Should All Traces of the Confederacy Be Gone?
- Thread starter jerryrva
- Start date
under false pretenses, the British drew us into WW1 - which directly caused WW2. They have never been our friends.
Doesn't any of this sound familiar?
If it doesn't, it's because we're not teaching our youth history anymore; we're teaching them propaganda.
The only creature filthier than a propagandist is a corrupted teacher.
Greg
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An emphatic "no."
While the views of the Southern Democrats who perpetuated Slave Culture and started the Civil War should never be celebrated or turned into some kind of 'antebellum Disney World' that never existed.
That said, at the end of the Civil War, the Union accepted its lost southern brethren back into society with 'absence of malice... ' and we all became Americans again. In addition, we accepted that some four million enslaved men, women and children became Americans. Well, most accepted that. Southern Democrats certainly didn't... but that's another story.
The short version is that the Civil War made America. It also took 100 years for Southern Democrats to accept the outcome. But now, some 55 years after Civil Rights legislation finally pulled the rug out of racist Democrats who created Jim Crow, Grandfather laws... The Klan... we MUST look back and recognize that the Confederacy was an important part of our history. Its existence was a testament to how nasty some political parties can be when it comes to racism, statism and a willingness to kill off a million people to keep an entire race in chains.
It also must be remembered that millions of Southern Confederate soldiers fought with honor, valor and vigor... not to protect slavery. But to protect their natural rights, which they equated with the rights of their states in the face of a Distant Capitol that they felt was trying to remove their rights... not to own slaves... few did. But to determine their own destiny as a state.
Today, Federal over-reach is a legacy of the Civil War. Recognizing History (and how we got here) is how we make sure we stay together as a nation. If that's still possible.
Erase the Confederacy? The only people who want to do that are the people who want to erase the fact that THEIR political party was behind the deaths of three-quarters of a million men in the Civil War. In an effort to keep 4 million in chains. And that they perpetuated virtual slavery for another 100 years... with night riders, church bombings and the killing of civil right workers right into my own lifetime...
The Confederacy MUST be preserved for study... understanding and recognition that it WAS what made America a better place today. Celebrated? No... Not in my opinion. But preserved. 100 percent.
Sirhr
While the views of the Southern Democrats who perpetuated Slave Culture and started the Civil War should never be celebrated or turned into some kind of 'antebellum Disney World' that never existed.
That said, at the end of the Civil War, the Union accepted its lost southern brethren back into society with 'absence of malice... ' and we all became Americans again. In addition, we accepted that some four million enslaved men, women and children became Americans. Well, most accepted that. Southern Democrats certainly didn't... but that's another story.
The short version is that the Civil War made America. It also took 100 years for Southern Democrats to accept the outcome. But now, some 55 years after Civil Rights legislation finally pulled the rug out of racist Democrats who created Jim Crow, Grandfather laws... The Klan... we MUST look back and recognize that the Confederacy was an important part of our history. Its existence was a testament to how nasty some political parties can be when it comes to racism, statism and a willingness to kill off a million people to keep an entire race in chains.
It also must be remembered that millions of Southern Confederate soldiers fought with honor, valor and vigor... not to protect slavery. But to protect their natural rights, which they equated with the rights of their states in the face of a Distant Capitol that they felt was trying to remove their rights... not to own slaves... few did. But to determine their own destiny as a state.
Today, Federal over-reach is a legacy of the Civil War. Recognizing History (and how we got here) is how we make sure we stay together as a nation. If that's still possible.
Erase the Confederacy? The only people who want to do that are the people who want to erase the fact that THEIR political party was behind the deaths of three-quarters of a million men in the Civil War. In an effort to keep 4 million in chains. And that they perpetuated virtual slavery for another 100 years... with night riders, church bombings and the killing of civil right workers right into my own lifetime...
The Confederacy MUST be preserved for study... understanding and recognition that it WAS what made America a better place today. Celebrated? No... Not in my opinion. But preserved. 100 percent.
Sirhr
The only thing I kinda disagree with is...
The Democrats didn't except the outcome. They were already scheming the "Great Society". I dare say that single piece has enslaved more blacks, and whites, than were ever purchased on the auction block.
Why would a party that made up the bulk of the confederate army want to tear down
confederate statues?
R
confederate statues?
R
I'm not sure what your point is here. What does WWI have to do with a monument erected some 30-odd years prior that honors an opponent of this nation that I don't think a single person complains about, compared to the CSA monuments that every Tom, Dick, and Harry get a bee in their britches over?
You won't get an argument out of me.
They never accepted the argument that all men (I use the term broadly... Broad, get it?)... are created equal.
The concept of Four Legs Good, Two Legs Better, is embedded in the very DNA of those communists.
Sirhr
nice try…
Why did Germany wisely not destroy the physical remnants of concentration camps? Then again I guess we have short memories.With apparent support of GOP members in Congress, the military may be required within 3 years to erase all names of bases, ships, aircraft and streets that honor the Confederacy. Are we going to be like the Taliban and erase history that some people don't like or refuse to even acknowledge?
GOP-led committee backs renaming bases that honor Confederates, setting up clash with Trump
The president said Wednesday that he would “not even consider” renaming Army bases that honor Confederate leaders.www.nbcnews.com
Please refer back to my post earlier in this thread. It explains the political upheaval that determined the current political ideologies of the current parties
Well said. To do otherwise would be to 'erase history' which is exactly what the Islamic fundamentalists tried to do. The Civil War is a FACT, we just need to view the fact in the proper light to understand it.
Yet I think of that photo posted somewhere here of the Afghan women now in school but separated from the men by a curtain. Many of the early American religious sects did the same.
Thank you. Well said.
I think it also important to discuss the tremendous disparity of wealth in the south as well.
Your statement that southern brethren were accepted back is crucial here. It is why there are, and ought to be monuments to those that fought on both sides. All of those that fought and died were Americans.
Federal over-reach. Yes, that Fugitive Slave Act has long lasting consequences.
Sirhr wrote: "Recognizing History (and how we got here) is how we make sure we stay together as a nation. If that's still possible."
I hope that it is still possible. I hope that we all do.
Sirhr wrote: "The Confederacy MUST be preserved for study... understanding and recognition that it WAS what made America a better place today. Celebrated? No... Not in my opinion. But preserved. 100 percent."
I think that we as a society have come to celebrate the acts of politicians far too much, and celebrate the ideals of American society and the American people far too little.
To deny history, enables those with evil intent to attempt to repeat it.
Good and bad, by our modern views, need to be learned.
Nathan Bedford Forrest, arguably one of the best cavalry officers, and slave trader, later apologised for his past actions.
People change, and the world with it.
Whether North or South, there are some truly remarkable men and women that helped shape America.
I am regularly annoyed by people claiming the past suffering of their ancestors as their own.
Learn from history, don't worship it.
Good and bad, by our modern views, need to be learned.
Nathan Bedford Forrest, arguably one of the best cavalry officers, and slave trader, later apologised for his past actions.
People change, and the world with it.
Whether North or South, there are some truly remarkable men and women that helped shape America.
I am regularly annoyed by people claiming the past suffering of their ancestors as their own.
Learn from history, don't worship it.
Yes and even though my 2nd GGF LtCol, lost his life to the War after being terribly wounded, his son and another cousin both went into Arkansas and practiced medicine to help with the wounded and maimed from the war, he even married a girl whose father was a CSA Major. I have cousins that died of disease in Andersonville, on the field of Battle and just after from their wounds. The Statues should stay to tell the history of what happened.
History does not exist for your comfort.
There are parts of history you should find uncomfortable.
That is, of course, the point.
There are parts of history you should find uncomfortable.
That is, of course, the point.
I've been to Dachau.
Even if you knew nothing of it's history, the place is chilling.
There is something truly grim about that place.
you started talking about Revolutionary War monuments honoring British soldiers in a thread about CSA monuments. Our problems with the UK go back further and are also more recent than any problems with the south. Any patriotic American would be more sympathetic to the status of the confederate monuments than to any monuments honoring European enemies invading our country.
the parties did not "flip". that is weak marxist propaganda. the DNC became full-on Bolsheviks while the RINOs drifted far to the left.
History keeps proving Jeff Davis right. The army should have been disbanded rather than surrendered. Let the North keep feeding the meat grinder till they gave up the cause or suffered their own rebellion. Lincoln should be remembered as the tyrant that he was.
yes he was. he is the culprit behind the all-powerful federal government which disregards the Constitution. He destroyed the primary check and balance which the anti-federalists had invented to keep us a free nation. States rights were the biggest check against federal overreach - the organized status of the states and the political and military power they could resort to were far more tangible than than "silent majority" of widely distributed citizens who are supposed to somehow coalesce and form an opposition to tyranny, despite the government controlling elections, the press, and all branches of federal government. So yes, Lincoln was a bastard. He might be a hero to people with totalitarian sympathies, but he destroyed our Republic and started it down the path to what we see now.
All traces of current administration should be banned
Which brings me to this. Like or hate the director, this clip pretty much sums up a lot of this discussion.
exactly. years ago, when I was in Stuttgart, I was dating a girl who was so ashamed of her history that every time I mentioned anything about the local "Uhlans Park" she would flinch and turn red. The 'Uhlans' in the title had as little to do with Nazism as the flowers in the park did.
Some day, maybe a long time from now, maybe really soon; it will be the monuments of the Socialists that are being torn down in disgrace. Names we see glorified in the MSM today will be the Pol Pots, the Stalins, or the Hitlers of tomorrow's history. That will also include the "journalists" who are conducting the deification ceremonies.
What goes around comes around, and BTW; no need to wait until then to begin dismantling the Socialists' dreams. Stand in their faces and smile at their discomfort. Good for them, good for you, in equal parts.
Nothing can paralyze the courage of a righteous person, except their own fear of becoming what they despise. It takes a step or two outside the box to gain the perspective that rights society's boat. Such steps, though onerous, are essential.
When Truman authorized The Bomb to use on Japan; he became at once the ogre and the savior simultaneously. It demanded courage, and he found his. Reagan understood this when he stepped up and demanded that the wall come down.
The rest of us haven't reached that place yet, but we will; it is essential, and it is inevitable. All that is necessary for this evil to succeed is for the good and decent among us to do nothing.
...And right now, we're doing plenty of that...
We face our own wall of self-righteous demagoguery to dismantle. Best get to work, fellow Patriots. Do not allow the Left to define the playing field, to arbitrate the acceptable means. Anything goes, just as it has been with their takeover. Kick, spit, bite; whatever it takes. It's OK to fight dirty, they're doing that every day.
Greg
What goes around comes around, and BTW; no need to wait until then to begin dismantling the Socialists' dreams. Stand in their faces and smile at their discomfort. Good for them, good for you, in equal parts.
Nothing can paralyze the courage of a righteous person, except their own fear of becoming what they despise. It takes a step or two outside the box to gain the perspective that rights society's boat. Such steps, though onerous, are essential.
When Truman authorized The Bomb to use on Japan; he became at once the ogre and the savior simultaneously. It demanded courage, and he found his. Reagan understood this when he stepped up and demanded that the wall come down.
The rest of us haven't reached that place yet, but we will; it is essential, and it is inevitable. All that is necessary for this evil to succeed is for the good and decent among us to do nothing.
...And right now, we're doing plenty of that...
We face our own wall of self-righteous demagoguery to dismantle. Best get to work, fellow Patriots. Do not allow the Left to define the playing field, to arbitrate the acceptable means. Anything goes, just as it has been with their takeover. Kick, spit, bite; whatever it takes. It's OK to fight dirty, they're doing that every day.
Greg
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No that is completely stupid to "erase all traces of the confederacy". It is the history of this country. It should be taught and not looked down upon.
I am sons and daughters of the Confederacy.
When the Union army came through my ancestors farm in Alabama, they raised the farm. All the men were gone fighting and the only ones there were the Women, Children and a few Slaves. The head lady of the house told the head slave take the farm Animals and try to hide them, which he did. The Union army was ransacking farms and plundering for food and valuables. When they checked the stables, to take the animals to eat, there where none there, only fresh manure. The Union soldiers grabbed everyone and started threatening people wanting to know where the animals were, they got aggressive with the head slave man there and were about to kill him, he wouldn't talk. Right before they were about to kill him, the head female broke and told them where they were, because she didn't want them to kill him.
Sherman him self was annoyed by the thousands of slaves following his army around after they destroyed the farms they worked on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebenezer_Creek
Btw not all slaves were abused. Some, like the ones on my families land were treated with respect, like part of the family. That is part of history they do not want people to know. You can't race bait people if there is a balanced view of the past. Now I am not claiming many people weren't mis treated as many were. You also must consider the times. Women could not own land, have jobs or Vote. Many of these slaves were coming from Africa... Different language and culture, literally jungle tribal communities . That must be considered. This is the side of the Story they don't want told. That doesn't fit the narrative.
This country and the entire world has come along way when it comes to Equality and Human rights. And that is a history that we should be willing to teach, the reality of what happened. If not the stories will be twisted into vial hate and nobody will learn from it, except distorted hatred.
I am sons and daughters of the Confederacy.
When the Union army came through my ancestors farm in Alabama, they raised the farm. All the men were gone fighting and the only ones there were the Women, Children and a few Slaves. The head lady of the house told the head slave take the farm Animals and try to hide them, which he did. The Union army was ransacking farms and plundering for food and valuables. When they checked the stables, to take the animals to eat, there where none there, only fresh manure. The Union soldiers grabbed everyone and started threatening people wanting to know where the animals were, they got aggressive with the head slave man there and were about to kill him, he wouldn't talk. Right before they were about to kill him, the head female broke and told them where they were, because she didn't want them to kill him.
Sherman him self was annoyed by the thousands of slaves following his army around after they destroyed the farms they worked on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebenezer_Creek
Btw not all slaves were abused. Some, like the ones on my families land were treated with respect, like part of the family. That is part of history they do not want people to know. You can't race bait people if there is a balanced view of the past. Now I am not claiming many people weren't mis treated as many were. You also must consider the times. Women could not own land, have jobs or Vote. Many of these slaves were coming from Africa... Different language and culture, literally jungle tribal communities . That must be considered. This is the side of the Story they don't want told. That doesn't fit the narrative.
This country and the entire world has come along way when it comes to Equality and Human rights. And that is a history that we should be willing to teach, the reality of what happened. If not the stories will be twisted into vial hate and nobody will learn from it, except distorted hatred.
