So here we go, the Deep State is on the move.

[XP1K]

How many 4473's do you think have been filled out by lawful gun owners since 1968?

Anyone?

Trick question

There is no way of knowing because there is no number, no data base.

The forms are filled out and stay with the dealer at the licensed premisis, the ATF never sees them unless they physically go to that dealers place of business and asks to see them. They could ask for them to be mailed in I guess

Generally, when on an annual inspection, they ask to see the last 10 or the last years worth, check them over to see that they are filled out correctly and hand them back. Also ask to see my A&D book to see that SN's and descriptions match the 4473's. Other than secure storage, gun locks, etc. that's it.

When a dealer goes out of business, he is required to send them all in to the ATF, so there are those, in a box somewhere.

The ATF can request an FFL's 4473's at any time to aid a criminal investigation.

I go back to 1981 and am just small potatoes, imagine a LGS and how many they have. Multiply that by licensed FFL's

Not saying it can't or won't be done in the future but it would be a monumental task to enter each paper 4473 in a database.

My LGS recently made the move to electronic 4473's. Where do you think that information goes when you hit sumbit ?

 

[fpgt72]

My LGS recently made the move to electronic 4473's. Where do you think that information goes when you hit sumbit ?

I typed that exact thing a few minutes ago. I asked is that on on prem server or do you use a "service" for that.

They use a service. But oh, they have it that they will not release the info to anyone but the people that signed the agreement. Oh you mean just like Liberty safe? They went blank.

If you had an on prem server then perhaps I would be ok with it, but I would bet the backup procedures that the fed would put forth would be insane, hourly backups, off site, bla bla bla.

I bought the rifle I was looking at knowing full well that the feds have now own a Daisy 2201. I am sure with that being bought I am a high threat now, a plastic 22 made of pot metal.

Not a fan of the electronic versions....hell I screw them up every time anyway.

 

[sandhiller]

You're full of it. Delaware state police kept records on people for years. It was found out about in 2008. there are databases, you just don't know how many or who has them.

Well the Delaware state police don't know nothin' about the guns I own
I guess there could be some databases out there but they are in no way complete

Last gun I bought from a dealer, a vintage Daisy 22lr, they had a digital form. I was not real cool with that. Filled it out on an Ipad.

Where is that data stored, on a local server or the cloud.....they have a "service"....ok so you are not in control of the forms, they are on the cloud for all to see.

I still bought the little rifle, really I know I have my own FBI guy, he likely looks at me then says....this busted down old man starts limping halfway to the mailbox, I don't think we need to really worry about him.

Yup, I can see where a digital form could be uploaded and put in a database easily

And if in the cloud could it be hacked and others find out what you have? I would be uncomfortable with that too

Not so much with a paper form

 

[sandhiller]

My LGS recently made the move to electronic 4473's. Where do you think that information goes when you hit sumbit ?

OK OK I get it electronic forms are out there and are being kept on a server somewhere

I still do paper forms (and other gun stores and one SOT that I have bought from still do paper forms) and never even been offered the opportunity to do electronic and wouldn't go there by choice

Let me amend my original comment to "there could be a database(s) storing this information but would not be complete".

My business records, on paper, are kept by me and not on a database anywhere. Speaking of my personal experience and not the state in which you live

 

[Charmingmander]

My LGS recently made the move to electronic 4473's. Where do you think that information goes when you hit sumbit ?

I wouldn't buy from an LGS with electronic 4473s.

 

[Maxduty]

OK OK I get it electronic forms are out there and are being kept on a server somewhere

I still do paper forms (and other gun stores and one SOT that I have bought from still do paper forms) and never even been offered the opportunity to do electronic and wouldn't go there by choice

Let me amend my original comment to "there could be a database(s) storing this information but would not be complete".

My business records, on paper, are kept by me and not on a database anywhere. Speaking of my personal experience and not the state in which you live

LOL, every firearm or receiver you've ever bought from an FFL is recorded on that paper form and available for "inspection" per the regulations. Ideally, you would purchase from private sales to keep it off the books, but there's likely an electronic fingerprint of phone calls, emails, website stuff or texts that could be subpoenaed and figured out where it went. The only people getting away with no logs of where a firearm went stole them and sold them on the street or left them in a desert.

 

[TexPatriot]

Look son, the enemy wants to know which legal citizens are armed.

 

[DRandi]

They most certainly are keeping records.

Help GOA to DESTROY the ATF’s Unconstitutional Gun Registry | GOA

Back in 2021, Gun Owners of America uncovered internal ATF documents revealing that the Biden-Harris Administration is secretly establishing an illegal registry of gun and gun owner records. In response to what we uncovered, Rep. Michael Cloud has reintroduced the No REGISTRY Rights Act (H.R...

www.gunowners.org

 

[rdinak]

Ok so start by going to gunshows and shops. Take photos of lots of toys. Post them online as look what I found in a pawn shop today.

The photoshop guns get especially high marks.

Flood the system.

 

[tucaz]

once i got into the NFA registry i kinda stopped worrying about them "tracking" me. they have a lot of people to track....

Sounds to me like the "Government" is going to have to hire some more people.
That will make the "Hiring Numbers" look good for the next 6 months.

the illegals will make fine federal agents.