery in 1848.

I'm not saying the USA past laws first in the world. Getting rich off slavery , owning slaves, is all the same. This was all in the same time period, and none of that is my point. Congrats on Google, but that's not the point here. How about this "the USA was among the first of the global powers to end slavery" but England who made the slave trade possible and got massive wealth off it, past the first law. Happy? England has also contributed great things to this world, and they also had a Massive role in the whole slave trade. Yet, we don't continually focus on Englands slave trade do we? This is the point.

 

[Chaotic Good]

I'm not saying the USA past laws first in the world. Getting rich off slavery , owning slaves, is all the same. This was all in the same time period, and none of that is my point. Congrats on Google, but that's not the point here. How about this "the USA was among the first of the global powers to end slavery" but England who made the slave trade possible and got massive wealth off it, past the first law. Happy? England has also contributed great things to this world, and they also had a Massive role in the whole slave trade. Yet, we don't continually focus on Englands slave trade do we? This is the point.

I don't think it is accurate to call the US a global power mid 19th century.

We don't continually focus on the British slave trade. Why not? Why not the French, the Spanish, the Portuguese? What about the Barbary Corsairs, or the other Arab slave traders? What about the Africans that traded in slaves?

We don't talk about how many Northerners (and the British) benefited from Southern slavery. Where was all that cotton going? Where were the mills that made that cotton into cloth? How much money were those mills making? Why don't we talk about that?

Many people seem to think that the point of the US Civil War was to end slavery. If other nations ended slavery without such bloodshed, then why was fighting a war where hundreds of thousands died to end slavery a good thing?

So what is your point? I am confused.

 

[Californio]

Large slave rebellions broke out in West Demerara in 1795 and on the East Coast of Demerara in 1823.[34] Although these rebellions were easily and bloodily crushed, according to Winston McGowan, they may have had a long-term impact in ending slavery:

The 1823 revolt had a special significance not matched by the earlier Berbice uprising. It attracted attention in Britain inside and outside Parliament to the terrible evil slavery and the need to abolish it. This played a part, along with other humanitarian, political and economic factors, in causing the British parliament ten years later in 1833 to take the momentous decision to abolish slavery in British Guiana and elsewhere in the British Empire with effect from 1 August 1834. After serving four years of a modified form of slavery euphemistically called apprenticeship, the slaves were finally freed on 1 August 1838.

 

[Flintdog2011]

NO!!! The Confederacy was an Open Rebellion against The United States of America!!! We do all get that, RIGHT?

Nope, it was a secession. The United States turned it into a rebellion