Rifle Scopes So I bought a “Just As Good”, Burris XTR3
- Thread starter redneckbmxer24
- Start date
I still haven’t found these higher end scopes that the XTR3 compares to. In fact I just got a $500 Athlon Helos 4-20 and it kicks its ass in every way. It’s got far better glass quality with no CA, and the controls are much better. The turrets have hardly any backlash and the magnification ring and parallax turn smoothly with the right amount of effort. It’s crazy to me that people talk these things up so much when they’re inferior to an optic costing half of what they do.
Any down sides to that Helos? Looks like a really good basic Rimfire PRS scope for the real budget shooter. I’ve got friends getting started and an optic is the first basic step.
Other than it being chinesium the only thing I can really pick apart about it is that it has some pretty good distortion at the the very edges on low mag. If you move your head it looks like the edges of the reticle are waving at you. It’s gone by time you get the 6x though. I wish less of the reticle illuminated too, but it’s very clean. Other than that I would say the overall glass and built quality is very good.
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I think for most of us who got one in hand, we've realized first hand that was simply marketing bullshit. When the price for them was $1800 or so online, the perception was that it 'punched up' for the price point to $2000+ scopes.
In reality it was always a $1000 scope, with a handful of very active shills promoting it aggressively on the hide.
Its glaringly obvious why outside of this forum, it was rarely included in the $2000 scope discussions.
I like my XTR3 as an $800 scope. It’s got great glass and I like the SCR reticle. The illum model is even better with controls that aren’t as obnoxious.
The Pro is a dumpster fire. It’s the best example of how the qualitative aspects of a scope (great glass, reticle, good tracking) can mean almost nothing if the subjective aspects (good feeling controls, good looks) suck. That scope absolutely sucks to use. The mag ring on mine had an o-ring that would bunch up and get weird near the extents and felt dry as a bone. I sent it to Burris and they sent it back unchanged.
These were never worth $1,000+
The Pro is a dumpster fire. It’s the best example of how the qualitative aspects of a scope (great glass, reticle, good tracking) can mean almost nothing if the subjective aspects (good feeling controls, good looks) suck. That scope absolutely sucks to use. The mag ring on mine had an o-ring that would bunch up and get weird near the extents and felt dry as a bone. I sent it to Burris and they sent it back unchanged.
These were never worth $1,000+
Sadly this has become all too common on the forums these days, it's basically impossible to trust almost anything you read even here on optics and other new products etc. now, both good and bad. Tons of products get hyped or beat up on forums by sponsored shooters and social media employees as the latest and greatest. Then 2-3 years later you see the truth starts to seep in and the majority of reviews shift that they were never that good. The Strike Eagle was a great example of this, not that it's a bad $500 optic, but when it first came out it was another one that was ridiculously over hyped.
It used to be that we all knew magazine and paid sites or reviewers that got stuff for free were never going to say bad things about products, but the forums were a fairly good source of independent (not necessarily accurate) reviews. These days though, social media and forums have become such an income generator for companies that it's not surprising. Just look at customer service, if you call or email a company the last few years, often you get poor response. You put that same complaint on their facebook or twitter feed and you'll have people reaching backwards to get in touch with you and make it right.
Even here on the hide, we often see someone who contacted companies with problems, got the run around, but once they post here, and the company gets some wider bad press, magically they make everything right and the customer in question posts nice things about them and people seem happy about it. No one should be happy about that, it just means the company wasn't interested in customer service unless it hurt their wider public opinion. It's like the old saying about people being sorry about something once they are caught. Are they really sorry, or are they just sorry they got caught.
"Performs as good as optics costing 2x more" is becoming as undeservedly used here as "0.25 MOA rifle all day every day" used to be.
I think most are aware, but just in case, the MKM parallax wheel makes any stiff turret butter smooth.
I have a 4-20 and 6-24 Helos G2 and they’re great scopes for sub $500 on sale. Haven’t used them a ton or in a while frankly so I guess that’s why they’re on those rifles. The 4-20 had no problem killing deer last year at dusk, I know that 
It’s personal for a lot of people for many reasons. They want whatever they skimped on to be better than it is or comparable to the best, which brings up another dumb term people are wearing out “punches above its weight class”…. LOL ok. I think a lot of people just get emotionally wrapped up in the things they choose to buy and are offended when anyone says anything negative about it.
It’s interesting to note that I read and watched a few reviews on this Helos there they directly addressed the distortion, which you don’t typically see so I thought what an odd thing to say. Then like magic I get this thing and you can see the reticle bending around when you move your head. People are so fucking full of shit.
I have a 4-20 and 6-24 Helos G2 and they’re great scopes for sub $500 on sale. Haven’t used them a ton or in a while frankly so I guess that’s why they’re on those rifles. The 4-20 had no problem killing deer last year at dusk, I know that
I was playing with mine last night in low light and comparing it to the Burris and the glass on the Helos only becomes more apparently better as it’s starts getting dark. It’s not even close. Looking in the direction of the sunset is even worse, the Burris just flares and you can’t see a fucking thing, the Helos controls the glare pretty well and you can still see very well to last light.
So I’ll be that guy. You “won’t touch anything made in China”. I’m all for buying the least amount I can from them but get real. I’ll say it again, give me 10 minutes in your house or work and I’ll call your bullshit out.
Ok i worded it wrong . I go to the extreme to avoid buying any shit made in china, like 5 or so years ago i went to maybe 10 stores to buy led lighting for my gun room. I understand some items you just can't find but i have no fucking problem finding a frigging scope not made in china, that better for you. Can you understand me now? Hey i get it your a cheap ass that doesn't give a crap i understand.
And i did start off by saying it's my personal preference. Now go and enjoy your china shit.
What did a dmr2 cost when the xtr3 dropped, 1200? Yep I put it a couple hundred more than the dmr2.
If you didn't realize the price was going to drop over the new and shiney release price. Ummmm.
if you didn't realize this modle would be superseded in a few years. I guess you haven't been paying attention to the market over the last decade.
No way I woukd trade either xtr3 I have to get back into a cronus. Maybe the first couple years of US production are better.
The px4 is very comparable to the xtr2.
If you didn't realize the price was going to drop over the new and shiney release price. Ummmm.
if you didn't realize this modle would be superseded in a few years. I guess you haven't been paying attention to the market over the last decade. No way I woukd trade either xtr3 I have to get back into a cronus. Maybe the first couple years of US production are better.
The px4 is very comparable to the xtr2.
So, Señor Butthurt, don’t run your cocksucker about not touching anything from China all high and mighty. This story is old on here. We all get it.
What part of me personally trying to avoid crap from china do you find offensive? I am not trying to shame you or anyone else that buys that crap. Anyway if i did I'm sorry.
It’s the common argument and it’s dumb. There’s a big difference between owning some Chinese shit but not supporting the commies when at all possible and just buying a bunch of cheap china crap.
Going to the "extreme" by definition, would be along the lines of no longer using a cellphone, a tv, a computer, etc. As you cannot find an american-made equivalent for those.
By your own admission, you're not extreme about this at all, you simply pick and choose when its convenient for you.
Where are your vehicles made? There's examples of actual American ones out there. You gotta look to before OBD2, fuel injection, and apple carplay, but I highly doubt you go to the extreme in any definition of the word.
The performative patriotism is cute. And very ironic, especially when its written on a majority-chinese component and assembly device, that is literally capable of sending back ALL of your data, directly to them.
You do know the XTR-3 isn't made in China right? It's built in the Philippines with Japanese ED glass...
For some of the guys on here, anything in Asia=china.
The same asinine statement was made about the vortex razor and athlon cronus in the Burris threads.
"cheap chinese crap"
The XTR3 is made in Phillipines and may have Japanese ED glass (that’s only something I’ve heard fanboys regurgitate and the Burris literature makes zero reference of it being Japanese or ED) but I do know that a Chinese scope with a street price of half of it has significantly better glass and build quality LOL. I even bought 4 samples of them and they were consistent across the board. Shitty glass in low light with tons of CA, stiff controls that feel gritty even after use, turrets with a half click or better of backlash, and cheese grater knurling.
I said previously that I thought they were worth the $800 I paid for them, but I retract that statement. Given other optics on the market I’d say they’re $500 scopes. I’m going to sell the last one I have (already dumped 3 of them) and replace it with a MK4HD.
Anybody on the fence about buying one I would seriously suggest you find somewhere that you can compare them along with other optics before wasting your money.
I said previously that I thought they were worth the $800 I paid for them, but I retract that statement. Given other optics on the market I’d say they’re $500 scopes. I’m going to sell the last one I have (already dumped 3 of them) and replace it with a MK4HD.
Anybody on the fence about buying one I would seriously suggest you find somewhere that you can compare them along with other optics before wasting your money.
For some retards, anything not made 100% in America, from 100% American parts is "made in china" because you know, "CHY-NA" as the orange man says... They also are probably the same retards that think Trump is pro-2A, and that there were real WMD's in Iraq, and it had nothing to do with oil and that Leupold scopes are made of entirely American-made parts, and definitely nothing from China, like o-rings or small screws, or erector or frame parts... Oops, did I just spill the beans?For some of the guys on here, anything in Asia=china.
The same asinine statement was made about the vortex razor and athlon cronus in the Burris threads.
"cheap chinese crap"
Straight from the Q&A on Burris' website...
This is off the XTR-II website and responded to by Burris Support... The XTR-II is even lower quality, and it has Japanese glass. It would be stupid to assume the XTR-III being a higher tier optic to have lesser glass production.
Until recently i wouldn't of considered using a "Chinese" optic ... that changed !!!
www.snipershide.com
Arken EP5 7- 35 .. Standing in for some Alpha Glass
Over time i have had more than my fair share of expensive Alpha/Top Tier Glass fail ... Just recently i had 2 current Top Tier optics on 2 of my Desert Tech,s go down. While still waiting for this to be resolved i decided to go the complete other end of the scale...yep....."Cheap" China...
www.snipershide.com
Wow. My cars are made in Japan.
All i try to do is limit my purchase of crap made in china. I am well aware that you can't cut out everything made in china i know because i try. And before you say it i am already aware that some crap made elsewhere might have components that come from china.
I will take your last xtr3 for $500, let me know how you want to be paid.
I’ve gotten what I paid plus shipping out of the 3 I’ve sold. I’m 1000% certain I’ll be able to do the same when I sell this one.
Yeah, that's what I was running on mine. I feel like it's pretty much mandatory for this optic.
Not as compared to the ones I have. I have not seen any Phillipino scopes though.
The diopter set up and the xtr2 and 3 is a little diffrent in my experience with area that seems right but with a somewhat poor image. My diopter is turned much farther out on my xtr3s vs anything I have used. ERS, DMR iterations, razor, mk5, ext, ext....
The diopter set up and the xtr2 and 3 is a little diffrent in my experience with area that seems right but with a somewhat poor image. My diopter is turned much farther out on my xtr3s vs anything I have used. ERS, DMR iterations, razor, mk5, ext, ext....
I wonder how many of the sourced parts for assembly leave a factory in China?
Apparently some dudes on here purchased $500 optics for twice that price. I would feel bad too if I had that happen to me. I was much more fortunate in that I purchased an $1,100 optic for that price. My older U. S. made certainly isn't perfect as the knurling is sharp and the adjustments stiff...but it has been completely reliable and certainly beats the other $1K optics that I own in "glass".
Mine will have a home on a rifle for many years to come.
Sorry to the guys who got crappy examples.
Mine will have a home on a rifle for many years to come.
Sorry to the guys who got crappy examples.
Athlon was a brand new company back then so "growing pains".What did a dmr2 cost when the xtr3 dropped, 1200? Yep I put it a couple hundred more than the dmr2.
If you didn't realize the price was going to drop over the new and shiney release price. Ummmm.
No way I woukd trade either xtr3 I have to get back into a cronus. Maybe the first couple years of US production are better.
The px4 is very comparable to the xtr2.
Pretty much all the 1st gen Athlon's weren't all that great, yes mainly the turrets, but not bad either compared to similarly priced scopes back in that first year.
I was disappointed in some ways when I got mine so I relayed my thoughts to the higher ups about the honest truth and said this isn't going to work and you'll be out of business within two years if you can't seperate your products from the already existing low quailty scopes on the market.
What ensued was literally between shipments negative aspects were improved upon. He strived to overcome whatever needed to be dealt with and since I was associated with the company I was happy I didn't need to distance myself from Athlon which I was prepared to do.
There was even a "what comes down to" a Gen 1.5 Cronus which was improved over the G1 and that happened fairly quickly. IIRC it happened the 2nd shipment to the US and the next year the Cronus BTR came out. Then every year that went by they were putting out increasing quality for the money.
The G2 Cronus 4.5-29's, even my 3-ish year old ones, are really really nice scopes. I've had, or been behind, a bunch of scopes that cost two to almost three times the price of my G2's and honestly I still like the G2 turrets and controls just as much, if not more(especially the turrets). Now glass wise yeah the G2 falls behind the expensive scopes but even still the glass is plenty acceptable.
Also concerning the Athlon Helos G2 6-24, it works well and I set the course record of 47/48 with it on my 22rf in a UFT comp and got high score more than a few times in these matches with said combo. So I have zero complaints with that scope for how much these cost, and likewise for the Helos G2 2-12x42 DMR.
No scope or company is perfect and we the people hope competition among brands will bring us better products and attentive customer service. So hoping the best for Burris. Some of the guys here on SH that have been associated with Burris are nice people as well and I'd like to have a Burris again some day.
Made in, or the brand's HQ lives there? Two very different statements.
If they are truly made in Japan, enjoy your Subaru. Im always the first in line with encouragement when the lesbian community decides to get into gun ownership.
Oh boy your clenching one. No not a Subaru, but yes it was made in Japan. Hope you start feeling better about yourself.
This thread just keeps getting better.
I heard the XTR III was made in America using Steiner glass, it just says made in the Philippines on it so they can get away with charging less.
I heard the XTR III was made in America using Steiner glass, it just says made in the Philippines on it so they can get away with charging less.
The XTR-III scopes were originally made in Greeley, CO, with Japanese glass, but they swapped production to the Philippines a few years back, and still use the same glass from LOW in Japan. They say they actually got better after switching to Philippines, but I can't confirm or deny that, as I've never looked through an XTR-III that was US built (to my knowledge).
The XTR-II is also built in the same factory in the Philippines with lower-tier Japanese glass. Still very good glass for it's price point, IMO.
My XTR-III has excellent glass. Maybe I got lucky and got a freak of nature, but it's an exceptionally surprising scope for the money.
I feel perfectly fine about myself, Im not the one announcing to a complete group of strangers that I
to try to get cool points, while wearing a pair of chinese made underwear, drinking out of a chinese mug, feeding the dog dry kibble bulk packaged in china, and typing it all on a chi-com device thats reporting everything other than my blood sugar back to their country for cataloguing.
You’re an idiot, it’s easy to avoid Chinese for pretty much all of that and if you give your dog cheap dog food you’re an asshole too.
I’m pretty sure you missed the obvious sarcasm there, so calling anyone else an idiot is a rather odd move.
It’s like wisdom is chasing after you, but you’re too fast for it to ever catch up.
And for what its worth, my dog likely eats better food than you do, since none of his raw meat, bone, and organ mix comes from walmart.
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Country of origin and assembly was a major selling point of Burris, prior to the XTR 3 assembly move out of the US.
Specifically one that many tried to use as a deciding point over other choices in the market.
The Burris reps on this forum specifically called other brands "cheap chinese shit", when compared to it.
If you think the subject is in this thread for "no fucking reason" then thats a problem that originated from your inability to read and understand what you're reading.
