Sig Sauer - KILO3000 BDX LASER RANGEFINDING BINOCULARS

[flyer]

Well under suburban light pollution I was able to get a pretty detailed view of some leaves at around 85 yards.

I need to look at some bright white targets to see if there is any CA.

Eventually I'll do a Pepsi challenge against my Vanguard Endeavor ED 10x42s but not this weekend.

 

[PFG]

The diopters do move a little bit easier than I would like, but I don't think its something that a little ingenuity couldn't fix first thing that comes to mind is simple witness marks so you can easily move them back if you inadvertently move them.

I would agree that witness marks would be a fine solution for light carry use, or use during shooting matches . If that's the scenario where these are going to get used, then I wouldn't worry a bit.

However, as a hunting bino that come in and out of a chest carry case (or no carry case), and get bumped around while moving/hiking...I couldn't deal with bringing the binos up expecting a clean view and finding the diopters out of whack. Having to stop and re-focus (even with witness marks) can mean losing the precious few seconds needed for a range or confirmation of legal vs non-legal animal.

As any elk hunter knows - that shit can happen fast. You often don't have more than a few moments to grab a range, confirm your target, confirm legal animal (or specific animal if you have one ID'd), then get in a position to shoot.

Now, its likely that Sig made these for shooters, not hunters. Primarily for matches, use on tripods, etc. And if thats the case - then using witness marks for the diopters won't matter. But as a hunting bino...non locking diopters is a no no, at least in my book.

 

[catorres1]

I would agree that witness marks would be a fine solution for light carry use, or use during shooting matches . If that's the scenario where these are going to get used, then I wouldn't worry a bit.

However, as a hunting bino that come in and out of a chest carry case (or no carry case), and get bumped around while moving/hiking...I couldn't deal with bringing the binos up expecting a clean view and finding the diopters out of whack. Having to stop and re-focus (even with witness marks) can mean losing the precious few seconds needed for a range or confirmation of legal vs non-legal animal.

As any elk hunter knows - that shit can happen fast. You often don't have more than a few moments to grab a range, confirm your target, confirm legal animal (or specific animal if you have one ID'd), then get in a position to shoot.

Now, its likely that Sig made these for shooters, not hunters. Primarily for matches, use on tripods, etc. And if thats the case - then using witness marks for the diopters won't matter. But as a hunting bino...non locking diopters is a no no, at least in my book.

Agree strongly on the diopters, that was the first thing we checked, hoping for a tight fit like my 2400 had. That is one design point they need to address either by tightening them significantly, or better, having them lock. So far, the only time we have seen them move is when someone twists the eyecups up and grabs them accidentally, but I still think it could happen. Our solution? Probably a little strip of electrical tape around the diopter should do nicely, with a witness mark to make sure it's working.

But I think the main target market for these is hunters, and the benefit to the system is speed. So that's one area I'd like to see improved for sure.

 

[catorres1]

Anyone have reports on animals? Cows, pigs, deer, Bigfoot, anything? Lol

So yeah, 1000 plus yards on cows, but that's not very challenging even if in full sun. Have not had a chance to find deer at any appreciable distance as of yet.

However, was able to hit swans swimming an a lake in full mid-day sun at 905 yards. I found this a great test because the lake was extremely reflective in the worst way (it was quite choppy) so the RF would not read off the water at all...so I knew what I was hitting. In addition, there were tons of stray reflections all over the place, which play havoc with RF's, even shooting across the water. Nonetheless, I was easily (handheld, but braced on myself) able to repeatedly range individual swans at will. The farthest they got from me was 905, but I was confident I could get further but they did not cooperate (came towards me instead). Even when one dove half way under the water to catch some food, I could still hit it easily and repeatedly. That's a pretty small target under pretty difficult conditions for an RF, so I was impressed.

BTW, was also able to hit speeding jetski's the same day out past 1200. Not a deer, but again, very difficult conditions for an RF hitting a swerving and speeding target that is relatively small in glimmering water. But still find the swan the most impressive at this point.

 

[VDVSNIPER]

Very interesting Bono’s, quick question for those that have them already. On my Leica 2400, when I range something, it gives me a distance but then a second later gives me a true distance based on angle, temp,elevation ect. Do these bino’s do the same thing?

 

[Steel+Killer]

Anyone have reports on animals? Cows, pigs, deer, Bigfoot, anything? Lol

Turkeys at 600yds buzzards at 900yds.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Very interesting Bono’s, quick question for those that have them already. On my Leica 2400, when I range something, it gives me a distance but then a second later gives me a true distance based on angle, temp,elevation ect. Do these bino’s do the same thing?

From the manual............

MODES OF OPERATION - ANGLE MODIFED RANGE (AMR) AND LINE OF SIGHT (LOS)
Angle modified range is the equivalent horizontal range to the target and is comparable to the
“horizontal leg” of a triangle. AMR is also known as “rifleman’s rule” and uses the LOS range and
angle of incline to calculate the horizontal distance the projectile travels between shooter and
target. AMR is very accurate for shorter distances (i.e. < 400 yards) and archery.
Line of sight is the range to the target independent of angle. It is comparable to the “hypotenuse”
of a triangle. When ranging in LOS mode, the distance is displayed in addition to the angle of incline.
This method is preferred for those long range shooters and hunters wanting to use the LOS range
and angle of incline to calculate a very precise holdover using a ballistic calculator smartphone
application and/or wind measurement device.
For example, if the rangefinder is in LOS mode the line of sight range of 500 yards would be
displayed along with the angle of -30 (degrees decline). Use LOS in combination with a ballistic
calculator to calculate an exact holdover in minutes of angle or milliradians.
If the rangefinder is in AMR mode the angle modified range of 433.0 yards would be displayed. This is
the equivalent horizontal range and can be used in combination with a ballistic / holdover reticle or
with the SIG Ballistic Turret SBT™ dial.

 

[flyer]

No tripod and too much caffeine, I couldn't range anything over 1,300 some yards. I think that was mostly due to lack of targets to try due to Easter weekend activities.

I'll try to take a more critical look through them instead of just ranging distant targets.

 

[catorres1]

No tripod and too much caffeine, I couldn't range anything over 1,300 some yards. I think that was mostly due to lack of targets to try due to Easter weekend activities.

I'll try to take a more critical look through them instead of just ranging distant targets.

Might also test to find out where your sensor is in relation to your reticle. You may be missing what you think you are targeting due where the sensor actually is. Some if the sensor may even be outside the reticle, but once you figure out where it is, you should be good.

 

[flyer]

I ranged a white house up a hill at around 1,800 yards.

I think the difficulty I had was a bit of caffeine shake trying to range on a featureless grassy hillside.

I know where I can go to walk out the ranges to see how far it goes but I just need to find the time. It won't happen this weekend.

 

[flyer]

I will figure out the beam location once I have it tripod mounted and steady enough to range small targets.

It's just not a priority yet.

 

[5RWill]

Took it out next to our Razors today. Held it's own very nicely glass wise. Ranging was great, although my battery is already half dead... Is that normal?

I had issue getting a diesel tank at 1400+ or so anywhere i had heavy mirage it was tough. If there wasn't mirage no big issue got a tree line at 2204yds. It's quick as hell, little worried about the battery life though. Diopters again move wayyyy to easily. Going to have to do something to secure them or add a witness mark as previous posters suggested.

 

[catorres1]

Took it out next to our Razors today. Held it's own very nicely glass wise. Ranging was great, although my battery is already half dead... Is that normal?

I had issue getting a diesel tank at 1400+ or so anywhere i had heavy mirage it was tough. If there wasn't mirage no big issue got a tree line at 2204yds. It's quick as hell, little worried about the battery life though. Diopters again move wayyyy to easily. Going to have to do something to secure them or add a witness mark as previous posters suggested.

You may have a bum battery. I have used mine a ton and still at 100%.

 

[flyer]

I let a friend look through it and he was impressed with the clarity although it's another person not used to alpha level glass, then he was floored by the LRF function and I don't think it fully sank in when I told him that it could connect to a weather meter/ballistic calculator. I didn't even bring up the connectivity to the scope with the BDX reticle.

I haven't noticed the diopter moving unintentionally yet. I'll probably use it for a while to make sure it's fully dialed in and then witness mark it with a paint pen.

 

[JeremyV]

I would agree that witness marks would be a fine solution for light carry use, or use during shooting matches . If that's the scenario where these are going to get used, then I wouldn't worry a bit.

However, as a hunting bino that come in and out of a chest carry case (or no carry case), and get bumped around while moving/hiking...I couldn't deal with bringing the binos up expecting a clean view and finding the diopters out of whack. Having to stop and re-focus (even with witness marks) can mean losing the precious few seconds needed for a range or confirmation of legal vs non-legal animal.

As any elk hunter knows - that shit can happen fast. You often don't have more than a few moments to grab a range, confirm your target, confirm legal animal (or specific animal if you have one ID'd), then get in a position to shoot.

Now, its likely that Sig made these for shooters, not hunters. Primarily for matches, use on tripods, etc. And if thats the case - then using witness marks for the diopters won't matter. But as a hunting bino...non locking diopters is a no no, at least in my book.

I'll have to see how these work out but I don't think they will actually get bumped much because of the size and location of them.

I'm pretty sure some tape could fix this issue as well.

I let a friend look through it and he was impressed with the clarity although it's another person not used to alpha level glass, then he was floored by the LRF function and I don't think it fully sank in when I told him that it could connect to a weather meter/ballistic calculator. I didn't even bring up the connectivity to the scope with the BDX reticle.

I haven't noticed the diopter moving unintentionally yet. I'll probably use it for a while to make sure it's fully dialed in and then witness mark it with a paint pen.

Used these today in a match and they worked excellent even in the rain and fog. Was ranging out to 2100 yards in misting conditions to trees hand held. All my dope was right on and I ended up winning my division and winning the whole match overall. The glass on these was good enough to see bullet trace on 223 out to 500 yards.
I Was spotting and calling hits for guys all day and they worked great! Really impressed so far.

 

[79steeler]

How are you guys attaching these to a tripod?

 

[flyer]

I went with the Outdoorsman's QD setup. I think the base is designed to fit in some type of photographic dovetail base but I'll have to figure out something else.

 

[JeremyV]

I want to know this too. In one of the photos it looks like there is some adaptor that screws into the front of the binoculars that then makes it so you can tripod mount them. Mine didn't come with any way to directly mount it to a tripod.

 

[79steeler]

I went with the Outdoorsman's QD setup. I think the base is designed to fit in some type of photographic dovetail base but I'll have to figure out something else.

Can you post some pics of how this works? Thanks

 

[.30kal]

Was able to range a shipping container and a camping trailer at 3740 yd in bright sunlight. 12-24” steel at 2234 (furthest available). This ranges at shootable distances and more. Vast improvement over my Bushnell Conx.

Glass is very good, but not great. Handles bright sunlight well except when the sun was at my six in late afternoon where I got some bad CA on a big white piece of steel. Didn’t get a chance to really use them at twilight so jury is still out on how well these will do for hunting, but they’re better than what I was using before. My Bushnell LRTS had some CA too. My friend’s older Geovids were superior glass-wise in every way (as expected) but could not range steel past 1300.

I did notice the battery ran down quickly and then went back up through out the day. Not sure how long it will last so will be putting a fresh one every time I hunt with it.

 

[flyer]

Their generic stud threads in to the front of the Binoculars and that stud fits in to the locking tripod adapter piece.

With how many good QD scope mounts there are on the market, I was expecting much more competition in the binocular tripod adapter market but most QD products seem very hokey and even though Outdoorsmans will tell you that their adapter will return to zero, no one leads their marketing with that.

So I wound up going with Outdoorsmans mostly because it's the only thing that seems to do what I want.

It's expensive and I bet some competition would improve that but while I would like to pay less, it's not a rip-off.

 

[JeremyV]

So today I got out and was comparing the kilo 3000 to the vortex viper hd and here is what I decided the glass is really close to the same
I feel like the sig might edge it out for sharpness but it's hard to tell.

The vortex had slightly better color to my eyes and then I discovered something crazy. The right eye has a noticeable blue tent to it and the left looks normal.
Your eyes overlay the colors and they blend together so you don't even notice that both eyes are seeing things in different colors.

The left side looks just like the vortex as far as the color and the right looks more like what you expect to see in a rangefinder.

All the guys I shoot with and compete with are impressed with the glass and how fast they range.

My good friend has the vortex fury hd and he said he is selling those asap to get these said it's night and day difference in how fast they range and how easy it is to get readings off of almost anything.

 

[catorres1]

So today I got out and was comparing the kilo 3000 to the vortex viper hd and here is what I decided the glass is really close to the same
I feel like the sig might edge it out for sharpness but it's hard to tell.

The vortex had slightly better color to my eyes and then I discovered something crazy. The right eye has a noticeable blue tent to it and the left looks normal.
Your eyes overlay the colors and they blend together so you don't even notice that both eyes are seeing things in different colors.

The left side looks just like the vortex as far as the color and the right looks more like what you expect to see in a rangefinder.

All the guys I shoot with and compete with are impressed with the glass and how fast they range.

My good friend has the vortex fury hd and he said he is selling those asap to get these said it's night and day difference in how fast they range and how easy it is to get readings off of almost anything.

On the color, what they did was actually very smart....the blue is due to the RF in the right barrel. If you look at the left, it is actually warmer than natural colors. Can't see it on all things, but it is there. So a little warm on the left, and little cool on the right...open both eyes and you get pretty good overall balance....at least that is how my eyes perceive it. Clever solution.

 

[JeremyV]

On the color, what they did was actually very smart....the blue is due to the RF in the right barrel. If you look at the left, it is actually warmer than natural colors. Can't see it on all things, but it is there. So a little warm on the left, and little cool on the right...open both eyes and you get pretty good overall balance....at least that is how my eyes perceive it. Clever solution.

I would agree it's warmer then normal on the left but so is the vortex so my overall image through the kilo is slightly cooler but actually a little more natural color then the vortex.

 

[JW74]

I was out at the range again this past weekend and was easily able to range steel out to 1675 yards off hand on scan mode (farthest I had). The distance were confirmed by my come ups on my scope when shooting. Glass was nice and clear to my eyes. I also hit some cows 1000 yards, a pick up truck at 1800 yards, and a helicopter that flew over at 606 yards, all offhand.

 

[catorres1]

I was out at the range again this past weekend and was easily able to range steel out to 1675 yards off hand on scan mode (farthest I had). The distance were confirmed by my come ups on my scope when shooting. Glass was nice and clear to my eyes. I also hit some cows 1000 yards, a pick up truck at 1800 yards, and a helicopter that flew over at 606 yards, all offhand.

That's awesome on the steel, the local range I use only goes to 1391 on steel, so I have not had an opportunity to try out the 3k any farther. It was easily done there handheld, but the target was pretty big. How big was that piece of steel you hit at 1675?

 

[JW74]

That's awesome on the steel, the local range I use only goes to 1391 on steel, so I have not had an opportunity to try out the 3k any farther. It was easily done there handheld, but the target was pretty big. How big was that piece of steel you hit at 1675?

Catorres, the steel was fairly big. I meant to Mil it but was told it was ~ 24"x24". I find that when I rest these binos on a sandbag, pack, etc that they will pick up some pretty small targets at distance in scan mode as long as you know where your laser is inside the reticle as you mentioned.

 

[tke466]

Big let down for me... mine just showed up after however many weeks and there is a crack in reticle. Working through it with Sig but they already cautioned on the shortage of product to get me a replacement.

 

[K_4c]

So.... the bad (imo)

Diopters are way to easy to move, display gets washed out a bit in sunlight (even in the highest setting) , The range and mode buttons need more texture to easily find them without looking and lastly, no lense caps.

What are you guys getting for lense caps?

The good, links up with my 701 Foretrex easily, data is returned very fast, fairly clean glass, easy to get behind.

For the coin, it’s a nice buy. That being said, where’s the lense caps?!

 

[catorres1]

Gotta say...yeah...lens caps. They should be included, or at least available. I am told Viper ones work perfectly. I got a set for Furys, they don't fit all that well...the caps themselves do, but the attachment loops are a little too big and slip off easily. I'm going to try a set for Vipers and see if they are better. But I agree, this is something Sig should be supplying, no doubt.

 

[JeremyV]

Gotta say...yeah...lens caps. They should be included, or at least available. I am told Viper ones work perfectly. I got a set for Furys, they don't fit all that well...the caps themselves do, but the attachment loops are a little too big and slip off easily. I'm going to try a set for Vipers and see if they are better. But I agree, this is something Sig should be supplying, no doubt.

I'm actually 3d printing rubber caps for the ocular and using Butler Creek on the front.

If anyone is interested in getting some let me know.

 

[K_4c]

I'm actually 3d printing rubber caps for the ocular and using Butler Creek on the front.

If anyone is interested in getting some let me know.

Attached some pics of your product. I may be interested ?

 

[JeremyV]

I'll get some photos this weekend I should be getting the black printer filliment by then.

Right now I just have dark blue and it doesn't look all that great. They work amazing though.

I have a loop on one side that you run through your strap I can make it on either the right or left side. Depending on what you want.

 

[K_4c]

I'll get some photos this weekend I should be getting the black printer filliment by then.

Right now I just have dark blue and it doesn't look all that great. They work amazing though.

I have a loop on one side that you run through your strap I can make it on either the right or left side. Depending on what you want.

All I care about is fit and function.

I’m interested. And if you come up with a better solution for the obj lens (I hate butler caps) I’d be interested in those as well.

 

[JeremyV]

All I care about is fit and function.

I’m interested. And if you come up with a better solution for the obj lens (I hate butler caps) I’d be interested in those as well.

I can make almost anything so let me know what you want and I'll draw something up in CAD.

 

[K_4c]

I can make almost anything so let me know what you want and I'll draw something up in CAD.

Pending price of course, ocular one piece caps... 2 piece objective caps.

Material you use flexible in the cold?

 

[JeremyV]

Pending price of course, ocular one piece caps... 2 piece objective caps.

Material you use flexible in the cold?

Here is the rough prototype. And yes flexible even in the cold

 

[flyer]

I'm interested.

Also, which Butler Creek caps did you use?

 

[5RWill]

Here is the rough prototype. And yes flexible even in the cold

Uh yeah keep me posted on these, please sir.

 

[K_4c]

Here is the rough prototype. And yes flexible even in the cold

Yep, I’m in for a set. Those look great.

Does it slide over the diopter? Or just butt up to them?

 

[JeremyV]

Yep, I’m in for a set. Those look great.

Does it slide over the diopter? Or just butt up to them?

I made them both ways and I prefer the ones that slide over the Doppler the are faster to get on and off and still stay secure. The Doppler is slightly bigger so the slide on up to there and then just a little push and they slip over the Doppler and are just tight enough to keep them secure.

On a side note my wife was driving yesterday and I decided to try and range things from the car and was able to get returns in scan mode up to 960 yards on trees while we were going 60mph I was impressed to say the least.

 

[K_4c]

I made them both ways and I prefer the ones that slide over the Doppler the are faster to get on and off and still stay secure. The Doppler is slightly bigger so the slide on up to there and then just a little push and they slip over the Doppler and are just tight enough to keep them secure.

On a side note my wife was driving yesterday and I decided to try and range things from the car and was able to get returns in scan mode up to 960 yards on trees while we were going 60mph I was impressed to say the least.

Good stuff. I’ll take a set

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

So workflow wise, is it the same as with the Kestrel? That is leave Foretrex on, power up RF, they reconnect automatically....range, and the solution feeds back and displays in the RF?

Also, with the Kestrel, compass heading is not sent, at least not on the 2400, maybe the 3000 has a compass, I dont know. So DOF has to be set manually. Is it different with the Foretrex, in otherwords, will the Foretrex automatically take a compass reading based on your facing direction, or does that have to be actuated manually before ranging?

DOF is set through the Garmin, you have to do it manually because its on your wrist and may not be oriented correctly when you laser the target. However it does have a quick edit function which can do it quickly.

 

[thegrayham]

Does anyone know of a vendor with these in stock? Midway and Brownells list them $959.99 but have no ETA an no back order allowed and Optics Planet has them for $1043.89 with an estimated ship date of 12 to 21 days. Are they that scarce, have money burning a hole if you know what I mean!

 

[JeremyV]

Does anyone know of a vendor with these in stock? Midway and Brownells list them $959.99 but have no ETA an no back order allowed and Optics Planet has them for $1043.89 with an estimated ship date of 12 to 21 days. Are they that scarce, have money burning a hole if you know what I mean!

I know my local gun shop has one in stock and I'm sure they will ship

 

[thegrayham]

I know my local gun shop has one in stock and I'm sure they will ship

I tried a local shop and sure enough they can get me one quick and for a good price.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

Here’s the spotting setup I’ll be running at my first match this weekend. From my experience this ranges reliably past 3000y and I’ve not used a piece of civilian kit this capable. I used the binos yesterday spotting 6.5CM and 308 impacts on steel at 1000y; compared to my Bushnell spotting scope at 45x it’s really impressive. They are tripod mounted with a Vortex tripod adapter and, fwiw, the nylon tripod stuff is Cole-Tac.

 

[JeremyV]

Here’s the spotting setup I’ll be running at my first match this weekend. From my experience this ranges reliably past 3000y and I’ve not used a piece of civilian kit this capable. I used the binos yesterday spotting 6.5CM and 308 impacts on steel at 1000y; compared to my Bushnell spotting scope at 45x it’s really impressive. They are tripod mounted with a Vortex tripod adapter and, fwiw, the nylon tripod stuff is Cole-Tac.

View attachment 7068082

That should work excellent! My tripod adapter showed up today and I'll check it out when I get home. I was spotting 223 hits on steel out to 500 hand held at a match last weekend and it worked great! The tripod adapter should make it easer to see trace though. I saw trace most of the time but not every time.

 

[IntoTransonic]

What is the realistic range on a 36 x36 piece of steel. Not a car or house but a steel target.

It seems like a very impressive piece of equipment.
Thanks
Chris

 

[JeremyV]

What is the realistic range on a 36 x36 piece of steel. Not a car or house but a steel target.

It seems like a very impressive piece of equipment.
Thanks
Chris

I think you should be hitting 2000 yards without any trouble. Probably farther I get 2000 on trees and stuff all the time in any condition. I've got 3600 on trees that are in the shade.