Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

T

Two Shoes

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 8, 2001
626
7
75
Dallas,Tx
#1
<span style="font-weight: bold">Want to make your ,308 Ammo loading tons faster?.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Pick up a Lyman "M" Die, and a Redding crimp Die, to close case mouth neck expansion after seating,just set the crimp die deep enough to straighten the flare( DO NOT CRIMP BULLET).</span>

Be careful NOT to OVER expand the mouths, (just works your brass too much), just set the die up to open enough to flare the mouth JUST enough to allow the BTHP to go past the I.D. of the case neck.

Eliminates chamfering inside case mouths, N.T. is approx .003.

 
#2
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

I just recently picked that combo up... I'm having issues with the M die though... When I first ordered it the 30 cal die came with a 22 cal center to it. When I called them they apologized and shipped out a new center but I'm unable to get the center down low enough to the point where it will actually bell the neck... Wonder if I need to call them again?
 
#4
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brian427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What makes the Redding Crimp die better than the Lee Crimp die.

Brian </div></div>

Brian,
Redding products are far superior in quality to Lee.That said, use what ya got, want.........no biggie.
That said, it's a personal choice, as I stated we do not want to CRIMP anything, just CLOSE the bell.
wink.gif
 
#6
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bh-ltr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just recently picked that combo up... I'm having issues with the M die though... When I first ordered it the 30 cal die came with a 22 cal center to it. When I called them they apologized and shipped out a new center but I'm unable to get the center down low enough to the point where it will actually bell the neck... Wonder if I need to call them again? </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Sounds like your die holding the mandrel is improperly adusted off the shell plate holder.........ck that out.</span>
 
#8
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

As he said, his intention is not to crimp.

His intention, I believe, is to flare the neck so he doesn't need to inside chamfer to seat the bullet without shaving it.
Then, he uses the crimp tool to close the flare enough that it doesn't hang up in the action.

Is this a good description, Two Shoes?
 
#9
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

I bought it directly from Lyman... The box says its item number 7349002 but I have reason to doubt that.. (let me explain).

When I first received it it seemed like nothing was happening at all. Upon taking the die apart I noticed that the center of the die (the part that actually does the belling) had 22 stamped into the end of it. I assumed this was a caliber and sure enough it fit into a .223 casing just nicely.

I then contacted Lyman and they got me out a new center piece this one has 30R stamped onto it.

The die body its self has LYMAN NECK EXPAND M-2 A07 stamped into it. Currently I have the die body adjusted down as far as it will go and still allow the press to make a full stroke. This is in a Forester Co-Ax (I'm testing operations in a single stage before moving the whole thing over to the Dillon 550). Anyway with the die body in this configuration the die body is so tall that it won't allow me to set the center down far enough for the first lip to engage the shell neck.

Anyone else have different pieces than I do?
 
#10
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

bh-ltr,

You have the same problem that I did. Go to the hardware store and buy several washers that will fit between the stem and the head (NOTE: Also buy light duty loc-tite). Place metal washers on the stem and apply loc-tite (or the mandrel WILL back out over time and play hell with neck tension) and screw manderl on finger tight. You can also "trim" the bottom of the die with a dremel or belt sander.
 
#11
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

This seems like a design flaw in a 30 cal die. Seems that you should be able to make a die that can cover the height of 300WM or maybe H&H (dunno whats the tallest) to a 308. Interesting solution though! I like it. I think I may call Lyman and mention it to them just to see if they either have a solution (or to find out if they are familiar with the issue).
 
#12
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Gentlemen

Several years ago, another Sniper site had this discussion. The guys were having similar problems. The answer was to use the Long version (there are two actually). The item number for the long one is: 7349002 "30 Long" Neck Expand (M) Die.

Hope this helps and is what you were aiming at (NPI)

Doug
 
#13
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Hrm. I think I'll be giving Lyman a call. When I ordered this die I was under the impression that it could be used for 308. When it arrived it had a 22 cal mandrel. Now it won't reach the neck of a 308 casing. So far they have been quite responsive to make things right. I'm sure that they'll be right on top of it getting things taken care of. From my experience so far Lyman's customer service has been top notch.

EDIT: One thing that bothers me though. For each die they ship a name with it as to who made it and when you call with a problem of what you were shipped they ask you if you have this person's name. It was an honest mistake probably and I didn't want to get a factory worker into trouble for a simple mistake so I simply stated that I'd lost the name. They seem to still be able to take care of you with out incriminating one of their employees. Not sure what people's feelings are on that here but this time I figured I'd save a neck. All in all Lyman has been a good company to deal with! They seem to be committed to quality.
 
#15
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

bh,
give them the name, their simply after QC, so they and mainly YOU do not have to JACK around when you buy their products, you get what you order the first time.It costs the company tons of $$$$, and lost time for your simple, but PITA error....caused by ole#6................

Old adage................

"If you don't have time to do it right the First time, then what makes you think you will have More the second time?".

 
#17
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

The thing that seemed odd is that its not ole#6. Its a persons first name and last initial. The main reason I didn't want to do it was cause it seemed too personal. But I understand the wanting to improve QC too.
 
#18
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

It goes beyond "ole#6". Ole #6 was given the wrong parts to assemble and didn't catch it. Remember the .22 part. Are the wrong parts being produced for a given part number, or has there been an inventory problem? QC means that they are catching errors that have already been committed. Quality means that the process doesn't produce errors. While it has been American management's legacy to look for a goat rather than a solution to an inherent problem, recognizing a problem creates the opportunity to improve the production system. It would be better to give Lyman the information they need. Problems won't be recognized and solved without it.
 
#19
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bh-ltr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The thing that seemed odd is that its not ole#6. Its a persons first name and last initial. The main reason I didn't want to do it was cause it seemed too personal. But I understand the wanting to improve QC too. </div></div>


I strongly agree with giving them the name, doubly so since they provided the means for you to do it, and then specificly asked for it. Surely they don't have so many great employees that they would roll a head for one brainfart, but if a pattern starts to develope, then they can make the necessary adjustments...

I live by my work, no reason to get all fuzzy over someone else not taking pride in their work(if that's the case).

 
#20
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

A lot of what I do I learned from TS, esp @ the M Die. My 0.02, use the Dillon press, two strokes with two tool heads and you're done.

4. Size the case on the first tool head. (Lapua brass)
a. Station #1 Redding S-Die with a .339" bushing and decapping rod installed, but no sizing ball.
b. Station #2 Redding Competition Die with a .336" bushing.
c. Station #3 Redding Body Die
d. Station #4 Sinclair Mandrel Die

New_ToolHd_lg.jpg


<span style="font-weight: bold">Complete Process Described here...</span>
 
#21
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Remember guys, the "M" die was originally made to allow the seating of cast bullets without deformation. There is a step in the "M" die mandrel that opens the case up just a "skosh" more to allow the entrance and proper alignment of a cast bullet. This die was God-sent to us reloaders of cast rifle bulelts.

Adjust the die so that the mandrel opens the neck, but not so deep that the step opens it up that last bit.

My experience (and it has been 30+ years) is that this die is wonderful for eliminating over neck tensioning jacketed rifle bullets in cases that have been neck sized with the "normal" dies. Just rememebr to lube the inside of the cases when using it and do not crimp.

The best solution to neck tension is to buy the Redding dies that have replaceable neck bushings and get the bushing size that gives you .002" neck tension.
 
#22
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Just curious...why the need to close down the belled mouth at all. I use the M-die in a few applications and don't bother. It's my crazy thinking that perhaps that belled mouth might help center the cartridge in an otherwise sloppy chamber right at the point it could be used most.....right before the bore. I can't think of a reason to bother closing it down for the average bolt action.
 
#24
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

What about one of these .

It does everything from .22 to .45, without having to buy different dies or bushings. Some people are not fond of Lee dies, but if all you are trying to do is flare the case mouth a bit, how bad can it be?

 
#26
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Two Shoes,

I just wanted to throw out my two cents on Redding dies.

I bought a sizing die for .223, thinking that I was getting something superior to my Lee dies. I have some Fed GMM brass I wanted to use. It only took about three cases to break the first decapping pin, and a couple more to do the second one.

I contacted Redding and they sent me replacement pins with a note to stop trying to decap military brass. I went back to my Lee dies and didn't have any more problems.

I've heard good things about Redding dies and may have simply gotten a bad die from them.

Indiansinger
 
#27
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Never heard that one, Fed Primers usually fall out by themselves...............LOL
Doesn't the Lee set have a set up, where they will GIVE, slide up, prior to breaking?.
 
#34
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Roger C. Carpenter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two Shoes,

I just wanted to throw out my two cents on Redding dies.

I bought a sizing die for .223, thinking that I was getting something superior to my Lee dies. I have some Fed GMM brass I wanted to use. It only took about three cases to break the first decapping pin, and a couple more to do the second one.

I contacted Redding and they sent me replacement pins with a note to stop trying to decap military brass. I went back to my Lee dies and didn't have any more problems.

I've heard good things about Redding dies and may have simply gotten a bad die from them.

Indiansinger
</div></div>

Old thread, but just happened to re-read................
Roger, the LEE Dies use a ONE piece Rod w/ a non replaceable decapping pin, Reddings are designed to break, and can be replaced w/out the need to repace the ENTIRE shaft, like if you broke a LEE decap rod.
 
#36
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Guys why are you all anti-crimp? Would a crimp not help build more even pressure before the bullet started to move? Especially in factory chambers where it is not possible to seat the bullet long enough to touch the lands and groves? Just curious?
 
#37
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how adding an extra step to bell the mouth of a case and then yet another step to crimp the mouth shut is going to speed up anyone's reloading process.
 
#38
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

"Redding products are far superior in quality to Lee."

Well, Redding stuff is sure prettier than Lee's, externally anyway. But it's the insides that do the work and I have found NO average difference in "quality" of ammo loaded between ANY dies atributable to the brand itself.

I love the Lyman M dies so much that I use them instead of comventional expanders for ALL of my reloading. That tiny extra flare insures that no bullet heel gets damaged in seating, either cast or jacketed.

The Lyman M die does come in Long and Short sizes, refering to the cartrige it is expected to be used with and not the die itself. I can't imagine either size being too short to work in a .308 case! Something is definately wrong with that. I got the Short M for .30 carbine but now use it to expand ALL of my FL sized .30 cal stuff, from Carbine to .300 Winnie. All it needs is a simple adjustment to compensate for the different cartridge lengths.

I don't use a crimper to remove that extra little mouth flare but, if I did, it would be a Lee FCD crimper simply because it isn't so totally case length dependant to get a consistant job.

Lee's Collet Neck Sizer is the best neck die I've ever tried, including the much more expensive Redding, etc, bushing types. The Lee die needs no lube, it leaves the necks concentric and with a consistant inside diameter, no matter any thickness variations in the necks. What more could I ask of a neck die?
smile.gif
 
#39
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Just one caveat regarding the Lee Collet Neck Sizer. You need to keep the collet -- where it contacts the die body interior -- lubed with a bit of grease. And you need to check this every couple of hundred rounds or so. Otherwise, the collet can bind inside the body and crush your case, and/or get scratched.

I like this die a lot, even with that bit of maintenance required. It's WAY quicker than using case lube with other dies, for dang sure.
 
#42
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Another problem with the lee collet die is that the brass will not grip the bullet after the brass has been work hardened. The solution to that is to anneal the case necks. The lee collet dies are definately easier on the brass. I get alot more life out of the brass.
Does the expander die get rid of the little brass ring inside the neck after I deburr it? I get little scratches on the bullets. I found this out when I pulled a bullet with my kinetic bullet puller.
Redding has treated me well, when I have dealt with them, which was a couple of weeks ago. They told me that they have a prototype kit that will allow their powder measure to be mounted to the Dillon 550 .
Hi ??



Thank you for using Redding Reloading Equipment. If you forward your name and address, we’ll send new decapping rods to you. Please forward the part number of your die set also. It’s located on the end of the die box.



We have a prototype Dillon linkage kit, but it doesn’t work well enough to release yet. When we get some free time, we may work on it some more.



Regards,



Patrick T. Ryan



Redding Reloading Equipment

1089 Starr Road

Cortland, NY 13045



607-753-3331

FAX 607-756-8445
 
#44
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

I "think" I'm about to speed things up...have one of the new forster bump dies coming. Apparently no lube needed....one stroke sizes the neck with a bushing, decaps and bumps the shoulder. I hope it's this simple...others are reporting instant love affairs with the die. (And virtual zero runnout)
 
#45
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

An alternative, inexpensive it is, to all this brain damage is to simply make better case lube. Then you can use your FL sizing die and be happy.

FWIW, a toothpaste tube of Lee case lube mixed about 6 parts 90% isopropyl alcohol to 1 part lube and applied with a common atomizer (used windex bottle or the like)and let air dry for about 20 minutes. I can lube 1000 cases in about 6 or 7 minutes. The lube dries onto the cases, and they can be stored indefinitely while lubed up, and they don't attract lint or grit or anything.

I put the empties in an old cat pan and squirt away. Doesn't take but about 6 squirts to fully lube every case in the cat pan. I sort of roll 'em around in there a bit to make sure all sides of the cases "get some."

Toss them in the tumbler after sizing and trimming and voila! Ready to load. Best of all, cleaning the lube off is optional. The cases are sort of ugly if you don't clean them, but they shoot the same.

YMMV.
 
#46
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I get little scratches on the bullets. I found this out when I pulled a bullet with my kinetic bullet puller.</div></div>

^^That probably occurred as they came OUT of the case.^^

I take some polish and my dremel and polish the expander ball on all my dies. Less drag, smoother handle stroke, maybe less working of the brass, but I don't know about that one...
000201DD.gif


I have the Lee collet neck sizer, but have only used it on my Browning BAR .308 so far. I haven't picked up the Sav. 12FV yet...
 
#47
Re: Speed up your .308 Reloading Process

Chamfering doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. I feel like I get consistent neck tension by not having little burs on the inside of the case mouth. Am I missing something?

Appreciate the tip though.
 
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