Sig kilo2400 vs. 3000 or Leica 2800.com

[Glassaholic]

I just purchased the Leica 2800.COM hoping it's what I've been looking for - an LRF that can give me drop and wind holds. I am also about to return a set of Zeiss Victory RF's. I did a review of the Nikon Laserforce, Vortex Fury HD (not the 5000 version) and Leica HD-B 2200's last year but was left wanting with the glass from the Nikon and Vortex. I also currently have the Sig Kilo 2000's which I'm wanting to replace (thought they are my reference because I know how to use them to get what I need). I think Diver's comments above are spot on, you need to know your equipment and understand how to use it, if you do this then almost any LRF should work for you - just know its limitations. Reading through this thread and some others has got me to realize I have a lot to learn still on how to effectively use my LRF so I appreciate all the effort at putting together tests and explaining results and experiences, this is time consuming but very helpful to the community.

I have not had a chance to look at the Sig 3000BDX but I have read enough reviews to know it is not the glass I am looking for. In fact, none of the Japanese or sometimes Chinese optics for binos and LRF's have really turned me on, they all tend to have a bluish color cast to them which really bugs me, especially in low light. The only Japanese glass I've seen that really impresses is Maven, but they don't make an LRF unit. This is what led me to pay the premium for the Zeiss Victory RF - which don't disappoint optically, but I was not as impressed with the LRF as I thought I'd be, especially in comparison to the Kilo 2000; however, reading through this thread and realizing that Sig may be setting their LRF's to provide better readings on a variety of things at the cost of, possibly, less precision makes me wonder if I was "fooled" into thinking the Kilo LRF has been doing "better" than it really is.

I think the real test is on animals and steel, which are the things I mostly shoot. I will still have the Victory RF's when the 2800.COM's come in so will try and get back out to the ranch to beam some antelope and cows at distance and do a comparison between Kilo 2000, Leica 2800.COM and Zeiss Victory RF....

 

[Diver160651]

Is that a custom plate you had made? That would be great for the range to hold Kestrel, LRF and binos, also, whose mount are you using on your 2800.COM, sweet setup by the way.

That’s a Grey Opps Gamer plate. I did tap a hole for the Kestrel. Although I never really use it.

PS you’ll get much better performance turning the Bluetooth off on the 2800

 

[Glassaholic]

That’s a Grey Opps Gamer plate. I did tap a hole for the Kestrel. Although I never really use it.

PS you’ll get much better performance turning the Bluetooth off on the 2800

Nice, I'll have to check that out, thank you. Also, when you say better performance by turning bluetooth off on the 2800, are you saying better performance from the LRF unit like more accurate results, or just "faster" results because it doesn't have to communicate with the Kestrel? I am trying to train myself to read wind much better, especially at distance since the Kestrel can only read wind at my position which may be very different from what it is doing at distance or across valleys and ridges, etc.

 

[Diver160651]

Nice, I'll have to check that out, thank you. Also, when you say better performance by turning bluetooth off on the 2800, are you saying better performance from the LRF unit like more accurate results, or just "faster" results because it doesn't have to communicate with the Kestrel? I am trying to train myself to read wind much better, especially at distance since the Kestrel can only read wind at my position which may be very different from what it is doing at distance or across valleys and ridges, etc.

Faster to acquire targets + buy it also seems to capture long steel plates better. As in past a mile.

We had 4 including @seansmd last weekend ranging a 1900 yard target in bright sunshine. All worked better with BT off.

 

[seansmd]

Faster to acquire targets + buy it also seems to capture long steel plates better. As in past a mile.

We had 4 including @seansmd last weekend ranging a 1900 yard target in bright sunshine. All worked better with BT off.

I had my BT on the whole time and had no problems but always had the Kestrel on first and then turned on the Leica. @Diver160651 got me looking at this before mine arrived, it is clear the Leica gets lost when it loses the BT connection. I am with him that when you need a quick range leave off BT, unless you want to populate your range card on your Kestrel or have time.

My other observation I verified just now, is when BT on and a solid connection there is a significant delay from a good range capture to the ability to capture a new range. There is an even larger delay if you range something too close or invalid the kestrel can't return a value for. For example, I turned on the Kestrel, then the Leica with BT enabled, connected relatively quickly, range a ~100y target returned the value quickly, then 2-3 second delay until the reticle returned and I could range another target. I tried to push the range button quicker and it would not respond. I then tried to rang a close target, 11 yards, the range was returned quickly, but couldn't range new target for 5-10 seconds.

With BT off I could range a new target every 1-2 seconds, in a field match and ranging targets on the clock this would be how I would use it.

 

[plamia2]

Guys, thanks very much to everyone who helped me in choosing the RF in this topic!

I received my SIG3000 KILO and am completely satisfied with its work.
It is much more powerful and faster than my leica1600.
Connects well and works quickly with garmin701 and kestrel5700.

If the SIG works reliably, then it will completely replace the leica.

 

[LawnMM]

Sounds like Leica just needs to work the bugs out of their firmware

 

[b00mb00m]

I want a device that does envoinment as well. I see the Sig KILO2400 ABS does that. I cannot find info that the 2800.com or the KILO3000BDX does it. Is this the unit for me are there other stand alone choices?

 

[seansmd]

 

[b00mb00m]

View attachment 7145100

So this is the 2800.com? Good to know. I get confused when looking at the specs as to if it has its own enviroument readings or gets it's data from Kestrel. That said, does the Kilo3000BDX have environment?

 

[theLBC]

So this is the 2800.com? Good to know. I get confused when looking at the specs as to if it has its own enviroument readings or gets it's data from Kestrel. That said, does the Kilo3000BDX have environment?

i don't think so, but it is a feature of the 2400ABS rangefinder, including a wind speed sensor.

 

[catorres1]

The 2800 has full environmentals onboard, much like the 2400 ABS. The 2400 BDX and the 3000bdx do not have environmental sensors (temp and pressure) onboard. That information must be supplied via input from the app (manual or automatic), or left to the Kestrel to sort.

 

[Glassaholic]

So this is the 2800.com? Good to know. I get confused when looking at the specs as to if it has its own enviroument readings or gets it's data from Kestrel. That said, does the Kilo3000BDX have environment?

The 2800.COM also communicates DOF (Direction of Fire) to the Kestrel for the solution. May not be a big deal but it is one of the few devices that does that. I will also say that the 2800.COM has the fastest reading of distance I have seen from an LRF unit, I had the Zeiss Victory RF 10x42's and thought it was fast but the Leica feels almost instantaneous the moment you press the button. When the 2800.COM is connected to a Kestrel there is a slight delay as the Kestrel communicates drop information, but the information stays on the Kestrel which is nice in case you forgot the wind hold while you were dialing elevation.

 

[st1650]

Any plans to have the 2800.com connect to the Garmin 701 ?

 

[plamia2]

I asked "Leica" about this. They do not have this in their work plans.

 

[st1650]

I asked "Leica" about this. They do not have this in their work plans.

Stupid. They’re ‘this’ close ....

 

[plamia2]

Well ... this "stupidity" is what "Leica" answered me.

 

[seansmd]

I asked "Leica" about this. They do not have this in their work plans.

Thank you, do you know if they have heard the feedback about the control menus and displaying the solution for longer (or repeating) ?

 

[plamia2]

Thank you, do you know if they have heard the feedback about the control menus and displaying the solution for longer (or repeating) ?

I did not ask about it.

 

[Wormydog1724]

It would be nice if the Leica didn’t have so many reported issues with connectivity with the Kestrel. I am needing one for matches and hunting and having reliable connection to a kestrel is top priority only second to being able to range fast and accurate, which it seems Leica edges the Sigs in that regard.
Just can’t decide if I roll the dice with the Leica now or maybe wait until they come out with a more reliable Bluetooth connection later.

 

[Diver160651]

It would be nice if the Leica didn’t have so many reported issues with connectivity with the Kestrel. I am needing one for matches and hunting and having reliable connection to a kestrel is top priority only second to being able to range fast and accurate, which it seems Leica edges the Sigs in that regard.
Just can’t decide if I roll the dice with the Leica now or maybe wait until they come out with a more reliable Bluetooth connection later.

People that need to leave their Kestrels on for the entire stage are the main ones timing out. If you turn on the Kestrel then turn on the Leica they work well together. Once you stop using the Leica and it falls asleep. It is bet just to restart the Kestrel first.

 

[Wormydog1724]

People that need to leave their Kestrels on for the entire stage are the main ones timing out. If you turn on the Kestrel then turn on the Leica they work well together. Once you stop using the Leica and it falls asleep. It is bet just to restart the Kestrel first.

thanks for that. I’m not ranging in the clock, at least in the comps I’ve been to yet.

 

[seansmd]

FYI very repeatable once you know how they behave.

Kestrel Meters Ballistics Official Thread

I have talked to one user who thinks turning lock on caused the problem, but I cannot confirm. Any input on that? I’ll check that. I have lock “on.” What is the difference between lock on and off? I’m still researching everything on the kestrel end.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Wormydog1724]

One more question, the Leica 2800.com pairs with the Kestrel Sportsman? I have not upgraded it to an Elite yet.

 

[Glassaholic]

One more question, the Leica 2800.com pairs with the Kestrel Sportsman? I have not upgraded it to an Elite yet.

Yes it does, I have the Sportsman that I have not upgraded yet.

 

[st1650]

When linked with the Kestrel and with the compass properly aligned does the Leica display the wind correction in the LRF ?

 

[Glassaholic]

When linked with the Kestrel and with the compass properly aligned does the Leica display the wind correction in the LRF ?

Briefly, I wish there was a setting for the display time because it goes away pretty quick but will stay on the Kestrel indefinitely

 

[260284]

I have the 3000BDX and the Kestrel Sportsman. They connect as soon as I wake up the 3000 to range a target and the elevation and windage show up immediately in the 3000 and on the Kestrel. This will be great for me for hunting and at the Hornady Steel Challenge.

 

[walkabout]

I would not buy a sig 2400 BDX, I have one and 2 other of my friends.
The App is crap(Android), never syncs with 2400, If you unistall the app and reinstall it, it remembers all the settings so nothing changes.
The 2400 is supposed to send ranges to the Garmin 701, which it does and the Garmin 701 sends the dope to the Sig it only ever worked twice in 12 months on mine. Never worked ever on one of my friends. We have tried mixing and matching the 3 701's and 3 2400's nothing.
Sig support has no answers, in fact took 3 months to get a reply by email on the problem, for them to only ask how they could help, when I told them of the problem they had no answers.
I hear the 3000 units are better?

 

[260284]

I would not buy a sig 2400 BDX, I have one and 2 other of my friends.
The App is crap(Android), never syncs with 2400, If you unistall the app and reinstall it, it remembers all the settings so nothing changes.
The 2400 is supposed to send ranges to the Garmin 701, which it does and the Garmin 701 sends the dope to the Sig it only ever worked twice in 12 months on mine. Never worked ever on one of my friends. We have tried mixing and matching the 3 701's and 3 2400's nothing.
Sig support has no answers, in fact took 3 months to get a reply by email on the problem, for them to only ask how they could help, when I told them of the problem they had no answers.
I hear the 3000 units are better?

I am not using the Sig app, just connecting the 3000 to my Kestrel Sportsman. No issues at all. Amazes me how fast I get a solution after I range a target.

 

[walkabout]

I am not using the Sig app, just connecting the 3000 to my Kestrel Sportsman. No issues at all. Amazes me how fast I get a solution after I range a target.

I dont really want to use the app at all just the 701 with the 2400, but I explored it and its nearly as bad as the Labradar one was!
I think I will try and get hold of a pair of 3000 and see if they will work as advertised.

 

[walkabout]

I am not using the Sig app, just connecting the 3000 to my Kestrel Sportsman. No issues at all. Amazes me how fast I get a solution after I range a target.

Hi
Do you get the dope in the 3000's as well as on the Kestrel?

 

[260284]

Hi
Do you get the dope in the 3000's as well as on the Kestrel?

Yes, it shows up in the display after the yardage.

 

[Steel+Killer]

I have 3000 and a Kestrel the connection seems pretty solid for the most part only thing the 3000 is lacking other than a little better glass is it doesn't have a built in compass so it can't send DOF to the kestrel, but does range far and fast.

 

[Glassaholic]

Just got to play with the 3000BDX shooting with a friend. I was fairly impressed, the color cast was not as blue as I've seen from other Sig sport optics which was a nice surprise.

 

[st1650]

Yep still waiting for a gen 2 Kilo 3000 BDX with compass or whatever Vortex could come up with that would link with Bluetooth to a 5700 Elite with DOF.

 

[Triple BB]

To the OP, I went with the 2400 ABS. Its a great rangefinder. I have Swaro 10x42 and 10x32 EL bino's and saw no reason to go backwards in the bino dept. If yer not shooting over 2000 yds, you won't go wrong with the ABS...

 

[Glassaholic]

Yep still waiting for a gen 2 Kilo 3000 BDX with compass or whatever Vortex could come up with that would link with Bluetooth to a 5700 Elite with DOF.

I would love to see vortex come out with an LRF that connects to Kestrel but I just don’t see that happening anytime soon. Vortex, please prove me wrong...

 

[MosesTheTank]

I have 3000 and a Kestrel the connection seems pretty solid for the most part only thing the 3000 is lacking other than a little better glass is it doesn't have a built in compass so it can't send DOF to the kestrel, but does range far and fast.

My experience is exactly the same. I would pay more for better glass. Overall I am happy with the pair.

 

[Diver160651]

I just wanted to let you guys know I just finished another "tip" segment for our 2020 UKD Team match. It's been sold out for some time, and we had planned on providing free-on-site spin-ups; but due to COVID, we decided to create an ongoing, online tip segment. These aren't your typical reviews, or what to buy, but rather tips that will make you a better field shooter. Many of the suggestions might end up helping your hunting game as well.

I think if you look at the beams you'll see why max range is kinda BS on some of the units, and ranging a 1 MOA plate at 1500 yards (the OP's question), is less accurate than you might think.

This tip on PLRF beam verification, you might find relevant to the topic discussed in this thread. It is attempting to show not only how to validate your PLRFs beam size and location, but why choosing the correct type of beam is important.

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

Sneak peek to a Stage Spoiler BT's One-Shot Team Challenge Dave's Devious Dope Test With all the stages, the names are hints in themselves. If you know Dave or @sfogold you know Dave likes to create side stages for his NRL22 matches involving match sticks. Next week I'll finish the first...

www.snipershide.com

Here is a link to the main post and index sharing Tripod Field Tips, Stage Tips, Using an Able Table, and will expand over the next few months to include Reticle ranging (the problems with it), Team dope cards, Loops, etc. Come in and fee free to make comments ask questions. Comments from any experience level are welcome.

Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting

See the 2021 match schedule here: https://www.avenaltactical.com/ including the next UKD Team Match, 2 PRS Pro Bolt series, PRS SW Regional Qualifier, and monthly Hunter and PRS regional series, matches. Because our match was sold out 10 months in advance, we feel we should offer a spin up...

www.snipershide.com

 

[jetsurgeon]

Bravo...... Diver160651