Hey guys I know this is a stupid question as I've already found out you get what you pay for! Right now I'm running a millet LRS and have found that I wasted money I knew better than to waste! I have been recommended to try out sightron s3 or vortex viper pst. I want a nightforce atacR but just don't have the funds right now so what is y'all's recommendations, get one of the two mentioned above or three months till income tax and get the nightforce atacR and be done? If I can get by with one I can get now it would be great either the sightron or the vortex as I am wanting to do some long range deer hunting this fall/winter. Thanks guys.
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Rifle Scopes Sightron S3 or vortex viper pst?
- Thread starter tacsniper0888
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- vortex sightron
I think that you'll do fine with either scope. Let me just ask what caliber you are shooting, as there has been some noise about the PSTs not being able to handle the heavies like .338. I'm not one of those crying and have no experience with the PST myself, so cannot lead you to or away from it with any conscience. I know that I bought one of the new SIIIs in FFP from Scott at Liberty Optics and am quite happy with it.
Full disclosure: This is the most expensive scope I've owned to date and while I've looked through a few of the finer high end scopes at the range I've not owned one...yet.
Full disclosure: This is the most expensive scope I've owned to date and while I've looked through a few of the finer high end scopes at the range I've not owned one...yet.
If you want the Nightforce and will be able to afford it in 3 months, I'd save up and wait for that. Having gone through multiple upgrade cycles it is MUCH cheaper and less hassle to just wait and buy what you really want, not go up the ladder $200 at a time.
Otherwise, if you want SFP (which I assume you do if an ATACR is your ideal) then I think the Sightron is better in terms of optical and construction quality, based on having owned four SIII's, three of which I still own and am keeping, and several Viper PST's, the last of which is up for sale. The PST is certainly a decent scope, I just think the SIII is better made. I've been using a 6-24x50 SIII for F/TR competition with no scope problems of any kind.
Otherwise, if you want SFP (which I assume you do if an ATACR is your ideal) then I think the Sightron is better in terms of optical and construction quality, based on having owned four SIII's, three of which I still own and am keeping, and several Viper PST's, the last of which is up for sale. The PST is certainly a decent scope, I just think the SIII is better made. I've been using a 6-24x50 SIII for F/TR competition with no scope problems of any kind.
I guess that would be good info. It's going on a remington 700 5R in .308 with a steel 20moa one piece rail although it will be going on my .338 edge build when it gets done. It also wears a nightforce one piece 20moa rail. I would like to keep it under $1,000 if possible but I'm tired of dicking around with "value" scopes! Want to get a good one and be done! And second focal plane is fine as I will be using a Bushnell elite 1,500 rangefinder. And knights armament bullet flight app for firing solution and nightforce exbal program on PDA. How are the adjustments on the sightron and the vortex? Are the smooth? Do they have zero stop capability? Do they lock? I don't want caps over the adjustment knobs? Only external knobs. I want to be able to shoot to 1,000 yards with the .308 on deer and when I get the .338 edge built a mile on steel targets. What power would be good for that? What objective? Want a lot of light gathering capability as well as zoom but zoom is useless after so much a lot of times due to mirage. Like the MOAR reticle on nightforce for lead and wind holds at distance without making adjustments for quick on the fly corrections. Thanks guys.
If zero stop is a not a must for you, the Bushnell Tactical Elite 6-24x50 comes in FFP with a illuminated mil-dot or BTR-Mil, non illuminated G2DMR (my favorite reticle), and SFP mil-dot.
Glass is closer to the Sightron in quality (that means good), lifetime warranty (like the Sightron and the Vortex).
Joe
Glass is closer to the Sightron in quality (that means good), lifetime warranty (like the Sightron and the Vortex).
Joe
Scudzuki thanks for the info. Would an 8-32/56 be too much or would a 6-24 be plenty? I'm kinda wanting the larger objective for low light shots. Does the sightron have zero stop? I know the vortex viper does. What size tube is on the Bushnell, 30 or 34mm? Also what is the G2DMR reticule? Is it a moa/moa scope?
The Sightron does not have a zero stop. All the scopes you've mentioned (except the ATACR) have 30mm tubes. The G2 DMR reticle is a very nice mil-based reticle with a windage tree. I don't think Bushnell offers any MOA based reticles. None of these have locking turrets, and only the PST has zero stop. I don't think the 8-32x56mm would be excessive for your stated goals, in fact I think that or similar is the way to go if you want to use the scope out to 1 mile on a later rifle. I personally rank the turrets for feel and ease of use as SIII > Bushnell > PST, but it's just opinions and people like different things. The SIII turrets are the most likely to get bumped out of position from rough handling, though.
You're really asking for a lot of high-end features and I think you'd be happier waiting and getting the ATACR.
You're really asking for a lot of high-end features and I think you'd be happier waiting and getting the ATACR.
Hey someotherguy, I'm starting to like/lean towards the sightron for these reasons: price, higher magnification, and 56mm objective. My question though is how many moa of adjustment does the 8-32/55 s3 have? I know the higher you go in magnification you sacrifice in adjustment range. Although the sightron has the magnification and the glass to get me to a mile, with a 20moa rail does it have enough internal adjustment or do I need to get a 40moa rail to be able to make hits at a mile with this scope? Also how will a 40moa rail affect my 100 yard zero or will I have to do an extended range zero? What if I decide to push the .308 out to a mile on steel targets, will a 20moa rail be sufficient there with this scope or again will I need a 40moa. The .338 edge definitely has a LOT more OOMPH than the .308. Also does the 8-32/56 s3 have a moa based reticle similar to the MOAR or NP-R1 or NP-R2? Thanks again guys.
Sightron says 70 MOA of elevation adjustment on the 8-32x56:
Sightron Riflescopes SIII Series SIIISS832X56LRMOA
I can't offer much predictions on the 338 Edge, or on getting to a mile with a .308 Win. I would probably use a 20 MOA base with this scope on a .308 Win if I was going for 1000 yards. I don't think that scope is going to take a .308 Win to a mile even with a 40 MOA base, but I don't have a ballistics calculator that I trust for subsonic extreme range so I don't really know. I'd be considering a USO SN-9 if I wanted a .308 Win at a mile... or just using a cartridge meant for that.
US Optics SN-9 Rifle Scope - SN-9 Riflescope On Sale - EuroOptic.com
Sightron Riflescopes SIII Series SIIISS832X56LRMOA
I can't offer much predictions on the 338 Edge, or on getting to a mile with a .308 Win. I would probably use a 20 MOA base with this scope on a .308 Win if I was going for 1000 yards. I don't think that scope is going to take a .308 Win to a mile even with a 40 MOA base, but I don't have a ballistics calculator that I trust for subsonic extreme range so I don't really know. I'd be considering a USO SN-9 if I wanted a .308 Win at a mile... or just using a cartridge meant for that.
US Optics SN-9 Rifle Scope - SN-9 Riflescope On Sale - EuroOptic.com
Or should I get the 10-50/60? Or does it not have enough internal adjustment to reach out that far? Thanks.
The 10-50x60mm SIII is basically a benchrest or F-class scope. They list 14.7 mils or 50 MOA of elevation travel. You aren't taking a .308 to a mile with it. Check out that SN-9.
I checked out the sn9....can someone call NASA and tell them I found their Hubble telescope!!! Lol. Talk about heavy and gaudy that would be a bench scope only! No way I could lug that around in the woods and I don't even want to know the price. Lol. I think I've got it narrowed down to the s3 8-32 or a viper pst or razor hd or atacR.
I had a Sightron S111 8x32x56mm scope. I couldn't see the advantage that 56mm bell gave me. Glass was fine,I wish I bought the 6x24x50mm instead. Which I eventually plan on doing.
Iron worker, did it not help any with extra light gathering for low light shooting like long range hunting applications? What about the extra zoom being able to zoom in on an extended distance target like a deer at a thousand? Or is 24X fine for hunting deer at a 1,000 yards? Thanks guys.
Are you really gonna attempt to shoot a deer at 1000 yards? Theres to much that could go wrong to be ethical. Thats just my opinion. I have a 6-24x50 pst and I cant imagine shooting a deer at 1000 yards with it.
Really? You are hunting deer at 1000 yds? Or was that just bait to see if we are paying attention?
I have sold my PST and bought another Sightron. I use S3 10-50x60 on F-Class guns and S2 BigSky 6.5-20x50 on long range hunting rig due to weight and covered knobs.
I wouldn't go with more magnification than the 6-24 in the Bushnell. The optics pull off 24 okay but not 30. My guess is the Sightron, having glass in the same class, is probably best in the 6-24 too.
I usually end up using roughly 18x anyway. I seldom dial up to the max, even with my Steiner 5-25 or the S&B 5-25 and March 3-24 I sold. You are more likely to miss FOV at the low end by going too big with the mag range then you are to miss top end by limiting yourself to "only" 24x.
Joe
Somebody finally bought the SN-9 off Samplelist. I can't believe it.
USOptics 10-42x58 SN9-2B Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Joe
Yes I'm really going to attempt it. There is no difference in throwing 175 grains of lead at a deer at a 1,000 and a 400 grain arrow at 300fps at 40 yards in 15-20mph winds??? People are killing animals at extended distances daily. There is a whole new realm of possibilities with today's optics and bullet technology. Also guys if I get this S3 8-32/56 should I get the 1/4moa tactical (exposed) turrets or the target (capped) turrets being as it could see some "use" not necessarily abuse but it will get used and the S3 turrets do not have zero stop or a physical lock? Thanks again guys.
Wow, that was a really good price on that SN-9!
I use a 6-24x50 Sightron for F/TR and also tend to use it at only 16-18x. Sometimes 20x in really good conditions. The scope is useable at 24x but the exit pupil is small, and mirage and brightness become an issue. Would probably work great 30 minutes after dawn in a desert. Clarity at a reasonable magnification is more useful than higher magnification with less clarity. Bonus is that the 6-24x model has 100 MOA of elevation adjustment, vs. 70 in the 8-32 and 50 in the 10-50.
I use a 6-24x50 Sightron for F/TR and also tend to use it at only 16-18x. Sometimes 20x in really good conditions. The scope is useable at 24x but the exit pupil is small, and mirage and brightness become an issue. Would probably work great 30 minutes after dawn in a desert. Clarity at a reasonable magnification is more useful than higher magnification with less clarity. Bonus is that the 6-24x model has 100 MOA of elevation adjustment, vs. 70 in the 8-32 and 50 in the 10-50.
Thanks for all the great info guys! Now I just need two more answers and I will be buying one! Sightron it is! Now the only thing I need to know is capped or uncapped turrets to go on a long range tactical/hunting rifle? And what power would be better for the same, 6-24/50 with 100moa or 8-32/56 with 70 moa? It will be sitting on top of a 20moa base and I live in northwest tn some slightly rolling hills but mainly Mississippi River delta flat farmland as far as the eye can see and it may go out west to Idaho at some point to go elk hunting with a buddy of mine that lives out there. Suggestions please and I will be ordering one today or tomorrow!
Before you do something as irresponsible as shooting at an animal at over 500 yards get on the line at a few F class matches with your rifle and see just how hard it is to put your first round on target. A deer has about 10" vital zone, some bigger animals have more. If you want to target shoot then target shoot, if you want to hunt then learn to hunt, which implies learning enough skill to get close enough to take an ethical shot, and if you want to be a sniper go see your local recruiter and sign up to serve.
I hunt and shoot deer every yr and I also shoot thousands of rounds on targets at long range. What you are proposing to do is at best irresponsible, and at worst negligent, cruel, and stupid.
I'll offer you another challenge, before you sling lead at a white tail at 1000 yards. I'll challenge you to show up at my range with your hunting rig and take one shot, no sighters at a 1000 yards on an F class target. Hit the 10 ring and I pay you $500, miss you pay me.
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Good challenge. I have similar thoughts. In F/TR I've had good luck (so far) putting my first sighter in the 8 or 9 ring. But I wouldn't shoot a deer at more than 300 yards, tops, unless I was starving. F-class targets have a well defined shape, high contrast, don't move, and the only penalty for a bad hit is not liking your score. When someone starts putting 1 MOA target dots over the heart of deer and keeps them still while I line up and shoot and wait for the bullet to impact, then I'll think about shooting them at F-class distances.
No offense intended to the very few people who have the combination of hunting skills and marksmanship to make responsible long distance shots on game animals. That's a much smaller group than the people who can get hits on paper or steel "most of the time" at similar distances.
OP, I'd get covered turrets for your use.
I have consistently shot 1moa at 500 yards on steel plates and shot two deer 500-550 already with my bone stock remington 700 sendero .338 win mag with 180gr nosler ballistic tips loaded to sammi specs in the manual. 500 is the new 100 for most guys on here. Yes a deer's vital area is 1moa at a thousand yards and by the time you factor wind(up to three at that distance), Coriolanus effect, spin drift, and all the other variables; breather, trigger control, heart rate, it is a VERY difficult shot which is why not everyone attempts it. 500 and 1,000 are two totally different stadiums for most guys 500 is a tough shot, now double the difficult and variables if not triple them! It is a challenge which is why I'm pursuing it! Bow hunting was a challenge which is why I pursued it. I know how to hunt and closer is always better/more ethical, BUT it can be done! People do it every day, and I will be one of those by the end of deer season hopefully!
Thanks some other guy. I was thinking the same thing. Now for the decision of 6-24 or 8-32? It will be on two different rifles so tough call. Waiting to see what everyone's general consensus is!
Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP Illuminated EBR-1 MOA Reticle
I have one on my 338LM and it works awesomely and for the money you cannot beat it plus the warranty is the best in the business... Good Luck.
I have one on my 338LM and it works awesomely and for the money you cannot beat it plus the warranty is the best in the business... Good Luck.
not sure what this is, but not bending over to find out.
but on a more serious note, I have two sightron siii 6-24x50 lrmd and they are excellent for the money and sometimes go really cheap used. I picked mine up for $500 each used, but both look like new and have not had a single problem.
Thanks guys. And coriolis effect. Damn auto correct. Lol. I'm leaning more towards the 6-24 now I think. It's also cheaper. An illuminated reticle would be nice and the viper also has zerostop.
Most likely it is a "don't feed the troll" situation... We are obviously dealing with a highly accredited marksman and operator!
No I'm not a "troll" not am I an operator. Yes I'm a fairly decent shot and call it luck if you want but I have killed two deer one at 505 and one at 538 according to my Bushnell elite 1500 LRF. I'm no trained sniper never been in the military and new at long range hunting. But it is a growing sport that is really catching on. And it interests me highly. All I ask for were people's honest opinions and preferences on scope selection from personal experice so I can try and narrow down which one will best suit my needs as no scope is perfect for everything. You have to make sacrifices here to get gains there so to speak. Just want honest recommendations. Not people jumping down my throat like a pack of wolves! We're all shooters and gun nuts here guys. That's why we're all on this site. If your not a gun nut I don't know why you would even be on this site. Thanks for all the "helpful" info guys.
Hey tacsniper0888!! I have two things to say to you. First is save your money and get the NF scope because it's sounds like that's what you really want. Iv'e gone through the same dilemma of being practical and buying a lower end scope because I really couldn't justify spending all those bucks when there was something else that would due for less $$, but in the long run I ended up buying what I really wanted and ended up practically giving away the others, so in the long run I ended up loosing what I was trying to save $$.
The second thing I want to tell you is "DON'T DO IT" Iv'e been hunting all my life and it's not necessary to shoot at a deer or any other living animal at such a long distance and take a chance of wounding the animal and having it die an agonizing death only because you want the thrill of making the shot. Iv'e seen the videos and it's amazing but at the same time I just knew that one of those animals wound wonder off wounded, but I guess they would not show that of course. I tell you if I was a game warden and I saw somebody doing that I would be allover their ass. It's not only un-ethical it's irresponsible.... that's just my opinion and I'm sure there others here that would tell you the same.......
One of the best posts in this thread. When I read about throwing .308 Winchester a mile at steel I almost choked on my coffee. it can be done but the scope mounts will be pretty damn tall or the hold over will be like a moon shot. BTW, I've found the Sightron 6-24x50 LRMOA-MOA2 in SFP to be a very good piece of glass with a simple but effective reticule. Very good in low light as well.
Quote Originally Posted by tacsniper0888
Coriolanus effect,
Quote 2Guard
not sure what this is, but not bending over to find out.
Second best post in this thread
That one did cause me to choke on my coffee and near cover the keyboard with it while laughing.
Coriolanus effect,
Quote 2Guard
not sure what this is, but not bending over to find out.
Second best post in this thread
That one did cause me to choke on my coffee and near cover the keyboard with it while laughing.
I got a vortex hs lr 6-24x50 ffp with the xlr reticle and has performed well for me both hunting and in the comp I have shot.
Now to the long range stuff that really depends on where you live out here where there are 3 or 4 trees every hundred or so miles 300 yards can be a quite average shot distance. Now do I think people should be taking that shot probally not but circumstances out here make it happen. My brother moved to NC from SD and when talking about deer hunting they thought he was crazy shooting at deer over 50 yds away. That why I think region plays a lot into what one guy thinks is long range and the other guy thinks average
Now to the long range stuff that really depends on where you live out here where there are 3 or 4 trees every hundred or so miles 300 yards can be a quite average shot distance. Now do I think people should be taking that shot probally not but circumstances out here make it happen. My brother moved to NC from SD and when talking about deer hunting they thought he was crazy shooting at deer over 50 yds away. That why I think region plays a lot into what one guy thinks is long range and the other guy thinks average
If you don't need illumination or the zero stop it's almost a no brainer. For resolution and clarity, I'd take a SIII over a PST everyday of the week. I had a 6-24 SIII initially and upgraded to the 8-32x56 for F/TR. I've found that both optics were very crisp and the tracking was 100% repeatable. The parallax knob is a bit stiff on the SIII's, but I've found the parallax to be very forgiving when moving from 300-500-600yds. When comparing both of my 4-16 and 6-24 PST's to the SIII 6-24/8-32 (at the same magnification) both SIII's had much higher resolution and seemed brighter. After Christmas, I'll be purchasing a 6-24SIII FFP for my .260 build.
To my eyes, the SIII glass is very very close to the NF NXS glass, just in a slightly less robust configuration.
As far as long shots on animals, I wouldn't seriously consider a shot past 600yds. It's not hard to hit a 6-10" target at 600 when you shoot it routinely, in dynamic wind conditions, but things get very different as you get beyond 700/800yds for a 308. XTR knows his stuff and is giving great advice.
To my eyes, the SIII glass is very very close to the NF NXS glass, just in a slightly less robust configuration.
As far as long shots on animals, I wouldn't seriously consider a shot past 600yds. It's not hard to hit a 6-10" target at 600 when you shoot it routinely, in dynamic wind conditions, but things get very different as you get beyond 700/800yds for a 308. XTR knows his stuff and is giving great advice.
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Thanks tripleD! It's looking more and more like sightron in 6-24FFP MOA-2 for accurate wind holds! For targets at a thousand is there really a need for the 8-32? It is nice to see in detail what you're shooting at but sometimes magnification blurs clarity. And to mr. Swede, my actual name is Paul Bunyan, I'm a "BIG" dick in case you haven't heard of me and trees fear me! They fall away from me when I enter the woods!!! But thanks again for your "HELPFUL" advice, jackass!
Guys on a more serious note I have a technical question no one in the D.I.Y. boards can seem to answer. Is there anyway or does any of the guys on here make a shim for a zero stop for the S3 series of scopes from sightron like some of the guys are doing on the leupold mk4's? If I could make a homemade zero stop or get one from one of the guys on here it would be a no brainer to get the S3 since it has better glass but the zero stop is a big plus! Also the vortex has 1moa subtensions in the reticle whereas the S3 has 2moa subtensions! I would like the better glass though and the larger objective! I can get the S3 or viper pst in FFP. Is there a way to make a zero stop for this scope? Also is there a way to make a zero stop for the millet I'm currently running? Thanks guys!!!
There's a thread on here somewhere where a guy got a plastic washer and trimmed it to the right height, then put it under the turret on his SIII and it worked as a shim zero stop system.
Thanks guys. That's what I was needing to know. Now if someone could just find that thread and post a link to it lol.
lol.Thanks guys. That's what I was needing to know. Now if someone could just find that thread and post a link to it
I pulled a pic link from my GTalk history with a friend: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ightron-siii-vs-nightforce-siii-zero-stop.jpg
Can't seem to locate the thread though.
I found the thread guys. Thanks!!! Goin with the sightron. Now to figure out a power range. What's everyone's general consensus from my comments above about what it's intended purpose is; 8-32/56 or 6-24/56??? Thanks again guys! Y'all are a great help!!!
