Night Vision SOK's TigIR Z6+ Initial Review + Video

[Choid]

Last night had some issues and ran out of time recollimating. Don't like to zero/collimate after 10pm. A shot or three for critter control or outback for long distance is fine, but need to finish recollimating first.

Did talk to Jay today on the phone. What he does, as just an example. He collimates at 100yds on 1x. Then on 2x at 100yds, if his hold would be 1 mil at 300yds, then he collimates to where he's hitting 3.6 inches high at 100yds, etc. That's Jay's "trick".

So then in the field, if he shoot a yote a 100yds on 1x and the partner retreats to 300yds and stops to look back, he pushes the 2x button on the Tig and he's ready to shoot, he just dialed his DOPE for 300yds.

More to come !

This seems like the best way to use the multiple digital mags to me. It isn't for group shooting, but very practical.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well more delays

Sunday we burned 400 acres including most of my pastures ... that needed to get done and the conditions were right ... but I was (literally) "smoked" by that evening, so took Sunday night off ...

And second want to do a "factory reset" on the Tig as part of testing and have a question in to Andres about that, waiting for response. Will resume testing once that is done.

 

[smarcus]

How do these compare in image quality to a stand alone scope like a Trijicon Reap IR gen 2 35mm? Asking cause I own a Reap and have always wondered if a clip on such as this was "better". Thanks.

 

[SkyScrapin]

How do these compare in image quality to a stand alone scope like a Trijicon Reap IR gen 2 35mm? Asking cause I own a Reap and have always wondered if a clip on such as this was "better". Thanks.

At base mag of 2.5x on the reap, and base mag of 2.5x on your day scope with Tig, it will look very similar. If you move to 2x digital on each unit, the Tig is better due to the higher res display and likely something happening with the Tig software imaging. If you move to 2x digital on the Reap and 5x optical on the day scope paired with Tig at 1x, the Tig is better.

These are my observations.

 

[smarcus]

At base mag of 2.5x on the reap, and base mag of 2.5x on your day scope with Tig, it will look very similar. If you move to 2x digital on each unit, the Tig is better due to the higher res display and likely something happening with the Tig software imaging. If you move to 2x digital on the Reap and 5x optical on the day scope paired with Tig at 1x, the Tig is better.

These are my observations.

Thanks very much!

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok, collimation issue I was having resolved last night - it was "operator error"

So, collimation procedure complete and ready to go try some longer distance shooting and observing tonight!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Meanwhile, Fox News Reported that Tree Huggers and Environmentalists experienced a huge spike in clinical depression rates close to Wigwamitus's abode.

 

[wigwamitus]

Got started late last night, so didn't get to go out to the back pasture for long distance with the Tig.

Did perform cattle/coop overwatch with Tig last night and got another coon.

With the amount of vegetation increasing, its becoming tougher and tougher to shoot into or through the woods. Much more intervening vegetation. I fired 4 rds at the coon last night (90m back in the woods, though several layers of vegetation) ... after first rd, coon moved about 2 feet and stopped, after second rd, coon moved about 2 feet and stopped, after 3rd rd coon went belly up legs wiggling, after 4th rd coon stopped moving. If I had missed, I would've expected the coon to haul ass running as they usually do, that didn't happen. But there's a lot of vegetation for the rds to tag while they are enroute.
But the Tig got another critter, so its useful for coop defense.

Watching farther out into the alfalfa patch, 200yds to 400yds ... switching between 1x, 2x and 4x digital on the Tig ... with 3x base on the day scope, the higher digital magnifications do help with PID. I was able to confirm all the smaller critters out there were calves, none were neighbor dogs or yotes. So, all was well, out in the pasture.

Will be trying again tonight to get out for longer distance shooting and observation.

 

[wigwamitus]

Finally got out for long distance shoot with the Tig. Of course it was raining. Not a hard rain, not a light rain, just a plain ole regular rain
Been raining all day, well about 21 hours now, good steady rain ... best for the ground/grass.

So, had 7.62(22) with L&S mk6 3-18x T3 and Tig. FGMM 175gr RRS, 4-wheeler, helmet with skeet and 14 and kestrel. Radius on the rifle. Propane torch.

Rolled out to target area and heated up a target. Then rolled to FFP at 300yds (308yds by the radius) and setup. Used the "hot" filter. Had the Tig on 1x digital and the day scope on 4.5x. Fired and got a "ping".
Walked to 400yds (401 per the radius). Setup and fired and got a "ping".
Walked to 500yds (518 per the radius). Setup and fire and got a "ping". Walked back to the 4-wheeler and rolled down to the targets.

Now if I had to guess (and I do, since I didn't walk down after each hit), I guess the 300yd hit was the higher one, the 400yd hit was the middle one and the 500yd hit was the lower one. Just because it got harder and harder to aim the further out I got.
I stayed on 4.5x on the day scope and 1x on the Tig. That lower hit probably might have been a miss on a yote it was 4.5 inches below the aiming point. ... that said, I score a hit as a hit and a miss as a miss, so in this case, it was a hit.

Since I don't dial with my day scopes on the bolt guns, I think I will try switching over to one of the mk12s. The one I have setup has an L&S mk4 2.5-8x TMR on it and I can will dial that scope. So I'll collimate on that scope on 1x and 2x and 4x and then see what that scheme can do and if I can even get to 600yds or 700yds. I expect the mk12s to get to 750yds, but not sure they can do it with the Tig. We will try it and see.

 

[wigwamitus]

Got Tig collimated last night on the mk12 at 100m. Collimated the Tig on 4x. This mk12 has L&S mk4 2.5-8x TMR.
The L&S remained and will remain on 2.5x optical. I'll flip the Tig between 1x digital and 4x digital (collimated to shoot on 4x digital, i.e. net 10x magnification) out to 457 meters (500yds). These turrets are dual marked for BDC and MOA with 1/2 MOA per click, so 11 clicks up is indicated for 457 meters (I'm gradually switching myself over to meters. My brain was meters from the Army when I first started shooting scoped rifles 9 years ago, so got my brain switched over the yards during the past 9 years, now switching back to meters

Using IMI 77gr ammo, since I still have about 1500yrds left. When I confirmed MV I got 2698 (versus 2700 I already had in the BC) and SD = 13.5. The final group size with the Tig last night was 0.5 inches(8/16ths I measure group sizes in 16ths since that's what my tape measure is in) (from 100m) so with the combination of 4x digital and 2.5x optical, I'm able to get decent precision off the tripod, so that bodes well for possibility of going beyond 457m tonight.

 

[wigwamitus]

Same setup as above .... rolled out to target area heated up same target, with the splotches from Friday still on it ... and rolled to 300-ish.

Since no radius on the mk12, and bushy arc elilte 1600 LRF, that's my oldest LRF. Used USGI 3x slipped on pvs-14 to see the IR laser in the LRF and walked the laser onto the target, got 333yds. Dialed up 9 clicks on the elevation turret (4.5 MOA) ... the Tig needs about 30s to go thru several collimations to clear itself up, so got thru that. Since the scope has illum, I used that also. Wind was nil, so aimed and fired and walked down to the target and back and this hit was right near one of the other hits, on the upper left of the torso. Walked back and picked up the tripod and walked to the 500yd FFP, which is a known distance spot and set up. Dialed 22 clicks and fired, got a "ding" ... walked back to the 4-wheeler, packed up the tripod and rolled down to the target for the target pic. This hit was near the middle hit from Friday.

So again, the Tig was on 4x digital, that's where I was collimated ... and the day scope was on 2.5x so the net magnification was 10x. And that seems to work.

Conditions tonight were clear, new moon high in the sky, a few burns going on in the distance. And wind was nil.

I have a TACTACAM on back order but no idea when it will arrive.

 

[Evolution 9]

Nice shooting!

when you collimated the Tig on 4x digital, was that collimated to your 500 yard zero or 100 yard zero?

 

[wigwamitus]

tig collimated at 100m zero on 4x digital - see post #66 above ^^

==
Some of my cattle are in the pasture where the berm is with the 500yd to 1050yd targets ... and they aren't supposed to be in there, that's "best brome" So I need to find the hole in the fence and fix it (so I can shoot into it)

So right now I can't get beyond 500yds.

 

[Evolution 9]

“(collimated to shoot on 4x digital, i.e. net 10x magnification) out to 457 meters (500yds).”

So you were at 100 yards, dialed for a 500 yard shot, collimated the Tig on 4X while dialed for 500 yards?

It sounds like you’re using the “trick” described before where you collimate the Tig at a different zero for each magnification, thus giving you a few specific ranges at which you can engage with digital magnification. Is that right?

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok, I'll restate for clarity !!!


1 - I zeroed the day scope at 100m

2 - I collimated the Tig in front of the day scope, with the day scope on 2.5x and the Tig on 4x digital ... shooting at 100m while collimating.

3 - When shooting at 333yds and 500yds, the Tig was on 4x digital and the day scope was on 2.5x optical.
When shooting at 333yds, I dialed up 9 clicks (1/2 MOA clicks) and when shooting at 500yds, I dialed up 22 clicks (1/2 MOA clicks).

Hopefully that is more clear !!??
Please ask away if not and I will try harder !!!

 

[Evolution 9]

Nope, we’re talking past each other

I’ll ask some yes no questions...

1. Are you saying that once collimated, a person can use this at any digital magnification level in exactly the same way they would a UTC as long as they dial turrets? Meaning, day dope and night (clip on dope) are identical at all ranges?

2. you have explained for years (including to me-thank you for all your help) that for a NV or thermal clip-on to work, it has to be net 1x. This makes sense to all of us. Is this now incorrect?

thanks!

 

[SkyScrapin]

Nope, we’re talking past each other

I’ll ask some yes no questions...

1. Are you saying that once collimated, a person can use this at any digital magnification level in exactly the same way they would a UTC as long as they dial turrets? Meaning, day dope and night (clip on dope) are identical at all ranges?

2. you have explained for years (including to me-thank you for all your help) that for a NV or thermal clip-on to work, it has to be net 1x. This makes sense to all of us. Is this now incorrect?

thanks!

1. Yes
2. It depends on the user preference.

Further, first observation, I think we'd all prefer to have Clip-On at 1x and do all the magnifying with day scope (ie, optical), especially so we can use "reticle holds". For some people, that's just not as important. In my experience, everyone wants to shoot over 300 yards at night while hunting, but reality is, most people don't and never will. The common problem is proper range estimations without a LRF. Second observation, the Tig has exceptional digital magnification which is not the case with every other clip-on we have tested. The downside to digital magnification is, you're affectively having to "dial" your dope at non-point blank ranges. Think of it as a second focal plane. Third observation, the Tig is not a UTCxii in that it gets fuzzier quicker. This is to be expected as the Tig is half the price, and well, there's always a trade-off. For example, going back to Wig's shooting as of late, 2.5x Optical and 4x digital nets 10x overall magnification - this operation looks less fuzzy to wig than say a pure 10x optical and 1x digital magnification on clip-on. Again, it all boils down to user preferences, what you perceive, what your tolerances are, etc.

For all of the above reasons, I have said the Tig is about 90% of what the UTCxii is, but again, that all boils down to user perception. Your % will likely differ from my experience, or the next guys experience. What we can confirm exclusively through testing is that it's capable at 500 yard impacts, the furthest it has been tested to date.

Back to point number 2, it is a moving target depending on the end users goals. If you're firmly in the "hold" camp, you will only ever want to shoot at 1x. If you are in the "dial" camp, you can make use of digital magnification zoom levels. All of this is to say, even if you're in the "hold" camp and shoot exclusively on 1x, you're not limited with the Tig because 2x, 4x, etc., are all usable and increase your PID ranges.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well if you want only Yes or No answers (Perry Mason !! )

1a - NO

1b - NO

2 - NO

==
However, I suspect those answers may generate additional questions, so I will attempt to answer !!

==
1a - The UTC has 0.5x and 2x in addition to the 1x. The UTC/x/xii have digital magnification as a number of thermal clipons do, to aid in observation, not for shooting. Intent is to dial digital magnification back to 1x when shooting. So, it is correct to say user can dial digital magnification on Tig for purposes of observation.
What we are trying to do with the Tig that we don't do with other Thermal clipons is also shoot with digital magnification. That's because the Tig has the unique feature that the digital magnification on the Tig looks better at higher levels (4x, 6x) than the equivalent optical magnification on the day scope. The theory is that this is due to some magic in the image processing software for the Tig.

1b - I must admit, I'm not sure what this question means, so I took the "safe" answer and said "no". Could you restate please ?

2 - If you want to use the reticle to hold, then you need 1x on the clipon. If using a magnified (non 1x) clipon, we have an SFP-like situation.
If I'm using an SFP day scope at a magnification power where the reticle is not valid, then I know I can treat the reticle as a duplex and dial (elevation and wind if needed), because I know the center of the reticle is always valid. Same applies to using the Tig under magnification other than 1x.

Now there is the "Jay Trick" where we can use the six saves on the Tig to save collimation for the various magnifications at different distances ... and that sounds interesting, but I have not tried that trick yet !!!

 

[Evolution 9]

I’ll state some things as facts but please step in and explain where I get off base

Let’s try it this way...

Put your gun on a bipod or tripod where it won’t move...

Put your scope on max magnification with Tig on any magnification you choose in front of your scope...

Take note of which pixel your 5th hash mark is on (5 mils, 5 MOA, whatever... just note the pixel).

Now dial that same amount with your turret (5 mils, 5 MOA, etc.)...

You’ll notice your main crosshairs are now pointing at that exact same pixel... because that’s how scopes work....

You now understand the concept that if you can dial, you can hold, and if you can’t hold, you can’t dial, because they do the exact same thing...

So if reticle holds don’t work with digital magnification then neither does dialing (and for the same reason)...

Now I’m fully aware that there are at least two possible collimating tricks (as mentioned before) to get around this at specific ranges.

lastly,

set up for a 1000 yard shot (no need to take the shot, just dial for it with the Tig at 1x and lock the gun in the tripod as if you’re ready to shoot)...

without disturbing the gun, click through the digital magnification ranges on the Tig and note how the target retreats below your aiming point.

see, your Tig doesn’t know your scope is interested in a pixel far below the center of its screen, so it’s going to zoom in on the center pixel, thus driving lower targets (pixels) south.

Please help a guy out and set me straight here

 

[SkyScrapin]

There's a whole lot of saying the same thing in different way in the last few posts.

 

[wigwamitus]

I guess I still believe SFP scopes exist. Maybe I'm wrong

 

[Evolution 9]

I guess I still believe SFP scopes exist. Maybe I'm wrong

try everything I just said with your second focal plane scope. Then try it with a FFP scope. The results will be identical.

 

[SkyScrapin]

try everything I just said with your second focal plane scope. Then try it with a FFP scope. The results will be identical.

He Collimated at 4x at 100 yards. Then he went to his 500 yard firing position, dialed his normal 500 yard dope and made an impact. This can be accomplished with FFP or SFP alike. Same result.

 

[Evolution 9]

There’s at least one collimating trick that would allow that to happen.

Some of the prior wording makes me wonder if it was used.

The fact that focusing your eye on a specific pixel by dialing supposedly works and focusing your eye on that exact same pixel by the help of the reticle magically doesn’t, makes me all the more interested in getting to the bottom of it.

I’ve been trying like the dickens to get a straight answer about a couple of things but I guess I’ll chalk it up to my communication skills.

I expect some of this to become more clear when more of these are in private hands. I’m really glad these are finally available stateside

 

[Evolution 9]

Wig has been SUPER helpful on the phone for about an hour. Thank you!!!!!!!

I look forward to more testing and information on this unit as he puts it through its paces. It’s definitely one of the more exciting developments in the thermal world right now

 

[jstokes1]

Got to play with mine last night and found out how to optimize the image. The images are a little blurry (because taking photos behind a day optic feehand isn't the easiet), but I'll try some more. The past 3 days have been a mix of snow and rain without sunlight...so pretty much abysmal conditions.... and this little unit still shines bright. I'm quite impressed.

 

[wigwamitus]

Ok, I finally got something done today/tonight.

During the day I did a tracking test with the mk12-2 L&S mk4 2.5-8x TMR and the Tig (RRS) at 100yds. I'm shooting some factory IMI 77gr these days, to preserve my loaded rounds for a rainy day.

Confirmed day scope zero, then mounted Tig, then fired 5 groups all aimed at 1 handwarmer. The first group was actually to confirm collimation on the Tig. I'm happy to report the first group was all on the handwarmer so the Tig can be dismounted and remounted without POI shift !!
After first group, dialed 20 clicks left and fired second group, then dialed 20 clicks up and fired third group, then dialed 20 clicks right and fired fourth group, then dialed 20 clicks down and fired 5th group. A good ole "box" test.
The centers of the groups were ~2.75" apart.
Taking the 4x digital magnification on the Tig and dividing that into the nominal (what you should get with the day scope) distance between the groups, i.e. 10.47 (these are 1/2MOA clicks on the day scope - so 20 clicks is 10 MOA which is 10.47 inches), we get 10.47/4 = 2.625 so about 4.8% variance. Some of which could've been my measurements which were approximate.
So, that translates to the clicks on the day scope being 1/8 MOA clicks if we are collimated to 4x digital magnification on the Tig.

==

At 500yds, I need to hold or dial for 11 MOA, that would be 88 clicks ... which on the dial would normally be 44 MOA (if they were 1/2 MOA clicks) and I didn't expect to be able to dial that as the scope only has a nominal travel of 90 MOA. So, I decided to try 400yds tonight. Since the plan was to shoot from a know distance spot in the pasture, I didn't bring a range finder .

So after the sun set I rolled out and heated the steel and rolled up to a spot I know is 400yds and setup the RRS The cows were nearby and came over for treats, I had none, but I had a field of cows and calves between me and the target, so I had to wait. I dialed the 56 clicks, but I topped out at 43 clicks. So I dialed back down to my zero.
I scanned about and saw a critter about 50yards from the target. And walked down towards the critter. It was way too small to be a calf, so it was a target. I didn't have a range finder, so I counted 50 steps as I walked and the stopped and checked the target, it was still there. At 350 I needed to dial 40 clicks (5 MOA) so I did . The cows were not between me and the target so I had a shot. The wind was nil, so I aimed dead on but a little low, just in case the range was a little farther than 350 (since the critter was not exactly between me and the target, but off to the left. Fired and critter went legs up wiggling ... it wiggled for a while and then stopped. Now it was too low to see, down in the grass.

So, now I aimed at the heated steel and aimed at the "heart" and fired 3 shots, all were hits. Then got on the 4-wheeler and rolled down towards the critter first. Stopped and scanned a couple of times to find it while on the way down. I didn't bring NV on my head as the moon was full. It was cloudy so the moon was a bit obscured, but I could still see fine to navigate in the open pasture.
Found the critter and took pic. It was a rabbit.

Then rolled over to the steel and took pic.

So a decent group. That 4th hole in the middle of that group is the result of me firing an API round at the target about a year ago. I don't usually do that (its the only time) ... but I needed to test those bullets, so I made a hole in the target.
But the other 3 splotches are the group from tonight.

Summary: So with the 4x digital, then really we are limited by the scope travel and depending on your scope, you might not be able to get to 500yds or beyond. So for long distance, we will have to try 2x or 1x. I think I'll try 2x next. At 2x I'll have 1/4 MOA clicks, so if I can only dial up 42-43 clicks that gives me just short of 500yds. I need 44 clicks for 44yds. I need 42 clicks for 490yds, so that's what I'll try next, though I need to collimate for 2x. And I'll dial 5x on the day scope to preserve the 10x net magnification and see how that works.

 

[wigwamitus]

Last night I collimated same mk12 at 2x digital on the tig and 4x optical on the day scope. Net magnification 8x. After I got collimated, the yotes started howling near the cattle, so I switched into overwatch mode and was unable to go long with the tig last night. Hope to be able to get that done night.

 

[wigwamitus]

2021-04-26
2045-2130
70F
10 MPH SSW

Goal: Tig at 500yds

Environment: Today was the hottest day we've had all year, probably touched 80F at the peak, tonight I read 68F on porch upon return. Wind has been audible all day. We're under a burn ban. Full moon was huge and bright, no head nods tonight.

Equipment: Same as for last several days mk12 556(18) L&S mk4 2.5-8x TMR, 77gr IMI @2700. RRS, Tig-IR

Activity: Rolled out to target and heated with propane torch. Rolled up to FFP and setup.

As usual the real image was way better than this pic. My new Kyocera phone is IPX68 (why I got it) but the phone cam is the worst I've ever had. Life is full of trade-offs.

Threw two tuffs of grass up in the air, the wind was full value.
Measured wind with Kestrel for 2m got avg 10.8 MPH.

The tig was on 2x digital and the day scope was on 4x optical Going forward I will write that as D2O4. So net 8x magnification. So per the 2x digital my click values are halved so normal 1/2 moa clicks are 1/4 moa. At 490yds AB says 10.5 MOA up so 42 clicks up is what I dialed. With the wind avg being 10.8 and thinking it would be a little less farther down the right (I shoot off the side of a ridge on this stage) I dialed for 10 MPH which AB said was 5 MOA or 20 clicks (adjusted).
First shot was a miss, I saw the dust to the right of the target. I aimed a left side of target and second shot was a hit. It was a little high. Could've been me wobbling in the wind - I was shooting off the tripod but seated on the running board of the 4-wheeler on the downwind side of the 4-wheeler. I'm shooting a tad bit down hill, that might have added an inch. But a miss is a miss and a hit is a hit, as always.

Summary/Results:
This further confirms the scaling factor of multiplying the click value by the reciprocal of the digital magnification on the tig.
The image was better tonight and in part, I attribute that to a better balance of digital and optical magnification.
I top out at 43 clicks on this scope currently, this is as far as I can get with this scope and these magnification settings.
This is also as far as I can shoot on this stage right now (500yds).
I can shoot on my other stage, but I have to have a range finder there as there are no known distance positions over there. So I'll switch back to the bolt gun and use D1O9 over there.

 

[wigwamitus]

So to summarize what's been done so far:

1 - Test with Tig on 1x digital, day scope on 4.5x optical at 300yds, 400yds and 500yds holding with the reticle like normal. Got 3 first round hits.
2 - Test in a regular rain while shooting, two times, no issue other than water on the lenses. The second time I used electrical tape to cover the gap between the clipon and the day scope and no water on lenses.
3 - Dismount/remount tig and absolutely no PIO shift !!
4 - Tracking test with tig on 4x digital and day scope on 2.5x optical The tracking test showed that click values on the day scope are reduced by the reciprocal of the tig magnification ( 1/2 moa click value becomes 1/8 moa with tig on 4x and 1/4 moa with tig on 2x)
5 - Shooting at 350yds with tig on 4x digital and day scope on 2.5x optical, hit rabbit and got good 3rd group on steel with 40 clicks up ( 5 moa up)
6 - Shooting at 490yds with tig on 2x digital and day scope on 4x optical, in 10.8 MPH wind. 1st rd missed, saw dirt of splash of miss, adjusted and got 2nd round hit. This with dialing 42 clicks up (10.5 MOA) and 20 clicks left for wind (5 MOA).
7 - Also shoot two coons IIRC with the Tig both inside 100yds near chicken coop.
8 - Generally collimating the tig for a given digital magnification level for a given rifle/scope/ammo combination required 7-8 rds expended.

I think that's the highlights from the testing I've been able to do over the past 2-ish weeks. More to come !!
If there's any test you want to see let me know and I'll add it to the list !

 

[jstokes1]

To add, here's some ambient-temperatured items I took last night. Mild sun with moderate cloud cover, 55⁰ F midday then dropping down to mid 30's at the time of this picture. Building was around 60 yards away. 2.5x optical magnification and 0.8x digital. Had some deer at about 150 yards during the capturing of this picture, but they moved off before I could get them in this photo. Going back tonight to take more images...bonus is that the thermal conditions are MUCH better today.

 

[jstokes1]

Took some more images through the Tig tonight. The thermal conditions have been very ideal the last couple of days and finally got to capitalize on them to show you all the max potential (image wise).

One thing I have found out per say, and Wig can corroborate, is that this unit looks fantastic within about 300 yards. The images are sharp and very, very smooth. I would say that it out paces the UTCx within this distance in raw processing power/display.

However, the major downfall is that PID past this distance is a slight challenge, due to the fact that it doesn't not possess the option of enhancing the sharpness. Surprisingly, this is the first fixed focus thermal I have played with that lacks the option for a manual digital sharpness adjustment, and it really hurts the unit when you get out to distance for identification due to this softer image.

Wig and I have hypothesized that the developers wanted to eliminate the possibility of seeing pixels, but that comes at a detriment to PID at distance. Now granted, I can still identify deer at 1000 yards, but making the distinction between a coyote and a calf would be very difficult at that distance.

On a positive note, the color pallets at least have a "boost" setting that slightly enhances the image sharpness and contrast, giving more detail at distance. You can also lower the brightness, which dramatically improves the image. Also, I have found that I prefer the "CR" and "BCR" color pallets to be my pallets of choice, by far giving the best image quality over even traditional pallets such as black/white hot. Typically color pallets outside of the gold standards are gimmicky/useless (anyone with an appreciable amount time behind a thermal knows this), but not with this unit (they still have useless ones, but they can be toggled off at your leisure).

It's light, user intuitive, and build like a tank, but that lack of fine image focusing is my biggest disappointment by far. This could easily be remedied by updating the firmware to include an option in the image menu to enhance the sharpness (hopefully we can convince them in doing so!). This unit is close... so very close to perfection that it physically hurts me.

But anyway, here's some pictures that at least come close to representing what is seen through the optic. For reference, the day optic is a NF ATACR 1-8x24, and the zoomed in image is at 8x optical magnification.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Also, I have found that I prefer the "CR" and "BCR" color pallets to be my pallets of choice, by far giving the best image quality over even traditional pallets such as black/white hot. Typically color pallets outside of the gold standards are gimmicky/useless (anyone with an appreciable amount time behind a thermal knows this), but not with this unit (they still have useless ones, but they can be toggled off at your leisure).

You provided pictures of the BCR color palette that you favor. Can you provide some photo's of the CR Palette you also favor.

With the Flir Thermosight PTS line I have found that the Arctic Palette is by far the best for longer range PID and also the best that provides excellent contrast between a live animal vs terrain. Arctic provides a much crisper outline of the animal via a very defined strong orange outline and then fills in the body of the animal in a iron hot glowing white/orangeish color. The algorithm is written such that you have a lot less pixelation in that Palette.

 

[wigwamitus]

On, my side, I confirmed collimation with the Tig back on 1x on tig on the bolt gun last night, so I can try to push beyond 500yds on steel tonight. I was dead on for windage but a tad low on elevation, I clicked up one click and group was centered on the handwarmer.

For shooting I'm using BWH as that gets me a lot of contrast and I can see the reticle easier. I've actually been using the illum on the reticles. Both with the L&S mk4 2.5-8x TMR on the mk12 and the L&S mk6 3-18x T3. Since the targets have been hot, they're white and with the red reticles everything shows up well.

I also used the Tig + bolt gun for cattle overwatch later, but no yotes were seen. I could see the cattle fine. I can zoom in to 18x. Things get fuzzy but it would help with shot placement. I can still tell a cow is a cow, etc.

This weekend I'll try mounting new TACTACAM and see if those pics look better.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well, Preston has an opportunity coming up to shoot the Tig, so emergency shipping it back to him.

I've enjoyed my 2+ weeks with the Tig !!!

So summarize, here's my earlier summary for completeness:


1 - Test with Tig on 1x digital, day scope on 4.5x optical at 300yds, 400yds and 500yds holding with the reticle like normal. Got 3 first round hits.
2 - Test in a regular rain while shooting, two times, no issue other than water on the lenses. The second time I used electrical tape to cover the gap between the clipon and the day scope and no water on lenses.
3 - Dismount/remount tig and absolutely no PIO shift !!
4 - Tracking test with tig on 4x digital and day scope on 2.5x optical The tracking test showed that click values on the day scope are reduced by the reciprocal of the tig magnification ( 1/2 moa click value becomes 1/8 moa with tig on 4x and 1/4 moa with tig on 2x)
5 - Shooting at 350yds with tig on 4x digital and day scope on 2.5x optical, hit rabbit and got good 3rd group on steel with 40 clicks up ( 5 moa up)
6 - Shooting at 490yds with tig on 2x digital and day scope on 4x optical, in 10.8 MPH wind. 1st rd missed, saw dirt of splash of miss, adjusted and got 2nd round hit. This with dialing 42 clicks up (10.5 MOA) and 20 clicks left for wind (5 MOA).
7 - Also shoot two coons IIRC with the Tig both inside 100yds near chicken coop.
8 - Generally collimating the tig for a given digital magnification level for a given rifle/scope/ammo combination required 7-8 rds expended.

And on top of that, I would say, if I was using it, I think the sweet spot is with the Tig on 2x digital magnification and the day scope under about 4.5x optical magnification. That yields 8x to 9x net magnification, more than enough for night shooting.
I would scan on lowest power to maximize FOV.
I would use with one of my scopes I dial with, primarily
NF NSX 2.5-10x
L&S mk4 2.5-8x
I would pre-dial to about the 2/3rds point of the distance bracket I would expect to be shooting in. So for cattle overwatch, distance bracket is 100-400yds, so I would dial for 300yds that 7 clicks up on the L&S scope (on mk12) or 22 clicks up on the NF scope for one of the bolt guns (1.1 mils). Then use the critter as the retcile if there was insufficient time to refine the dialed distance during critter encounter.
The alternative, would be (to use the "Jay Method") which would be leaving the gun dialed for the zero distance ... and collimating the tig for various distances and various magnifications, like 100yds for 1x and 300yds for 2x and 400yds for 4x and 500yds for 6x ... and leaving the scope on lowest power at all times.
I think I prefer to leave the digital magnification set, as that way, I can dial and know (better) what my clicks are worth, whereas if I was going to dial with the Jay method, my click values would be different at each digital magnification level ... and in the heat of the moment, more likely to make an error. YMMV !!!

So, I don't think its a UTC killer, but in its price bracket, there's no commercial thermal clipon even close. They SNIPE cannot replicate what the Tig can do, for instance.

 

[SkyScrapin]

If anyone will be at the ETTS night shoot this Saturday, I'll have this sucker available for your viewing pleasure.

Call, text, pm: happy to coordinate.

 

[SkyScrapin]

The Tig has been back in my loving hands for the past few days, and I've been doing a bit of testing on several optics (list to follow). What I've found is that while the Tig is not a UTCx or xii, my observation is that it's still a best in class performer relative to it's price point, and continues to lead the pack in terms of features. The only thermal with more features is the COTI or ECOTI that I'm aware of.

Collimation & Repeatability: To reduce chances of thermal bleed using hand warmers, and since it was 88F yesterday, I decided to leverage Thermbrite thermal targets from our friend @DownRangeThermal to insure the target image had as close to a perfect shape while zero'ing. Traditionally I'm more of a hand warmer guy, but because this is a clip-on that I intend to use at range, it was important to have the best situation for zeroing. On 1x, it took me 7 shots. On 2x digital, it took me 5 shots. Then I proceeded to test repeatability by taking it on-and-off several times for groups. No issues with repeatability. The entire collimation process was simple and painless.

Mounts: When I originally took receipt of the first units, I was still waiting on the mounts to ship, and rather than being patient and waiting, I put the Tig in a RRS Vyce and threw a NF 2.5-20 on a RRS surveillance kit. The kit allows you to manipulated the optical centers to get them in near perfect alignment to my, as Wig say, Mk 1 Mod 0 eye-ballz. Having since taken it back in hand, I wanted to learn me a bit about the unit, and so I re-read the manual (lol, right?), removed the 36mm mount and replaced with a 38mm mount to began testing.

Scopes Tested: S&B 3-27x, Hensoldt 3.5-26x, S&B 5-20, ATACR 8x, Vortex 1-10. All of these optics are mounted at 1.5", 1.54" or 1.65". The best performing optics were the LPVOs sitting in the 1.54" Badger Condition One mounts. My estimation is that the higher mag optics have considerably more glass lined up inside the housings that it distorts the image and takes away from it's crispiness. None of the optics are slouches, and I'd say it will require further testing, but so far, the LPVOs went 2 for 2 with different weather conditions.

Magnification: The Tig is at home around the 3-5x mag range. You can bump it higher, but your image will start to "wash" (of note, I did not say pixelate of which it does not). I have found that the display brightness appears to also impact gain, therefor allowing images to be clearer on the lower settings of 1-3. If you bump it up to 5 or 6, it's fairly bright and it seems to wash out. I don't like shooting at super high brightness and I'm typically very low on my gain levels leaving this unit to be a pretty good performer from that perspective. But... I tested it at all ranges on all brightness settings and it's a noticeable difference. Back to magnification - I found myself shooting at 3-4x optical and 2x Digital. When the image starts to degrade as you increase optical magnification while at 1x digital, you will notice dialing back the optical mag and instead bumping the digital zoom to 2x will pretty things up again. After confirming impacts at 361 yards using hold overs at 1x on the Tig I bumped the digital magnification to 2x. I was running short on ammo and wanted to test holdover on 2x Digital at ranges further than we had tested thus far.

2x Digital and Holdovers: I'm a big fan of holding over in just about every sense of long range precision shooting. It's faster, less variables when it's pitch black, and with a little help from a Raptar, it's painless. Ranging 361y, my hold on 1x was 1.9mils. Clicking to 2x, that turns into 3.8mils in the reticle. Testing it on steel, it was dead nuts. Pushing it further I confirmed again at 461y and 561y that you have to multiply your dope by a factor of 2 on 2x digital. For translation, that's 10.2 mils at 561y for my 18" 6.8 SPC shooting factory XM68 90g projos which would normally carry a 5.1 mil hold had the clip-on been at 1x digital.

Summary: Putting aside any moral reasons one might have for long range engagements on fleshy targets, the biggest implication is your ranging capability. Without having your dope memorized in tandem with an LRF, you're going to be SOL. Otherwise, you'd need a Raptar S ES or S. For this reason, considering the scopes sweet spot for magnification is around 3-5x, and knowing that I'm collimated at 1x and 2x, it's suites my application for taking game inside of 300 yards even with an AB enabled Raptar. But just to be clear, the Tig is definitely capable of hitting IPSC size steel plates at 561y as confirmed by me. I'm excited to stack pigs with this sucker later on this fall.

The system: 18" 6.8spc shooting factory XM68 with a Sandman-S, Vortex 1-10 in a Badger C1 1.54" zero moa, Raptar. Notice how much rail space is unused pulling the TigIR way closer to the shooter giving you easier access to manipulating the thermal settings.

Optic between 3-4x and Tig on 1x. Not using the Boosted WH pallet noted by BWH. This is my local range with steel starting at 361y and pushing out to 1170y on the very end. The cross hair is aimed between the 561y and 666y berm. The steel was heated by the sun alone, and as you can see, it was very much sunny and 88F. I was shocked to see the steel so blatantly without applying any supplement heat via a torch. I have done this same test with a UTCxii, and it wasn't even close to this. Difference in BAE and FLIR? We'll let the scientists sort that out. The IPSC is full size at each range per my knowledge. Did not appear to be 66% or smaller.

Same as above, but now at 2x digital. The Zoom and Pallet button are one in the same. When I bumped it to 2x, I held the button too long and instead of magnifying, it moved from WH to BWH. So I had to hit the button again to push it to 2x.

Height over bore is 1.54" on the Vortex 1-10 and 1.5" on the Tig. Close enough for government work. Not, the Raptar clear the Tig perfectly.

Pic of the same range but through day optic between 3-4x. I had to use my ole hand to block out the sun or else the camera wouldn't pick up any of the pics. You can see a slight glare in each photo because of this.

A chunk of our order will be clearing customs tomorrow, and delivering shortly thereafter. Too our customers: be on the look out for a UPS shipment mid-week!

Preston

 

[jeffl838]

Man this thing is so cool. Thanks for posting guys.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Welp, we got more in yesterday along with the accessories

Thinking about making a set of binos

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

these things are real cool. for anyone on the fence i would say go for it. ive only had mine outto shoot one weekend but it has me hooked when it comes to hunting hogs / yotes.

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

i am trying to figure out a softcase for this thing. anyone come up with one or have ideas? it'll fit in your prototypical eagle or other type padded NV insert with the velcro opened way up, but didnt want to fit easily ( or with enough wiggle to easily get it out of the pouch) on a tyr nv pouch or eagle gp/canteen pouch. writing this maybe i'll try an OR 1 L pouch, but i think it'll still be too tight. just looking for something to toss on a belt or in a pack

 

[shoobe01]

I'd suggest you check dimensions of this:

Amazon.com : HAZARD 4 Jelly Roll(TM) (Small) Padded Molle Lens Case - Coyote : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : HAZARD 4 Jelly Roll(TM) (Small) Padded Molle Lens Case - Coyote : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

I have the long one, used it very happily (in the field) for an Astroscope and lens, and it's been reliable, padded enough, un-snaggy, and is round so works well with stuff like that. Other padded cases I have are either very specific to the device, or are pretty rectangular so I bet wouldn't work for the TigIR with it's big lens, as well as being rather long.

 

[EWS6]

i am trying to figure out a softcase for this thing. anyone come up with one or have ideas? it'll fit in your prototypical eagle or other type padded NV insert with the velcro opened way up, but didnt want to fit easily ( or with enough wiggle to easily get it out of the pouch) on a tyr nv pouch or eagle gp/canteen pouch. writing this maybe i'll try an OR 1 L pouch, but i think it'll still be too tight. just looking for something to toss on a belt or in a pack

GP Pouch 9x7x3

crye precision

www.cryeprecision.com

GP 9x7x3 Foam Insert

crye precision

www.cryeprecision.com

 

[cornhuskid]

Has anyone tried this with an ACOG? I have a 3.5x, 4x and 6x I'm curious if this would work with.

 

[avidflyer]

I think it would work great with a elcan or acog

Has anyone tried this with an ACOG? I have a 3.5x, 4x and 6x I'm curious if this would work with.

 

[wigwamitus]

I've used with a couple of ACOGs, TA01 (4x) and SDO (3.5x) and yes it works great. Stokes has used with Elcans and works great with them as well. As near as I can tell, Tig was design optimized for Elcans.

 

[shoobe01]

A previous model they made was actually designed (I assume for a specific end user contract) to attach /directly/ to the ELCAN DR.

And similar power optics are on mil rifles all over. So if not that specifically, then something like it at low power almost certainly as the design intent, like this (Hensoldt ZO) the TIG was demoed with.

I've used several clipons in several ways, with magnifiers down to 3x. Works fine. Varies from one to another, but somewhere between 2.25 and 2.75 is where the ones I tried start falling apart. I assume both clipon and FOV of the day scope matter, but 3x always seems a safe bet to make them work IME.

 

[cornhuskid]

Super info, thank you all.

 

[TheHorta]

Tig works exceptionally well with these optics I’ve used it with:

4x ACOG
1/4x Elcan (on 4x)
1.5/6x Elcan (on 6x)
1-6x Sig Tango 6 (3-6x)
1-10x Razor Gen III (3-10x)
3-27x SB PMII High Power (3-12x)

The Tig excels at 3-10x. It’s uselss below 3x (tunnels) and degrades quickly above 10x. Better to use the Tig’s internal digital magnification at lower optical magnifications than push higher mags on your optic.

 

[LSUbeatUby40]

Summary of experiences with and thoughts about Tig-IR over past 2 nights.

We have the following tools with which to optimize the image at any given point in time:
1 - brightness button (button 1, momentary tap)
2 - filter selection (boost filter versus non-boost filter, button 2, press and hold)
3 - NUC (button 1, press and hold, or flip down objective cover and flip back up)

Over last two nights I've experienced both higher winds and rain, thus some challenges for image optimization which was perfect as this gave opportunity to see the unit's ability to function in these conditions.

On this first night, as reported above, I was able to collimate the unit to my L&S Mk6 3-18x T3 on 762(22) Rem700/Criterion/Bravo gun which I usually shoot off RRS tripod when overwatching calving cows.
Since then I've remounted it about 8 times and last night shot a coon at about 90 yds thru three layers of vegetation up in a tree. So the Tig can kill stuff, even after multiple remounts.

So, in wind and rain conditions we are fighting "washout" meaning it becomes more difficult to distinguish terrain elements.
Usually washout does not affect critters so much as they are much hotter, but washout can make the terrain harder to see and you loose orientation and ability to judge distances based on terrain features.
So with the tig, the first line of defense against washout is turning down the brightness.
The second line of defense against washout is filter selection. Andres calls these "filters" whereas often thermal users call them "pallets".
For each filter, there are two versions, one call "boost" and one which is not called boost. Like "Black Hot" (BH) and Boost Black Hot" (BBH).

We have a question in about this, but my guess is that the boost version has a different "gain" setting in the core/sensor.
So, by toggling back and forth between BH (Black Hot) and BBH (Boost Black Hot) I was able to have another lever to adjust image.

And of course nucing, last night I found it useful to do a few manual nucs, to optimize image.
Normally all my thermals are manual nuc, and I don't even think about doing manual nucs, like shifting gears on a vehicle, it just happens .
But there were a few circumstances were manual nucs helped with the Tig.

So armed with those tools, I was able to get some pretty good images with the Tig and I'll show some examples below.

Other aspects of the unit that stood out, compared to my UTCs I was running side by side:

a - Tiny size of Tig, 4.5 inches long. The smallest clipon of any sort I've used so far.

b - Very fast start up. I didn't time it, but by the time you start a UTC wait for it to load and the do the first manual nuc, I'd guess its about 6 seconds. The Tig seems like sub-second. Very fast.

c - Uses 16650 batteries which I was using, and I ran it for about 8 hours before I got a "blinking" battery light, which I think means, we are loosing voltage. I plan to use it until it shuts down, to go thru the whole cycle.

d - The positions of the buttons are different from any other unit I've used, 2 on the left side, one on the top and 1 on the back.
Working on memorizing which buttons to what and best way to postion my hand for each. I'll just say I'm working thru the learning curve on the buttons !

e - The menu items are very intuitive and well documented. Even though the manual was translated from German, its short and helpful.

I will continue to test the unit at least for the rest of this week. If any questions, please ask.

==
Ok now for some pics:

All pics are of cattle at 277 to 330 yards, through L&S Mk6 3-18x T3 scope. Optical magnification on the day scope at 3x unless otherwise stated.
Digital magnification on Tig is as shown in the image, otherwise 1x. Clipons used in the comparison are

Andres Tig-IR 6z+
BAE UTC-x (640)
BAE UTC (320)

Conditions were 20-25 MPH winds except where noted once it started raining. These shots were taken over two different nights in three different sessions, but each group where taken together, side by side in the same conditions.

Be aware I'm out there getting blown around by the wind, trying to hold the phone cam at the correct eye relief and line it up behind the day scope in 3 dimensions to take the pic.
And I sucque at it So, these images are an order of magnitude worse than what you see with the MK1EB.

Tig

Tig, 2x digital 3x optical net magnification 6x

UTC(320)

UTC-x

==
Tig, rain 2x digital, 3x optical, 6x net magnification

==
Learnings on image:

Adjusting brightness helps alot, so don't be bashful about tapping the #1 button.

Switching between BBH and BH helps also.
One feature that I like is the ability to turn on and off a number of menu items, such as the "filters". So by default, I would use BBH, BH, WH and BWH (boost black hot, black hot, white hot and boost white hot).

Nucing helps, especially after first starting up the unit. Just like with any other thermal, nuc the sh^t out of it !!

More to come !!!

Sorry to rehash this, but I also just got a TigIR 6z+. Love it but also noticed your pics show the screen doesn't seem centered in the scope like you think it would be with in-line scope mounting (flat part of the top of the OLED display)

I have the 39mm adaptor plate and I just got a reptilia 39mm mount for exact lining and the pic still looks like yours above. Kinda blows my mind, but if it works I am cool with it.