so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

[MontanaMarine]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

Out at a mile, drop from 1750-1760 yards is 25", a descent angle of 3.97 degrees.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I've shot 175's out to 1250 with consistency. near perfect conditions though, and the steel was ringing just fine. I've found intact projectiles and fragmented ones. I just assume the intact ones landed in soft dirt on impact. After impacting, the dirt is removed by the energy laying out in the open to be mistaken that it just landed on the ground. I've been recreationally shooting long distance for 5 years now. I also eat my piece of humble pie every day that I'm on this particular forum. I know jack shit compared to most on here. Sometimes I feel like a professor on some of our California forums, but on here I'll be a noob for life with the wealth of knowledge that some possess here on the hide. Speaking in absolutes can land you in the hot seat. But op, thanks for posting as I always learn a lot from threads like this.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

thanks Montana for the helpful response... math settles most questions. I'll take your data as correct. My guess, and we shouldn't guess when the math is easy, was that the angle was more like 10-20 degrees at a mile, and like 5-10 at 1000. I am surprised and I will have to look up the same scenarios with my software.

Clearly the trajectory curves displayed are highly compressed and look much steeper than when you zoom in to look at 990 to 1000 yards for example.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I just took drop in inches between 10 yard distances from the external ballistics calulator, and used this online tool to figure out the angles. Just a matter of converting horizontal distance to inches also, for the inputs.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

 

[cali_tz]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

yeah I went to a similar site using your drop vs distance data, came up with same numbers. obviously the drop is not what anyone would call steep. I learned something too on this thread, thanks.

 

[blksno]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cbass, plot out the trajectory with your fav ballistic software and you'll see for yourself. </div></div>

I have, and so have others. Glad you were able to learn something here today. Not being sarcastic either.
I was in the same boat till I did the math a while back. It <span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span> the compressed drop charts that make things <span style="text-decoration: underline">APPEAR</span> like they are coming more steep...but in reality, they are pretty darn flat...even for the rainbow round (.308)

 

[ARS031]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ars, keep limiting your posts, you're not smart enough to 'efight'. </div></div>

And your judging that by what? The same logic you used to decide that because rounds were found on top of the dirt at 800m+, that shooting them any distance beyond that is useless?

I'm the one who should post less eh.. when your the one who is realizing that ballistic trajectory charts aren't scaled to exactly represent the bullets angle of drop?

I do limit my posts thank you, but at some point, everyone comes across someone who's "weekend hobbyist know it all" attitude rubs them the wrong way.

You enjoy shooting, that's great. There are people on this board who do it for a living. If you come across a situation that has you thinking, why not ask guys here whats gone on, instead of assuming you know and then arguing your points?

You'll get a lot more input from people who might know whats happening if you approach it that way.

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I dont think cali_tz would be scared to take a hit from a 175gr at 1800 yards.. I think it would bounce right off him...I got ya back bro, prove them wrong!

 

[cali_tz]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

at no range do I want to test the 175SMK from a 308. Let's just settle that one.

 

[CajunBuldg]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I am a noob, and when compared to the experience of the individuals on this site I probably have never shot a gun. lol... People here have a lot of great knowledge and experience. I think the op in posting could have posed a question vs. something that sounded fact and would have gotten a lot "nicer" feedback. The experienced do share their knowledge very willingly. I have learned a lot reading other threads.

In my experience 175 smk loads from Southwest Ammo are fantastic for 900-1100 yards. I have chosen not to reload at this time, due to the lack of initial funds required to begin, and SW Ammo has been a great gap filler until I do. All of my misses are a result of me and me alone. At a mile? No way I could do a cold bore, but I am sure there are ones here that can. I did not have enough skill nor travel in my optic when I tried so it was a very nice hold over shot. Took seven to get there and hit 3 of 4. I stopped at that point with a smile on my face. It was fun to try and to see how consistent I could be, nothing more. All of the hits I have experienced from 900 - a mile, which was against a vertical piece of steel have all resulted in noticeable splatters with report on the steel. With your situation, the only other thing which I might add is that the impact effect on an object is vastly different when the object is close to perpendicular to the flight plane and that which is only at a slight angle. Especially if the shot is being taken prone across flat terrain with no rocks for it to "splatter" against. All I know is, in my experience my 22in barrel with the 175 SMK at 2650 are capable of doing more than I can, with the right person behind the gun.

 

[CajunBuldg]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

Thank you to the posters in this thread. That was some great information which was shared!

 

[saint.308]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

Its really simple.
Dirt is soft compared to lead and copper.
Sand and dirt stop bullets quickly but cause very little deformation.
Bullets meant to expand will. that's what they are designed to do.
SMK and FMJ bullets are not meant to expand and won't.

I've seen .50BMG bullets whole at 200 yards just rifling marks.
There is a reason the military uses sand bags.

Box of truth, and a few other penetration test, show quality video of what bullets look like after hitting other things.

Once you see how bullets react in different mediums. Its easy to see why you found bullets at that range.
you will also see how it literally has no correlation to effectiveness.

honestly i think its more impressive to shoot a mile with a .308 then with a .338. calling it a waste is a shame.


The day somebody does it with a .22LR is what I'm waiting for.

 

[timelinex]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CajunBuldg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At a mile? No way I could do a cold bore, but I am sure there are ones here that can.</div></div>

I've had hits at a mile with a 308, to attest to it being possible. But I really doubt that someone can consistently get cold bore hits on a reasonably sized target at a mile with a 308. Can someone on here actually do this?

Consistent cold bore hits at any extended range, from any platform, is already a very impressive feat. I'm just not sure anyone can read 1 miles worth of wind, along its lob like trajectory, precisely enough to consistently get cold bore hits with a 308. Environmental factors are insanely exaggerated at that distance with a 308.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

In 2002, Accurate Rifle Magazine ran a story titled "The Quest For The Two Mile Prairie Dog" about two 'Vitruvian Man' kinda guys from Colorado who set out to build rifles they could shoot to two miles. One guy was shooting a .338 LM but the other was shooting a .308 AI.

The guy with the .308 AI was getting to 3520 yards driving 220-gr SMKs to 2400 fps launched with 6 degrees (365.6 moa) of elevation from his 100 yard zero. They figured the SMKs would have been running a shade over 700 fps at impact (apparently with no transonic problem), so remaining energy would have been a bit more than a typical .32 ACP at the muzzle, even at <span style="font-weight: bold">two</span> miles.

Granted the air is kinda scarce in Colorado, but my QuickLoad says a plain old .308 Win can drive 220-gr SMKs to 2400 fps even without P.O. Ackley's 'improvements' (all you need is 39 grains of Varget and a 30" barrel). And they were shooting to <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">two</span></span> miles, not one. <span style="text-decoration: underline">One</span> mile should just be a matter of picking the right components.

The .338, BTW, could klang a 36" gong one shot in five @3520 yards.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

FWIW, I have played with the 220gr SMK in my 308Win.

20.5" 1/12 bbl
moly'd 220 SMK
49gr RL-17
2.82" oal
2545 fps.

They shoot fine. Furthest I shot it was out to a mile or so, at 4500' el.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I don't see the wtfp is here. Elevation, sectional density, velocity, and all around knowing how to drive a rifle. That's what matters. 1k is easy if you know how to steer it. Not trying to diss on anybody but good gosh. At sea level a 175 smk is good to about 1150 at 2668fps depending on atmospheric conditions. I am 332 asl

 

[yz45067]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

Longest confirmed kill by a .308 rifle was 1250 meters (1367 yards, 0.78 miles). Shot was taken by Staff Sgt Jim Gilliland of the US Army standard issue m-24 and issued ammo.

 

[timelinex]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rgates3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Longest confirmed kill by a .308 rifle was 1250 meters (1367 yards, 0.78 miles). Shot was taken by Staff Sgt Jim Gilliland of the US Army standard issue m-24 and issued ammo. </div></div>
Not to discredit any of that stuff.. but it doesn't really mean much of anything. Many people on here have killed small critters at up to 500 yards with a 22.. doubt those same people would claim that 22 has great accuracy at that range.

If you could look at how many shots are taken by everyone that has tried to in the army at those extended ranges (1000yds+) and how many kills there are from it.. That would tell a truer story.

I don't think anyone doubts that the 308 has enough energy at extended distances... Its more about the way it bucks environmental conditions over that extended period of time, which allows accurate and predicatable placement of the shot.

 

[popndrop]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I live in Ca - and I don't want this to reflect poorly on all of the serious shooters from this state.
This is the range we've been shooting at a buddy's place- The max distance we had was 1580 - the targets at that distance was worn out USMC 50bmg targets (IPSC Shaped, I don't have exact dimensions), the closer targets were 66% and 1/2 IPSC. I have cold bore hits with .308, 300 and 338lm on the furthest targets - more than a couple times. I have no problem hitting the 1580 with my 18" OBR - I know its not a mile...but if my rifle and pda can get me to that distance, i'm fairly certain its not going to fail me for the next couple hundred yards.

As far as damage at that distance - maybe it is just the fact that we were shooting over canyons, but you can hear even the .308 at 1580. If it has enough energy to gong the heavy 50 targets at that distance, i'm pretty sure it'd punch threw people pretty easy.
I tried to mark the different targets, of course you really can't see them in this picture, but they're there. The furthest is in the top right, then there is another at around 1500, a couple around 1300 and the closest is 1200. The .338lm rings the metal really well, the .300wm does good work as well, but even the .308 can be heard with the naked ear or with electronic muffs.

also had a closer knoll to shoot from where we cut the distance down by 600 yards.

At these distances all the hits were very recognizable - even hits from the 5.56 at 700yards can be heard...(some people think the 556 is only good to 600 yards and wouldn't hurt a fly past 601 HAAAA...)

 

[cali_tz]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

1580 cold bore hits with any length 308, esp an 18", for me and anyone I know who shoots well, is as much probability as it is skill. Even with 338LM at that distance. I am not saying we'd be way off target, but dancing around an IPSC is to be expected.

I've seen very skilled shooters at Thunder Ranch go out to the 1180 with 308 on a not too windy day, and have plenty of challenge to hit it every time, leave alone cold bore.

 

[popndrop]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1580 cold bore hits with any length 308, esp an 18", for me and anyone I know who shoots well, is as much probability as it is skill. Even with 338LM at that distance. I am not saying we'd be way off target, but dancing around an IPSC is to be expected.

I've seen very skilled shooters at Thunder Ranch go out to the 1180 with 308 on a not too windy day, and have plenty of challenge to hit it every time, leave alone cold bore. </div></div>

I shoot often. I know my guns. I trust my gun will hit where it is supposed to every time if I do my part. I practice the "My Part" part of that. It isn't magic. Its science, practice and good equipment.
It is also a very perishable skill - if I don't practice often enough, then no cold-bore hits. If I do, then the steel sings.

PS -
One of the guys in the pictures came back from 2 weeks with Accuracy First - He said after the first few days they were hitting steel at 1 mile all day in wind. Many of them shooting the 18", 16" and even 14.5" Gas Guns. He isn't one to exaggerate.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I agree with the practice vs perish... we don't get a chance to get behind the gun on a weekly basis which would greatly help getting to the point of confident cold bore hits at all reasonable distances.

 

[Alpine 338]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

I came close, 1640-yards that is. We had a no-wind morning, and I was shooting my 338LM at 1640-yards which just happens to be 1500-meters. Well, I got restless and in need of a challenge, I broke out the Rem 5R, and using Prvi Match 175-gr FMJBT, I was able to hit the 1640-yard target on my second and third shot.
Since I didn't have a recorded velocity with this ammo and rifle, using the dope I had for 1200-yards, I changed the velocity in JBM to match that dope. Once I had that calculation, I dialed 23.6-mils according to JBM. First shot was exactly 1-mil low, and it was easy to see my miss since we haven't had much rain this Summer. Then I go to dial in another mil, and I'm at my max turret elevation, so I hold a mil, and second shot impacts the target. I could see the target shutter, but couldn't see the splash at 15X, but my spotter could.
I handed the rifle to my spotter to try, and he couldn't make any hits. I then tried once more, and with the same hold, I had another solid hit and only 8-inches from my first.
Funny thing, a couple months ago I tried shooting at the same target, but from a different location to make it a full mile, and I couldn't even see where my bullets were impacting. After 15 or so rounds down range, I gave up.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

assuming it was steel you are shooting, were you able to hear the hits?

 

[Alpine 338]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

It was a 25"W x 39"H T-1 steel plate, 3/16" thick hung between two T-post with nylon webbing. Couldn't hear anything with the 308, but one hit that was low center with the 338LM made a loud ring and sounded like I hit a bell. That divet was larger and deeper then the other hits with the 338LM.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

when we get hits with 338LM at the mile, they are heard, several seconds later of course, but you have to listen carefully for it, as the ring is not loud by any means.
If you don't have electronic muffs, then you have time to shoot, spot the hit optically, then casually lift one ear muff and a second or too later the ring comes in. pretty cool.

 

[lvgolfer962]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

We had some targets set up @ 1850 yds and 1635yds this weekend for my 7mm saum and my buddies 300wm. When i got bored with the saum i broke out the 308 to see if i could get a hit or two.


I was shooting 178 hpbt @ 2700 fps and it took 104 moa to make the 1850 target. Took 18 shots and hit it once lol. With my elec muffs it sounded like someone throwing a pebble at the steel.

Lots of fun but not very practical

 

[redeye]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

Hahaha, this is one of the best forums. A lot of great info on here. Thanks to all.

 

[jameswm3]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

those are not 175 smk's, nor did they every smack steel @ 1 k, those belong to some dirt shooter

 

[bigjake722003]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

Have you ever thought about 308 subsonic load?

 

[Kouki]

Re: so you want to shoot 308 to a mile?

Those first pictures look similar to a .50 bmg round I dug out of the sand that was shot from around 500m. I just started digging where the crater was.