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I’ve been following this post and was hesitant to add my 2 cents one cause I’m a “newbie” and not a glass snob.
As other have mentioned having multiple of something is sound policy if your planning on madmax times . Two is one one is none, 4 is good 7 is better. Anyhow I had the chance last winter to buy 7 of the Nikon 1.5-4x20 600 yard BCD scopes. Two are on AR style pistols and one is on my backup patrol rifle. Very light weight , decent glass, repeatable clicks and easy to hit with out to 400 meters. Having bought them for next to nothing in a buyer take all auction lot I GEW it was a solid win, have a few spares and I don’t know if they’d hold up to a day long no holds barred shootout but the ones I have mounted have spent almost a year in a work truck on a boat or on a tractor and are still ticking .
and to head off any flaming - no I’m not saying they are S&B or NF quality and my $100 optic is as good as X Y or Z. Just saying for light weight and decent i was happy with my lot purchase.
Also find that on the 1.5 setting they are clear and quick enough to make snap shots at squirrels woodchucks coyotes and such inside 100 yards.
As other have mentioned having multiple of something is sound policy if your planning on madmax times . Two is one one is none, 4 is good 7 is better. Anyhow I had the chance last winter to buy 7 of the Nikon 1.5-4x20 600 yard BCD scopes. Two are on AR style pistols and one is on my backup patrol rifle. Very light weight , decent glass, repeatable clicks and easy to hit with out to 400 meters. Having bought them for next to nothing in a buyer take all auction lot I GEW it was a solid win, have a few spares and I don’t know if they’d hold up to a day long no holds barred shootout but the ones I have mounted have spent almost a year in a work truck on a boat or on a tractor and are still ticking .
and to head off any flaming - no I’m not saying they are S&B or NF quality and my $100 optic is as good as X Y or Z. Just saying for light weight and decent i was happy with my lot purchase.
Also find that on the 1.5 setting they are clear and quick enough to make snap shots at squirrels woodchucks coyotes and such inside 100 yards.
That is a perfectly sound thing to do. Redundancy is a very underappreciated thing.
ILya
I have had good luck running an ACOG and an offset red dot. I think it is a very durable option, don’t have to worry about battery life like some LPVOs, and (for me) it is faster to rotate the gun and pick up the dot than throw a scope magnification ring.
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Excellent. And I'm guessing this is what motivated you to put together your latest LPVO video. Very helpful. I have yet to purchase one. I have been shopping for an LPVO to place on my LaRue 6.5G. I have become spoiled by FFP optics. Never been in combat. Have no plans on keeping zombies at bay. Just shootin hogs at night in the Okefenokee. I love my S&B Ultra Short. May consider their I x 8
R/
CBDR
After all my pontificating about buying a bunch of cheap red dots for budget ARs I went an used my Covid money to buy a Razor Gen III for my Scar 17S.... Oh well, Guess I am as much as a gun junky elitist as the rest of you.
The excellent reviews by Ilya and kurpak are pretty much spot on with my own experience. I've had the K16i and now have the K18i and S&B Dual CC.
The FOV on both the K16 and K18 are a wonder to behold—like kurpak said, the tube disappears and there's a giant circle of reality with great situational awareness. The illumination on the K16 is barely daylight bright, but the K18 is much better. It has a super-bright setting that is very close to a RDS—no problem at all seeing it in bright daylight. YMMV, but I also like the dual dot system in the K18's 3GR reticle; for me, it greatly helps adjust my aim point for close-in shooting.
The K18 is definitely an improvement over the K16, especially when using different magnifications. The FOV still is superb, the glass is as good or possibly better, the reticle is better both at 1x and at magnification, the difference in weight is negligible, and of course the 1-8 is better than the 1-6. Had I not gotten a really, REALLY good deal on the S&B Dual CC, I would have been entirely happy with the K18. Even with the deal, I had to think about a while before making the decision (my K18i is on sale at the PX now).
The S&B does have a smaller FOV and more of the tube edge visible, but I don't get "tunnel vision" like kurpak. It's not as good as the K16/18 (nothing is), but it's not that bad, either. Several things made the difference for me over the K18: (1) the red dot is Aimpoint bright, as kurpak said; (2) the parallax in CC is at 7m, and then goes to 100m at magnification—I'm noticing more how this helps as I use the scope at short distances; (3) it's FFP over the SFP Kahles scopes; (4) the reticle at 6x and 8x mag is the best I've seen; (5) best glass and turrets; and (6) better durability by reputation.
The absence of the reticle at 1x when non-illuminated has not bothered me as much as Ilya and kurpak. There still is a small black dot which can be seen in many instances, especially when you train yourself to look for it. This is something that S&B should change, however.
The FOV on both the K16 and K18 are a wonder to behold—like kurpak said, the tube disappears and there's a giant circle of reality with great situational awareness. The illumination on the K16 is barely daylight bright, but the K18 is much better. It has a super-bright setting that is very close to a RDS—no problem at all seeing it in bright daylight. YMMV, but I also like the dual dot system in the K18's 3GR reticle; for me, it greatly helps adjust my aim point for close-in shooting.
The K18 is definitely an improvement over the K16, especially when using different magnifications. The FOV still is superb, the glass is as good or possibly better, the reticle is better both at 1x and at magnification, the difference in weight is negligible, and of course the 1-8 is better than the 1-6. Had I not gotten a really, REALLY good deal on the S&B Dual CC, I would have been entirely happy with the K18. Even with the deal, I had to think about a while before making the decision (my K18i is on sale at the PX now).
The S&B does have a smaller FOV and more of the tube edge visible, but I don't get "tunnel vision" like kurpak. It's not as good as the K16/18 (nothing is), but it's not that bad, either. Several things made the difference for me over the K18: (1) the red dot is Aimpoint bright, as kurpak said; (2) the parallax in CC is at 7m, and then goes to 100m at magnification—I'm noticing more how this helps as I use the scope at short distances; (3) it's FFP over the SFP Kahles scopes; (4) the reticle at 6x and 8x mag is the best I've seen; (5) best glass and turrets; and (6) better durability by reputation.
The absence of the reticle at 1x when non-illuminated has not bothered me as much as Ilya and kurpak. There still is a small black dot which can be seen in many instances, especially when you train yourself to look for it. This is something that S&B should change, however.
I noticed earlier in this thread a mention that all steiner p4xi lose zero ?
Is this a fact? As i want one.
Same was mentioned that vortex wont last beyond 3k or so downrange.
Is the gen 2 pst 1x6 junk too? Kinda want one of those as well.
Is this a fact? As i want one.
Same was mentioned that vortex wont last beyond 3k or so downrange.
Is the gen 2 pst 1x6 junk too? Kinda want one of those as well.
I am leaning more & more towards the older model PMII S&B 1.5 - 8 x 26 Short dot. For those up close and Adrenalin filled moments after dark with the hogs.
R/
CBDR
P4Xi losing zero? Since when?
ILya
Post 86
10). Steiner Px4. All that I have seen lose zero from impacts.
2). Vortex 1-6x Gen II is excellent on 1x, reticle is fine without illumination. The first four that I used had catastrophic failures before 3,500 rounds. The fifth has lasted more than 40k. Have seen dozens more used heavily, with more issues than is acceptable.
ILya
Post 86
10). Steiner Px4. All that I have seen lose zero from impacts.
2). Vortex 1-6x Gen II is excellent on 1x, reticle is fine without illumination. The first four that I used had catastrophic failures before 3,500 rounds. The fifth has lasted more than 40k. Have seen dozens more used heavily, with more issues than is acceptable.
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I have had a Meopta ZD 1-4x for number of years now. It's been a joy to use; boringly reliable and rugged.
With the current price of the Steiner being more than the pst isn't the pst worth it for the extra 2x?
For me im older and seem to get blinder by the week.
I can get a pst for 50 bucks less than the Steiner..
Sorry for making the waters muddy but i didn't want to start another thread as there is lots of good info here.
For me im older and seem to get blinder by the week.
I can get a pst for 50 bucks less than the Steiner..
Sorry for making the waters muddy but i didn't want to start another thread as there is lots of good info here.
While not on your list, I stopped by SWFA a couple of days ago and picked up a 1-6 HD Demo B. At $400 off from SWFA’s full price, an absolute bargain. Looked brand new to me. I think they have the best designed reticle available in a FFP LPVO. The big ring disappears out of the FOV at 6x and is a perfect sized CQB ring at 1x. Genius... Illumination is done just right. Daylight visible at highest setting. Barely visible at near dark on lowest setting. Glass is very nice. Turrets are very positive with ample adjustment range, slightly over 30 mils elevation on my scope. Haven’t shot it yet, so tracking remains to be seen, but based on my other SWFAs, I don’t expect any issues.
John
Yeah, there are thousands of these out there holding zero just fine. I talked to the guy on the phone. Seems like a good dude, but his experience does not match the reality of how many of these are out there doing great.
I'll leave it at that.
ILya
I have the Steiner and I’ve done side by sides with the PST2 and a few other scopes. The Steiner glass punches well above its price class - to my eyes it’s a bit clearer and crisper than the Razor II 1-6 - and the red dot gets much brighter. I’d rather have a clear 4x and a clear and bright 1x than a relatively low-contrast 6x and a decent 1x.
Really, my only issues with the Steiner are that it’s SFP and the turrets are mushy, but there are no good FFP LVPOs in that price range and I’ve yet to touch the turrets after zeroing.
Yup my go to rifle for just about everything, even thought about selling my SBR Geissele URG, Eotech , nah forget that.
I just put a Steiner P4xi-4x24 on a Colt 6920 ...and added a LaRue MBT trigger. Looks and feels awesome , going to shoot it / sight in tomorrow. Happy as a pig in shit ! 
Well probably not a military grade optic, but I did not like my FFP Optika6 1-6. So I am going to run a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10. It is SFP.
Took 6 months to get my S&B Dual CC Pantone from CameraLand and then Doug gave S&B the boot!
Anyway, after reading this Thread did find the small dot and post cross hairs without illumnation on but with a
darker background, they disappear completely. Other wise I love the 1X, CC dot.
I have the scope on a SIG MCX Pistol with Giessle mount for a very nice package.
-Richard
Anyway, after reading this Thread did find the small dot and post cross hairs without illumnation on but with a
darker background, they disappear completely. Other wise I love the 1X, CC dot.
I have the scope on a SIG MCX Pistol with Giessle mount for a very nice package.
-Richard
I finally received the scope, glass is comparable to Razor Gen 2, the ocular is just a thin ring at 1x, maybe slightly thicker than a razor but close. Weight and size are all reasonable, adjustment are fully capped and at .1 mil feel fine, no data on durability. If they had a reticle for 77 gr I'd gone that route, but the mil reticle is certainly usable if you know your dope. Magnification adjustment ring is reasonable and smooth, nice middle ground in feel. Lighting is daylight bright, the center + looks kinda smeared with my aging eyes but at 1x both eyes open it works. As usual though jack of trades is master of none. And I ordered a capped NXS 1x8, so whatever... This scope seems to fill the intended role so we'll see.
Side note: no zero stop but once you zero your rifle, pull out on the adjustment knobs, rotate to 0 and push them back in. The alignment isn't perfect but close.
My choice was a Sig Tango6t, initially because I got it for a ridiculously low price. It seems like it as durable as anything else below a NF, it has a very nice image with a thin occular visible, it's very bright and It was cheap. That checks the boxes for me. Considering that it is very rare to shoot over 200 yds in my area it is a good option for a general use scope.
Well I guess I’m a dick too because I just ordered the Steiner 1 to 4 power. SFP.
I am loving the new Vortex Gen III 1-10 on my Scar Heavy. Glass is clear and the reticle is usable at 100 Yards. Waiting for a chance to test it out past 100.
Has anyone switched from the Razor Gen II 1-6 to an NX8? Im very much in the same boat as OP, but currently run a Razor 1-6 (Non - E) that Im looking to swap out. For my uses the Razor is simply too heavy, and while I love the 1x performance, Im looking for something a bit smaller/lighter while retaining the same sort of 1x speed. If I swap over to the NX8 will I regret it? 80% of the use is at 1x, and it'll be a defensive-minded rifle, so the NX8 seemed like a logical candidate.
I had a NX8 and didn’t even mount it because the fisheye effect at 1x was so bad. What a turd. Yes, you will be disappointed coming from the razor because the razor is excellent at 1x. I believe the MK6 and K16 are a little lighter and they both work great.
there is no fisheye at all. You simply could not set it up correctly and what a shame haha.
I like the mk6 more though
Had to sell my ACOG's a few years back. With no diopter adjustment they don't work for us older eyes. ACOG's are made for young men who like to break things. A low power optic gives you more options with variable power. Now using a Kahles k16i 1-6x24 and the glass is out of this world.
Correct.
My NX8 has no fisheye at 1x, nor should any once properly installed and adjusted.
Regarding the best LPVO for SHTF or any similar use...
I'm leaning heavily toward the Vortex Razor Gen 3 1-10x with MRad reticle.
got a S&B Short Dot 1.1-4 with a Dr and love it man. Don’t have any experience with the Others but I dig this one
The NX8 makes some compromises to be as small as it is with the zoom ratio it has. You will not get the 1x as ‘flat’ as others, the image brightness will seem darker, particularly above 6x, and the eye box will be tight compared to others
On the other hand, the illumination is some of the best, it is tiny, and (presumably) very durable. Mine developed internal debris problems very quickly, but this does not seem to be normal and NF fixed it with no drama.
FWIW, I could not get the 1x edge distortion out of mine either. Still a good optic.
Nailed it. Setting the diopter seems particularly critical with the NX8, but could be my eyes.
It does, I think my post could have been taken either way- I meant to say that I was never able to get the image as ‘flat’ as just about anything else above $1000. Does not seem to be a huge deal at speed, but if you’re looking for it, you’ll find it.
Neat little scope; just need to be sure it is what you want before you buy.
Just to share my experience ( which is Much less than many here), my P4xi 1-4 has been great. I bought it earlier this year from Doug based on research primarily here and it did exactly what I wanted. Relatively small and light, bright red dot with a lot of adjustment range, very clear glass, etc. Added butler creek caps and aero mount. Turrets are a little mushy and more than 4X would be nice but I can live with those compromises.
For SHTF LPVO, my vote is Razor gen 2 1-6 MRAD
The new Steiner 1-4 is a beautiful optic. Got it mounted on the FN15 DMR. Next I will boresight and get it zeroed.
That red dot is very bright.
That red dot is very bright.
I have Z6i, V8 1.1-8x tried several Kahles and Leicas.
The Trijicon VCOG can probably be used as a hammer, but optically it's inferior.
Also have a S&B 1-8x Dual CC. Optically it's very close to the best from Swaro, Kahles and Zeiss sports optics, but it's most likely going to last a lot longer than the other German scopes. Good if you have extra batteries.
Best for SHTF? Probably an Aimpoint CompM5s, but it's not what you asked for...
The Trijicon VCOG can probably be used as a hammer, but optically it's inferior.
Also have a S&B 1-8x Dual CC. Optically it's very close to the best from Swaro, Kahles and Zeiss sports optics, but it's most likely going to last a lot longer than the other German scopes. Good if you have extra batteries.
Best for SHTF? Probably an Aimpoint CompM5s, but it's not what you asked for...
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