Rifle Scopes So, what about Leupold Mark 5 ?

#51
JR869 said:
"The Mark 5 scope is nothing short of a scientific masterpiece. At an MSRP of $2500, a Lifetime of Guaranteed enjoyment, and the fact that even a novice distance shooter was ringing steel with ease – this is one instance where the juice more than justifies the squeeze."

HAHA this made me laugh.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/22/shot-2018-leupold-brings-heat-mark-5-5-25x56-m5c3/
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That shit ain't funny, most of the general shooting population takes those useless articles to heart and then preaches them like gospel to anyone stupid enough to listen. Anyone that's even slightly serious about shooting can see that most writers are way outside their element as soon as they get past a $400 hunting rifle, I'm not sure why writers get the assignments they do.
 
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#52
TonyTheTiger said:
That shit ain't funny, most of the general shooting population takes those useless articles to heart and then preaches them like gospel to anyone stupid enough to listen. Anyone that's even slightly serious about shooting can see that most writers are way outside their element as soon as they get past a $400 hunting rifle, I'm not sure why writers get the assignments they do.
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Gun Reviews are just poorly disguised gun advertisements. When's the last time a review came out and said something was hot garbage?

Anyone remember the Remington R51 or whatever the little pistol was called?
 
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#54
That is actually good logic (for multi-rotation marked turrets). I presume most shooters read the dial to confirm solution so in practice the offset isn't really an issue. If the second level and third level were blind (no additional numbers marked on cap) it would be major issue and could lead to some inadvertently high shots past 10 mils...but I suppose if you run G1 BC's (or believe some Nosler factory BCs) that issue would solve itself. ?

Good post BangBang!


BangBangBlatBlat said:
It's done so that you don't have 10-20-30 stacked on top of eachother. All the numbers are offset and easier to read.
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#55
koshkin said:
I'll reach out to Leupold and see if I can get my hands on the 3.6-18x44. I like compact scopes and the formfactor of this one is very interesting to me.

I'll let you know when I get it.

ILya
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Super in to see your feedback if you get some time on the shorty. Would love this setup for mid range setups (500-900 yards)! Thanks Ilya!

FC
 
#58
10.5 mil per turn to stagger the markers is brilliant. Looks clean, easy to read, and uncluttered. Anyone that would freak out of 1 revolution not ending on the 10 or hole number sounds like Rain Man getting worked up on missing Judge Wapner. If there were no number markings it would make you scratch your head but with the easy to read turret you gotta be some kind of special to not get it.
 
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#59
Apparently these scopes are already available from some of the Hide vendors, I'm really curious how the 3.6-18x44 fairs against other optics in its price class. Really hoping Leupold did it right with this one...
 
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#61
The LRTSi will still smoke this Leupold, not sure why anyone would waste money on this company who has exactly 2 products even worth owning (deltapoint and CQBSS). Everything else gets smoked by someone better, cheaper, more reliable,ect.

When you can get an illuminated LRSTI for $1100 that has a better reticle, better tracking, illumination and probably better glass at almost half the price, its not even worth entertaining.
 
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#62
Primus said:
The LRTSi will still smoke this Leupold, not sure why anyone would waste money on this company who has exactly 2 products even worth owning (deltapoint and CQBSS). Everything else gets smoked by someone better, cheaper, more reliable,ect.

When you can get an illuminated LRSTI for $1100 that has a better reticle, better tracking, illumination and probably better glass at almost half the price, its not even worth entertaining.
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You haven't even tried the scope. If you love the Bushnell so much go talk about it in another thread.
 
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#64
So a friend of a friend who is a smith and was at SHOT already bought the 5-25. Hell my friend tells me he sold his S&B and ordered the Leupold. Said they were amazing for the price. I must admit as i recently ordered a Proof barrel to save weight the Mark 5 has been in the back of my head. 30oz for a 5-25 isn't revolutionary but it's not overly heavy either. When said friend talked to Leupold he said they told him they knew that had been out of the game so to speak in the Civilian market, especially the competition side of things and are setting out to recapture some of that market share.

I don't know that i could give the 3-18 an honest look without someone saying it remedies the flaws of the Mark 6. Will be interesting to see the turrets and the reticle selection really isn't too shabby. They have H59, their proprietary CCH, and the TMR for those that want something less busy. I've never seen that reticle before but it appears to be new. The high premium isn't there either with the CCH or H59. CCH is 2200$ and the H59 is 2300$ That puts them right in line with the XRS II. If the glass and tracking are there it will be a welcome addition the market honestly.

@wjm308 maybe someone can get you a Mark 5 3-18 to stick in an ultrashort review compilation?
841507.jpg
 
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#65
Primus said:
They have been putting out garbage for the last 20 years, how is this going to be different when it's a downgrade from what they already have on the market (mk6 and 8).
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Idk if "garbage" is the right term. Their scopes aren't bad, just overpriced. The glass also has never been bad by any means. Lacking for the price in some areas? Yes (pointing at the mark 6), but the Mark 8 glass has been phenomenal. Their tracking at least with the Mark 6 had it's issues of course as well. They've always led in the weight of their optics. There's no sense in writing them off with the Mark 5 until we see reviews. The features are there. It's simply a matter of glass quality and durability.
 
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#66
5RWill said:
If the glass and tracking are there it will be a welcome addition the market honestly.

@wjm308 maybe someone can get you a Mark 5 3-18 to stick in an ultrashort review compilation?
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I agree Will, the reticles are workable if glass and tracking are there. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I hope Leupold knows about the shortcomings of the Mark 6, I understand from a corporate perspective they are going to deny there were any issues with the Mark 6, but the fact is the shooting community is a lot more savvy than they used to be and word spreads fast in social media and forums. So, when designing the Mark 5 I truly hope they have addressed the tracking issues. Historically Leupold has priced its glass well above the rest of the market, so with the Mark 5 I hope they finally priced it within the market.

That being said, I love my lightweight scopes, its kinda my thing and for that reason Leupold has always been on the radar so would love to get my hands on one. Mile High Shooting is a bit of a drive but up near where some of my family live so I might see if I can't make a trip up there just to look at one (assuming they can keep them in stock).
 
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#67
5RWill said:
Idk if "garbage" is the right term. Their scopes aren't bad, just overpriced. The glass also has never been bad by any means. Lacking for the price in some areas? Yes (pointing at the mark 6), but the Mark 8 glass has been phenomenal. Their tracking at least with the Mark 6 had it's issues of course as well. They've always led in the weight of their optics. There's no sense in writing them off with the Mark 5 until we see reviews. The features are there. It's simply a matter of glass quality and durability.
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They are bad. When your scopes don't track they are garbage. To the dude who sold a s&b25 for one of these, he should probably see a mental professional and you would be wise to ignore anything coming out his mouth. The mark 8 is $2000 optic at $4000 price point. That's tanget theta price and it doesn't even sniff that level of quality. When you can get a brand new S&b 5-25 with XR Gen 2 for $2500, it's going to be hard to beat. You can get a nicer optic at a much higher price or a lessor optic for less money but in that price/performance realm, they still hold the crown. Leupold should just focus on fuds and hunters who don't know what quality glass is. The tactical market is too smart.
 
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#69
I agree with you on most aspects. I think Leupold got arrogant and they still seem that way to be honest. But price/performance is not that great. These days there is too much competition of quality scopes with really good glass, illuminated reticles and very price competitive. I hope the Mk 5HD is the start of changing their thinking, I hope so, but we'll see.
 
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#71
Leupold is every bit as capable of manufacturing reliable optics as any other company, and more so than others. Yes, they have had some issues in the past but nothing to the scale that many make it seem. As bad as some others, that's up for debate. I've experienced (and seen even more) problems with some very popular brands that people tout and love and anytime anything negative is said about them the bandwagon gets fired up because you bashed the most popular brand of optics out there. But Leupold is still hated on because they've had some issues. They now get written off in armchair assessments before any end users even have the product in their hands to test. Hesitation is one thing but completely writing them off is another and absolutely ridiculous.

There's one thing and one thing only keeping me from ordered a 3.6-18 Tremor 3... Mounts... It would go on my DMR rifle which I need a cantilevered mount for and there are few available and none that fit my needs. If Spuhr, Geissele, or Eratac made a cantilevered 0moa 1.5"is height 35mm mount I'd be buying one immediately.
 
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#73
I'm not hating on Leupold, but they had/have marginal glass on the Mk6 among others and Leupold acted like there were any issues. Steiner had issues with the turret and finally fixed it, but look at how the shooting community reacted when they didn't acknowledge the issues. They are still hated in some circles no matter how good they might be.

And they charge $300 plus more to get an illuminated reticle. It's 2018 and you get an illuminated reticle with every other brand at no cost, or at least it's standard. I don't know what it is about Leuplod but IMO, they have a take it or leave it attitude.

But if the Mk5HD turns out to be a winner it will be on my short list.
 
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#75
Primus said:
They are bad. When your scopes don't track they are garbage. To the dude who sold a s&b25 for one of these, he should probably see a mental professional and you would be wise to ignore anything coming out his mouth. The mark 8 is $2000 optic at $4000 price point. That's tanget theta price and it doesn't even sniff that level of quality. When you can get a brand new S&b 5-25 with XR Gen 2 for $2500, it's going to be hard to beat. You can get a nicer optic at a much higher price or a lessor optic for less money but in that price/performance realm, they still hold the crown. Leupold should just focus on fuds and hunters who don't know what quality glass is. The tactical market is too smart.
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How do you know this Mark 5 doesn't track? How do you know the glass quality of the scope? The guy who sold his scope had hands on a Mark 5. If you're going off price alone that would be enough write off the LRHS/LRTS and the Athlon Cronus alone. I don't disagree i don't think it's going to compete in the 2500-3000$ market but i wont write it off as until i've seen it. It could be an incredible value. The Mark 8 is overpriced but it does have great glass. They've sat on their reputation and mil contracts for a while and have lost market share due to such, deservedly so. This seems (to me at least) to be their attempt to regain some popularity among the PRS/competition segment.

m6z said:
Leupold loyalists will continue to defend the high prices and lack of innovation. Nothing new, I've just always found it odd.
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Who's a Leupold loyalist? Stating obvious facts about an unreleased scopes is just that, not defending them.. I currently own no Leupolds. Condemning a scope you have no experience with and hasn't even been reviewed yet based on the fact that it's Leupold, is just bias. It's the same premise that people used to try and condemn Bushnell when they got into the competition market and look at them now.
 
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#77
To the OP. I ordered a Mark 5 HD 5-25 with a CCH reticle. According to Leupold, I should have it soon. I'll try to post my review of it when I get it and get to use it From what I've been told, its supposed to be one heck of a scope for the price.
 
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#79
5RWill said:
How do you know this Mark 5 doesn't track? How do you know the glass quality of the scope? The guy who sold his scope had hands on a Mark 5. If you're going off price alone that would be enough write off the LRHS/LRTS and the Athlon Cronus alone. I don't disagree i don't think it's going to compete in the 2500-3000$ market but i wont write it off as until i've seen it. It could be an incredible value. The Mark 8 is overpriced but it does have great glass. They've sat on their reputation and mil contracts for a while and have lost market share due to such, deservedly so. This seems (to me at least) to be their attempt to regain some popularity among the PRS/competition segment.



Who's a Leupold loyalist? Stating obvious facts about an unreleased scopes is just that, not defending them.. I currently own no Leupolds. Condemning a scope you have no experience with and hasn't even been reviewed yet based on the fact that it's Leupold, is just bias. It's the same premise that people used to try and condemn Bushnell when they got into the competition market and look at them now.
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The best indicator of future performance is past performance. History is why this product will be shit and in 5 years, you will agree with me.
 
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#82
I'd like this to be a solid unit as much as the next guy, but everyone here who is expecting the worst is only doing so because Leupold has trained them to do so over the last 20 years.

It says a lot that way, way more people are willing to give a brand new unproven company like ZCO a shot at a new product and be an early adopter than are willing to give Leupold a shot and be an early adopter.
 
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#83
Primus said:
The best indicator of future performance is past performance. History is why this product will be shit and in 5 years, you will agree with me.
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Man i need that crystal ball you have lol - edit redneck beat me to that reference

Again the same premise could be used for Bushnell and it falls flat on it's face. I digress though, you dislike leupold i get it.
 
#88
5RWill said:
Again the same premise could be used for Bushnell and it falls flat on it's face. I digress though, you dislike leupold i get it.
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Howbow Vortex?

PST's had problems left and right, Gen II's still do. Yes you're going to hear about more problems with these and there will be more problems by the number because there are so many out there... Guess what, the same goes for Leupold. Look how many MK4's are out there and how widely used they were and still are. Of course you're going to hear about more problems because so many scopes exist. Until fairly recently pretty much they options you had for LR optics were MK4, NF NXS, and then you got into the high end Euro's like S&B and Hensoldt. Each pricing tier pretty much doubled. You used to buy brand new MK4 3.5-10 M1's and M3's for as low as $600 for an American made optic, NF NXS started around $1200, and S&B $1800 or at the time.

Vortex's flagship optic still has it's share of failures and people love them. I personally won't touch one after my issues with gen 1 PST's and Razors and the issues I still see people having.

I'll take my chances with a company who has has some canted reticles or tracking issues to get reliability. Anyone who doesn't track test their optics are a little insane because they can all have parts out of spec. If it doesn't track, send it back to Leupold, they will fix it. I personally know of numerous occasions where people have done this and they came back tracking 100% in a very short turn around. Sending shit back to Vortex all the time is plenty acceptable by the communities standards, so what's wrong with sending an optic back to get fine tuned?
 
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#89
redneckbmxer24 said:
Howbow Vortex?

PST's had problems left and right, Gen II's still do. Yes you're going to hear about more problems with these and there will be more problems by the number because there are so many out there... Guess what, the same goes for Leupold. Look how many MK4's are out there and how widely used they were and still are. Of course you're going to hear about more problems because so many scopes exist. Until fairly recently pretty much they options you had for LR optics were MK4, NF NXS, and then you got into the high end Euro's like S&B and Hensoldt. Each pricing tier pretty much doubled. You used to buy brand new MK4 3.5-10 M1's and M3's for as low as $600 for an American made optic, NF NXS started around $1200, and S&B $1800 or at the time.

Vortex's flagship optic still has it's share of failures and people love them. I personally won't touch one after my issues with gen 1 PST's and Razors and the issues I still see people having.

I'll take my chances with a company who has has some canted reticles or tracking issues to get reliability. Anyone who doesn't track test their optics are a little insane because they can all have parts out of spec. If it doesn't track, send it back to Leupold, they will fix it. I personally know of numerous occasions where people have done this and they came back tracking 100% in a very short turn around. Sending shit back to Vortex all the time is plenty acceptable by the communities standards, so what's wrong with sending an optic back to get fine tuned?
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Oh i remember those times. When i got into this around 08/09 it was Leupold, NXS, USO, and then S&B/Hendsoldt in the clouds. Nothing in between and absolutely no affordable FFP optics with decent glass.

That's a fair point. I think the basis upon which people look at Leupold is the fact that they sat on their laurels and contracts while every optic company under the sun saw how the market was changing and adapted. Leupold was like "here's a mark 6 for 2500$, oh illumination is 3200$" They remind me a lot of remington, though they haven't been that stagnant as they've still revamped some optics for Mil contracts. The Mark 6 i sold was 2/10ths off, guy sent it to them, they fixed it and added M5C2 knobs and it was GTG.

Funny i've heard of some guys having problems with their AMGs also, one in particular that has gone through two of them. It's a man made product, shit happens/nothing is perfect. It's still probably at #1 on the list of my optics i'm looking at for my comp rifle. For 2500$ it's going to be hard to surpass.

I asked my friend's friend what he thought about it that would make him sell his S&B. Also asked Mike and Frank on theeverydaysniper if they got their hands on one. I also wonder if the 35mm tube really helps with the 3-18. The biggest crux with that scope was the exit pupil diameter at max mag was terrible. It was like the thing really wasn't meant for 18x but more for 15x. I wonder if a slightly larger tube would alleviate some of that issue.
 
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#90
Obviously there's some haters of all optics companies, if you've been around long enough you'll eventually get burned by some company with poor customer support, but I've also learned that a bit of kindness goes a long way - treat them right and they will typically treat you right. I remember back in the early 90's I had a S&W 686 that had a trigger issue so I contacted S&W (this was back before internet when you actually had to write a letter or talk to someone on a phone) and they explained the warranty was only good for the original owner and I had bought this pistol used. I kindly asked if I could speak with the support manager and when I spoke with him I explained that the part was defective and the warranty should cover the pistol, not the owner. Guess what, they fixed my pistol for free when they did not have to, had I been belligerent with them and insisted they fix it the outcome probably would have been different.

I can understand getting upset when you've been burned by a company and feel their product was poorly designed or rather had poor QA but I also believe in second chances. I'm not too thrilled with Steiner right now because of the fiasco with the TX5i, but that doesn't mean if they came out with a TX6i or something in the future I'm just going to write them off, I certainly won't be an early adopter but would hope that they learned from past mistakes.

5RWill said:
I also wonder if the 35mm tube really helps with the 3-18. The biggest crux with that scope was the exit pupil diameter at max mag was terrible. It was like the thing really wasn't meant for 18x but more for 15x. I wonder if a slightly larger tube would alleviate some of that issue.
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Not sure if you meant exit pupil Will, that is a factor of the objective diameter divided by the magnification, any 44mm scope at 18x is going to have the same exit pupil regardless of tube diameter, in fact, a larger tube doesn't even bring in more light per se. Leupold hasn't stated why they went with a 35mm tube for the Mark 5's but I too am hoping it was to allow for better mechanics, similar to what ZCO talks about with their 36mm tubes.
 
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#91
wjm308 said:
Not sure if you meant exit pupil Will, that is a factor of the objective diameter divided by the magnification, any 44mm scope at 18x is going to have the same exit pupil regardless of tube diameter, in fact, a larger tube doesn't even bring in more light per se. Leupold hasn't stated why they went with a 35mm tube for the Mark 5's but I too am hoping it was to allow for better mechanics, similar to what ZCO talks about with their 36mm tubes.
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My terminology must be off, my mistake. What is the term or i guess reason the eyebox is so sensitive on that particular scope at max magnification? Is it just a consequence of the short design? I thought it may have just been me when i had it. Then i had three friends look through it and all of them complained. If your cheek weld wasn't 100% perfect you'd lose sight picture. I know this applies to some degree on all scopes but it made the Mark 6 almost unusable for me at 18x

To report on the Mark 5 i talked to my friend he said they liked the scope a lot. When i brought up the Mark 6, he said that Leupold told them it would run circles around the Mark 6 because of the tube and bell design. Also said the glass was more comparable to the Mark 8. Now maybe that was the reason he let go of his S&B. That is going to be impressive if it lives up to that.
 
#92
5RWill said:
Man i need that crystal ball you have lol - edit redneck beat me to that reference

Again the same premise could be used for Bushnell and it falls flat on it's face. I digress though, you dislike leupold i get it.
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Those that ignore History are doomed to repeat it. Such Hubris.

With that being said, Trace Bushnell's linage back to the days of Bausch and Lomb and they have made great products much longer then the dark years. And its not like they were hawking $400 scopes for $1500+ like Leupold. Bushnell may have made lower tier shit, but it was also priced that way. Those that have been in this game a while know B & L was good shit.
 
#93
BangBangBlatBlat said:
Where did Leupold touch you?
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Leupold is literally right down the road, and I have probably mounted more of their products in the last few years then most on this site.

I want to like them, I want to support American Made (Like their shit is even made here anyway) , and I want to support Local. They make exactly 2 products worth a shit, the Delta-point and the CQBSS. The rest are a combination of overpriced/under-engineered/poorly-built/unreliable/fragile.

Just another company full of arrogant assholes who decided to stop innovating 20 years ago because they thought they owned the market. Adapt or die.
 
#94
Primus said:
Those that ignore History are doomed to repeat it. Such Hubris.

With that being said, Trace Bushnell's linage back to the days of Bausch and Lomb and they have made great products much longer then the dark years. And its not like they were hawking $400 scopes for $1500+ like Leupold. Bushnell may have made lower tier shit, but it was also priced that way. Those that have been in this game a while know B & L was good shit.
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Doomed to repeat what? That statement literally holds no weight. Reading article about optics? I just don't hate Leupold and will give their new product an honest look.

This thread is about the Mark 5 is there any non anecdotal evidence you can give that this optic wont be good? If not what point are you making other than you consider everyone who disagrees with you wrong and Leupold is garbage? It's meaningless, i'd damn near think you were trolling. If you feel so strongly against them tell them that.
 
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#95
Okay Primus, we clearly understand you don't like Leupold. That's fine. Did you work there at one time or something and get fired? You sound a lot like that guy that shows up on every Steiner post and bashes them.
 
#96
Primus said:
Leupold is literally right down the road, and I have probably mounted more of their products in the last few years then most on this site.

I want to like them, I want to support American Made (Like their shit is even made here anyway) , and I want to support Local. They make exactly 2 products worth a shit, the Delta-point and the CQBSS. The rest are a combination of overpriced/under-engineered/poorly-built/unreliable/fragile.

Just another company full of arrogant assholes who decided to stop innovating 20 years ago because they thought they owned the market. Adapt or die.
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So it was your no-no place?
 
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#97
Primus said:
Such Hubris.
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Seriously? That's a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black don't you think? Do you honestly think that if a company fails at making a product it can't learn from its mistakes and rectify that in a future product? I'm willing to give the Leupold Mark 5HD a chance and I realize they've had some struggles in this market, but sight unseen you're already condemning it, talk about hubris.
 
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#98
Primus said:
Leupold is literally right down the road, and I have probably mounted more of their products in the last few years then most on this site.

I want to like them, I want to support American Made (Like their shit is even made here anyway) , and I want to support Local. They make exactly 2 products worth a shit, the Delta-point and the CQBSS. The rest are a combination of overpriced/under-engineered/poorly-built/unreliable/fragile.

Just another company full of arrogant assholes who decided to stop innovating 20 years ago because they thought they owned the market. Adapt or die.
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Uhhhh.... I don’t know if you have been paying attention the last few years , but Leupold has come out with a bunch of new/improved lines.

All new binocular lines
Handheld Thermals
VX-3i
VX-5HD
VX-6HD

VX-Freedom
Mark 5HD

While I agree Leupold thought they owned the market a while ago, it seems pretty obvious they are innovating. It’s obvious they have focused on making improvments for their bread and butter customers (hunters) and are pivoting towards the “long range” shooters.

I am looking forward to getting my hands on a Mark 5HD personally. Everything I have seen (YouTube) and heard from people who have handled one, make it sounds like Leupold really listened to the customers and have an feature rich product at a competitive price
 
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#99
I think we all can agree to disagree. Leupolds latest offering seem nice but no one knows until we get them in our hands to test and see if they really have taken a step forward. But IMO they have been arrogant and still are in many ways, $500 surcharge for an illuminated reticle in this market when Illuminated reticles come standard, is just stupid and why they don't acknowledge that is beyond me.
 
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#100
I was asking Frank and Mike on theeveryday sniper FB about the mark 5. Mike has them at MHS. He said they were better than he was expecting. He posted some pics through his phone between the 5-25 MK5 (i presume) and the NF 7-35 with the Tremor reticle. Not indicative of glass quality but i think it's going to be pretty decent. One is the NF the other is the MK5. While clarity/resolution doesn't really show up on a camera. CA it usually pics up, which is what i was looking for. Bit different color to both. Whenever David gets some in i'm going to look through one.
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