Speeding ticket question.

[ChrisBCS]

I can not believe this thread has gone on for now 42 posts.
Man up, pay the ticket and slow down...you wont win

Listen, for everyone repeating "man up" or some variation on that theme, I challenge you to point out where I'm actually not doing exactly that.
I have my suspicions that there are troopers, Highway Patrol, State Police, etc. among the LEO on this board. My second cousin was a trooper in North Carolina his whole career, and I have a huge amount of respect for the profession. Much of his work was not just traffic enforcement, but daily motorist assistance and the like took up huge amounts of his time, tremendously service oriented, and he loved it.

Hence, I started this thread out of curiosity and for my own edification to ask two primary questions. First, I am not an expert on what motivates troopers to give out tickets in individual situations, nor how they clock speeds, so I asked: can my speed by accurately clocked by a trooper going the opposed direction in a highway with a several foot wide grass median? Second, I did not deny I was speeding, but the specific allegation says more than 10% over. I do not believe I was doing that. Hence the question, should I take the ticket/is it worth going to court? This is also in an area where speed limits rapidly and randomly move back and forth between posted 70 to 75.

The trooper was courteous, professional, and allowed me to exit my vehicle and interact with him between our two cars, as I had a dog in the back seat who likes to bark at strangers.

At the close of our encounter, I shook his hand and thanked him for his service to his community.

This would be the first ticket actually on my record, so I'm not terribly worried about insurance impacts.

Having had the questions answered, my inclination is to pay the ticket.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Since you asked, most radar units have a +/- 2mph accuracy while LIDAR units are +/- 1mph.

 

[athhud]

No one around here is using LIDAR. Anyone that gets busted by radar with a Valentine 1 is a moron. You don't ride the lead car's bumper... You let them stay far ahead. While your radar is only pegging the lead car I've reduced speed to below the limit. By the time you even know I exist, you're already behind the lead car. If you can see me, I can see you. If my detector can see your radar, that doesn't mean your radar can see me. It is obvious that you haven't spent much time using a quality detector....


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[ZombieMonkey]

That may be true if I am running it continually on, only a moron uses it like a fish finder. I make my visual estimate of speed and if you are something I'm interested I'll take it off hold for a brief second long enough to develop a good tracking history. Your done by then, you lose.

Clearly you haven't spent time behind a radar or LIDAR unit...

 

[bachelorjack]

Often I will do multi-car stops and if you don't pull over you can bet you will be the one I single out...

How do you do multi car stops? To be clear you mean little old you in your car is pulling over multiple cars at the same time?

If I'm understanding you correctly I am missing something.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

How do you do multi car stops? To be clear you mean little old you in your car is pulling over multiple cars at the same time?

If I'm understanding you correctly I am missing something.

Yes. I've done double DUI's this way, drag racers, and a number of other occurrences. Multiple ways to do this. Nightime is easiest, throw on lights and keep spotlighting the rear windows of the two vehicles you want stopped until they both pull over with a little use of the siren or air horn. I usually can create a traffic break before I light the two up and get both stopped this way very often. If not I go for the one who continues as often that will be my DUI driver.

Daytime can be harder as people don't always see, but I usually work the daytime spots with another unit and we will tag team it or flag them both over by hand depending on how big of a road it is.

You can do all sorts of shenanigans. Some of the local PDs here will use the publics works bucket trucks and have a guy running a LIDAR unit in the bucket getting people and calling them out for a pack of traffic officers to pick off one by one. Very effective way to bring down speeds in an area where they have gotten out of control.

 

[rgrmike]

"To me the tickets are not about the money, they are meant to serve as a tool to correct an unacceptable behavior. Education comes in all forms, sometimes a warning is all that is needed as a reminder to the driver. Sometimes a ticket may be more effective as it causes enough of a sting to hopefully correct the drivers behavior. If not maybe more tickets may help until the individual either gets the message or has their license suspended."[/QUOTE]

I don't have a problem with this attitude as long as it's applied to both sides which it isn't. My police friends break the speed limit more than anyone I know both in their duty vehicles and their POV's. It's cool though because they flash their badge and get the "professional courtesy" pass. I know this isn't the rule but in my experience its rampant and it's BS. Traffic ticketing is about revenue period. If it wasn't all the LEO agencies wouldn't be driving around in subdued or unmarked vehicles. I've lived in 6 states in the last decade and it's the same everywhere I go. I have a pretty clean driving record and always try to obey all traffic laws but speeding tickets are out of control. If it wasn't bad enough, we had to add cameras to the mix. Ridiculous.

Good luck on fighting your ticket but it's probably not going to be worth your time. You just paid some extra taxes this year that's all.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Eh, depends on where in the country you are. Some places are more good old boy system than others.

I do agree that photo radar is about nothing more than revenue generation. I don't care for it, the red light cameras are even pushing it for me. Those things are just as bad as checkpoints and speed traps in my mind. That stuff is not kosher in my book

 

[chefcam864]

The officer who wrote the ticket knows the laws I am sure


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That is an INCREDIBLY generous statement...

To the OP, fight it. He may be full $hit, have no radar, out of calibration etc. Police are not always the most honest bunch... Anyways, you have a right to fight it, you stand nothing to lose by doing so, and may actually beat it.

 

[Phil1]

Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't had a speeding ticket for over 20 years. Anyone who goes through all this BS to get out of a ticket deserves to get off and to get a real life.

How to Beat a Speeding Ticket (Or at Least Better Your Chances)

 

[pmclaine]

I don't have a problem with this attitude as long as it's applied to both sides which it isn't. My police friends break the speed limit more than anyone I know both in their duty vehicles and their POV's. It's cool though because they flash their badge and get the "professional courtesy" pass. I know this isn't the rule but in my experience its rampant and it's BS. Traffic ticketing is about revenue period. If it wasn't all the LEO agencies wouldn't be driving around in subdued or unmarked vehicles. I've lived in 6 states in the last decade and it's the same everywhere I go. I have a pretty clean driving record and always try to obey all traffic laws but speeding tickets are out of control. If it wasn't bad enough, we had to add cameras to the mix. Ridiculous.
l.

I agree with your indignation at this. There us a valid reason for exceeding the limit in a cruiser but that doesn't extend to PC.

 

[rgrmike]

I agree with your indignation at this. There us a valid reason for exceeding the limit in a cruiser but that doesn't extend to PC.

I just can't stand how traffic enforcement has become a pure revenue machine. We as a nation pay taxes out the yin yang and it's just one more BS tax. When I see a 80K+ unmarked cruiser my blood boils. Look at European police cars…big difference. Maybe if they didn't spend so much on the cars they wouldn't have to build so much revenue with traffic tickets. It's not a bash on the LEO's it's the system as a whole. I got a ticket in Wyoming for going 4mph over the limit…4mph…I had out of state tags and they new I wasn't coming back to fight it in court. That's called a racket.

 

[mattharper]

I guess the main thing would be to do some research and find out how many miles over the posted limit start impacting the points count on your license. Here, anything under 13 over won't affect your points count.
Not saying that this is what happened to you, but I run in to the discussion all the time about how fast one was going when they saw me. Someone made a good point about this earlier. If I'm actively looking for speeders, chances are I'll see them before they've seen me. Which will account for some variance in speeds because it's a natural reaction to let off the gas when you see a law enforcement vehicle. It's just a difference in reaction time that most people have that aren't constantly on the lookout for marked cars. That said, I fully support going to court if you feel strongly that he was wrong. I always give the same disclaimer before having someone sign a citation for this very reason. This, and I'm not one to stand on the side of the roadway and have an all out argument about who's right and who's wrong because I think it's extremely unprofessional. Most people have very few encounters with law enforcement in their lives and this type of thing can color ones perception for all of us.
As far as motivation is concerned, generally if my agency receives enough citizen complaints about speeders in an area, then they go set up a speed machine to get an average speed over a couple of days. If it's high enough, then we work it until it slows down. Not saying that there isn't speed enforcement going on in other places, but this is generally where it's most concentrated. This is just my agency though. Can't speak for everyone.
And as far as seeing radar and laser units to check the speed for your; my radar is vehicle mounted, so you'd have to sit in my driver's seat to see the display. I don't allow anyone to come back to my car that way as a general rule of safety. Nothing against anyone else, but everything that gives access to within arms reach, just doesn't make sense for me to take that risk. 9 times out of 10 I have no idea the type of person I'm stopping. Drivers here do have the right to ask for a calibration check with radar and we also have to notify them of that, but no legal right to actually see the device in person. But again, it's a safety thing for me. Not trying to be secretive. As I said earlier, I'm a proponent of going to court if you feel the need.
And lastly, thank you for acknowledging that the trooper was courteous and polite. Glad to hear the experience wasn't made worse by unprofessional behavior.

 

[Deadshot2]

I have a guaranteed, sure fire, never fail, method for beating speeding tickets.

Stay at or below the speed limit.

I smile when I see someone go flashing by me at 10 or more over the limit only to see them on the side of the road a few miles later with a cop writing a ticket.

Not only did they NOT save any time, they lost the 15 minutes or so the officer will take (sometimes more on purpose) to write the ticket. To cap it off, in our State up to 10 over is a $124 ticket with court fees added. Most cops will just write for the up to 10 over unless you were really booking or are an asshole when dealing with him.

If you do get a ticket, unless there was some egregious error that you can prove, just pay the ticket and be more careful. Judges have heard ALL the excuses and they don't work any better today then several decades ago when I was a kid.

 

[athhud]

That may be true if I am running it continually on, only a moron uses it like a fish finder. I make my visual estimate of speed and if you are something I'm interested I'll take it off hold for a brief second long enough to develop a good tracking history. Your done by then, you lose.

Clearly you haven't spent time behind a radar or LIDAR unit...

I haven't spent any time with LIDAR and neither has a single officer within 100 miles of me (very likely a much larger radius).

You don't have to "use it like a fish finder" for a detector to be effective. When you are "developing a tracking history" on the car ahead of me I am reducing speed. Again, by them time you even see me I am at legal speed. The more hidden you are, the better this strategy works. If you are waiting around a curve, behind a hill, behind a building or billboard, you don't stand a chance. Your only real hope is on long straight-aways. Even then an observant and cautious driver will win out.

Now if you really want to beat the detector, just haul ass and sneak up behind the drivers with radar off. That will get us every time, but then you are exceeding the limit too and that ain't safe




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[Jerrrrstanley]

ZombieMonkey is pretty much spot on. The only thing I don't 100% agree with is radar accuracy. Our car speedometers have to be within +/- 2mph of the speed indicated on the radar when we check it before and after every shift but the radar accuracy is much better than that. I don't carry my radar manual in my car so I can't review it now but I will tonight and if I have to ear crow I will.
I agree do agree with his statement about radar detectors. I don't see them much where I am at now but when I worked an interstate county I loved getting someone speeding with that valentine1 sitting on their dash. Lidar is the best get people with a radar/laser detector but still easy enough with a regular radar unit.
Athhud. It is a cat and mouse game and your technique will work as long as you have a bird dog and traffic is heavy but it still depends on the LEO to release his radar. Once he sees you and you are the first car he releases the radar on he has your speed before your detector can beep or you can hit the brake.
The reason detectors work so good against radar is it emits a WIDE cone of radar waves that bounce around everywhere (around curves and over hills). A Lidar is more of a pinpoint that is only a 3ft beam at 1000ft.

 

[Deadshot2]

Now if you really want to beat the detector, just haul ass and sneak up behind the drivers with radar off. That will get us every time, but then you are exceeding the limit too and that ain't safe




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I used to own a detector. Was the "in thing" back when the national limit was the "double nickel". Ran into a State Trooper with a mean sense of humor. He came up behind me and would turn the radar unit on then off. He then followed me for a few more miles and did it again. After 3-4 times of doing this he finally pulled me over. What made me feel like a fool was when he told me that he was having fun with me. Each time he turned the unit on (or took it off "hold" I guess) I hit my brakes.

In the end he did me a big favor. He wrote me for 10 over even though at times on that trip (probably not when he was following me) I was actually activating the speed limiter on my van (100 mph for Ford Aerostars at the time).

This was quite a few years ago and I've managed to get a little smarter in that time.

As a side note, I did watch my wife use tears to get out of a ticket. Driving through Wyoming she broke into tears when she got pulled over (I was napping) and after a short lecture the Trooper told her to have a nice day. I probably would have ended up in cuff's with my face on the patrol car's nice hot hood. Women!

 

[Deadshot2]

I do agree that photo radar is about nothing more than revenue generation. I don't care for it, the red light cameras are even pushing it for me. Those things are just as bad as checkpoints and speed traps in my mind. That stuff is not kosher in my book

Thing is though, only those who violate the speed or traffic laws pay. Those who aren't speeding or running red lights don't get tickets. A "camera" has no "opinion" or "bias". It just captures the offense. In my state the systems capture more than one picture and are all reviewed by "real" police officers before the citation is mailed.

I was exposed to them back in the 60's while stationed in Europe. All it took was for one person in the unit to get a ticket in the mail and the whole unit was a lot more careful about speeding from then on.

 

[EddieNFL]

An LE friend once told me there are no quotas. They can write as many tickets as they like.

 

[355sigfan]

That is an INCREDIBLY generous statement...

To the OP, fight it. He may be full $hit, have no radar, out of calibration etc. Police are not always the most honest bunch... Anyways, you have a right to fight it, you stand nothing to lose by doing so, and may actually beat it.

Highway patrol writes tickets all day long gets trained on how to use radars and are subject matter experts by the very nature of their job. They are not a jack of all trades LEO writing tickets for traffic violations mostly speeding is what they do so no its not a generous statement. But by all means fight it I am sure the Trooper will appreciate the over time. You do have something to lose by fighting it however when you know you are wrong your integrity. That means more to some people than others. As for your comment insulting my professions honesty you can shove that where the son don't shine. You are the one talking about going to court and fighting a ticket when he knew he was speeding. Your honesty is the one in question.
Pat

 

[shurt]

Slowing down vehicular speed (IMHO) is mostly about decreasing accidents. If the police slow a car down, close to the posted speed limit, the driver has a better chance to react to prevent an accident. No, it's not always the case but that is my goal when running radar. LE needs to concentrate on those high accident intersections or high accident areas to lower the speed of cars and lower the accident rate. In the large majority of accidents, excessive speed is a contributing factor to the accident. The main reason for the accident might be running a red light or stop sign but speeding is almost always part of the problem. Just sayin' I'm not into running radar on the open road or highway for no good reason. Again, run radar at those high accident areas to slow down traffic to lower the accidents.

I really don't have a problem with the dozens of posts on this thread. It's good communication between LE and Hide members.

 

[pmclaine]

I just can't stand how traffic enforcement has become a pure revenue machine. We as a nation pay taxes out the yin yang and it's just one more BS tax. When I see a 80K+ unmarked cruiser my blood boils. Look at European police cars…big difference. Maybe if they didn't spend so much on the cars they wouldn't have to build so much revenue with traffic tickets. It's not a bash on the LEO's it's the system as a whole. I got a ticket in Wyoming for going 4mph over the limit…4mph…I had out of state tags and they new I wasn't coming back to fight it in court. That's called a racket.

Locally maybe but statewise not so much.

That said I still agree with you that we are just the cow with chaffed udders, no handcream and the bag was close to empty 2 hours ago when you hit it.

Ive heard of a plan to add $5 surcharge per ticket to pay for Academy classes. They cant afford to make more cops. Where is the money going that is supposed to be going to Academy classes?

 

[Hink]

A radar detector - even a V1 - is a tool, only as good as the operator. Just like one of those universal remotes or a BFH, if you don't know how to work it, there's no point in having it.

If speed limits were set by the recommendations of professional traffic engineers (at the 85th percentile) then safety would be a reasonable argument for slowing down. However, just as the 'Double Nickel' was already mentioned, Texas state road speed limits were raised fairly recently to 75 from 70 in the day, and 65 at night, unless you're a big truck when it's 60, or if you're a school bus when it's 55...bacause having everybody drive the same speed would be silly. There's definitely a political aspect to speed limits, and revenue generation absolutely plays a part. LEO enforce the existing laws, but they're not stupid, either. If I'm running 85 down a state road between towns in the early afternoon and there's three cars visible from my position to the horizon, there's a good chance I'm not getting looked at by anybody, even LEO.

In any case, if you speed where there are people, there is a good chance you'll find LEO. Try not to stick out.

And, by Texas law, speed limits do not apply to LEO patrol vehicles. And it's against the law to kick in the clutch while going downhill. No clue how to enforce that one.

 

[Tristian19]

So I'm going ~77 in a 70, and a state trooper passes me going in the opposite direction (which is why I looked down at my exact speed). I look in the mirror, see him practically lock up his brakes. I keep going without giving it too much thought, my speed now at a nice 65. Next thing I know he's doing nearly triple digits to catch up with me, tailgates me until there is a shoulder, lights me up, and gives me a ticket for 80 in a 70.

So that's a $200 ticket. The ticket alleges that I was doing greater than 10% over (which would be over 77). Should I go to court? I did not tell the officer an exact speed I was going, he told me I was going too fast, and gave me the citation with no affidavit. The officer was extremely courteous and professional, but I was not doing >10% as the citation alleges, nor do I see how he could have pegged my speed coming 70 mph at the opposite direction.

I have to admit I ONLY read the original question and no follow ups.

First, what is the documented speed trooper had you clocked at? Just saying your were going too fast is NOT scientific and does not work, at least in NY.
Second, does the officer have a certificate stating HE/SHE has successfully passed course to operate scientific device? If no, in NYS you automatically WIN.
Third, what is date of the last documented calibration of device device and does officer have documentation with them? A scientific device needs to be calibrated every so often per manufactures specifications. Just because it was calibrated once does not mean it will STAY calibrated forever.

Personally, I would go to court based on opening thread contents.

Once again, I have not read any further.

Just my two cents...

Hey ChrisBCS, just realized it was you. If anyone knows about calibration and scientific devices YOU do!!!

 

[rgrmike]

Thing is though, only those who violate the speed or traffic laws pay. Those who aren't speeding or running red lights don't get tickets. A "camera" has no "opinion" or "bias". It just captures the offense. In my state the systems capture more than one picture and are all reviewed by "real" police officers before the citation is mailed.

I was exposed to them back in the 60's while stationed in Europe. All it took was for one person in the unit to get a ticket in the mail and the whole unit was a lot more careful about speeding from then on.

That's all fine and good but what if it's not you driving? My wife got one in my truck once while I was overseas….so now I have to turn my wife in for a traffic violation…She didn't stop long enough before turning right on red…give me a break. Go fight some real crime.

 

[355sigfan]

That's all fine and good but what if it's not you driving? My wife got one in my truck once while I was overseas….so now I have to turn my wife in for a traffic violation…She didn't stop long enough before turning right on red…give me a break. Go fight some real crime.

Speeding does kill people seen enough accidents in my 15 years to know that one. So please spare us the go fight some real crime and leave my dumb ass alone statement.
Pat

 

[rgrmike]

Slowing down vehicular speed (IMHO) is mostly about decreasing accidents. If the police slow a car down, close to the posted speed limit, the driver has a better chance to react to prevent an accident. No, it's not always the case but that is my goal when running radar. LE needs to concentrate on those high accident intersections or high accident areas to lower the speed of cars and lower the accident rate. In the large majority of accidents, excessive speed is a contributing factor to the accident. The main reason for the accident might be running a red light or stop sign but speeding is almost always part of the problem. Just sayin' I'm not into running radar on the open road or highway for no good reason. Again, run radar at those high accident areas to slow down traffic to lower the accidents.

I really don't have a problem with the dozens of posts on this thread. It's good communication between LE and Hide members.

I'm going to throw out something I heard and currently don't have anything to back it up so take it with a grain of salt. Countries that have tougher driving standards (actually enforcing the left lane as a passing lane etc) such as Germany have roads with higher speeds and less accidents. Moral of the story, reduction in speeds doesn't necessarily translate to less accidents. The USA as a nation just sucks at driving.

 

[rgrmike]

Speeding does kill people seen enough accidents in my 15 years to know that one. So please spare us the go fight some real crime and leave my dumb ass alone statement.
Pat

Dumb ass alone statement?

 

[rgrmike]

Dumb ass alone statement?

Oh gotcha…the holier than thou mentality. Pretty standard. Gotcha.

 

[355sigfan]

Dumb ass alone statement?

People tend to minimize what they consider acceptable crimes such as speeding because they see no harm in it. They don't see the 4 year old kid that is killed because daddy decided it was safe to go 100 mph down the highway when his front tire blew killing the whole family. Laws are there for a reason and all crime is real crime. Slow down the life you save may be your own.
Pat

 

[rgrmike]

People tend to minimize what they consider acceptable crimes such as speeding because they see no harm in it. They don't see the 4 year old kid that is killed because daddy decided it was safe to go 100 mph down the highway when his front tire blew killing the whole family. Laws are there for a reason and all crime is real crime. Slow down the life you save may be your own.
Pat

Pat,
I never minimized speeding. I said my wife got a camera ticket in my truck while I was overseas and I got sent the bill. She didn't stop long enough before turning right at a red light. I do appreciate you calling me a dumbass though. Very classy.

 

[rpk762]

Fight it. Always fight it. That software that is supposed to give the correct speed does not always work. Sure you admit to speeding but getting a charge fore more than you were doing is out of line.

 

[shurt]

I'm going to throw out something I heard and currently don't have anything to back it up so take it with a grain of salt. Countries that have tougher driving standards (actually enforcing the left lane as a passing lane etc) such as Germany have roads with higher speeds and less accidents. Moral of the story, reduction in speeds doesn't necessarily translate to less accidents. The USA as a nation just sucks at driving.

USA might drive at sucking but we have statistical proof that slowing down traffic cuts down on accidents. We do traffic studies all the time in our city to show it works. Identify the high accident intersections, increase traffic enforcement for 30 days, rerun the accident stats. Doesn't work all the time but it does work.

 

[Alamo]

Get a lawyer. Fight it. Lawyers rock. Don't let these guys fill your head up with a bunch of crap about honor and integrity. The game is rigged. If there was honor and integrity at play they wouldn't hide behind bushes, use unmarked cars, operate speed traps and ambush people behind back to back 65 and 35mph signs. Their goal for the game is to get money for the state. That's what they're paid to do. Your goal in the game is to keep your money while the state invents more reasons to take it every day. The way you win the game is hold on to as much of it as possible. Lawyer up, and let him know you'll use him again in the future. You'll save money in the long run. Also, get a radar detector. Best 300-500$ you'll ever spend.

Punishing someone for speeding is punishing someone for potentially committing a crime when 99% of the time, none was.

It's an act perpetrated under the guise of "safety" whose sole purpose is revenue generation...though the individuals doing the perpetrating often lie to themselves and to others claiming lofty and noble justifications for their behavior is that it lines the coffers of the state. Quotas exist. Money makes the world go round.

Good luck.

 

[athhud]

ZombieMonkey is pretty much spot on. The only thing I don't 100% agree with is radar accuracy. Our car speedometers have to be within +/- 2mph of the speed indicated on the radar when we check it before and after every shift but the radar accuracy is much better than that. I don't carry my radar manual in my car so I can't review it now but I will tonight and if I have to ear crow I will.
I agree do agree with his statement about radar detectors. I don't see them much where I am at now but when I worked an interstate county I loved getting someone speeding with that valentine1 sitting on their dash. Lidar is the best get people with a radar/laser detector but still easy enough with a regular radar unit.
Athhud. It is a cat and mouse game and your technique will work as long as you have a bird dog and traffic is heavy but it still depends on the LEO to release his radar. Once he sees you and you are the first car he releases the radar on he has your speed before your detector can beep or you can hit the brake.
The reason detectors work so good against radar is it emits a WIDE cone of radar waves that bounce around everywhere (around curves and over hills). A Lidar is more of a pinpoint that is only a 3ft beam at 1000ft.

When LIDAR becomes more prevalent in my neck of the woods, my V1 will be for sale. I'm a cheap bastard. When it stops saving me money it will be gone for whatever I can get for it. As for now, when the Laser Tone sounds on my V1 that just means there is a car with adaptive cruise control nearby....

As for my strategy, if I don't have a decoy I don't speed. I never depend on the V1 by itself. That's how you get a smug bastard grinning by your window


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[355sigfan]

10mph over?? usually they won't bother <10MPH over unless you are driving in a disruptive, reckless or dangerous manner.. US should take a lesson from Germany however there are some really stupid drivers here.

Which part like no drivers license until your 18 and very strict drivers tests. Sure then I am all for it.
Pat

 

[355sigfan]

Pat,
I never minimized speeding. I said my wife got a camera ticket in my truck while I was overseas and I got sent the bill. She didn't stop long enough before turning right at a red light. I do appreciate you calling me a dumbass though. Very classy.

I did not call you a dumb ass rather I expressed the attitude that is so prevalent today. Which is don't bother me when I screw up that guy over there is doing something worse. It's like a kid saying well Johnny does worse stuff than me. Did you let the cops know to ticket your wife instead ?


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[355sigfan]

Get a lawyer. Fight it. Lawyers rock. Don't let these guys fill your head up with a bunch of crap about honor and integrity. The game is rigged. If there was honor and integrity at play they wouldn't hide behind bushes, use unmarked cars, operate speed traps and ambush people behind back to back 65 and 35mph signs. Their goal for the game is to get money for the state. That's what they're paid to do. Your goal in the game is to keep your money while the state invents more reasons to take it every day. The way you win the game is hold on to as much of it as possible. Lawyer up, and let him know you'll use him again in the future. You'll save money in the long run. Also, get a radar detector. Best 300-500$ you'll ever spend.

Punishing someone for speeding is punishing someone for potentially committing a crime when 99% of the time, none was.

It's an act perpetrated under the guise of "safety" whose sole purpose is revenue generation...though the individuals doing the perpetrating often lie to themselves and to others claiming lofty and noble justifications for their behavior is that it lines the coffers of the state. Quotas exist. Money makes the world go round.

Good luck.

Sure get an attorney and spend 200 an hour for a 100 dollar citation. Then even if you win you are out more cash than the ticket would have been. Lol


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[wildcats]

OK,so your were going 77 in a 70 speed limt.
I call it bullshit in the state troopers part.their is know way in hell he can eye ball you going 7mph over the speed limit going in the opposite direction.
Did he even show you a radar gun showing how fast you were going?

Go to court.

 

[355sigfan]

OK,so your were going 77 in a 70 speed limt.
I call it bullshit in the state troopers part.their is know way in hell he can eye ball you going 7mph over the speed limit going in the opposite direction.
Did he even show you a radar gun showing how fast you were going?

Go to court.

Bullshit yourself because to get certified we have to get 10 cars in a row correct in our visual estimates with in 5 mph from stationary, and moving modes.
Pat

 

[Victory]

That's all fine and good but what if it's not you driving? My wife got one in my truck once while I was overseas….so now I have to turn my wife in for a traffic violation…She didn't stop long enough before turning right on red…give me a break. Go fight some real crime.

As soon as they stop enforcing traffic, the public will chime up about how officers aren't doing their job. They will call in complaining about cars speeding on the highway, at their work, or in their neighborhood. It's a catch-22, one side will always complain.

 

[Alamo]

Sure get an attorney and spend 200 an hour for a 100 dollar citation. Then even if you win you are out more cash than the ticket would have been. Lol

So you're not a details guy huh?


Note 3 things sir: I said in the long run for the very thing you speak of, note that although at times its not economically preferable to lawyer up it may be preferable for other reasons (insurance, principle) and note also that even if it is not economically preferable some would rather the money go to a weasel who's honest about being one.

At least if the money goes to the lawyer you're paving the way for future favors/discounts while simultaneously not opening your wallet to the very apparatus whose sole purpose is designing new ways of forcing its way into your wallet.

 

[Alamo]

As soon as they stop enforcing traffic, the public will chime up about how officers aren't doing their job. They will call in complaining about cars speeding on the highway, at their work, or in their neighborhood. It's a catch-22, one side will always complain.

I hear ya, but it doesn't have to be. At some point we are going to have to quit greasing squeaky wheels just because they're squeaking. Not all squeaking is equal. Just sayin'

This idea that we have to do something for everyone who complains hasn't worked out too well.....at some point we have to return to having the balls to say "tough titty sir." The more we cater to people's incessant bitching and need for nannying the more nannying we'll have.....

 

[ZombieMonkey]

OK,so your were going 77 in a 70 speed limt.
I call it bullshit in the state troopers part.their is know way in hell he can eye ball you going 7mph over the speed limit going in the opposite direction.
Did he even show you a radar gun showing how fast you were going?

Go to court.

As has already been pointed out, we have to become certified at visual estimations of speed both moving and stationary in addition to being certified on the radar unit in most places. Where I am, we do 40 estimates for certification here and your speeds have to be +/- 5mph or you don't write the ticket as that's the only way with radar you can confirm that speed belongs to that vehicle when other vehicles may also be potentially picked up. Very rarely am I off by much with my speeds. Hell, I can pretty much tell you what speed a vehicle is traveling based just on the pitch/tone of the radar unit without even looking at the readout or seeing the vehicle.

And once again, generally you do not lock speeds so there is nothing to show you.

 

[355sigfan]

So you're not a details guy huh?


Note 3 things sir: I said in the long run for the very thing you speak of, note that although at times its not economically preferable to lawyer up it may be preferable for other reasons (insurance, principle) and note also that even if it is not economically preferable some would rather the money go to a weasel who's honest about being one.

At least if the money goes to the lawyer you're paving the way for future favors/discounts while simultaneously not opening your wallet to the very apparatus whose sole purpose is designing new ways of forcing its way into your wallet.

The best way to save money in the long run is to not speed in the first place.


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[ZombieMonkey]

^And it might not be the only thing you save either...

 

[Alamo]

The best way to save money in the long run is to not speed in the first place.

So true...but its not really what we're talking about and it's also a naive solution to the problem.....The states job is to fund itself...the agents of the state are the runners for the system...the men and women who actually get out and get the money. They will not let you "opt" out. If everyone quit speeding tomorrow minimum speed enforcement would sky rocket the following day. Then you'd be telling people that the best way to save their money is travel in the designated +-5mph of the stated speed and people would be talking about how noble it is to punish people travelling slower than the speed limit. The state will not let you win. The game is rigged.

What we're talking about is minimizing exposure post contact not the best way to not get contacted. Giving money to a lawyer post contact is a good choice because you're not funding the machine. There's no pretense, they represent you in a crooked for profit system but they're the only one's in the system you can trust. If you give your money to the state they'll use the money to train/hire more men/women to more effectively get your money the next time you inevitably come into contact with an agent of the state. That's not a wise investment any way you look at it.

So again, once you have come into contact, lawyer up. Know the rules of the game...keep as much of your money as possible, and if you do have to spend some....make sure that as little as possible goes to guaranteeing you're more efficiently raked over the coals in the future.

 

[rgrmike]

I did not call you a dumb ass rather I expressed the attitude that is so prevalent today. Which is don't bother me when I screw up that guy over there is doing something worse. It's like a kid saying well Johnny does worse stuff than me. Did you let the cops know to ticket your wife instead ?


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I called the local police station that issued the citation and tried to get in touch with the officer who was the signing official of the citation. I left multiple messages and never received a call back. I never got ahold of the officer. I also wrote a letter to the court and didn't hear anything back from them either. I didn't pay the citation and I would never turn in a family member over a camera traffic ticket. Traffic cameras are coming down all across the nation and for good reason in my opinion.

 

[rgrmike]

So true...but its not really what we're talking about and it's also a naive solution to the problem.....The states job is to fund itself...the agents of the state are the runners for the system...the men and women who actually get out and get the money. They will not let you "opt" out. If everyone quit speeding tomorrow minimum speed enforcement would sky rocket the following day. Then you'd be telling people that the best way to save their money is travel in the designated +-5mph of the stated speed and people would be talking about how noble it is to punish people travelling slower than the speed limit. The state will not let you win. The game is rigged.

What we're talking about is minimizing exposure post contact not the best way to not get contacted. Giving money to a lawyer post contact is a good choice because you're not funding the machine. There's no pretense, they represent you in a crooked for profit system but they're the only one's in the system you can trust. If you give your money to the state they'll use the money to train/hire more men/women to more effectively get your money the next time you inevitably come into contact with an agent of the state. That's not a wise investment any way you look at it.

So again, once you have come into contact, lawyer up. Know the rules of the game...keep as much of your money as possible, and if you do have to spend some....make sure that as little as possible goes to guaranteeing you're more efficiently raked over the coals in the future.

Well said. Good post.

 

[Tristian19]

No one around here is using LIDAR. Anyone that gets busted by radar with a Valentine 1 is a moron. You don't ride the lead car's bumper... You let them stay far ahead. While your radar is only pegging the lead car I've reduced speed to below the limit. By the time you even know I exist, you're already behind the lead car. If you can see me, I can see you. If my detector can see your radar, that doesn't mean your radar can see me. It is obvious that you haven't spent much time using a quality detector....


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Following is based off NY area. Do not know elsewhere.

I hear what you are saying but that does not always work around my area. Not sure what LEO devices are used around your way but Lasers do not work like that. Lasers are deliberately aimed at YOUR vehicle license plate so laser gives up YOUR speed and not a speed which LEO must then determine who it belongs to.

Once your radar informs you of LEO's laser detector your already GOT. Laser takes less than one second to register your vehicle speed.

Not sure around your way but up here INSURANCE agencies supply LEO's with detectors. They are NOT purchased by LE.

Not that following means anything but I owned various radar detectors when in my twenty's and still managed to get a few tickets here and there. Beat all but one. Once I gave up on running radar I have yet to get a ticket. Been over 15 years since.

Safe driving...

Just my two cents.

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