Small deer/big bear caliber?

[striped1]

I have bow hunted grizzly country and carry a 10mm glock. 10mm is better than nothing when I can’t have a rifle or shotgun.

if I was rifle hunting on Kodiak? 300 win mag, 300 prc, or as mentioned one of the 338’s would be an excellent compromise

 

[memtb]

There is a big difference between “hunting” and defense! Generally, when hunting....you chose the encounter! memtb

 

[Boltyboi]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m really interested in something like a .280AI, But I don’t reload. I have a hard time getting ammo even in the best of times. I can’t mail order because all the mail comes in on a plane and there are only two shops in town that stock ammo. So I end up gravitating towards really generic calibers just so I’ll have a better selection of factory loads to choose from.

Sounds like you should buy something 30-06 or bigger that your local shops stock then... .300wm, .7mm mag, whatever.

 

[myronman3]

Where handguns excel in a battle with an animal, is when you can smell it’s breath.

if i know i’m going to battle and it’s my ass on the line, i’ll take a rifle....each time, everytime. against man, or beast. the ONLY time the handgun has the advantage is when you dont know you are going to battle. in other words, you probably dont need anything, but JUST IN CASE, you want something on you that beats your fingernails.

i carry a handgun 24/7/365. but i’d NEVER forgo the chance to have a rifle in my hands when it’s “for all the marbles”. and only a fool would.

 

[RTH1800]

They hunt Grizzly with bow and arrow. Now that takes balls! I imagine they are allowed a sidearm for backup, but still.

View attachment 7518958

Those hunting big bears with a bow have someone backing them up with a .375 or .416 in every case I know of.

 

[RTH1800]

I've hunted Kodiak Island and have had lots of close encounter's there too. In my opinion Wyoming Grizzlies are alot more aggressive than fat well fed Kodiak Brown Bears. We have on average 3 maulings a year in my county alone.

The logic of carrying a 375 for deer because you're afraid of bears is stupid. If your hunting big bears that's a complete different scenario. When I hunt rabbits in grizz country I should shoot a 375??
Bear spray and sidearms are what's needed for personal protection in bear country.

Here's a "tiny" Wyoming Grizz on my trail cam where I bowhunt elk every year.
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You do not state your experience in actually killing large bears. Please clarify. Merely seeing them does not count. In all of your Brown Bear hunting expeditions on Kodiak how many did you kill?

You also miss the point of being prepared. A .375 is carried so as not to be afraid of bears, not because of it.

The fact that a lot of guys in your area carry bows, 10mm’s and pepper spray and get mauled refutes your position and supports mine. If they left the toys at home and carried .375’s the score would be reversed. Zero hunters mauled.

Things may have changed but when I was on Kodiak no one left the tento crap without their rifle. Fishing boats carried .375’s, guides carried .375 or .416 rifles. Duck hunters carried a .375 to the blind for protection.

Pilots carried mostly 45/70 lever guns it seemed.

I never saw a 6.5 CM. Not one.

 

[Holliday]

if i know i’m going to battle and it’s my ass on the line, i’ll take a rifle....each time, everytime. against man, or beast. the ONLY time the handgun has the advantage is when you dont know you are going to battle. in other words, you probably dont need anything, but JUST IN CASE, you want something on you that beats your fingernails.

i carry a handgun 24/7/365. but i’d NEVER forgo the chance to have a rifle in my hands when it’s “for all the marbles”. and only a fool would.

Handguns are for fighting your way to your rifle or shotgun.

That said, we have big cats here in Wyoming. Only a fool would suggest that one could effectively deploy a rifle when one of those has without warning, hit you from behind like a ton of bricks and the only reason you are half conscious and still in the fight, is because the thing is still realizing that backpack in it’s mouth .......is not your neck.

If you are on the ground in an existential fight with an animal, a handgun might get you enough distance and time to deploy your rifle and shotgun, effectively....

 

[Wyfox]

@rth1800
Didn't hunt bears on Kodiak, hunted blacktails just as the OP is. My guide carried a 22-250 fwiw. We seen bears everyday, no need to go chase them because we were hunting deer. I had one deer taken by a bear and let him have it. Never felt threatened by them and they were everywhere.

The guys that are mauled here have been taken by surprise and knocked down to the ground with rifle in hand or bowhunters. We had a young bowhunter get mauled last september but was able to kill the bear with his pistol while it was on him.
We had a guy get killed last year that had a 10mm but didnt keep one in the chamber and never got the oppurtunity to use it.
Here's a pic of a large grizz killed by a neighbor with a 1911 .45 in defense, emptied the gun into it. Rifle isnt much use when you're knocked to the ground.

Living in the middle of Grizz infested country may make me think differently than those who don't. But Ive never felt the need to carry a 375 everywhere I go. I have grizzlies walk through my backyard of the house im building now, just part of life out here. I respect them but dont fear them.

I think we can both agree to disagree, if I were hunting Brown bear then for sure I would be carrying a 375 or 416 because you really need to. No argument there.

 

[Edds]

Yes, in big bear country I carry 375. Deer hunting, salmon fishing etc.

It’s not hard. Really does not even warrant discussion. I suppose it depends on how much you value your life or how much you want to rely on others.

Odd you would carry a deer rifle, a handgun and bear spray instead of simply making the right rifle choice.

What bullets do you use in your 375?

 

[RTH1800]

I have utilized three expanding bullets on large game in .375.

I started with the old turned jacket Nosler Partition bullet. The ones John made on screw machines. Had a rough finish. Most of those were shipped in the old yellow and white boxes not the more recent green and black boxes. I think the new type bullet came out in the mid ‘70’s.

About the time I ran out I met Jack Carter
and started using the early version of the Trophy Bonded Bullet that Jack made. I tested the prototypes in several calibers including .375.

Most recently I have used Barnes TS solid copper bullets. All were 300 grains and worked fine.

I suspect the solid copper ones are the most reliable but I have no complaint about any of them.

 

[myronman3]

Handguns are for fighting your way to your rifle or shotgun.

That said, we have big cats here in Wyoming. Only a fool would suggest that one could effectively deploy a rifle when one of those has without warning, hit you from behind like a ton of bricks and the only reason you are half conscious and still in the fight, is because the thing is still realizing that backpack in it’s mouth .......is not your neck.

If you are on the ground in an existential fight with an animal, a handgun might get you enough distance and time to deploy your rifle and shotgun, effectively....

ever been on the ground with a predator? if you think they arent good at controlling their prey after they have a hold of it, you are stoned. if your plan is to engage after you’ve been taken down, your plan blows and you need a new one. they make a world champion mma fighter look like chumps. not saying it can’t be done, or hasnt, but it aint a great plan.

i love handguns AND rifles. i also know that your best weapon against predators is a little bit of common sense. i have been nose to nose with a pretty big bear, armed with a 28 gauge. and at two feet, i’d have been really happy to have a much bigger gun. both me and it lived to see more days. having been in that situation, i know firsthand how it feels. common sense carried me through, and that big bear was no where near as dangerous as the dreaded internet bear.

handgun? rifle? i guess whatever floats your boat. chances are very high you’ll never need it anyway. lots of good points made by guys that live around them. figure out what works for you, and do your best.

 

[Spicerack]

I'm in WI and never had any dealings with the big bears, but what about a 12 gauge with slugs or sabots? I suspect it may do the job for the little deer and the big bears with both in close quarters. Ammo plentiful, recoil manageable, guns available and handy in brush. Just throwing it out there for conversation since i dont really know and it hasnt been brought up in the thread yet.

 

[Antares]

I'm in WI and never had any dealings with the big bears, but what about a 12 gauge with slugs or sabots? I suspect it may do the job for the little deer and the big bears with both in close quarters. Ammo plentiful, recoil manageable, guns available and handy in brush. Just throwing it out there for conversation since i dont really know and it hasnt been brought up in the thread yet.

This is my go to for bear protection. I spent a lot of years toting around an 18” Rem 870 while doing fieldwork. Loaded with slugs and a pocket full of less-than-leathals for doing a little “adverse conditioning” (cracker shells, rubber buckshot, bean bags, etc.).

That said, 12 ga isn’t making my short list for deer loads.

 

[hereinaz]

Depends when and where you go on Kodiak. We saw none in 9 days, only tracks by camp once and sign all over the salmon creek from the past weeks.

I carried a magazine of 180 accubond in the rifle. Switched to Berger for deer, although the 180 had close enough impact out to 200 not to worry.

We killed caribou and sitka from 100 to 575.

Locals laughed when we asked about renting a bear fence for the time and location we went.

 

[AKMarty]

Better just carry the 458 Lott. This is no time to puss out!


I’m kind of joking, but the 458 Lott with light loaded 300/350’s is not too bad recoil-wise and quit grid on deer, i’d bet.

In reality, I’m likely carrying my 300 Sherman deer rifle and my 45 Colt in a shoulder rig to have a gun on me all the time. In my limited brown bear experience, your most likely to run into a bear gutting fish, near trash or near cooking food. What these all have in common is I’m not likely to have my hunting rifle in hand when cooking and fishing.

here in AK a rifle shot equals dinner bell for brownies if you are in an area that sees many hunters. It wouldn’t be the first time you show up beak to beak at the kill site. I definitely keep a pistol on when deer hunting up here.

 

[brianf]

Pistol and bear spray.

If you can’t draw on a human (21 foot exercise) your sure as hell not drawing and firing accurately at a bear that can move 2x as fast.

You don’t need to hit a vital with bear spray.

You need to create time and distance

And a lot of the time your in brush with the bear popping up And playing peak a boo.

Remember your not in a square range at the ready...in Alaska your cold wet and prob huffing and puffing from slogging trough some brush.

With all that 300wm as primary, pistol and spray as defense