Size anneal or anneal size ?

[wapiti16b]

Like the title says , size anneal or anneal size and why !
I have my method , don't know if it's right or wrong but would like your in-put and reasons for your method !
Thanks .

 

[Precision Underground]

Anneal size. You want the brass in a happy state when you size it.

 

[SupressYourself]

It's my understanding that annealing is done to put flexibility back into the brass for the purpose of it retaining the proper shape and consistent neck tension when you size it, so it only makes sense (to me) to anneal first.

 

[wapiti16b]

This is what I do also but I wonder if sizing work hardens the brass enough to make a difference ? , I'm satisfied with my results unless someone has done both and has imperical evidence that the opposite makes a difference ?

 

[mdmp5]

This is what I do also but I wonder if sizing work hardens the brass enough to make a difference ? , I'm satisfied with my results unless someone has done both and has imperical evidence that the opposite makes a difference ?

That’s a good point you bring up. For the longevity of the brass, it probably doesn’t make a difference whether you size or anneal first, as long as you anneal at all. For the purpose of a more consistent neck tension and shoulder setback, it may make a difference. It is logical to anneal first to me, but I would also like to see a study comparing the 2 methods

 

[supercorndogs]

I don't think pushing the shoulder back .001 is creating enough pressure to work harden brass in any measurable amount. I annealed after sizing once and I had trouble with hard chambering.

 

[Tazman]

I size the brass...anneal,,,then size again. If I size then anneal, I can feel a difference in the bullet seating tension on the press but I may be doing it wrong either way.

 

[JimLee]

I don't think pushing the shoulder back .001 is creating enough pressure to work harden brass in any measurable amount. I annealed after sizing once and I had trouble with hard chambering.

Springback, one of the reasons to anneal in the first place...

 

[308pirate]

I don't think pushing the shoulder back .001 is creating enough pressure to work harden brass in any measurable amount.

Pressure doesn't work harden metal. Displacement work hardens metal. Pushing the shoulder back once probably won't make a measurable increase in brass hardness. Six or seven cycles of firing and resizing without annealing certainly will.

 

[padom]

Always anneal then size. Youre not gaining the benefits of annealing if your doing it after sizing. And those of you sizing then annealing then sizing again are just performing unnecessary steps contributing to reducing the life of your brass. Do as you wish

 

[mdmp5]

Pressure doesn't work harden metal. Displacement work hardens metal. Pushing the shoulder back once probably won't make a measurable increase in brass hardness. Six or seven cycles of firing and resizing without annealing certainly will.

I'm sure that's what he meant

 

[MarinePMI]

Anneal, then size. Aside from the previous points, I also size after annealing to break any scale that may form inside the case necks and cause funky metal bonding over time between the bullet and case mouth.

 

[supercorndogs]

I'm sure that's what he meant

I was actually under the impression that how hard you hit, effected how much work hardening was caused. I.E. That pushing it back with a die would cause little, where pushing it back forward with 50k psi would do more. Kind of like the difference between bending it and hammering it.

 

[MarinePMI]

I believe it is a combination of the amount of force, as well as the number of times. Just like pounding out a knife blade with a hammer, or when working with silver wire and bending the wire back and forth, the hardening happens when the structure of the metal is stress, as well as how many times. Thinking of bending a coat hanger wire back and forth until it snaps. That's an easy way to understand work hardening.

 

[Supersubes]

Anneal first. Seems totally counter to the process to size first. Think of it this way. You size in a more hardened state, then put 700 degrees into it during which time is expands a few thousandths due to heat, then it cools in a now softer state. That can’t be good for dimensions we’re chasing. No way that neck is shrinking down uniformly.

 

[wapiti16b]

I appreciate everyones input and Thank You all , this is what I thought also but had never experimented with size anneal and just wondered if it would make a beneficial difference !
Thanks !

 

[McCrazy]

+1 for anneal then size.

Annealing then sizing will surely be more consistent since you are only sizing down a couple thousandths and not causing much work hardening.

Sizing and then annealing would surely end with varying neck tensions and diameters and cause ES/SD issues.

This would actually be a fairly simple situation to quantify via an experiment if anyone felt like doing it.

 

[jeffmedlin]

+1 for anneal then size as well!