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Small deer/big bear caliber?
- Thread starter Antares
- Start date
50 bmg and go for head shots on the deer and center mass on bear.
I took my deer on Kodiak with a 375 H&H. Made for a good slow impact.
30-06 would work but the bullet matters most....
I hunted Kodiak Sitka's with an '06. Had one deer taken by a bear, just let him have it and kept hunting.
Seen a ton of bears with some very close encounters and never had an issue with an aggressive bear. They're not nearly as aggressive as our Wyoming Grizzlies in my opinion. Next time I go I'll take my 10mm and a smaller caliber rifle like a 6.5cm.
Seen a ton of bears with some very close encounters and never had an issue with an aggressive bear. They're not nearly as aggressive as our Wyoming Grizzlies in my opinion. Next time I go I'll take my 10mm and a smaller caliber rifle like a 6.5cm.
Choose a good bullet and practice shooting at shit your pants distances, 1.2.3 as fast and accurate as possible. Milk jugs with water work great for this.
Thanks for all the replies. I’m really interested in something like a .280AI, But I don’t reload. I have a hard time getting ammo even in the best of times. I can’t mail order because all the mail comes in on a plane and there are only two shops in town that stock ammo. So I end up gravitating towards really generic calibers just so I’ll have a better selection of factory loads to choose from.
If that is the case, then 30-06 is your answer. It ain't new, it's not fancy, but it's been dropping deer since the dawn of time, and is generally found just about anywhere ammo is sold.
6.5 CM for Sitka deer. If you have to stop a charging bear it better be with a shot in the cranium and a 6.5 will work for that. Missing with a 30.06 won't be much more help than missing with a 6.5.
maybe ask shop if they can stock 280ai? I know my local shop will accommodate well if you plan on buying
Is reloading a possibility? If it is, then you could realistically just flip a coin between 280ai and .30-06. If not, then like loveha says, the answer is .30-06
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With a press, and a set of dies you could do some surgery on factory 30-06. The way the expansion ratios work out, any safe 180 grain 30-06 load will be a safe 225 grain 338-06 load.
Take a factory cartridge, dump the powder and save it. Run the case through the 338-06 sizer with the decapping pin removed to expand the neck. Put the powder back in and seat a 225 grain Nosler Partition. Not something I would normally bring up, but it can be done.
Take a factory cartridge, dump the powder and save it. Run the case through the 338-06 sizer with the decapping pin removed to expand the neck. Put the powder back in and seat a 225 grain Nosler Partition. Not something I would normally bring up, but it can be done.
Better just carry the 458 Lott. This is no time to puss out!
I’m kind of joking, but the 458 Lott with light loaded 300/350’s is not too bad recoil-wise and quit grid on deer, i’d bet.
In reality, I’m likely carrying my 300 Sherman deer rifle and my 45 Colt in a shoulder rig to have a gun on me all the time. In my limited brown bear experience, your most likely to run into a bear gutting fish, near trash or near cooking food. What these all have in common is I’m not likely to have my hunting rifle in hand when cooking and fishing.
I’m kind of joking, but the 458 Lott with light loaded 300/350’s is not too bad recoil-wise and quit grid on deer, i’d bet.
In reality, I’m likely carrying my 300 Sherman deer rifle and my 45 Colt in a shoulder rig to have a gun on me all the time. In my limited brown bear experience, your most likely to run into a bear gutting fish, near trash or near cooking food. What these all have in common is I’m not likely to have my hunting rifle in hand when cooking and fishing.
I love my 6.5s, but I'd take the .30-06 for that particular duty, stoked with 180gr-200gr NPTs or 168g TTSX. '06s are usually very slick and sure feeders, which could be an asset in an emergency.
I’m guessing most recommending 30/06, 280 AI etc have never been in an alder thicket with a large Brown Bear popping it’s jaws and knocking over alders in a fit of anger. Even a .375 seems tiny.
A 416 Rigby can be loaded with 300 grain Varmint bullets for deer and 400 grain plus for bear.
A 416 Rigby can be loaded with 300 grain Varmint bullets for deer and 400 grain plus for bear.
Meh. I still vote semi auto. 20 black tips would give me a better shot than a couple slow shoulder bangers
I was listening to a podcast, about guy hunting elk on Kodiak with 6.5 cm. He lives there.
He was charged by a grizzly. He said (paraphrasing from memory) that he looked down at his tiny 6.5 CM and realized it was worthless, so he threw it on the ground and took off running. As a result he was badly mauled and his buddies hearing the commotion, came and dispatched the bear, saving him.
He then bitched about the coast guard helicopter crew posting a pic of him being lifted by basket into their rescue chopper, on their FB page.
Sounds like the numb nuts that say a .223 or .22 can’t kill a deer
This guy is a respected hunter feeding this bs on a respected hunting podcast with the interviewer whole heartedly agreeing with him.
Ep. 42: A Bear Attack on Afognak Island | MeatEater Podcasts
Afognak Island is a small land mass about 20 miles long and 40 miles wide off the coast of Alaska in the Kodiak archipelago. There aren't many reasons to visit this place and even fewer motivations for someone to take up residence on the island. In fact, there are only 39 permanent human...
Bear attack starts around 1:03 with thoughts on “no way 6.5 cm will take down bear” around 1:07 .
Now if he would have said he had not time to get a shot off then I would have bought that. Quite frankly he might not have and that is the real answer.
It does however beg the question why an experienced hunter, would hunt elk in Grizzly country with a weapon he feels is useless against bears and no sidearm as a backup???
I went to the coast guard page where the video is that he whined about, and posted that is they ever rescue me they can post all the damn pics they want with my blessing.
Bear attack survivor! | Nice work to the U.S. Coast Guard Air Station Kodiak #helicopter crew who medevaced a #hiker today after he was mauled by a #bear on Afognak Island, just... | By U.S. Coast Guard Alaska | Facebook
Nice work to the U.S. Coast Guard Air Station Kodiak #helicopter crew who medevaced a #hiker today after he was mauled by a #bear on Afognak Island, just...
fb.watch
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With all due respect those who have not been in the thick with brown bear, elephant, lion or Buffalo, up close, eye to eye should not really be commenting on proper weapons to do so with.
That Rigby double rifle that feels like an 88mm gun off a Tiger tank in the pre dawn darkness feels like a feather when you are literally within arms reach of dangerous game.
That Rigby double rifle that feels like an 88mm gun off a Tiger tank in the pre dawn darkness feels like a feather when you are literally within arms reach of dangerous game.
A .338 WM, in a relatively lightweight (9 pound or less ready to roll) package is pretty hard to beat as an “all around” cartridge. At least that’s what my wife says! 
Her “only” hunting cartridge!
Just a thought, when in reduced visibility terrain, the rifle is in hand....not on the shoulder! If your not handgun hunting, the handgun stays in camp as a sleeping partner. When I was much younger, stronger, and in good shape....I learned that carrying both long gun and handgun are impractical on physical hunts! memtb
Her “only” hunting cartridge!Just a thought, when in reduced visibility terrain, the rifle is in hand....not on the shoulder! If your not handgun hunting, the handgun stays in camp as a sleeping partner. When I was much younger, stronger, and in good shape....I learned that carrying both long gun and handgun are impractical on physical hunts! memtb
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Beaten to death? Whatever that means.
What most here seem to be missing is experience. Can you please state yours?
Many are expressing opinions about which they know no more than what are the best headers to run at Talladega.
Relevant questions are not what can be killed, but what can be stopped.
How highly do you regard your life and well being?
How much do you want to rely on others to bail you out?
How much do you want to inconvenience others.
The mention of .338 Win Mag above is a very sensible compromise. I do not care to inconvenience or depend on others. I would use a .375 H&H or .416 Rigby.
I have killed multiple Grizzles above timber line with a .270 Winchester. I would not hesitate to kill a brown bear the same way. What is different is that much of Kodiak is covered in thick alders and shots can be measured in feet, not yards.
YMMV.
1. 6.5 creed >>> bare hands
2. Hunting partners seems wise
3. Sidearm seems prudent
I haven’t eaten a steak, or been on a hunt, worth dying for yet.
2. Hunting partners seems wise
3. Sidearm seems prudent
I haven’t eaten a steak, or been on a hunt, worth dying for yet.
Since no one mentioned it yet.
Why not 35 Wheelen. I've taken a lot of Sika (yes Sika not Sitka) & Whitetail with my trusty crusty Rem 7400 auto in 35 Wheelen.
Never had a malfunction & never had a deer land more then 10 feet from where it was hit.
I've always been able to find factory ammo 200-250 grain.
Might seem overkill for small deer, but if you haven't hunted MD's Eastern shore thickets..........that's why! All my shots have been under 100, but odds of hitting brush is high.
For under 400 seems about right & a few 250 grain Core-Lokt in the mag would give a bear hell.
Sika (Japanese Elk 100lbs is big) 200grain Core-lokt has enough expansion on the way through to kill quickly without destroying meat. Same for White tail. All pass through with pretty good exit hole 1/2"ish.
Sika
Why not 35 Wheelen. I've taken a lot of Sika (yes Sika not Sitka) & Whitetail with my trusty crusty Rem 7400 auto in 35 Wheelen.
Never had a malfunction & never had a deer land more then 10 feet from where it was hit.
I've always been able to find factory ammo 200-250 grain.
Might seem overkill for small deer, but if you haven't hunted MD's Eastern shore thickets..........that's why! All my shots have been under 100, but odds of hitting brush is high.
For under 400 seems about right & a few 250 grain Core-Lokt in the mag would give a bear hell.
Sika (Japanese Elk 100lbs is big) 200grain Core-lokt has enough expansion on the way through to kill quickly without destroying meat. Same for White tail. All pass through with pretty good exit hole 1/2"ish.
Sika
For the record I personally would not hunt elk in Grizzly country with a 6.5 CM. If I were planning that hunt today I would likely borrow my buddies .300 WM and 10 mm glock. That is what he hunts Alaska with. Hunting deer in black bear county I would be comfortable with my 280 AI . I would and do carry a handgun backup.
I ran these after I heard the above story. It has been a while so don’t shoot me if you find holes. I put the 6.5 CM up against two of the caliber of pistols I have heard a lot of folks carry for bear. The bear in the above story was finished off with a 10 mm Glock IIRC, after being shot with a rifle.
IIRC these are factory loads with advertised muzzle velocities.
(Not sure why this graph came out so crappy)
I ran these after I heard the above story. It has been a while so don’t shoot me if you find holes. I put the 6.5 CM up against two of the caliber of pistols I have heard a lot of folks carry for bear. The bear in the above story was finished off with a 10 mm Glock IIRC, after being shot with a rifle.
IIRC these are factory loads with advertised muzzle velocities.
(Not sure why this graph came out so crappy)
if i am hunting anywhere griz are, the smallest i’d carry would be a 300wsm. kicks like a 270 and hits like a 300 magnum. but i’d me more inclined to carry 35 whelen or a 375.
i’ve a ton of black bear experience but absolutely none with other bruins. it doesnt take much for blackies. folks say the bigger bears are an entirely different animal, and i believe them. and if i am in “other bear” country, carrying “more gun” doesnt seem like too much bother.
all that being said, always keep in mind that the most dangerous bear in existence is the internet bear. dangerous, cunning, and widespread. if i have any LEGITIMATE concern about bears, i will leave the hanguns at home and carry an appropriate rifle.
i’ve a ton of black bear experience but absolutely none with other bruins. it doesnt take much for blackies. folks say the bigger bears are an entirely different animal, and i believe them. and if i am in “other bear” country, carrying “more gun” doesnt seem like too much bother.
all that being said, always keep in mind that the most dangerous bear in existence is the internet bear. dangerous, cunning, and widespread. if i have any LEGITIMATE concern about bears, i will leave the hanguns at home and carry an appropriate rifle.
and as far as the dude with a 6.5 that threw it down and ran....he deserved to be mauled. ANY shot is better than running. i remember someone checking their chicken coupe in the evening and finding a grizzly in it, which charged. bear was shot with a 410 with birdshot and killed on the spot.
does that mean i’d take a 410 after griz? hell-fuck-no. but what if that person had thrown down the 410 and ran? any shot is better than running.
does that mean i’d take a 410 after griz? hell-fuck-no. but what if that person had thrown down the 410 and ran? any shot is better than running.
Where handguns excel in a battle with an animal, is when you can smell it’s breath.
The guy is hunting deer not bears, yes you're going to run across bears but 99% of the time they leave you alone. That 1% where they don't is because you surprised them and when that happens they are very close and with a long gone you'll get one shot and you wont be aiming. That is why those of us who hunt grizz country on the regular carry a sidearm. Everyone I know that has shot a Grizzly in self defense has done it with a sidearm and it's been less than 20'. I have one friend that shot a charging sow with his 7mm rem mag, he pulled the trigger when she was about 10' away and she slid right into him dead.
This has been my average encounter with Wyoming Grizzly, they smell you they run, if I would have yelled at him or surprised him he may have charged me. He was 9-10yds scent trailing my tracks in the snow and he was a very large boar.
This has been my average encounter with Wyoming Grizzly, they smell you they run, if I would have yelled at him or surprised him he may have charged me. He was 9-10yds scent trailing my tracks in the snow and he was a very large boar.
They hunt Grizzly with bow and arrow. Now that takes balls! I imagine they are allowed a sidearm for backup, but still.
Now that takes balls! I imagine they are allowed a sidearm for backup, but still.I've hunted Kodiak Island and have had lots of close encounter's there too. In my opinion Wyoming Grizzlies are alot more aggressive than fat well fed Kodiak Brown Bears. We have on average 3 maulings a year in my county alone.
The logic of carrying a 375 for deer because you're afraid of bears is stupid. If your hunting big bears that's a complete different scenario. When I hunt rabbits in grizz country I should shoot a 375??
Bear spray and sidearms are what's needed for personal protection in bear country.
Here's a "tiny" Wyoming Grizz on my trail cam where I bowhunt elk every year.
Call me crazy but I would rather be over gunned than under with any predator that would make me a light healthy snack.
You’re not going to ruin enough meat to make any meaningful difference with a bigger bullet and I’d much rather ruin a deers meat than a bear ruining my own.
That’s also why I’m keeping my ass in Texas.
You’re not going to ruin enough meat to make any meaningful difference with a bigger bullet and I’d much rather ruin a deers meat than a bear ruining my own.
That’s also why I’m keeping my ass in Texas.
Yes, in big bear country I carry 375. Deer hunting, salmon fishing etc.
It’s not hard. Really does not even warrant discussion. I suppose it depends on how much you value your life or how much you want to rely on others.
Odd you would carry a deer rifle, a handgun and bear spray instead of simply making the right rifle choice.
It’s not hard. Really does not even warrant discussion. I suppose it depends on how much you value your life or how much you want to rely on others.
Odd you would carry a deer rifle, a handgun and bear spray instead of simply making the right rifle choice.
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