I've had Brad build me 3 rifles. 2 were AR's so they were basically assembled. I took my Remington 700 that he built for me to a local smith to have a muzzle break changed. This smith has been a machinist for 30+ years and does some work on the MK13 rifles for Crane etc. Anyway, the smith informed me that my barrel was torqued into my action at 20 ft. lbs…. Apparently it's supposed to be closer to 120 ft. lbs. if I remember correctly. So my headspace was way off which would explain why I was having a horrible time finding ammo the gun liked. I would imagine this is very unsafe and i'm lucky I didn't have a 300WM cartridge explode my action. He also told me my action was never blueprinted or trued. Lastly my scope rail was still utilizing the stock Remington 700 screws so he never drilled and taped them to the bigger screws. I paid for all of these services and they weren't performed. I feel like a moron for not catching it but I guess that's what you get when you put your trust in some people these days. I've tried to contact Brad and he's obviously not answering my calls or emails. It appears that all of his numbers have been disconnected or changed. Just thought you guys would like to know.
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Isssues with Superior Tactical Solutions
- Thread starter strike33
- Start date
he moved out of KY. when I get the information I will forward it to anyone who wants/needs it. He has been trying hide over the past 6 months or so. I've been told that STS has filed for chapter 13. There is an ongoing effort to get the KY prosecutor to file criminal fraud charges. I will try and find out how to best proceed with collecting statements from everyone
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Seems like there is a long line of people looking to get their money back. Ed in the below thread headed to Henderson KY to meet with the prosecutor. If you have been taken by STS I suggest you add your name to complaint
Brad Turner @ Superior Tactical Solutions BAD!!!!!
Brad Turner @ Superior Tactical Solutions BAD!!!!!
Hey guys,
Ed made it to Henderson and filed a criminal complaint with the Sheriff's office. we are currently waiting to hear back from the prosecutor.
What would help the cause if you guys that have lost money to Brad Turner and STS would email Ed ([email protected]) or myself ([email protected]) so that we can add your name and situation to the complaint. The more "victims" we can identify to the prosecutor the better and more solid the case will be.
Thanks
Ed made it to Henderson and filed a criminal complaint with the Sheriff's office. we are currently waiting to hear back from the prosecutor.
What would help the cause if you guys that have lost money to Brad Turner and STS would email Ed ([email protected]) or myself ([email protected]) so that we can add your name and situation to the complaint. The more "victims" we can identify to the prosecutor the better and more solid the case will be.
Thanks
Any word if Brad is going to start up another business? It wouldn't surprise me if he changed the name and started right back up again.
Haven't heard anything as far as rifles. He started a new tank building and restoration business. the deposits from all the rifle builds was used to start that company up. I'm told by people close to him that his plan was to take those deposits and start the tank business, then once that was on its feet he would repay the deposits. It seems that there was never a real intent to deliver to deliver products to the 20-30 customers that are involved with this. This confirms my suspicions after talking with Defiance.
Brad's excuse for my rifle never being built was that he was waiting for the action, Defiance told me that all actions were going out in 8 weeks.
There is quite a bit of shadyness as well as all out criminal behavior that's taken place. I wish that when I contact LE over a year ago that they would have been more proactive. It may have saved quite a few people some time, money and patience.
Brad's excuse for my rifle never being built was that he was waiting for the action, Defiance told me that all actions were going out in 8 weeks.
There is quite a bit of shadyness as well as all out criminal behavior that's taken place. I wish that when I contact LE over a year ago that they would have been more proactive. It may have saved quite a few people some time, money and patience.
The fact that this has been ongoing for well over a year is disgusting. I contacted this moron about 2 years back via email and asked him some questions regarding his rifles. One thing that tipped me off was a response to the Cadex chassis. Said that "they prefer them because they look cool" and that "all his rifles shoot 1/4 MOA out to 800 yards." They were never really in contention as a builder for me, but i ran away pretty quickly. I'm so sorry to hear that so many have been duped by this asshat. How in the blue hell he's still not behind bars on felony fraud charges is beyond me.
If he was hit by a truck tomorrow, the world would be a better place.
If he was hit by a truck tomorrow, the world would be a better place.
I won't get into posting "PM's" here or attempt to sway anyone's ideas/opinions or "fact" base conclutions but I will say even though Brad has closed doors on STS it was not linked to this.
strike33, I don't know when you will stop pushing this, but you and I both know that what is being "fed" to this thread is not truth. I don't need or want your dollar amounts/wait times/promises because frankly I still have those PM's saved to my hard drive from you and know that this is a very skewed view on what happened/rifle performance/customer service.
Not to mention, its sad reality when someone puts that "If he was hit by a truck tomorrow, the world would be a better place." Really? I bet that there arent 5 people on this thread that know what really happened but that doesnt stop this witch hunt does it? Again, this isn't my fight but I atleast feel the need to share SOME facts in this thread if strike33 won't.
I do call Brad a friend and I will leave it as that. I have no dog in this fight other then to offer to many of you the knowledge of there being something other happening then what is perceived.
1. Brad has closed doors on STS it was not linked to this/taking people money and running concept.
2. That what is posted on this thread is NOT correct.
3. That it is not my place to throw strike33's PM's to the public but rather provide an opportunity for others to understand that this thread is not reality, despite X amount of "Oh yeah this also happened to me...." tales.
I dont know of other reasons related to his business performance that relate to the closure of STS. He was a gunsmith that like some get behind on builds, orders, make mistakes. I do know that his goal was to invest time elsewhere to afford the ability to expand the abilities of STS, that is all.
BDE541,
You've made it quite clear that you and Mr. Turner are friends, both here and on other forums.
I'm not sure which incorrect facts you are referring to, or what false statements were made in PM's.
The original post was made with actual quoted emails from Brad Turner president of STS and myself. Those are there for you to read if you so chose.
Facts after the OP.
Legal documents were sent demanding the return of the rifle and balance of the deposit.
STS's attorney resent the build completion and confidentiality agreement, It was signed and returned to STS
STS failed to return the equipment and the money.
That attorney dropped the cass
I filed a civil lawsuit in Henderson District court against STS
STS counter sued alleging false statements and that I refused to pay them owed monies for services
A motion for discovery was filed stating among other things that STS had to provide proof that the rifle and equipment was still in their possession.
The attorney for STS filed a motion to be removed as counsel from the case. The motion was granted and STS was given 90 days to acquire new counsel.
STS failed to acquire new counsel
A motion for a summary judgement as well as a motion to name Brad Turner individually on the suit was filed and granted.
A summary judgement was ordered against STS.
Currently waiting on Brad Turner's summons/ response
This is what has been relayed to me and is considered hearsay:
At least one customers rifle was pawned
At least 6 customers (that I'm tracking) have sent deposits and have heard nothing back
At least 2 criminal complaints have been started
The KY state police were told that STS filed chapter 13, although as of 2 weeks ago no paperwork has been filed.
The business address listed on STS's website and correspondence is no longer occupied by Brad Turner or STS
The deposits from customers for rifles was used to help start another business
As far as pushing this goes its gone as far as STS has allowed. I agreed to all of his terms and still was not returned my equipment or money. I have never made a personal attack or implied that I wished any form of bodily harm to him. As a matter of fact if you read back, you will see that I purposely avoided such comments.
Specific information was sent to individuals who requested, individuals who have deposits sitting somewhere and have not heard back. That information was not posted here in this thread.
I understand that you are loyal to your friend, and that is noble. I am however, confident in the information that I have posted. If i am mistaken, or otherwise been dishonest, by all means share. I stated in the beginning of this thread, (and if I remember correctly it was a reply to you) that this is an open discussion. I was hoping that my case was an isolated incident, but the others here would say differently. The one thing that has rung true from even those that experienced poor customer service was that the rifles could shoot. I mention earlier that if I ever got the rifle back that anyone would be more than welcome to give it an objective review.
I don't know what other facts you are expecting me to give. I guess its ok to talk about TRs horrible service but no one elses
You've made it quite clear that you and Mr. Turner are friends, both here and on other forums.
I'm not sure which incorrect facts you are referring to, or what false statements were made in PM's.
The original post was made with actual quoted emails from Brad Turner president of STS and myself. Those are there for you to read if you so chose.
Facts after the OP.
Legal documents were sent demanding the return of the rifle and balance of the deposit.
STS's attorney resent the build completion and confidentiality agreement, It was signed and returned to STS
STS failed to return the equipment and the money.
That attorney dropped the cass
I filed a civil lawsuit in Henderson District court against STS
STS counter sued alleging false statements and that I refused to pay them owed monies for services
A motion for discovery was filed stating among other things that STS had to provide proof that the rifle and equipment was still in their possession.
The attorney for STS filed a motion to be removed as counsel from the case. The motion was granted and STS was given 90 days to acquire new counsel.
STS failed to acquire new counsel
A motion for a summary judgement as well as a motion to name Brad Turner individually on the suit was filed and granted.
A summary judgement was ordered against STS.
Currently waiting on Brad Turner's summons/ response
This is what has been relayed to me and is considered hearsay:
At least one customers rifle was pawned
At least 6 customers (that I'm tracking) have sent deposits and have heard nothing back
At least 2 criminal complaints have been started
The KY state police were told that STS filed chapter 13, although as of 2 weeks ago no paperwork has been filed.
The business address listed on STS's website and correspondence is no longer occupied by Brad Turner or STS
The deposits from customers for rifles was used to help start another business
As far as pushing this goes its gone as far as STS has allowed. I agreed to all of his terms and still was not returned my equipment or money. I have never made a personal attack or implied that I wished any form of bodily harm to him. As a matter of fact if you read back, you will see that I purposely avoided such comments.
Specific information was sent to individuals who requested, individuals who have deposits sitting somewhere and have not heard back. That information was not posted here in this thread.
I understand that you are loyal to your friend, and that is noble. I am however, confident in the information that I have posted. If i am mistaken, or otherwise been dishonest, by all means share. I stated in the beginning of this thread, (and if I remember correctly it was a reply to you) that this is an open discussion. I was hoping that my case was an isolated incident, but the others here would say differently. The one thing that has rung true from even those that experienced poor customer service was that the rifles could shoot. I mention earlier that if I ever got the rifle back that anyone would be more than welcome to give it an objective review.
I don't know what other facts you are expecting me to give. I guess its ok to talk about TRs horrible service but no one elses
I am not speaking for any other "Instance" but rather addressing the OP's thread....
strike33, I am aware of what was done after the OP but I am addressing the fact that this "robbery" isn't so... I think the issue is non-payment for changes AFTER the original rifle was shipped to you, then returned to STS for work.
"If i am mistaken, or otherwise been dishonest, by all means share."
Reason for sending it back>>> "Brad had originally told me when he put it together that there were issues with teh rock. But I was in a hurry to get the rifle in hand so he put it on at my request. I take the blame for that one. Brad is putting a brand new Broughton on it..." From our first email.
More...
"I hear you. I changed or at least modified the specs on thi a few times along the way. But I have to hand it to Brad, We have spent hours on the phone going over the build and chatting about shooting in general. if the customer service wasn't so good I would have given up a long time ago..."
and finally....
"I really have no complaints with STS, Brad has to be one of the nicest guys in the business..."
All just small tid bits from our emails in the past. I think that issues came up when Brad was doing work above and beyond the orginal price/agreement, you didnt want to pay and he held onto your gear. I could be wrong and if I see proof to the otherwise then fine, I will apologize. I have nothing against you strike33, I just cant stand members here beating on those when THEY have zero physical proof (personally).
Your anger must be blinding, as my Username is infact BGE not BDE. But I knew before I posted this that it would be met with nothing more then level heads or the willingness to consider other options that what we are told... Not everything is as it seems, in this regard.
strike33, I am aware of what was done after the OP but I am addressing the fact that this "robbery" isn't so... I think the issue is non-payment for changes AFTER the original rifle was shipped to you, then returned to STS for work.
"If i am mistaken, or otherwise been dishonest, by all means share."
Reason for sending it back>>> "Brad had originally told me when he put it together that there were issues with teh rock. But I was in a hurry to get the rifle in hand so he put it on at my request. I take the blame for that one. Brad is putting a brand new Broughton on it..." From our first email.
More...
"I hear you. I changed or at least modified the specs on thi a few times along the way. But I have to hand it to Brad, We have spent hours on the phone going over the build and chatting about shooting in general. if the customer service wasn't so good I would have given up a long time ago..."
and finally....
"I really have no complaints with STS, Brad has to be one of the nicest guys in the business..."
All just small tid bits from our emails in the past. I think that issues came up when Brad was doing work above and beyond the orginal price/agreement, you didnt want to pay and he held onto your gear. I could be wrong and if I see proof to the otherwise then fine, I will apologize. I have nothing against you strike33, I just cant stand members here beating on those when THEY have zero physical proof (personally).
Your anger must be blinding, as my Username is infact BGE not BDE. But I knew before I posted this that it would be met with nothing more then level heads or the willingness to consider other options that what we are told... Not everything is as it seems, in this regard.
BGE541..... are you familiar with what constitutes fraud in the state of Kentucky? What Turner has done is fraudulent. You cannot take someones money for a service, not deliver on that service, and vanish. That IS felony theft of property by deception. You can spin it however you want but that is the law in this state.
Strike33 is out of state but the services are performed in this state and Turner has an obligation to fill or return all funds and property owned by Strike33 or face criminal charges. That is fact no matter what email was sent or what was said, it's the principal of business law as far as I understand it to be.
Strike33 is out of state but the services are performed in this state and Turner has an obligation to fill or return all funds and property owned by Strike33 or face criminal charges. That is fact no matter what email was sent or what was said, it's the principal of business law as far as I understand it to be.
The man has/had property that does not belong to him and refused to return said property to rightful owners. Period. That is theft first and foremost. Secondly, promised work, never completed. Money taken, without refund or explanation. That is fraud. Fact. The BBB has a laundry list of people who have reported this guy.
Why in God's name would so many people bring up negative experiences over the past year? What are people bored? Lying?
I highly, highly doubt that all these folks are wrong and STS is in the "right".
Why in God's name would so many people bring up negative experiences over the past year? What are people bored? Lying?
I highly, highly doubt that all these folks are wrong and STS is in the "right".
That is not what I am saying. I am proposing the possibility of a build happening, being sent back for whatever reason, (as represented in the email a barrel upgrade which was recommended from the get-go) then asking for more time/parts to be dropped into it then refusing to pay for that time/parts when it comes. Its completely probable if you consider anything other then what you are told in this thread.
Again, I am not trying to disband ALL allegations here only answer this in a logical way with facts I have...
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What he has done is wrong. Doesn't matter if he sent it back 20 times (as you allege) he still does not have his property. How can you be sure Turner is telling YOU all of the correct story? Or just bits and pieces.
I apologize for the typo with your screen name
Afternoon all... | Northwest Firearms
You are correct about the barrel. After the build was complete and before it shipped Brad told be that the bore of the Rock Creek was crooked. He stated that it may or may not affect the accuracy of the rifle but he wouldn't know until it was fired. I told him to send it. The rifle didn't shoot. Brad requested that I send the rifle back to him and that he would screw a new barrel on and use the Rock Creek barrel for a .308 project. I agreed and over nighted the rifle back.
In the release agreement it was stated that the Rock Creek barrel was the cause of the accuracy issue and it was replaced with a Broughton. In the counter suit it was claimed that the issues with the accuracy were because I removed the bedding pins and that the rifle shot to spec when they were replaced. I never removed the action from the chassis, this was clearly said to Brad when I first told him that the rifle didn't shoot. So which is it? And if what he claims in the counter suit is what he believes then why was a new barrel installed and I charged for it.
As far as more time and parts being requested, I'm not sure what you are referring to. There are two builds happening here. Brad had all the money and the parts.
At this point a total of $3,945 has been paid to STS. He never requested more time, He said that the remington would be back to me in 2 weeks. I never saw it again. We agreed that if the Defiance build wasn't completed by Jan 1st then the order would be canceled. We agreed on the refund amount.
As far as the other comments, I did say those things and at the time I believed them. While the builds were happening Brad was very friendly and spent quite a bit of time speaking with me. I also said great things about him in the thread I started when the rifle was delivered. I also gave him the chance to fix the problem before I reviewed the experience. I also recommended STS to other members here. This was all done either before or shortly after the Remington was shipped. It was after the Remington was returned and the Defiance wasn't delivered that my opinion of STS and Mr. Turner changed. I believe I layed all that out.
You make it seem as though I am being purposely deceitful. Everything that you mentioned is already posted for other to see, if not in this thread than in several other, including the one I started "STS rifle delivered"
I did change the specs of the build.. due to the inability of STS to deliver. It was originally ordered with a Defiance Rebel action. Because Brad said he didn't know when the action would be delivered (after the original completion date) he convinced me to change it too his M24E3 configuration, I agreed. After that wasn't delivered due to "problems with the prototype" It was changed back to the Defiance. All that is listed in the OP. Not only did he not deliver the Defiance build but he convinced me to change to a configuration that hadn't even been tested yet. It was all means to delay.
The issue of Robbery is the fact that he has/had my:
Strike 33 chassis
USO 5-25 TPAL
Atlas bipod
MRAD muzzle brake
PWS Muzzle brake
Storm case
Eberlestock drag bag
DCLW tripod
Remington barreled action.
These are all parts that I purchased separately and shipped to STS, he did not provide any of it.
On top of that is the cash deposit
The issue of the deposit was at the time negotiable. I even agreed to a refund amount that was less than what we agreed upon. It was told to by STS's attorney that the rifle and equipment was not returned because Brad did not like this thread.
All I ever asked for was the return of the equipment I sent and the agreed upon refund, nothing more. Even in the law suit I didn't claim damages.
It's not right, not for me or anyone else that STS took people's money, stopped communicating then shut their doors without a refund or delivery in sight.
Afternoon all... | Northwest Firearms
You are correct about the barrel. After the build was complete and before it shipped Brad told be that the bore of the Rock Creek was crooked. He stated that it may or may not affect the accuracy of the rifle but he wouldn't know until it was fired. I told him to send it. The rifle didn't shoot. Brad requested that I send the rifle back to him and that he would screw a new barrel on and use the Rock Creek barrel for a .308 project. I agreed and over nighted the rifle back.
In the release agreement it was stated that the Rock Creek barrel was the cause of the accuracy issue and it was replaced with a Broughton. In the counter suit it was claimed that the issues with the accuracy were because I removed the bedding pins and that the rifle shot to spec when they were replaced. I never removed the action from the chassis, this was clearly said to Brad when I first told him that the rifle didn't shoot. So which is it? And if what he claims in the counter suit is what he believes then why was a new barrel installed and I charged for it.
As far as more time and parts being requested, I'm not sure what you are referring to. There are two builds happening here. Brad had all the money and the parts.
At this point a total of $3,945 has been paid to STS. He never requested more time, He said that the remington would be back to me in 2 weeks. I never saw it again. We agreed that if the Defiance build wasn't completed by Jan 1st then the order would be canceled. We agreed on the refund amount.
As far as the other comments, I did say those things and at the time I believed them. While the builds were happening Brad was very friendly and spent quite a bit of time speaking with me. I also said great things about him in the thread I started when the rifle was delivered. I also gave him the chance to fix the problem before I reviewed the experience. I also recommended STS to other members here. This was all done either before or shortly after the Remington was shipped. It was after the Remington was returned and the Defiance wasn't delivered that my opinion of STS and Mr. Turner changed. I believe I layed all that out.
You make it seem as though I am being purposely deceitful. Everything that you mentioned is already posted for other to see, if not in this thread than in several other, including the one I started "STS rifle delivered"
I did change the specs of the build.. due to the inability of STS to deliver. It was originally ordered with a Defiance Rebel action. Because Brad said he didn't know when the action would be delivered (after the original completion date) he convinced me to change it too his M24E3 configuration, I agreed. After that wasn't delivered due to "problems with the prototype" It was changed back to the Defiance. All that is listed in the OP. Not only did he not deliver the Defiance build but he convinced me to change to a configuration that hadn't even been tested yet. It was all means to delay.
The issue of Robbery is the fact that he has/had my:
Strike 33 chassis
USO 5-25 TPAL
Atlas bipod
MRAD muzzle brake
PWS Muzzle brake
Storm case
Eberlestock drag bag
DCLW tripod
Remington barreled action.
These are all parts that I purchased separately and shipped to STS, he did not provide any of it.
On top of that is the cash deposit
The issue of the deposit was at the time negotiable. I even agreed to a refund amount that was less than what we agreed upon. It was told to by STS's attorney that the rifle and equipment was not returned because Brad did not like this thread.
All I ever asked for was the return of the equipment I sent and the agreed upon refund, nothing more. Even in the law suit I didn't claim damages.
It's not right, not for me or anyone else that STS took people's money, stopped communicating then shut their doors without a refund or delivery in sight.
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What proof would you like me to provide to you?
You are correct in that I didn't want to pay for a rifle that was not started/ completed or delivered.
In the final invoice STS wanted me to pay $8,888.45 for what a mounted to the hydro dip of the chassis, 1 Spuhr mount, the threading chambering and installation of one barrel, a bolt knob and the refinish of the barreled action.
I believe that is unreasonable, especially considering the pricing for both rifles was already set.
You are correct in that I didn't want to pay for a rifle that was not started/ completed or delivered.
In the final invoice STS wanted me to pay $8,888.45 for what a mounted to the hydro dip of the chassis, 1 Spuhr mount, the threading chambering and installation of one barrel, a bolt knob and the refinish of the barreled action.
I believe that is unreasonable, especially considering the pricing for both rifles was already set.
This is what I am addressing... I understand you had came up with a build, set him your goods and waited. You received the first build (as agreed upon) the one you did the report on. Then, you sent it back requesting changes to be made. I cannot speak as too what changed were made but that is where this disconnect is. STS put in work above and beyond what was originally asked for/paid for. That means additional cost would be occurred. You didn't want to pay this cost so for someone to protect their business they hold onto it until payment. This isn't specific just to STS or the gun industry... (This also is what I was referring to when I mentioned that STS still had the rifle, KYS) Again, I may be completely off track but that is how it appears to me. I am not saying that your weren't willing to pay, I'm not saying that STS was perfect in this execution of things...
I am simply proposing this concept/scenario because if the thread has no issue harboring so much hate and discontent for someone (with very few fact, in other "claimed" cases) then as an open forum I feel as if it is reasonable and fair to truly throw out all options.
Absolutely and I have no issues addressing your questions or concerns regarding the matter.
Brad requested that I send the rifle back. As displayed in the email correspondence I told him that I would get some more ammo and try the rifle again. His immediate response to that email was "call me".
During that phone conversation was when Brad requested that I send the rifle back. He stated that he would install the Broughton free of charge. (i really would have had no issue purchasing a new barrel if that was indeed the cause as I sent him the original blank). He also stated that he would like to use the rifle as a display at an upcoming gun show that he was attending as a vendor.
It appears that you lost in the different builds. I never received the first build that was ordered, that was the Defiance build. The only reason I sent him the Remington was because he kept missing the deadlines for the Defiance. The Remington was done as a stop gap to get me up and shooting again. The Defiance was canceled as previously agreed upon. There is no evidence that the Defiance build was ever started. As I understand it, at the time the build was canceled STS didn't even have the action.
With the initial deposit, there was an excess of $3,210 (this is the amount the Brad and I agreed would be refunded when/if the Defiance was canceled) that would have covered any additional costs for the barrel. There was also work performed on the rifle that was not requested/ordered approved such as the fluting of the bolt. In addition if you read the original post there is an email from Brad stating that he would proved 100 rounds of ammo to make up for the failure to deliver on time. This was sent by him, I never requested this. On the final invoice this ammo was listed and charged.
I'm not the only one that has been charged for items/ services that were not ordered, or having matters of the builds completely changed. As stated many times before I understand issues with deliver dates, and there is some give and take with that. However, this entire situation went well above simply not delivering on time.
The truth is I have no idea where this rifle is or where any of the other components are. As I stated, I agreed to everything in the release agreement, including the additional costs. It was signed and delivered. There has been no sign of the equipment since it was returned. I haven't seen it and it was never produced for discovery during the civil case. And yes, if it does come to light that he sold the rifle that was registered to me then I will continue to pursue criminal charges.
If I'm still not being clear on my side then I will certainly try and answer any other concerns. With there being two separate build with one being canceled and the other being sent back it tends to get murky and confusing.
Brad requested that I send the rifle back. As displayed in the email correspondence I told him that I would get some more ammo and try the rifle again. His immediate response to that email was "call me".
During that phone conversation was when Brad requested that I send the rifle back. He stated that he would install the Broughton free of charge. (i really would have had no issue purchasing a new barrel if that was indeed the cause as I sent him the original blank). He also stated that he would like to use the rifle as a display at an upcoming gun show that he was attending as a vendor.
It appears that you lost in the different builds. I never received the first build that was ordered, that was the Defiance build. The only reason I sent him the Remington was because he kept missing the deadlines for the Defiance. The Remington was done as a stop gap to get me up and shooting again. The Defiance was canceled as previously agreed upon. There is no evidence that the Defiance build was ever started. As I understand it, at the time the build was canceled STS didn't even have the action.
With the initial deposit, there was an excess of $3,210 (this is the amount the Brad and I agreed would be refunded when/if the Defiance was canceled) that would have covered any additional costs for the barrel. There was also work performed on the rifle that was not requested/ordered approved such as the fluting of the bolt. In addition if you read the original post there is an email from Brad stating that he would proved 100 rounds of ammo to make up for the failure to deliver on time. This was sent by him, I never requested this. On the final invoice this ammo was listed and charged.
I'm not the only one that has been charged for items/ services that were not ordered, or having matters of the builds completely changed. As stated many times before I understand issues with deliver dates, and there is some give and take with that. However, this entire situation went well above simply not delivering on time.
The truth is I have no idea where this rifle is or where any of the other components are. As I stated, I agreed to everything in the release agreement, including the additional costs. It was signed and delivered. There has been no sign of the equipment since it was returned. I haven't seen it and it was never produced for discovery during the civil case. And yes, if it does come to light that he sold the rifle that was registered to me then I will continue to pursue criminal charges.
If I'm still not being clear on my side then I will certainly try and answer any other concerns. With there being two separate build with one being canceled and the other being sent back it tends to get murky and confusing.
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That last bit has me wondering- wasn't the Remington rifle delivered with the Rock barrel (possibly crooked bore and all) AND the accuracy guarantee? If so was it being sent back for requested changes or warranty work?
Yes the rifle was delivered with the Rock barrel. Brad wasn't sure if it would have an effect on the accuracy or not. It was never tested fired prior to being shipped.
The rifle was sent back for warranty work (at the request of Mr. Turner) as it did not meet the accuracy guarantee. I was told that the Broughton would be chambered and installed free of charge and the Rock Creek would be used for a 308 build. I imagine that it would be a short barreled rifle but i don't know what the actual plan was.
The rifle was sent back for warranty work (at the request of Mr. Turner) as it did not meet the accuracy guarantee. I was told that the Broughton would be chambered and installed free of charge and the Rock Creek would be used for a 308 build. I imagine that it would be a short barreled rifle but i don't know what the actual plan was.
Multiple builds/rifles/orders/delays can confuse things. I do apologize (personally) for this happening. My communication lately with Brad is few and far between and clearly the point of my posting here was not to clear STS as a company but to add possibilities for understanding in terms of facts/numbers etc that don't and I believe now will never make sense.
I see you have a nice rifle now and hope you enjoy it. I do not think it was fair (clearly) that you are left with nothing. Next time I talk to Brad I will bring this up and see if I can help you in anyway with answers or what not. I cannot speak as to where items are/their status etc. I simply do not know....
I see you have a nice rifle now and hope you enjoy it. I do not think it was fair (clearly) that you are left with nothing. Next time I talk to Brad I will bring this up and see if I can help you in anyway with answers or what not. I cannot speak as to where items are/their status etc. I simply do not know....
Like originally was said, I hoped that this would be an open discussion.
I do honestly thank you for bringing something to the table from the other side. If anything maybe our back and forth help clarify the situation. Much of what has happened does not make much sense but it is what it is and hopefully it will be remedied soon, not just for me but for the other customers and Brad.
It's a shame that things took the turns that they have, as I'm told from many that when the rifles are finally delivered they are indeed quite accurate.
Well I know my wallet is missing over 10K and no rifles , has my Premier Reticle Scope, atlas bipod, AAC QD Titan Mount, and Badger Ord scope mount!!! I'm sure he's a great friend to someone, to me he is someone who owes me money and truthful explanation of how this happened!
Well gents here is some news.
It had been confirmed by the Sheriff's office that the USO scope was pawned by Brad Turner in February 2012. They are trying to track down some of the other equipment but the scope was verified by serial number
It had been confirmed by the Sheriff's office that the USO scope was pawned by Brad Turner in February 2012. They are trying to track down some of the other equipment but the scope was verified by serial number
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Haven't been to this thread in a while but, after reading this:
Than this:
...What other conclusion am I supposed to draw other than him being a thieving piece of shit?
Are we NOW making the claim that he "owned" the scope that was part of the build?
Regardless of anyone receiving a rifle...Pawning a scope that's clearly not his property, at all...Yeah...That pretty much labels him for life as a thieving piece of shit. Just sayin.
Than this:
...What other conclusion am I supposed to draw other than him being a thieving piece of shit?
Are we NOW making the claim that he "owned" the scope that was part of the build?
Regardless of anyone receiving a rifle...Pawning a scope that's clearly not his property, at all...Yeah...That pretty much labels him for life as a thieving piece of shit. Just sayin.
If you were to take what I was saying in context and read the following...
"I see you have a nice rifle now and hope you enjoy it. I do not think it was fair (clearly) that you are left with nothing. Next time I talk to Brad I will bring this up and see if I can help you in anyway with answers or what not. I cannot speak as to where items are/their status etc. I simply do not know.... "
strike33, that is dissapointing, sorry to hear about your Optic.
Yes but, you're discussing two separate, completely different circumstances.
Sending a rifle "back" under the situation you explain -- Okay...That answers possession -- Not why it was held, pawned, parted out etc...Just that it was in possession.
I'm also not taking issue with you...It's just very difficult, from the position that a spectator sits to justify the optic, at all.
The rifle? As Strike pointed out, there's a fair argument in there for Brad having the rifle -- For as long as he did, no...But, possession? Certainly.
The pawning of the scope, something that clearly, was never his property, period, goes above and beyond possession of the rifle and very negatively impacts what little character he had, if any...
Even if his business was drowning in debt...That action goes beyond the realm of defensible, IMO.
Again, he's your friend but, that single action, from a spectator's standpoint, at the very least, turns this from "maybe" a thief...Into a full blown thief. Not that there wasn't enough to already justify that...Now there definitely is.
Would anyone be able to possibly post the name of the new business so that we all may avoid this human being, completely and utterly...Or would that be a violation?
<~ I wouldn't do business with him before but, I absolutely don't deal with thieves, period.
I happen to go to a range in PA so, would be happy to get the word out to avoid him at //all// costs.
You are correct. Their are many parts to this... I have never known of location, end point or sales of any items. I am also aware that his actions are and were wrong. Even though he is my friend I cannot and will not deny what has happened.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely pissed but in a way its good to have the facts, knowing what actually happened eases my mind slightly.
The time line is what really bothers me now. The scope was pawned in February of 2012, This whole ordeal began in January. By February the first legal demands were sent so at that time he can't simply say I was a non paying customer. (well, he already had nearly $4,000) The barreled action shouldn't be hard to track, as long as it was sold legally. But being that it was sold out of state I'm sure the ATF will be involved in tracking it down.
The other equipment won't be as easy to find as i don't have serial numbers for them, but at least the Sheriff's Office has some solid leads.
For those guys that are missing actual rifles/ equipment shoot me a PM and I'll forward you the Deputy's contact info so they can help track your stuff.
Best of Luck
The time line is what really bothers me now. The scope was pawned in February of 2012, This whole ordeal began in January. By February the first legal demands were sent so at that time he can't simply say I was a non paying customer. (well, he already had nearly $4,000) The barreled action shouldn't be hard to track, as long as it was sold legally. But being that it was sold out of state I'm sure the ATF will be involved in tracking it down.
The other equipment won't be as easy to find as i don't have serial numbers for them, but at least the Sheriff's Office has some solid leads.
For those guys that are missing actual rifles/ equipment shoot me a PM and I'll forward you the Deputy's contact info so they can help track your stuff.
Best of Luck
Sorry for the delayed reply. I got back from AFG a few weeks ago and have been catching up on life.
I'm still very much in pursuit of (at least) my money back from Brad. Still no updates, just giving you all signs of life here.
I'm still very much in pursuit of (at least) my money back from Brad. Still no updates, just giving you all signs of life here.
