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Silencer Shop News Update: ATF eForms Launch Imminent!
- Thread starter SilencerShop
- Start date
About 6 months (180 days) according to our tracker ( https://www.silencershop.com/atf-wait-times ) we've gotten quite a few receipts from around that timeframe ( )
Just received the last approval from 5 Eforms submitted on February 18th.
First approval on 7/29 and last on 9/6. Thank god we have an efficient computerized system now.
First approval on 7/29 and last on 9/6. Thank god we have an efficient computerized system now.
From what i understand (just internet reading...i have 0 experience otherwise) it seems a large majority of the problem, now at least, is at the background check done by the FBI. I dont understand the hangup but I have a few theories.
One theory is that since we're stuck in the NFA association, the background check has to be more exhaustive and something similar to getting suitability clearance to work on a government project containing sensitive information which can take a couple weeks (side note...having said clearance does not help expedite the approval process). However, I would think they could gain some efficiencies there by either adding a flag in the FBI system for individuals that have cleared a check within the past, say 6 months, which could then be linked to the ATF system. This implementation would mean that as soon as the ATF examiner gets the form they could run a check against the FBI system, validate the individual was recently cleared, and boom...insta-approval. Alternatively, since the forms are now distributed digitally, they could link multiple forms based on name / social number. Then its one check and they'd all get cleared. However, as we here know, "efficiency" is not a word in the government vocabulary.
The eForms system, from what i have seen, is kind of cludgey. They are essentially running an imbedded PDF engine but the form remains the same. Those systems can be kind of buggey due in part to the amount of resources required for rendering + processing...as we've seen. It would have been a nicer / more reliable design if they'd updated the eForm submission to be more of a standard web form with traditional text fields, boxes, and radios like those digital firearm transfer forms at the big retailers. Plus, it probably would have been less overhead from a development perspective to have gone that route. I'm arm chair quarterbacking and making a lot of assumptions about how their backend systems work though.
The current eForms implementation does address one of the previous lags in the process which was the literal mailing of forms between the agencies. I understand the previous process as; the ATF would get the form, it'd sit until an examiner was assigned, reviewed, sit until a batch worthy enough was stacked, batch mailed to the FBI, sit until an FBI investigator was assigned, checked, validated, then mailed back, sit until the examiner picked it up again, reviewed, approved, stamp assigned, mailed. Each one of those "sit and waits" was probably 1-2 months.
Anyway, I think the eForms system is a decent start to resolving a broken system. I think / hope we'll continue to see the eForms submissions be ~2x faster than the paper forms as evident in the timelines (200 days vs 400 days). A few additional changes in the interaction between the agencies would make it better and expedite the process though.
....or they could just remove suppressors from the NFA act since they dont really belong there and are, IMO, safety items similar in nature to earplugs...but they're scary and according to the movies will make firearms as quiet as rubber band slapping your wrist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They also generate tax revenue that can be erroneously used for things that it shouldnt be...like subsidizing student loan debt or padding a politicians wallet.
One theory is that since we're stuck in the NFA association, the background check has to be more exhaustive and something similar to getting suitability clearance to work on a government project containing sensitive information which can take a couple weeks (side note...having said clearance does not help expedite the approval process). However, I would think they could gain some efficiencies there by either adding a flag in the FBI system for individuals that have cleared a check within the past, say 6 months, which could then be linked to the ATF system. This implementation would mean that as soon as the ATF examiner gets the form they could run a check against the FBI system, validate the individual was recently cleared, and boom...insta-approval. Alternatively, since the forms are now distributed digitally, they could link multiple forms based on name / social number. Then its one check and they'd all get cleared. However, as we here know, "efficiency" is not a word in the government vocabulary.
The eForms system, from what i have seen, is kind of cludgey. They are essentially running an imbedded PDF engine but the form remains the same. Those systems can be kind of buggey due in part to the amount of resources required for rendering + processing...as we've seen. It would have been a nicer / more reliable design if they'd updated the eForm submission to be more of a standard web form with traditional text fields, boxes, and radios like those digital firearm transfer forms at the big retailers. Plus, it probably would have been less overhead from a development perspective to have gone that route. I'm arm chair quarterbacking and making a lot of assumptions about how their backend systems work though.
The current eForms implementation does address one of the previous lags in the process which was the literal mailing of forms between the agencies. I understand the previous process as; the ATF would get the form, it'd sit until an examiner was assigned, reviewed, sit until a batch worthy enough was stacked, batch mailed to the FBI, sit until an FBI investigator was assigned, checked, validated, then mailed back, sit until the examiner picked it up again, reviewed, approved, stamp assigned, mailed. Each one of those "sit and waits" was probably 1-2 months.
Anyway, I think the eForms system is a decent start to resolving a broken system. I think / hope we'll continue to see the eForms submissions be ~2x faster than the paper forms as evident in the timelines (200 days vs 400 days). A few additional changes in the interaction between the agencies would make it better and expedite the process though.
....or they could just remove suppressors from the NFA act since they dont really belong there and are, IMO, safety items similar in nature to earplugs...but they're scary and according to the movies will make firearms as quiet as rubber band slapping your wrist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They also generate tax revenue that can be erroneously used for things that it shouldnt be...like subsidizing student loan debt or padding a politicians wallet.
Sandman s, nomad l, Cgs hydra, and cgs mod9. It would be nice if they would do batch approvals on forms submitted on the same day. Seems like it would simplify things as well. Have you seen any batch approvals on eforms?
That's a solid roster of suppressors, you're covered from rimfires up to magnum calibers! We have seen customers and dealers post about batch approvals, they don't seem to be super common, but they do happen. - Chase
Hey IBT good question, each application is individually numbered and are generally approved individually.
thanks for the response. i should have guessed that considering my experience dealing with the inefficiency of government agencies. lol
Ordered.................. 11/23/21
Ready to Certify.....02/09/22
Email Approval.......09/13/22
216 days from certification
294 days from order date
Better than the paper form 4, but I was beginning to wonder whether the paper form I have pending would win the race.
Ready to Certify.....02/09/22
Email Approval.......09/13/22
216 days from certification
294 days from order date
Better than the paper form 4, but I was beginning to wonder whether the paper form I have pending would win the race.
216 days on an efile approval is not something to get excited about. Unless you're the guy who was approved. And he should have been approved 3 months ago
Totally hear you, while we can't speak on how the ATF chooses to process applications, we like to celebrate when folks get approvals.
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I'm a 12/1 but i'm pretty sure it's paper. I think i missed the eforms hold for submission by like 3 days. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm pessimistically optimistic that the eforms backlog will start to move quicker considering i 'think' the bulk of the eforms submissions were Februarys. If memory serves they held a bunch and then flooded the queue. I have to hope anyway since my eforms certify's are 4/27+.
Then again, this is the government so who knows.
I'm pessimistically optimistic that the eforms backlog will start to move quicker considering i 'think' the bulk of the eforms submissions were Februarys. If memory serves they held a bunch and then flooded the queue. I have to hope anyway since my eforms certify's are 4/27+.
Then again, this is the government so who knows.
I’d be surprised if things sped up anytime soon with eforms all but coming to a stop and the approval times increasing daily. I’ve only consistently seen February and some March approvals in the last few months, all the while submissions keep pouring in. By the time they clean up paper forms and decide to get back to eforms the backlog is going to be massive.
I have 3 cans March 4th and a magnus May 4th, I’ll be lucky to get the magnus by the end of the year at this rate and that’s the one I want the most.
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I hear you. I've been watching the approval threads slogging through. I have 2 on paper from December that are probably going to beat my 3 on eforms from early May. Oh well.
In two more weeks, I will be right at a one year wait for a Dominus. So getting one from December seems optimistic, but who knows?
?i have two from 03/17. just curious to know what control numbers and dates the atf are working on. btw, my congressional rep is contacting the atf to ask that question and to also ask why the efiles are slowing down. i have also asked that they find out why the atf people answering the phone only provide a “ pending status” when you call. i have been told by atf personnel answering the phone that is the only info they have access to. my question is, if you don’t have access to all pertinent info to be able to answer my questions, then why are you answering the phone ? but then again maybe i’m using too much logic, critical thinking and rational thought. what am i thinking, after all i am dealing with a government agency. duh.
It’s obvious since they’re still working on February and the approval times are constantly getting pushed back. Rumor has it so they can get the paper forms finished.
My one lone (and final) paper stamp cashed the first week of December 2021 will be glad to hear this news in three to six more months.
Can add March now…
Just saw a March 1 2022 submission on Reddit with an October 1 2022 approval…
I think I certified in March technically because it took forever to just be able to do that plus I wasn’t even aware of it till I called in and checked with SilencerShop and that’s when they explained the whole certifying thing that I wasn’t even aware was part of the process
I would be happy to look at your submission and check it out, Forrest. Usually, orders get certified in less than 3 weeks, we're sorry that your experience was longer than that. I'll share an image of all of the steps: Here, to avoid confusion about what's next. I'll send you a DM to get your info. - Chase
Per Capital Armory on the Reddit NFA sub:
This makes sense, as we heard several months ago on Vortex's podcast that when eForms launched, the examiners were more or less split between finishing approvals of paper Form 4s (which had already backed up before this point) and processing the new eForms (of which I'm sure there was an avalanche because of various unrealistic estimated wait times). And note that this is different than the issue affecting February '22 applications.
There are at least 3-4 months of paper F4s remaining in the system at this time (based upon personal experience and ), and so that hints at a conclusion of paper forms around the end of this year. Then the newly-formed clog of eForms will need to be addressed.
I don't see this mess resolved before the middle of next year.
While i have no direct evidence to corroborate your assessment, from what i'm seeing, this is 100% spot on.
Watching the various approval threads, I think we'll see the 2021 paper forms thin out mid-late next month (at least I hope cause i've got a couple paper forms on a 12/1 certify date...i'm unlucky). As it stands, I'm seeing a number of late October and Novembers getting approved. Although that's not saying a whole lot cause there's everything from august through november ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Then there's the deluge of eforms though. Those things are at a CRAWL now. Given the promise of the golden "90 day approval time" (remember that teaser of a 7 day approval...), a lot of folks jumped in (myself included). By the time they get the papers cleared (December timeframe), they'll still be processing the March eforms. Unless they turn and burn on those, expect a 1:1 month approval which means 7 months or so until THAT backlogs cleared.
....and all my eforms are early May...my timing is terrible.
Made another eform 4 purchase last week through the kiosk and certified yesterday. At the end of the phone call the dealer said eventually when it’s approved and I come to pick it up they want a printed copy of the trust and the stamp for their records. Sounds pretty shady to me since no other dealer has asked for a copy of the trust AFTER approval and I’m pretty sure they don’t get copies of the stamp to keep either. My thoughts are this shop was told by the sheriff to make a list of the NFA types in the county. I could be wrong but I don’t plan to provide them anything like that after the form 4 has been approved.
Edited for autocorrect typo
Edited for autocorrect typo
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I guess I should have rephrased. I know they get the email about the approval when it happens and it’s also updated in the portal so it seems they want me to print it out for them to save them the hassle.
Need to make a meme about being at day 220 of 90, then receiving a notification from the eforms site,... that necessary maintenance is being performed and the site will be down.
