Speeding ticket question.

[Tristian19]

That may be true if I am running it continually on, only a moron uses it like a fish finder. I make my visual estimate of speed and if you are something I'm interested I'll take it off hold for a brief second long enough to develop a good tracking history. Your done by then, you lose.

Clearly you haven't spent time behind a radar or LIDAR unit...

If you do not mind me asking
1. Is it required you be certified to use said device in your courts?
2. How often is your device to be calibrated for accuracy?

Most of my family is in LE in one capacity or another. Only friends from many years ago were in Highway but have since retired and moved out of NY. That is where I learned how to fight radar. NYPD LEO's who run radar are already prepared with documentation so beating ticket is not as easy as it once was. They come prepared based on my first post within this thread.

Be safe out there...

sent via Tapatalk

 

[355sigfan]

So true...but its not really what we're talking about and it's also a naive solution to the problem.....The states job is to fund itself...the agents of the state are the runners for the system...the men and women who actually get out and get the money. They will not let you "opt" out. If everyone quit speeding tomorrow minimum speed enforcement would sky rocket the following day. Then you'd be telling people that the best way to save their money is travel in the designated +-5mph of the stated speed and people would be talking about how noble it is to punish people travelling slower than the speed limit. The state will not let you win. The game is rigged.

What we're talking about is minimizing exposure post contact not the best way to not get contacted. Giving money to a lawyer post contact is a good choice because you're not funding the machine. There's no pretense, they represent you in a crooked for profit system but they're the only one's in the system you can trust. If you give your money to the state they'll use the money to train/hire more men/women to more effectively get your money the next time you inevitably come into contact with an agent of the state. That's not a wise investment any way you look at it.

So again, once you have come into contact, lawyer up. Know the rules of the game...keep as much of your money as possible, and if you do have to spend some....make sure that as little as possible goes to guaranteeing you're more efficiently raked over the coals in the future.

Ah the tin foil is strong with with this one.
Pat



Its not a game its about obeying the law and ensuring public safety on the roads.
The states job is to provide public safety, roads to drive on, enforce contracts etc. Without law their can be no freedom.

 

[EddieNFL]

Sure get an attorney and spend 200 an hour for a 100 dollar citation.

You've never cited in Florida.

 

[355sigfan]

I called the local police station that issued the citation and tried to get in touch with the officer who was the signing official of the citation. I left multiple messages and never received a call back. I never got ahold of the officer. I also wrote a letter to the court and didn't hear anything back from them either. I didn't pay the citation and I would never turn in a family member over a camera traffic ticket. Traffic cameras are coming down all across the nation and for good reason in my opinion.

Their coming down because people don't like getting caught. Sorry you can't really bitch if your not willing to make the situation right. Meaning your wife earned the ticket let her have it.

 

[EddieNFL]

Its not a game its about obeying the law and ensuring public safety on the roads.

That may very well be your attitude, but I (personally) know LE that make it a game. Whoever writes the biggest citation, most MPH over, stops a lawyer, etc. Guys will let a driver get away with 12-15 MPH over because the next guy may be 20 over.

 

[355sigfan]

That may very well be your attitude, but I (personally) know LE that make it a game. Whoever writes the biggest citation, most MPH over, stops a lawyer, etc. Guys will let a driver get away with 12-15 MPH over because the next guy may be 20 over.

Well even if that were true if you did not speed you would not have anything to worry about.
pat

 

[EddieNFL]

Well even if that were true if you did not speed you would not have anything to worry about.

I know this is the internet and folks can make claim they like and you know me as well as I know you. For instance, I could list all kinds of training in my sigline, legit or not

Since I don't exceed the arbitrarily posted limits by more than 10MPH, never in school zones, residential areas, etc., I have nothing to worry about...as long as I stay out of Alaska.

 

[rgrmike]

Their coming down because people don't like getting caught. Sorry you can't really bitch if your not willing to make the situation right. Meaning your wife earned the ticket let her have it.

Dude…they're coming down because they're BS. These are mechanical devices that are SOLD to towns, cities, counties etc with a GUARANTEE to build revenue. Whenever these camera's are questioned and are threatened with removal the first things departments do is utilize scare tactics on the citizens…."We'll have to lay off X amount of officers which will make the streets less safe etc" It's like when a school levee doesn't pass…what's the first thing that goes…bus service. These devices are a back door tax period.

I hear the safety argument. Here's the deal. Having liberty is inherently dangerous. In fact, we do things everyday that are dangerous. This is a shooting forum for crying out loud. Firearms can be dangerous. I don't want the man looking over my back with regards to everything I do.

Oh and about making the situation right…how far do I have to go? I called the detective multiple times, left him messages and wrote a letter to the court. No response…you know why?…Because all they care about is getting that check in the mail. This is a perfect situation that the camera was WRONG. How in the hell am I getting a camera traffic ticket when I'm not even in the country? You're probably right though…I probably should turn into a total b*tch and rat on my wife. You're kidding yourself if you think it's about public safety, it's about the mighty dollar.

 

[rgrmike]

Objections To Red Light Cameras | NMA

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

Tristian19. We had to go through a 40 hour class for RADAR and the same for LIDAR. We recert every year on both. The RADAR is tested everyday before and after shift with tuning forks and our speedometer in the car is tested before and after every shift against the RADAR readout at various speeds. The tuning forks are tested every 6 months for accuracy and the car speedometer is tested every 6 months. Each of these are documented properly and notarized and then sent to the applicable courts.
Visual estimation of speed is the key to radar and lidar enforcement. As a well seasoned Circuit Court Judge once said, "The RADAR only confirms what the Officer already knows. Your speed." I assure all of you any LEO that runs RADAR routinely, and worth his salt, can be withing 2 mph on his visual estimation and be able to tell you the speed just by the tone of the RADAR. Also, I bet that the number of cars I give warnings to or don't even bother stopping because of .01% doubt would boggle your mind.
And for all of yall that say its a game and a big revenue generator I have a quote for you. "56 is speeding. 54, impeding." HAHAHA (well, the LEO's will think its funny at least)

 

[CheStadium]

To the Op: I would show up in court. In most places I've been, they announce "Everyone who has a speeding ticket who is willing to plead guilty to a reduced charge line up in front of the podium now." It's that simple. If you were courteous to the cop, he will not object and you will be on your way.

 

[LRI]

This worked once for me a long time ago.

pay the ticket. Use a check and write it for $50 over the ammount. You'll be issued a refund.

never cash it. It prevents the system from closing out the case. Just stays in Lal la land.
Insurance/driving record never gets updated. Maybe stuffs changed in our new modern world. I did this about 20 years ago.

other issues. ALL devices have a range of accuracy. CNC machines are .00001" 's. Radar is no different and neither is your speedometer.

say your speedo is off by 1%. Say the radar is also off by 1%.

Do the math. Research the error range for each device and calculate the possible speeds. Then get your speedometer calibrated.


Beyond a reasonable doubt is on your side. It's all in the presentation.


Just cause your guilty and you know you were speed doesn't mean you give up and take it in the ass.

good luck.

 

[Deadshot2]

These are mechanical devices that are SOLD to towns, cities, counties etc with a GUARANTEE to build revenue.

Not where I live. The company in Scottsdale puts them up and works on a "commission". All tickets have to be reviewed by a sworn officer before mailed.

Yes, some come down but either in towns where the citizens have voted them out or where the speeding/red light violations have dropped to the point they provide no more revenue. Mostly they are moved to other locations where people haven't got the message yet and the revenue stream builds again.

My Son got a "red light cam ticket". It came with two or three pictures of his violation. Was so obvious that he had run the light he just shut up and sent the check.

 

[Tristian19]

This worked once for me a long time ago.

pay the ticket. Use a check and write it for $50 over the ammount. You'll be issued a refund.

never cash it. It prevents the system from closing out the case. Just stays in Lal la land.
good luck.

That used to work in NY but not any longer. Hopefully still works elsewhere.

Now they send you incorrect sum check back and request check in exact amount of fine.

 

[Deadshot2]

This worked once for me a long time ago.

pay the ticket. Use a check and write it for $50 over the ammount. You'll be issued a refund.

never cash it. It prevents the system from closing out the case. Just stays in Lal la land.

Not around here. If you look at any checks issued by our local government agencies there is the caveat "Void after 90 Days". Don't cash it, they just close the file and put it away. The "unclaimed" money is then sent to the State where it sits until someone finds it years later and claims it.


Also, our State has an old "Speed Trap Law" that requires a far greater level of accuracy on "timing devices" used for speed measurement. Goes back to the days when stopwatches were used to measure time in a "trap" and then calculate speed, long before radar. In order to either halt the practice or make sure that speeds were accurate the State passed a law requiring accuracy well below the "1%" mark. When our State started using aircraft and two stopwatches, the troopers still had to "pace" the vehicle before issuing the ticket.

Today it's all Lidar or Radar here, with the "Bear in the Air" using a new gizmo that uses FLIR for night time and GPS for speed measurements. All tracking and speed measurement is recorded so there's plenty of evidence for those that want to pay a couple thou for an attorney to fight the $124 ticket in court.

 

[LRI]

Noted.


interesting how LE spends millions of tax dollars to generate income in the form of fines.

A guy blasting a school zone at 100 mph deserves a good waterboarding. However i personally think this shit goes way too far in most instances.


good luck op.

c.

 

[fdkay]

In Texas, some of the larger cities are using red light camera's, many are doing away with them.
In the transportation code, they state basically "an assumption is made that the registered owner is operating the vehicle" or words to that effect.
1. You COULD go to court with a copy of your orders and prove that you weren't in the country.
2. There is no need to say who was driving the vehicle, as the citation is the charging instrument, charging YOU with an infraction that you can prove is impossible.
3. Depending on where you were cited, the infraction may be considered a "civil" infraction, OR it could be written straight up as a transportation code violation and treated as a misdemeanor criminal violation. You may have a misdemeanor warrant out for your arrest.

Please, without delay, go to the court, verify that you don't have a warrant, take a copy of your orders and prove to the magistrate that you have an alibi that proves you were incapable of committing the offense.
It would really suck to be out with the family, get run for any reason, then find yourself in handcuffs and taken to jail.

 

[fdkay]

Noted.


interesting how LE spends millions of tax dollars to generate income in the form of fines.

A guy blasting a school zone at 100 mph deserves a good waterboarding. However i personally think this shit goes way too far in most instances.


good luck op.

c.

Why do you make the statement that LE does these things?
Maybe you need a bit of a civics lesson.
Police Officers don't write laws or traffic code.
They do not decide to purchase, install or otherwise operate equipment such as red light cameras.
Those things are done by state admin or city councils/management.
Yes, absolutely, they are revenue generating devices.
Do you know who pushes cops to write more tickets?
Your elected officials. Believe me, they bring that shit up at city council meetings or city manager meetings with the chief ALL of the time.

 

[LawnMM]

He can estimate your speed visually and the equipment can do it digitally. Its been calibrated and you won't win "fighting" it. Be polite and ask the prosecutor to let you plead to a lesser offense for the sake of your insurance. Your speeding history will be a factor and they will check it.

 

[tiNdvenTFHwMdqKW]

My Escort 9500 with the Live network app in my smart phone has paid for itself.

https://www.escortradar.com/escort-live/

I did get one ticket from LIDAR last year and it was when I didn't have the Live app running on my phone. Otherwise, the crowd sourced intelligence is the way to go.

In busy metropolitan areas you can actually tell when a cop is cruising/stalking traffic by all the alerts going off. It can be annoying but it is generally pretty accurate. This is the wave of the future, the more people using these sort of apps the better.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

If you do not mind me asking
1. Is it required you be certified to use said device in your courts?
2. How often is your device to be calibrated for accuracy?

sent via Tapatalk

1. Yes, you must be certified in our courts and you always have to admit a copy of your certificate into evidence in our court as well as documents from the units last certification.
2. Confirm calibration at beginning and end of shift. Our specific units calibration is confirmed via an outside vendor at least once every year and they are all kept on file.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

This worked once for me a long time ago.

Beyond a reasonable doubt is on your side. It's all in the presentation.

Sure, in a criminal case. However, the nature of most speeding tickets including the one issued to the OP is that they are civil cases. The burden of proof is much lower as the state must only prove a preponderance of the evidence.

 

[LOCOBEAR]

I find disrupting the flow of traffic is much more dangerous than going 10 mph over the limit and drivers driving in the left on the highway deserve a citation much more than the one passing them on the right going 10 mph past the limit. I drive my kids to school and see more drivers doing +20 over the limit in a school zone in one day than I see drivers doing +20 mph over the limit on the highway in a month. If we all think logically maybe we can all get along much better.....Also please to all LEOs, think school zones on your next shift.....I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Wahoo95]

I drive a lot and have gotten a couple tickets over the past 15 years and in each case it was because I wasn't paying attention like most sheeple do. In each case I have always just gotten a local attorney to have the charged reduced to improper equipment. Cost $75-150 more however it saves you thousands in increased insurance premiums.

As for radar detectors.......as someone mentioned earlier they are simply a tool so they're only as useful as the operator. Ive lost count of the tickets mine has saved me over the years with proper usage. I see people all the time who say they had one and all it led to was more tickets and I tell them it was their fault and not the detector. In almost every case they thought having it allowed them to just speed with deck lass abandon when it doesn't.

In this area LE utilizes Radar, Lidar, and Vascar to, monitor speed. I only speed when I have a good lead car/s well out front and when I have decent visual range which is important in areas where Lidar is in heavy usage. Defense against electronic speed detection requires one to pay strict attention while driving and also have some understanding of how speed enforcement is conducted. No different than a hunter needs to understand his prey except when it comes to speed enforcement drivers are the prey so they need to understand how the hunters work.
Over the years I've come to learn that in different areas the method of usage may differ. State Police here in NC like to operate Lidar using the overpasses and chase cars on stretches with plenty of visual range so they can take advantage of its range. This is good because just like they can see me I can also see them and they're typically easy to spot before you're in range IF you know what to look for and even give two shits to pay attention. When I lived in Maryland the State Police liked to operate from the side of the road over hills or around corners. In those cases paying attention to your lead cars goes a long way saving your driving record. Around town I see heavy usage of Lidar by motorcycle cops however they're easy to spot IF you're paying attention because they don't typically take any measures to conceal their location since most sheeple don't care enough to pay attention anyways. Now Vascar......well that's a little more difficult since there is no electronic signature and officers like to operate it from On Ramps which puts them out of your visual. Luckily here in NC the DOT was nice enough to paint timing lines on the highways in areas where its used heavily. Since most sheeple are clueless to what the lines are even there for their lack of attention and ignorance often costs their driving record.

 

[wildcats]

The best way to save money in the long run is to not speed in the first place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bottom line here is,if you are to write a poor guy a ticket who has a clean prior record ,instead of lettting him off with a warning,(like please sir slow down ,your record shows no prior speeding violations) to make quotta,you need to re-evaluate your compassion and fairness for people.
7mph is questinable regardless of what anyone here says.regardless of your training,equipment blah,blah,blah.

Just my 2 cents,is all. no disrespect intended.

 

[LRI]

Why do you make the statement that LE does these things?
Maybe you need a bit of a civics lesson.
Police Officers don't write laws or traffic code.
They do not decide to purchase, install or otherwise operate equipment such as red light cameras.
Those things are done by state admin or city councils/management.
Yes, absolutely, they are revenue generating devices.
Do you know who pushes cops to write more tickets?
Your elected officials. Believe me, they bring that shit up at city council meetings or city manager meetings with the chief ALL of the time.

K. Fair enough. However having relationships with folks in the LE community presents me with a perception that these devices are rarely (never) turned down either. The cops I know are all gear queens. If city counceling are bringing it up all the time perhaps El Heffe' would take a moment and represent his fellow citizens and neighbors and bluntly remind these elected officials that law enforcement is a function of serving the community. Not a cash cow. Then go one step further and remind these elected officials that they too serve the public and finding every excuse possible to cram aguys cinnamon ring with traffic violations is a great way to get run out of town or -charged for misuse of taxpayer dollars.

your own words tends to suggest this. That's shameful. I'd wager that money for the latest/greatest traffic camera could be used towards paving a street so our vehicles don't rattle like marbles in a can after 50k miles.

I am but one voice but it's a voice and there are others who share the same view. Our governments more and more seem to exist for the purpose of screwing folks out of their dollars. It's a shit way of doing business. Sure we can all be good little minions and keep our heads down and mouths shut. -just like the East Germans had to.

Ultimately the guy on the street determines when/where a citation is issued. Like I said. 100 mph at 3 in the afternoon through a school zone. You bet. Peel that guy like an onion. 5,7,10 over on a 2 or 4 lane road with casual traffic. That's an asshole cop on a power trip. Especially when they then use it as an excuse to rummage through a car at will while ignoring constitutional rights. After being told that I do not consent to searches. I've had this happen and not a damn thing was done about it.

 

[fdkay]

K. Fair enough. However having relationships with folks in the LE community presents me with a perception that these devices are rarely (never) turned down either. The cops I know are all gear queens. If city counceling are bringing it up all the time perhaps El Heffe' would take a moment and represent his fellow citizens and neighbors and bluntly remind these elected officials that law enforcement is a function of serving the community. Not a cash cow. Then go one step further and remind these elected officials that they too serve the public and finding every excuse possible to cram aguys cinnamon ring with traffic violations is a great way to get run out of town or -charged for misuse of taxpayer dollars.

your own words tends to suggest this. That's shameful. I'd wager that money for the latest/greatest traffic camera could be used towards paving a street so our vehicles don't rattle like marbles in a can after 50k miles.

I am but one voice but it's a voice and there are others who share the same view. Our governments more and more seem to exist for the purpose of screwing folks out of their dollars. It's a shit way of doing business. Sure we can all be good little minions and keep our heads down and mouths shut. -just like the East Germans had to.

Ultimately the guy on the street determines when/where a citation is issued. Like I said. 100 mph at 3 in the afternoon through a school zone. You bet. Peel that guy like an onion. 5,7,10 over on a 2 or 4 lane road with casual traffic. That's an asshole cop on a power trip. Especially when they then use it as an excuse to rummage through a car at will while ignoring constitutional rights. After being told that I do not consent to searches. I've had this happen and not a damn thing was done about it.

Agree with much of that, but can you honestly expect someone to give up their job to fight against the city management?
Because lets face it, when you start going against your boss, your prospect of continued employment is slim.

 

[LRI]

Agree with much of that, but can you honestly expect someone to give up their job to fight against the city management?
Because lets face it, when you start going against your boss, your prospect of continued employment is slim.

What I expect (demand) is for a leader to lead. If a manager is too big of a pussy to make a tough decision and then have the stones to pursue it, he shouldn't be leading. That's part of the job description when your in charge.

Take Colorado Sheriffs telling the BATF to suck it for instance. Think that's not causing the career dissipation lamp to flicker a bit?

I know. I sound like some high minded loony toon who's heads in the clouds while on his zealot rant.

I've backed it up. I'm not liked in this town by many because I will call someone out. I had a big mouth in Iraq when working for State. When your right, your right. Bombarding an argument with logic does work if you have a big enough mouth.



Public service is public service. If you can't hack it, get out of it. The whole point of it is to serve the public, not avoid making waves so that you get a cushy pension and free coffee at the local 7/11.


My whole point here is not to pick a fight with you as we by and large agreed. The gist of this is, it's time citizens take back their communities. Let the village manage itself instead of douchers telling us what to do. (and every home owner, business owner, cop, guy on the street gets what I'm saying at some level.)


Land of the Free and home of the Brave. Our society has a great number of kick ass brave mo fos. Lets get the freedom back too.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I believe here in TN you no longer have to pay the traffic cam tickets. They are sent out to you but it is of your own free will to pay them. The last I heard was the Governor signed a bill that bans them from putting it on your credit report. Which was their last resort for enforcement of this tax. A quote by a local police chief was that he hoped that the people will do the right thing and be good citizens and send in the check.

 

[Tristian19]

1. Yes, you must be certified in our courts and you always have to admit a copy of your certificate into evidence in our court as well as documents from the units last certification.
2. Confirm calibration at beginning and end of shift. Our specific units calibration is confirmed via an outside vendor at least once every year and they are all kept on file.

Thank you for clarification...

 

[Tristian19]

Tristian19. We had to go through a 40 hour class for RADAR and the same for LIDAR. We recert every year on both. The RADAR is tested everyday before and after shift with tuning forks and our speedometer in the car is tested before and after every shift against the RADAR readout at various speeds. The tuning forks are tested every 6 months for accuracy and the car speedometer is tested every 6 months. Each of these are documented properly and notarized and then sent to the applicable courts.
Visual estimation of speed is the key to radar and lidar enforcement. As a well seasoned Circuit Court Judge once said, "The RADAR only confirms what the Officer already knows. Your speed." I assure all of you any LEO that runs RADAR routinely, and worth his salt, can be withing 2 mph on his visual estimation and be able to tell you the speed just by the tone of the RADAR. Also, I bet that the number of cars I give warnings to or don't even bother stopping because of .01% doubt would boggle your mind.
And for all of yall that say its a game and a big revenue generator I have a quote for you. "56 is speeding. 54, impeding." HAHAHA (well, the LEO's will think its funny at least)

Thank you, as well, for clarification.

Much appreciated to both of you.

 

[Tristian19]

"Now I can love you with these hands or I can kill you with them. Your call."- My loving wife

Sounds as if you are married to one BAD ASS QUEEN!!!

 

[pmclaine]

Bottom line here is,if you are to write a poor guy a ticket who has a clean prior record ,instead of lettting him off with a warning,(like please sir slow down ,your record shows no prior speeding violations) to make quotta,you need to re-evaluate your compassion and fairness for people.
7mph is questinable regardless of what anyone here says.regardless of your training,equipment blah,blah,blah.

Just my 2 cents,is all. no disrespect intended.

Some places dont show warnings in the driver history. Why? I dont know.

If its someone I think is an experienced driver with no history or years since their last V they get the break. If its someone I think is a less experienced driver with a clean history they get a V and are advised that they should appeal. I am mainly trying to create a drivers history, and if they go in with their tail between their legs and apologize, more often than not they get a break on the first V - which is true and fine by me. At least than there will be a history showing a not responsible finding.

 

[rgrmike]

So I'm thinking I need to get an Escort 9500 just to be safe.

 

[355sigfan]

Bottom line here is,if you are to write a poor guy a ticket who has a clean prior record ,instead of lettting him off with a warning,(like please sir slow down ,your record shows no prior speeding violations) to make quotta,you need to re-evaluate your compassion and fairness for people.
7mph is questinable regardless of what anyone here says.regardless of your training,equipment blah,blah,blah.

Just my 2 cents,is all. no disrespect intended.

Nope don't agree that just because they have a good record they should not be cited. The offense should determine rather they get a warning or a citation. 10 over a warning is warranted. 15 or more a citation. I cite everyone going 15 mph over the limit regardless. Every one gets treated the same and those with a clean record usually qualify to take a defensive driving class which if they complete on time they get there ticket dismissed. Its a very fair system and those who just made a simple mistake get a way out and those with a habit of speeding are held accountable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[355sigfan]

What I expect (demand) is for a leader to lead. If a manager is too big of a pussy to make a tough decision and then have the stones to pursue it, he shouldn't be leading. That's part of the job description when your in charge.

Take Colorado Sheriffs telling the BATF to suck it for instance. Think that's not causing the career dissipation lamp to flicker a bit?

I know. I sound like some high minded loony toon who's heads in the clouds while on his zealot rant.

I've backed it up. I'm not liked in this town by many because I will call someone out. I had a big mouth in Iraq when working for State. When your right, your right. Bombarding an argument with logic does work if you have a big enough mouth.



Public service is public service. If you can't hack it, get out of it. The whole point of it is to serve the public, not avoid making waves so that you get a cushy pension and free coffee at the local 7/11.


My whole point here is not to pick a fight with you as we by and large agreed. The gist of this is, it's time citizens take back their communities. Let the village manage itself instead of douchers telling us what to do. (and every home owner, business owner, cop, guy on the street gets what I'm saying at some level.)


Land of the Free and home of the Brave. Our society has a great number of kick ass brave mo fos. Lets get the freedom back too.

Sure let the community handle it themselves we saw how well that worked out in Fergusion. The point being communities are not what they used to be and the government many love to blame for all their woes is a reflection of those that elected them.

 

[rgrmike]

"I will f*cking kill you"…nothing is like what it used to be.

 

[355sigfan]

Stressful times after some one did try to kill one of his brothers. Or did you forget about that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rgrmike]

Sure let the community handle it themselves we saw how well that worked out in Fergusion. The point being communities are not what they used to be and the government many love to blame for all their woes is a reflection of those that elected them.

The point is the issues in Ferguson were handled poorly on all sides.

 

[Deadshot2]

Sure let the community handle it themselves we saw how well that worked out in Fergusion. The point being communities are not what they used to be and the government many love to blame for all their woes is a reflection of those that elected them.

Funny thing though, the communities like Ferguson around St Louis are pretty much what they used to be, even today. I lived in the area back in the '70's and saw pretty much the same as what has happened recently.

Have an acquaintance who used to be a St Louis County deputy. In talking to him it was very apparent that the attitudes were, and are, "Us versus them".

Not hard to see why when you are in a store shopping only to see a large group of "community members" (you get the drift) come in, load up with merchandise and then run out the door to a waiting getaway car.

The problems in Ferguson are not unique and they run deep. Not just a generation or two but pretty much back to post Civil War days. One of the worst areas I've ever lived or worked in.

 

[rgrmike]

Funny thing though, the communities like Ferguson around St Louis are pretty much what they used to be, even today. I lived in the area back in the '70's and saw pretty much the same as what has happened recently.

Have an acquaintance who used to be a St Louis County deputy. In talking to him it was very apparent that the attitudes were, and are, "Us versus them".

Not hard to see why when you are in a store shopping only to see a large group of "community members" (you get the drift) come in, load up with merchandise and then run out the door to a waiting getaway car.

The problems in Ferguson are not unique and they run deep. Not just a generation or two but pretty much back to post Civil War days. One of the worst areas I've ever lived or worked in.

Very good point. I think this is the situation in a lot of major cities nation wide. It's very unfortunate for law enforcement as they are the ones sent into the trenches during times of civil unrest. As others have said, these situations/contempt are created by polices put into place by elected officials and individuals in the community. LEO's become the face or subject of the "us versus them" mentality because they're simply carrying out the job that they're there to do.

On this particular issue we've been discussing concerning traffic/tickets/revenue etc, law enforcement can alienate themselves from their core supporters with the whole traffic thing IMHO. Community members who are law-abiding, tax paying, community service oriented etc don't want to have to pay a $200 fee for going 7mph over on the highway in light traffic. This isn't the case everywhere but in a lot of places it is. Times are tough now for many people and many families count on every dime. Life happens to everyone and we're not all privy to every change in mph, things aren't clearly posted, I have out of state tags etc.

 

[fdkay]

What I expect (demand) is for a leader to lead. If a manager is too big of a pussy to make a tough decision and then have the stones to pursue it, he shouldn't be leading. That's part of the job description when your in charge.

Take Colorado Sheriffs telling the BATF to suck it for instance. Think that's not causing the career dissipation lamp to flicker a bit?

I know. I sound like some high minded loony toon who's heads in the clouds while on his zealot rant.

I've backed it up. I'm not liked in this town by many because I will call someone out. I had a big mouth in Iraq when working for State. When your right, your right. Bombarding an argument with logic does work if you have a big enough mouth.



Public service is public service. If you can't hack it, get out of it. The whole point of it is to serve the public, not avoid making waves so that you get a cushy pension and free coffee at the local 7/11.


My whole point here is not to pick a fight with you as we by and large agreed. The gist of this is, it's time citizens take back their communities. Let the village manage itself instead of douchers telling us what to do. (and every home owner, business owner, cop, guy on the street gets what I'm saying at some level.)


Land of the Free and home of the Brave. Our society has a great number of kick ass brave mo fos. Lets get the freedom back too.

Sheriffs are elected officials, a Police Chief is hired and fired by the city manager/mayor. Chiefs have no control over city functions or decisions. Yes, there are some that will stick up for what is right, but as most folks do, most will do what their boss tells them to do.

 

[proneshooter]

Which part like no drivers license until your 18 and very strict drivers tests. Sure then I am all for it.
Pat

That goes along with the part of no freeway speed limits, and significantly higher limits than ours in the few kilometers where they are warranted.

It is the height of arrogance for people like you to think that your answer of slowing everyone down achieves any permanent safety benefit. The germans figured out a long fucking time ago how to make roads safer AND faster, and they don't need some two-bit cop from the land of drunk eskimos telling them how wrong they are. That would be funny as hell.

American speed limits have fuck all to do with safety so long as they are set by legislatures. When traffic engineers are given free rein to do their job without political/legislative micromanagement, we can talk. Until then, spares us the sanctimonious police bullshit.

 

[pmclaine]

That goes along with the part of no freeway speed limits, and significantly higher limits than ours in the few kilometers where they are warranted.....The germans figured out a long fucking time ago how to make roads safer AND faster....American speed limits have fuck all to do with safety so long as they are set by legislatures.

Problem is we let "STOOPID" be a variable in our law making decisions. Legislators legislate to the lowest common denominator because it usually involves the sensational and allows them to preen in front of the cameras.

We need a shift in thinking that takes into account the top of the bell curve rather than its tails.

 

[proneshooter]

We need a shift in thinking that takes into account the top of the bell curve rather than its tails.

No argument from me there.

 

[355sigfan]

That goes along with the part of no freeway speed limits, and significantly higher limits than ours in the few kilometers where they are warranted.

It is the height of arrogance for people like you to think that your answer of slowing everyone down achieves any permanent safety benefit. The germans figured out a long fucking time ago how to make roads safer AND faster, and they don't need some two-bit cop from the land of drunk eskimos telling them how wrong they are. That would be funny as hell.

American speed limits have fuck all to do with safety so long as they are set by legislatures. When traffic engineers are given free rein to do their job without political/legislative micromanagement, we can talk. Until then, spares us the sanctimonious police bullshit.

Countries with the least amount of traffic controls like India have the most amount of deaths. So yes it is about safety.
Pat

 

[rgrmike]

Now we're comparing traffic in Germany to India….home of Mercedes vs. home of donkey's pulling truck axel trailers with 15' tall carpet loads.

 

[proneshooter]

Countries with the least amount of traffic controls like India have the most amount of deaths. So yes it is about safety.
Pat

You've destroyed what little credibility you had.

 

[355sigfan]

You've destroyed what little credibility you had.

Frankly I don't care if I don't have credibility with some idiot like you. If your too stupid to know that speeding kills then your not capable of intelligent debate. Frankly you are just trying to justify your bad behavior and I hope that someday you don't get yourself killed or someone else. I do hope that you get caught enough times that you lose your license before something bad does happen.

 

[355sigfan]

Now we're comparing traffic in Germany to India….home of Mercedes vs. home of donkey's pulling truck axel trailers with 15' tall carpet loads.

The fact of the matter is if you look at traffic deaths they go up exponentially in countries with few to no traffic controls such as no speed limits.
Pat