Rifle Scopes So I bought a “Just As Good”, Burris XTR3
- Thread starter redneckbmxer24
- Start date
Richard is cool. The man has a family to feed and is actually a shooter unlike some vendors who’s only on here to turn a profit.
HDMR and DMR3 here. XTRIII got sold.
Just an fyi, the glass of the DMR3 is brighter than the HDMR, but if I don't shoot them side by side, I am still happy with the HDMR.
Put it on a tikka or some factory rifle… not your custom action.
You guys are soft with your mushy turret and CA bullshit. It’s a $800 scope, it tracks good, it’s got decent glass and it’s not a fuckin Arken… what more do you want?
You guys are soft with your mushy turret and CA bullshit. It’s a $800 scope, it tracks good, it’s got decent glass and it’s not a fuckin Arken… what more do you want?
Couldn't agree more. I often wonder about grown men complaining about shit like how the knurling hurts their fingers... Put down your fucking purse...Do you have a pair, or have you worked behind a corporate desk your whole life and have soft bitch-hands.
Paint me stupid, but I don't think CA has a daggum thing to do with the precision of the whole system.
Expert Voice has them for Don't list EV pricing in open forum
You’re missing the point but partially getting it at the same time. Yes it is an $800 scope, I’ve even say $1000 scope and still have good value as long as the reliability is there. These constantly get compared to optics costing twice that (or more) as being just as good or better by a company shill and some fanboys and it’s just not accurate.
Regarding the CA, I’ve said multiple times that it’s not something that I really see unless it’s very bad. Some people obviously sees it more and it bothers them.
The sharp turrets go beyond being uncomfortable on the hands, they are just unnecessarily sharp to the point they’re like cutting teeth on a saw blade. There’s no reason for it. When they’re that sharp it turns safe dings that would normally be a scuff or scratch into chunks missing. I’m a function over form kind of guy but I have some nice wood stocked stuff that I want to stay that way and when they’re that sharp it’s only a matter of time until it’s not.
Ok I’ve got one of those too but the glass in mine is pretty bad and we’ll below average for what they come with.
Mines pretty decent and they are built like tanks
i even got an Arken 5-25 and that a poor poors scope and it’s actually decent
Thanks for the quick assessment southern bikerI have yet to grab a Philippine made XTR IIIi but would like to at some point when the time is right. Your comments on the knurling remind me of the US made XTR III which someone coined as being "dragon scales" a while back and it's stuck with me, because that knurling feels like it will rip your skin off. I had both a US made 3.3-18 and 5.5-30 and the 5.5-30 had "easier" controls but still a bit tight. That is my biggest gripe with these scopes; however, at the current price point I am not going to complain, especially now that they have illumination. For there current price point there is not much that can compete when it comes to the optical performance - glass, edge to edge clarity, FOV and mag range all make for what I think is one of the best price
I haven't gotten to handle the XTR3 yet but how does it compare to the G2 Cronus now that you can get them for $1000 when on sale?
Cronus has better glass, turrets/controls and illumination. XTR3 better eyebox, FOV and DOF. Had multiple of each over the last few years and both the Athlon and Burris were reliable.
Personal preference, but I prefer the APRS reticles of Athlon over the SCR
If you are a Veteran or Military, or First Responder/LEO it is a one stop shop where you can access discounts indirectly from storefronts for companies that offer a discount.
You don’t have to be an influencer, but members leave reviews through the site. The same discounts are still available directly through vendors that offer than, but it streamlines verification of Mil/LEO status, which is convenient.
I had to make a trip up north and decided to pull the optic and bring it since I knew I’d have a good opportunity to check it out at distance. I spent quite a while scanning all over from 10yards to over 1500 mostly. This optic might have the best DOF of anything I’ve used, it’s exceptional as far is DOF and parallax forgiveness goes.
The glass is definitely very good for the price and colors and brightness is great but it definitely falls short on resolution. For being under $1K I would say the resolution is still very good though.
The glass is definitely very good for the price and colors and brightness is great but it definitely falls short on resolution. For being under $1K I would say the resolution is still very good though.
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I am glad you got your turd nugget, i thought you might be impressed with it. I am waiting on your future comparison with the mk4 as i need more scopes.
I think he absolutely did... His remarks mirror my thoughts almost exactly.
My parallax is dogshit. I would have picked up a 3.3-18 to throw on a ranch AR if it wasn't for the parallax
My Philippine turrets are like a sharp bottle cap IMO
It's definitely there. look at the white top of a T post or similar against the woods, it will bleed over & make the background slightly purple
Glad you did this @redneckbmxer24
Regarding the magnification & elevation/windage, they got a little better for me w/ use. Take it out in low light or very heavy overcast, that's when the glass is most disappointing. Things get... dark
I’m using one on my custom rig as a place holder until someone comes out with a decent 3-12ish FFP reticle that’s worth anything on high and low mag (fingers crossed for a bushy LRHS revival with some updates).
In the meantime it’s good for what it is, probably keep it as a backup when it’s time to be replaced.
In the meantime it’s good for what it is, probably keep it as a backup when it’s time to be replaced.
Yeah it’s not great in low light, I’m assuming that it will have some issues in heavy mirage too. I probably wouldn’t put one on a hunting rifle or serious competition rig for the glass quality, but for normal range shooting use I think it’s more than acceptable. I’ve certainly had worse glass that I dealt with. It doesn’t seem to have glare issues at least which a lot of budget optics suffer from.
I find myself agreeing with this. Heavy mirage is very noticeable through my III. However my ability to directly compare it to something else the last time I was shooting was nonexistent as it was the only rifle optic I had out that day. As far as how bad it hindered me, I still shot ~2/3 MOA @ 600 (slow, deliberate) which is about all my shaky old ass is good for off of a Harris and $20 rear bag.
After getting my Pro back from repairs, I spent about a half hour looking through it and the III at various times. I was actually very surprised at how much closer the two were in the middle of the day regarding clarity and contrast. On cattle at ~300 yards I could see the same hair patterns at 30x. Advantage Pro, but not by a whole lot. As light faded, the Pro stepped out a little more.
However I do personally see through the III better than my old Bushnell DMR II...and guys ran those in competitions with decent success for many years. That isn't to crap on the Bushy, or laud the XTR III...it is just my way of stating that I believe that 98% of the guys on this forum wouldn't lose a match because they were running an XTR.
And expertvoice asks you not to divulge the discount.
Dick move.
EV is able to be accessed by a shit load of people including anyone that goes and gets a part time job at a retail store and there’s plenty of retailers selling Burris stuff for less than EV right now. Who gives a shit?
I believe it was @koshkin who mentioned when this scope was first released that they used the erector assembly from the Steiner M7 line but restricted the erector to 5.46x (from the M7 7x) for added benefits in the design. The forgiving DOF and parallax may be one of those benefits. I am not certain though so don't quote me on that (even though you can quote me in the forum
).
Well that’s disappointing, I thought the Filipino made XTR IIIi’s were supposed to have the dragon scales shaved off a bit as well as the mag/parallax resistance loosened up a bit.
They do, the Philippine models are way better than the US. The US models are bad and if you’ve owned both I don’t think you’d call the Philippine models bad. The US models are probably worth either asking Burris for replacement turrets or sanding down.
I have a Phillipines XTR3 and a US model. Cant say Ive ever noticed the knurling being crazy.
Maybe subconciously Im imagining the look on my fathers face if I told him I couldnt use a scope because it made my hands hurt hah.
Maybe subconciously Im imagining the look on my fathers face if I told him I couldnt use a scope because it made my hands hurt hah.
Mine came with an exposed windage turret that has slightly more aggressive knurling and is visually a little different so I’m assuming it’s the same style as the US model. It’s only slightly more aggressive though. The knurling is super aggressive though, way more than it needs to be for no reason. The worst part is the illumination cap that’s like a saw blade. Pretty sure you could use it in a survival situation to cut down a tree and make lumber.
Compared to the stuff you buy, Tangent Theta is a value line optic...
Knurling is such an easy thing for a manufacturer to get right, yet Burris got so wrong. Not a primary complaint for me though & wouldn’t prevent me from buying another
@Glassaholic I think Burris did knock the edges off on the Filipino parallax, but I don't think they did on elevation/windage. Pretty rough machining/finish quality on the parallax, though. Slight abrasion on the "saw blade" is my addition
@Glassaholic I think Burris did knock the edges off on the Filipino parallax, but I don't think they did on elevation/windage. Pretty rough machining/finish quality on the parallax, though. Slight abrasion on the "saw blade" is my addition
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I brought up the "dragon scales" when they were showing the prototype here. I mentioned they looked too aggressive and could use a little tone down. Everyone else was like. Ooo look how cool they look. They'd be good for this or that. 
why anyone thought they were a good idea is beyond me.
My CO burris xtr3s don't have stiff parallax adjustment.
why anyone thought they were a good idea is beyond me.My CO burris xtr3s don't have stiff parallax adjustment.
I just heard back from Burris after asking if I could get the newer Philippine knobs for my US made scope:
“I apologize but the Philippine turrets witness marks don't line up on the U.S. made scopes and the exposed windage don't fit at all.”
I’ll probably use hockey tape on the knobs if I feel like it.
“I apologize but the Philippine turrets witness marks don't line up on the U.S. made scopes and the exposed windage don't fit at all.”
I’ll probably use hockey tape on the knobs if I feel like it.
Sand them teeth down for that special two tone look
Reminds me of a story.
30 years ago I had the front strap checkered on my brand new 1911 after market frame. The guy did a great job. I had rough hands so it felt exactly like I wanted.
Then handed it off to another local GS to get the whole gun blued. I got it back from him and he had sanded down the checkering to a dull slippery feel, GRRRR, and he bent my new front sight also. What an Idiot!
I've got two more of these on the way from the same dealer as I got the first. I spoke to them and the distributor had just gotten another batch in and the price was the same as the first which confirms that Burris has absolutely reduced cost on these or is at least making some distributors better pricing where they can offer dealers better pricing. Price was exactly the same as last time and the shipping cost was the same per item so no combined shipping. The pair were $1599.48 shipped and they're out of stock again.
Tunneling, less FOV and no illumination. I thought the glass was similar on my 6-7x erector models. Hard pass for me. This is a great example of everyone is entitled to their own opinion and choices. Some people have an extremely hard time with that on here
Tunneling, less FOV and no illumination. I thought the glass was similar on my 6-7x erector models. Hard pass for me. This is a great example of everyone is entitled to their own opinion and choices. Some people have an extremely hard time with that on here
Of course if you compare one optics pros to anothers cons you can make something seem better than it is vs comparing the overall package. Yes if you compare only some aspects of the XTR3 it can stack up against much higher end optics in those regards. By the same logic you could consider only tracking performance and claim that a $300 SWFA is comparable to a TT because they track accurate as fuck, but when you compare the overall packages the SWFA really looks like a piece of shit in comparison. Compare the feel of the controls, glass quality, and overall build quality on the DMR3 to the XTR3 and the XTR3 falls short. At the end of the day they are both good optics in their price point but street price on the DMR3 is about half again more than the XTR3 so they aren't a fair comparison.
I don't understand why people have to get wrapped up in whatever gear they choose needing to be comparable to the best or higher end stuff that they'll mislead themselves to reinforce their beliefs. It's next level peasant logic.
I just want people to quit telling me it's "just as good as..."
It's not. It's good for $1k. It's crap for $2k. That's just what poors tell themselves to feel better.
Just like I have no illusions that a Mark 5 or nx8 stacks up against a zco. They do the same job, but if they were truly just as good they'd be asking the same price.
I think what happens with a lot of $1k-$1.5k scopes is people coming from $3-600 scopes are amazed at how much they got for their money. They are then disappointed that the jump is so little when you double the price again.
The law of diminishing returns starts to hit harder in that $2k+ price range, which is why I think you see a lot of guys justify staying under that hump.
I’m not sure what people are coming from that they think these things stack up against $2K optics, but the certainly don’t have experience with truly high end optics, and I’d doubt much with $2K optics, at least from an unbiased perspective.
The fact that when these things came out they cost $1000 more than you can buy them for now also doesn’t support the “just as good as” philosophy. If they were just as good as $2K optics they wouldn’t have to keep lowering the price to sell the damn things. Nevermind that when they farmed them out to the Phillipines from US manufacturing the build quality actually went up, which that speaks volumes to how bad Burris’ US manufacturing is for Phillipines manufacturing to best it.
At $800 they’re a good value and I’ll even say a very nice optic in the sub $1K price point and one of the better ones that I’ve used. I would even pay up to $1K for one, but above that there’s better ways to spend the money, it’s not a $1K+ optic and it sure as hell isn’t a $2K optic. There are some LOW scopes you can get sub $1K like Tracts that beat it in a lot of aspects but they lack some features that are important to me the biggest being a tree reticle and the SCR2 is indeed a very good design.
By the end of the week I’ll have 3 of them and if they prove to be reliable long term I could see owning a half dozen, but they’ll never replace other optics for low light/poor conditions or hard use.
"The build quality actually went up when they left the U.S." Can you support that statement with something. How do you know the build quality didn't go down and thats why the price has gone down? That is of course ignoring that every scope comes out at a higher price than it ends up. The new shiney costs extra. Lets also remember it came competing against the DMR2 and Cronus BTR. You can grab a DMR2 for 750 dollars. I would take the Burris over either. I don't see why I wouldn't take it over the DMR3 also. All they did was put better glass in the same old design again. Same small AFOV, same everything else.
There are a lot of posts on here and a lot in the main XTR3 thread supporting it. Even the most hardcore fanboys and the team fluffer have stated that the Phillipines versions have better glass, smoother controls, better machining on the turrets (not just aggressiveness of the knurling), and not even any purple turrets. Plus dandruff dan is at the Colorado facility.
I've never seen another scope line fall in price like these have short of being discontinued and blown out. The XTR3's and Pros just dropped $200-$300 in recent months. The new black pros that just released at SHOT are even $300 less than they were initially so it's not because the new model came out either.
If the DMR3's had better reticles I would 100% buy them over the XTR3, they are absolutely worth the $400ish more one would cost me than these have. I just don't like the reticles. The EQL just has too much shit in it and the G4P doesn't have .2 mil hashes. The DMR2 G3reticle doesn't have enough wind brackets on the tree for a 10mph full value with a lot of cartridges, it's not even close to having enough with a 223 running 77gr which is the most common DMR combo. If the G3 reticle didn't suck so bad I'd absolutely buy second hand $700 DMR2's instead over $800 XTR3's.
Bushnell did a lot more on the different generations than just upgrading the glass, but it started with a very good and reliable optic from the beginning. The DMR2 got rid of the stupid pull up turrets locking turrets and added a zero stop and 10 mil turrets. The DMR3 has better turret markings, lower minimum parallax, a throw lever, and a reticle update with enough horizontals to hold wind. The DMR's are damn good optics and even the original DMR/HDMR has better resolution than the XTR3. Saying all Bushnell did was upgrade the glass would be like saying all Burris did from the XTR2's to the 3's to the Pro's was upgrade the glass.
Well Ilya stated he really likes the XTRIII and Pro recently. He has more knowledge of optics than most on this site. Period.
That doesn’t make his opinion the end all but it sure as hell bests a lot of the bullshit several people on hear spew on the regular.
That doesn’t make his opinion the end all but it sure as hell bests a lot of the bullshit several people on hear spew on the regular.
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