6.5? How much does it weigh and how does it do positionally? How is the recoil?
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
SPR/DMR matches: What are you running?
- Thread starter Bakwa
- Start date
Recoil is not bad and Paul tunes his ports to cycle super smooth. But it’s always going to be more than a bolt gun.
Weighs 20-21 lbs depends on what all I have mounted to it. I prefer slightly more rearward CG than most so I ordered a slightly lighter contour barrel and have weights in the buttstock.
I do zeroing from barricade because I suck at shooting prone. These were 5 round groups off barricade when I put new optic on. Craddock Bartliens are hammers.
Attachments
Don’t flame me for asking this in the wrong section , but swapping my oldest ar back to mk12 style build. Any of you guys in Ohio or shooting matches in the Buckeye state? No pics of rifle at the moment.
We finally had our inaugural club DMR match, since the January one got rained out.
The match was 5 stages. Scoring is time based and there are time penalties for targets not hit; either not hitting target or deciding to move on. Inside 100yards + 10sec, from 100-300yards + 20sec, and 300yards plus + 40 sec. The stages ranged from 6-15 targets per stage. Yardage ranged from 40-515 yards. Both steel and paper targets. ~125rounds total.
Stage 1
Engage six steel targets from 45 - 60 yards with 2 rounds each from bench. Then from the same bench engage five steel targets (two at 255yards and three at 370 yards) with one round each.
Stage 2
From bottom of barricade engage 5 steel targets at 60 yards on the ridge line with one round each. Neutralize left 3 paper targets with one round in the A zone or 2 rounds on target at 45 yards. From middle of barricade re-engage the 5 steel targets and neutralize the middle 3 paper targets. From top of barricade re-engage the 5 steel targets and neutralize the right 3 paper targets.
Stage 3
From top of drum neutralize 3 right paper targets at 45 yards. Move to prone and neutralize 3 middle paper targets. Move to barricade and neutralize left 3 targets.
Stage 4
From the bench engage 2 targets at 310 yards from left to right with one hit each. Move to tank trap and engage 3 targets from left to right at 310 yards with one hit each. Bonus points for KYL rack at 310. Bonus -10 sec per hit.
Stage 5
From barricade engage 3 targets at 390 yards with one hit each from left to right. Move positions and engage 2 targets at 440 yards with one hit each from left to right Bonus point to engage target at 515yards. Bonus -10 sec per hit.
@PBWalsh got first and I got second. Look forward to the July match.
The match was 5 stages. Scoring is time based and there are time penalties for targets not hit; either not hitting target or deciding to move on. Inside 100yards + 10sec, from 100-300yards + 20sec, and 300yards plus + 40 sec. The stages ranged from 6-15 targets per stage. Yardage ranged from 40-515 yards. Both steel and paper targets. ~125rounds total.
Stage 1
Engage six steel targets from 45 - 60 yards with 2 rounds each from bench. Then from the same bench engage five steel targets (two at 255yards and three at 370 yards) with one round each.
Stage 2
From bottom of barricade engage 5 steel targets at 60 yards on the ridge line with one round each. Neutralize left 3 paper targets with one round in the A zone or 2 rounds on target at 45 yards. From middle of barricade re-engage the 5 steel targets and neutralize the middle 3 paper targets. From top of barricade re-engage the 5 steel targets and neutralize the right 3 paper targets.
Stage 3
From top of drum neutralize 3 right paper targets at 45 yards. Move to prone and neutralize 3 middle paper targets. Move to barricade and neutralize left 3 targets.
Stage 4
From the bench engage 2 targets at 310 yards from left to right with one hit each. Move to tank trap and engage 3 targets from left to right at 310 yards with one hit each. Bonus points for KYL rack at 310. Bonus -10 sec per hit.
Stage 5
From barricade engage 3 targets at 390 yards with one hit each from left to right. Move positions and engage 2 targets at 440 yards with one hit each from left to right Bonus point to engage target at 515yards. Bonus -10 sec per hit.
@PBWalsh got first and I got second. Look forward to the July match.
@blbennett1288
Yeah it was a good match. I got lucky they had so many short range targets in the match. I got hosed on stage 4 and 5. Stage 5‘s tiny target at 388 was frustrating to say the least. Good job to you on those two stages, you could tell who has actually shot PRS type events before and who hasn’t.
I was expecting more PRS and less “carbine”. I guess it worked in my favor this time. Hopefully in July’s match there are a few more longer range targets.
Definitely need to join and practice distance a bit more. Tiny targets at 100y is different than tiny targets at 300+.
Looking forward to running this match again.
Yeah it was a good match. I got lucky they had so many short range targets in the match. I got hosed on stage 4 and 5. Stage 5‘s tiny target at 388 was frustrating to say the least. Good job to you on those two stages, you could tell who has actually shot PRS type events before and who hasn’t.
I was expecting more PRS and less “carbine”. I guess it worked in my favor this time. Hopefully in July’s match there are a few more longer range targets.
Definitely need to join and practice distance a bit more. Tiny targets at 100y is different than tiny targets at 300+.
Looking forward to running this match again.
@Reload10 I went with a Compass Lake Engineering Douglas 18” 223 Wylde 1:7. It runs 77gr SMKs 1/2” - 5/8”. I am now testing out 75gr Hornady’s. I have had good luck with Douglas barrels. I had a MK12 MOD1 that shot lights out for a gasser with a Douglas
I would go 18-20 inch barrel . I have been running a Daniel defense 18 inch heavy barrel 1/7 twist . The matches I shoot go out to 700 yds max with most targets between 300-600 yds . I use 77 grain matchkings and tac powder . I have a 20 inch 1/7 twist ballistic advantage barrel and it is ok but to be honest it really dont gain much over an 18 inch rifle . I should say just the barrel is a Daniel defense ..
Good day gents.
Just a quick recap on my DMR evolution.
I sold the rifle in the original post to my brother in law and bought a 16" CLE Bartlein. It sits on a Vltor MUR upper and has a SLR HG.
I've now been running this rig in DMR style comps since Dec of 2020.
I'm hooked.
My CLE barreled rifle will shoot .75MOA groups with black hills 77gr and about 1MOA with IMI 77gr.
I've hit targets in comps out to 800yds even though it's only a 16" 5.56 (223 wilde) barrel, and it's a monster within 500yds.
I'm extremely pleased with this setup.
I've also had an urge to create a short handy hunting/long range upper so I snagged a 12.5 Noveske 6.5 Grendel barrel, Noveske HG, and put it on another MUR upper.
This is a picture of them side by side.
I hope the Noveske upper performs well like the CLE.
Dare I say, if it does, it may even make the CLE obsolescent.
Just a quick recap on my DMR evolution.
I sold the rifle in the original post to my brother in law and bought a 16" CLE Bartlein. It sits on a Vltor MUR upper and has a SLR HG.
I've now been running this rig in DMR style comps since Dec of 2020.
I'm hooked.
My CLE barreled rifle will shoot .75MOA groups with black hills 77gr and about 1MOA with IMI 77gr.
I've hit targets in comps out to 800yds even though it's only a 16" 5.56 (223 wilde) barrel, and it's a monster within 500yds.
I'm extremely pleased with this setup.
I've also had an urge to create a short handy hunting/long range upper so I snagged a 12.5 Noveske 6.5 Grendel barrel, Noveske HG, and put it on another MUR upper.
This is a picture of them side by side.
I hope the Noveske upper performs well like the CLE.
Dare I say, if it does, it may even make the CLE obsolescent.
I think it works out well.
I've arbitrarily decided that 10x is the max power I want a SFP optic to have. I initially had a Razor LHT 3-15 which is SFP as well and kept finding myself wanting to use holds at 8-10x but couldn't.
Gottcha, so for wind hold you just “hold left side” and dial for elevation?
Any comparison to other optics you could make? I keep thinking about moving to one over my 4-16x42 ATACR to save 11oz. I love the ATACR though.
Any comparison to other optics you could make? I keep thinking about moving to one over my 4-16x42 ATACR to save 11oz. I love the ATACR though.
Basically I just only use max power when holding with it, which is why more than 10x for max magnification in a SFP is unacceptable to me. lol
With the NXS I feel like I have just enough FOV at 10x to make that method work, and it's been working well for me in the DMR comps.
So far as ATACR alternatives that weigh less, I've been seeking that unicorn for a while now.
The Trijicon Credo 2-10 seems well liked, but it comes with its own downfalls. Namely no parallax adjustment, tight eye box/eye relief, and major distortion/CA around the edges of the glass.
S&B has their precision hunter line. Not sure if they're discontinuing it, but that checks a lot of boxes.
Supposedly ZCO is going to attempt an alpha class crossover scope to fulfill this role. Looking like if they do, it will be 2023-2024 before we could get our hands on it.
If NF would just make a FFP 2.5-10 NXS I could live with the limited eye relief on it. lol
The struggle is real. As you can see I just have a fixed 10x SWFA on my 5.56 precision AR right now as a place holder. Trying to decide if I want to snag a second NXS or if I want to hold out for something better.. [looking at you ZCO]. We'll see.
Cheers
@PBWalsh @Bakwa
I currently run a 4-16x42 ATACR and never get above x10. I really like it but it has me thinking about better options for a DMR optic.
I ran a NXS 2.5-10x24 for a bit. I really enjoyed the scope, but on 10 power things were tight. Because of this I typically tan it on x8, but the subtensions were incorrect being a SFP scope. At a weight of 17oz and 10” it was an awesome DMR scope for its time.
I think the scope to beat would be the ATACR 1-8 or Razor GenIII 1-10. The ATACR on 8 is a lot like the razor on 8, and both are much better than the NXS 2.5-10. To me parallax on a DMR gasser is not needed since the targets are typically forgiving enough and you won’t be shooting past 600-700 yards much.
Vortex GENIII 1-10, 21.5oz, 10.1”, FOV 116’ - 11.7’
ATACR 1-8, 21oz, 10.1”, FOV 96.1’ - 13.1’
I have always dialed elevation and held windage. Never enjoyed hold overs and unders of a significant amount. If we have multiple targets for a PRS match that requires it; I’ll typically dial the middle target so I have hold unders and hold overs and I am not always holding over.
I currently run a 4-16x42 ATACR and never get above x10. I really like it but it has me thinking about better options for a DMR optic.
I ran a NXS 2.5-10x24 for a bit. I really enjoyed the scope, but on 10 power things were tight. Because of this I typically tan it on x8, but the subtensions were incorrect being a SFP scope. At a weight of 17oz and 10” it was an awesome DMR scope for its time.
I think the scope to beat would be the ATACR 1-8 or Razor GenIII 1-10. The ATACR on 8 is a lot like the razor on 8, and both are much better than the NXS 2.5-10. To me parallax on a DMR gasser is not needed since the targets are typically forgiving enough and you won’t be shooting past 600-700 yards much.
Vortex GENIII 1-10, 21.5oz, 10.1”, FOV 116’ - 11.7’
ATACR 1-8, 21oz, 10.1”, FOV 96.1’ - 13.1’
I have always dialed elevation and held windage. Never enjoyed hold overs and unders of a significant amount. If we have multiple targets for a PRS match that requires it; I’ll typically dial the middle target so I have hold unders and hold overs and I am not always holding over.
Last edited:
Yeah I wish I would’ve noticed what magnification I generally had it on at the match last Sunday. I’d estimate 8-12x though.
@Bakwa yeah a NXS 2.5-10x32/36/42 FFP would be an instant purchase. I send NF and email every January asking for it. The March 1-8 F1 does have a parallax adjustment if you’re cool with an LPVO based optic.
Primary Arms’ GLx 2.5-10x44 is in FFP with parallax adjustment and weighs 22.4oz at 12.5”. But I’m not sure if I want to give up a LOW made ATACR for an optic made in the Philippines. Feel like I’d be giving up a lot for 8oz of weight savings.
SWFA‘s 3-9x42 is a bit long at 13.1” but weighs only 19oz and is FFP, no parallax. Big thing is that SWFA hasn’t had them in stock in years.
@Bakwa yeah a NXS 2.5-10x32/36/42 FFP would be an instant purchase. I send NF and email every January asking for it. The March 1-8 F1 does have a parallax adjustment if you’re cool with an LPVO based optic.
Primary Arms’ GLx 2.5-10x44 is in FFP with parallax adjustment and weighs 22.4oz at 12.5”. But I’m not sure if I want to give up a LOW made ATACR for an optic made in the Philippines. Feel like I’d be giving up a lot for 8oz of weight savings.
SWFA‘s 3-9x42 is a bit long at 13.1” but weighs only 19oz and is FFP, no parallax. Big thing is that SWFA hasn’t had them in stock in years.
I have a couple leupold M3s I've been hoarding for the whole SPR rifle gig just because of the weight and eyebox. The 168 dial with MK262 ammo is pretty damn close vertically when shooting silhouettes too. Of course any elevation dial can be a "BDC" dial if you know the numbers offhand. Unfortunately there aren't many good spots to go past 200 where I live now and the windy season is starting up so shooting will be forbidden on public lands.
Seen here:
D10SV24FIML (MIL, Tactical, Illumi) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation
MARCH Scopes Official Site
marchscopes.com
D8V24FML (MIL, Tactical) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation
MARCH Scopes Official Site
marchscopes.com
D24V42FML (MIL, Tactical) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation
MARCH Scopes Official Site
marchscopes.com
Yeah, I’m kinda skeptical about a 10x with a 24mm objective. The 1-8 looks better. The 3-24 looks pretty promising as well. I definitely cannot argue with the dimensions of either optic.
Maybe one day. I bought my ATACR off here because it was such a good deal. I’d be hard pressed to pay full price for a March.
Maybe one day. I bought my ATACR off here because it was such a good deal. I’d be hard pressed to pay full price for a March.
Soooo… I had a 1-10 Shorty for all of one range session and didn’t like it. Was sold within a week thereafter.
Pros - lightweight, very versatile, daytime bright illumination, positive controls, beautiful image on 1x
Cons - finicky parallax, awkward/proprietary mounting solutions, 10x was awkward to get behind
Maybe it just wasn’t for me, but I found it to be an awkward optic. Can’t really put the word on it, but it was just “meh” for me.
Bought a TA31 ACOG / HS 509T combo as a replacement and find it a much more useable system for me. Again, it could just be me as I went from one of the most highly engineered LPVOs to an “outdated” piece of technology and find it superior for me. Optical systems are a very personal thing.
Note before further explanation. I like to try things out and am willing to buy something and sell at a tiny discount as a “rental fee”. Things that I may find a pro/con applies to the rifle in which its being applied to and may not translate to another use case. Some rifles will benefit from X while others may benefit from Y, and user experiences may vary without logical flow. There is no “one setup” for everyone. If available, I think folks would be happier if they experimented with different configurations to find what suits them best.Ya I saw your sale post. I also almost bought it from you. Good to hear your feedback on it. But I'm also kinda confused on your cons. finicky parallax, awkward/proprietary mounting solutions, 10x was awkward to get behind. The ACOG has no parallax adjustment and for a lot of people's eyes the reticle is not focused. Their mounts are super proprietary, and the eye relief is extremely short. It literally sounds like you're talking about the ACOG. I've had the exact setup you just switched to and sold it.But you didn't like the March and there's no arguing that. I wonder if a normal sized March 1x8 would be the fix.
Now to address the pros/cons further in context.
Parallax:
I found that I simply didn’t need it. For 90% of what I need from this rifle, an adjustable parallax was not needed. For the other 10%, I can back my head off a tiny bit and use the slight scope shadow to confirm zero parallax. Or just practice more.
Getting behind optic/awkward mounting solution/eye relief:
Oddly I find the standard TA50 TA31 ACOG mount + 5.5 KRAM riser when placed on the back of an upper receiver gives me a natural head position. Add a micro dot up top and I’ve got a natural headbox position. Very fast to look through, no magnification ring to flip.
Unfocused reticle:
100% agree. Without contacts/glasses, I cannot look through an ACOG. Hope to get lasix next year and get Mk2 eyeballs.
Again, for me and my rifle, this seems to be a better fit. The guy I sold the March to is putting it on a 6.5G. I’m 100% sure in that context he will find more benefit out of the March. The 1-8 was actually what I wanted, but found a screaming deal for a used (looked brand new) March 1-10 for ~$1825 from @RKBArmory so I couldn’t pass that up.
Hope that kinda clears up my original summary and gives some context.
@reubenski
Yeah my dream “general purpose” optic would be a NF NXS 2.5-10x32 in FFP. I just do not want it in SFP. I’d slap this on a few rifles combined with a dot up top.
I email Nightforce every January about this.
2.5-10x32 (or 36)
Mil-R/SCR, or a basic Christmas tree reticle
30mm maintube
capped windage
toolless ZS elevation (such as the March F 1-8/3-24 series) with a zero stop point 1 mil below 0
adjustable side parallax
<12”, <20oz
FFP
locking diopter adjustment
non-illumination
Maybe one day. Seems like the industry is focused on maxing the mechanical limit of an erector system or pushing the limits of upper magnification. Meanwhile I want a simple 4x erector optic in FFP.
Yeah my dream “general purpose” optic would be a NF NXS 2.5-10x32 in FFP. I just do not want it in SFP. I’d slap this on a few rifles combined with a dot up top.
I email Nightforce every January about this.
2.5-10x32 (or 36)
Mil-R/SCR, or a basic Christmas tree reticle
30mm maintube
capped windage
toolless ZS elevation (such as the March F 1-8/3-24 series) with a zero stop point 1 mil below 0
adjustable side parallax
<12”, <20oz
FFP
locking diopter adjustment
non-illumination
Maybe one day. Seems like the industry is focused on maxing the mechanical limit of an erector system or pushing the limits of upper magnification. Meanwhile I want a simple 4x erector optic in FFP.
@blbennett1288 Yeah they do, with the GLx 2.5-10x44 from Primary Arms being the best spec‘d of the three. The PST is the same size as a Mk5 3-18 and the Trijicon doesn’t have a parallax adjustment (though not a huuuuuge deal), but it is a tad long for this rifle at 13.1”. Put my 4-16 ATACR on it for fun before it was sold and at 12.6”, it kinda interfered with my weapon light switch controls. This is why I’m specifying a sub 12” length.
Again, rifle purpose and context is driving my decisions here. Smallish rifle with big dreams.
Again, rifle purpose and context is driving my decisions here. Smallish rifle with big dreams.
I have one of the leupold tacticals with short eye relief (mk12 SPR etc) and it's fantastic on top of an AR15. The way it is mounted on the rifle it won't interfere with any controls either.
Good luck finding one though as the current clone market has gone off the rails.
@PBWalsh
I am kind of in the same boat. I have a 1-10 G3 on one of my 14.5” uppers and it works pretty well but I found myself not really happy with it for the kind of match these uppers are for. I ended up going to an old school TA-01 with an RMR up top and I like it better for now.
My main gripe is the Vortex reticle. I’m an MOA shooter and their BDC is lacking IMO. The weight and the way the rifle carried and balances is also not what I like.
The ACOG reticle lacking as well but with my 77gr load it’s within 1-2MOA at 600, which is close enough. The RMR makes quick work of stuff inside 100-300 depending on target size and I have been fairly happy with use age of both in the VTAC barricade.
I cannot bring myself to get rid of he G3 though. IMO it’s roll is for a DMR rifle. I run it in a 1.93 mount, It can be pressed into assaulting and I am probably only a fraction of a second slower for most positions but I find the ACOG/RMR a little easier at this point on the shorter uppers with most of the shots inside 300, and only some out to 650-ish.
I would really like to try an NX8 with the MOA reticle. This may be the best of both worlds for me. Maybe in the spring. Thinking maybe a 1.7 mount with an RMR up front if needed. Or maybe another 1.93 if I find I don’t need/want the RMR.
Edit 7-1-22. After re-reading a bunch of this thread it’s occurred to me that the type of match I like is more like a two gun match and less of a SPR/DMR match. If I didn't have a lot of movement, etc. I think any decent FFP medium sized scope with an Piggyback red dot would be fine.
The G3 aiming point at 100/200 leaves a lot to be desired if you need to shoot something tiny. Being a good red dot doesn’t lend itself to precision, even at 10x but otherwise it works fine if you have time to think about the BDC vs DOPE. Getting behind it is pretty easy unless you crouching, etc.
I am kind of in the same boat. I have a 1-10 G3 on one of my 14.5” uppers and it works pretty well but I found myself not really happy with it for the kind of match these uppers are for. I ended up going to an old school TA-01 with an RMR up top and I like it better for now.
My main gripe is the Vortex reticle. I’m an MOA shooter and their BDC is lacking IMO. The weight and the way the rifle carried and balances is also not what I like.
The ACOG reticle lacking as well but with my 77gr load it’s within 1-2MOA at 600, which is close enough. The RMR makes quick work of stuff inside 100-300 depending on target size and I have been fairly happy with use age of both in the VTAC barricade.
I cannot bring myself to get rid of he G3 though. IMO it’s roll is for a DMR rifle. I run it in a 1.93 mount, It can be pressed into assaulting and I am probably only a fraction of a second slower for most positions but I find the ACOG/RMR a little easier at this point on the shorter uppers with most of the shots inside 300, and only some out to 650-ish.
I would really like to try an NX8 with the MOA reticle. This may be the best of both worlds for me. Maybe in the spring. Thinking maybe a 1.7 mount with an RMR up front if needed. Or maybe another 1.93 if I find I don’t need/want the RMR.
Edit 7-1-22. After re-reading a bunch of this thread it’s occurred to me that the type of match I like is more like a two gun match and less of a SPR/DMR match. If I didn't have a lot of movement, etc. I think any decent FFP medium sized scope with an Piggyback red dot would be fine.
The G3 aiming point at 100/200 leaves a lot to be desired if you need to shoot something tiny. Being a good red dot doesn’t lend itself to precision, even at 10x but otherwise it works fine if you have time to think about the BDC vs DOPE. Getting behind it is pretty easy unless you crouching, etc.
Last edited:
@PBWalsh I like my 4-16x42 ATACR, but I don’t think it’s perfect.
I spend the majority of time in SPR / DMR matches from x8-12 for distance shooting (300-700 yards) and the closer stuff around x4-6 (100-300 yards). Anything closer than 100 I am running my offset T2.
Because I don’t use the scope below x4 I don’t see much use in 1-2.5 power on the low end as you are sacrificing top end magnification
In my humble experience the extra mag is helpful in precision type stages, which given the match could be 50% of the time.
An ideal scope for me would be:
3-12, 3-15, 4-16, 2.5-12.5
30mm
12”
~20oz
FFP
MIL-C or MIL-XT type reticle
Capped windage
Illumination
Forgiving side parallax
I have been tempted to try the Razor GEN3 1-10, but it seems like the sweet spot for that optic is at x8 and that using it at x10 isn’t realistic.
I was really hopeful that Vortex would release a 3-12 or 4-16 AMG. And that would have been the golden ticket. But since that program was nixed I can give up on that pipe dream.
I spend the majority of time in SPR / DMR matches from x8-12 for distance shooting (300-700 yards) and the closer stuff around x4-6 (100-300 yards). Anything closer than 100 I am running my offset T2.
Because I don’t use the scope below x4 I don’t see much use in 1-2.5 power on the low end as you are sacrificing top end magnification
In my humble experience the extra mag is helpful in precision type stages, which given the match could be 50% of the time.
An ideal scope for me would be:
3-12, 3-15, 4-16, 2.5-12.5
30mm
12”
~20oz
FFP
MIL-C or MIL-XT type reticle
Capped windage
Illumination
Forgiving side parallax
I have been tempted to try the Razor GEN3 1-10, but it seems like the sweet spot for that optic is at x8 and that using it at x10 isn’t realistic.
I was really hopeful that Vortex would release a 3-12 or 4-16 AMG. And that would have been the golden ticket. But since that program was nixed I can give up on that pipe dream.
Last edited:
There seems to be a lack of medium powered scopes for an AR like these. I think the 4x16x42 NF would be my choice. I don't know why there aren't more like this, a 3x18x42 would be great. Everything seems to have a 50mm objective these days.
Bushnell was on the right track with the LRTS / LRHS 3-12 but they seem to have lost favor or been discontinued.
I have a ATACR 4-16x42 and ran a MK6 3 -18 for a bit, just wish there was some lighter weight 30mm options.
I have a ATACR 4-16x42 and ran a MK6 3 -18 for a bit, just wish there was some lighter weight 30mm options.
Last edited:
Nightforce would say its covered by the 2.5-20. I really wanted to like that scope but the parallax was very sensitive.
Yep those are pretty much all there is with an 18x top end and a <50mm objective that I know of.
It weighs 28.5 oz, if rather have an atacr 4-16x42 that weights 30 oz. it won’t happen but a 20oz 3-18x42 would be great. I’m not sure it would be possible.
I have grown up in the shooting shorts world doing PRS. I like PRS, but I only shoot local & regional matches now. I like the two man sniper comps, but they are few and far between. Kinda leaves a void, if you will, between practicality and fun.
I have been shooting DMR / SPR matches this year and I think they are the perfect mix of practicality and fun. I have been encouraging shooters around me to show up and attend these events as that is the only way they will stay.
I have been shooting DMR / SPR matches this year and I think they are the perfect mix of practicality and fun. I have been encouraging shooters around me to show up and attend these events as that is the only way they will stay.
Id like to see more field matches in the South East, but for some reason, other than the occasional NRL Hunter match, they haven't taken off like the mid west and west coast. There is talk of a more field events starting this fall in the near me, but we will have to wait and see how that pans out. They would offer a 2 Day Team Hike & Shoot, Combat Biathlon Ruck-n-Gun, DMR Challenge, and a one day Outlaw Precision Rifle comp. Those would check all the boxes for events that are fun and practical IMHO.
The 2 and 3 gun stuff around me all seems to be from 0 to 300 yards and the targets are generous. The MD's of the DMR / SPR matches I have shot have done an excellent job incorporating a variety of ranges. Id day 60% were 300-700 yards and 40% was 50-300. Throw a pistol in for a couple stages and it makes for a great time.
I'm also in the SE. Hard to find matches. Used to be some good ones in Taylorsville GA but the MD/owner retired. Looks like occasionally there is one at Sawmill and one at Arena.
I'd love to see some matches of that sort in my neighborhood. I'm primarily a 3 gunner but if I'm gonna shoot a 1 gun match I'd prefer it to be rifle. I've tried some rifle matches and they all end up 'tactical carbine' matches inside of 50 yards, where the shooting is a far distant priority compared to mag changes every 5 rounds and standing in the right colored box to shoot the coordinating color target, all while making up the scoring system on the fly, because "it's not about winning or losing, it's about training". Very ghey stuff. If I'm gonna do all bay stuff with a long gun I'll just shoot PCC in USPSA so I can go fast and have fun.
On the other end we have the Border Wars series and some outlaw precision matches, stuff that can't really hold the interest of this gas gun guy. Nothing in between.
I agree with the above, I’d love to see a 2-3 day match incorporating rifle from 25-600, some pistol, and a tiny bit of landnav. And make a division where folks have to carry all their supplies.
10/10 would play. Probably get it handed to me but I’d have a great time.
10/10 would play. Probably get it handed to me but I’d have a great time.
You guys may want to check out the Stennett Legion matches. Specifically the 9/11 match. It’s three days of one day events. 5k Or 10k movement with obstacles and ranges scattered around the course. This year there are optional night matches as well. NOD only 5k Friday night and white light Saturday night. Three classes, light fighter, operator (rifle plates) and Tier 1 (rifle plates and start/finish with 45#+ ruck.
It kicked my ass last year, and I can’t wait for September to do it again. Unknown course of fire but we shot from 5 yards to 630 yards last year and the COF was somber, but amazing IMO. More of a 2 gun match with some longer shots. Not precision oriented but pretty strict on time and with physical and mental challenges. Think “if you’re gonna be dumb, you better be tough” type shit.
It kicked my ass last year, and I can’t wait for September to do it again. Unknown course of fire but we shot from 5 yards to 630 yards last year and the COF was somber, but amazing IMO. More of a 2 gun match with some longer shots. Not precision oriented but pretty strict on time and with physical and mental challenges. Think “if you’re gonna be dumb, you better be tough” type shit.
Deadzero in Tennessee. It's a legit match.
Sorry about the cross post. I don’t have Facebook, etc so it’s the only way I get info.
2019 (Rock Castle) and 2021 (Deadzero) videos
2022 Legion Memorial Run N Gun: Sept 10-11, Spencer, TN
The best place to learn all the details about this year's match is on the Facebook Event Page at https://www.facebook.com/events/2216998515118725 - but I totally get that we have several people who (rightly) hate Facebook, so I'll repost what I think are the important points here for non-FBers...
www.m4carbine.net
2019 (Rock Castle) and 2021 (Deadzero) videos
Last edited:
If I should take this to PMs let me know.
The 10k is one day. They put like 30 people through it last year in a day and when I did it I only got passed twice so your pretty much out there by yourself. I have to walk ( 4 x back surgeries) and made it in just over 4 hours. Super disappointed in my time but I couldn’t anticipate some of the obstacles or how tired I would actually be moving that far, totally soaked with boots full of water in plates. Massive leg cramps three or four miles in. Brought back an old saying we had. “ Too light to fight. Too heavy to run”. But that’s horseshit because most guys,(and women) plates or not, made it in under 3 hours. There are clearly people who are great at this stuff.
Caveat, I competed with the ROs because our LR State Championship is that weekend so my visibility was limited. Two groups that I saw. The group that understands the game and treats it as such and the people doing proof of concept stuff in full on Ninja kit, etc. I fell into the latter and will again this year but I’m going to try to be smarter about it. It absolutely helps sort out kit and what isn’t working.
It was extremely well run. Everyone was upbeat, despite the meaning of the stages. 100% professional. Good commo on the course, and the course is damn big. Clear stage directions. I can’t say enough about how much I enjoyed this match, double fisted lunch to the nuts it was. Hope to see a bunch of you there, if there’s still spots. Sold out quickly last year.
The 10k is one day. They put like 30 people through it last year in a day and when I did it I only got passed twice so your pretty much out there by yourself. I have to walk ( 4 x back surgeries) and made it in just over 4 hours. Super disappointed in my time but I couldn’t anticipate some of the obstacles or how tired I would actually be moving that far, totally soaked with boots full of water in plates. Massive leg cramps three or four miles in. Brought back an old saying we had. “ Too light to fight. Too heavy to run”. But that’s horseshit because most guys,(and women) plates or not, made it in under 3 hours. There are clearly people who are great at this stuff.
Caveat, I competed with the ROs because our LR State Championship is that weekend so my visibility was limited. Two groups that I saw. The group that understands the game and treats it as such and the people doing proof of concept stuff in full on Ninja kit, etc. I fell into the latter and will again this year but I’m going to try to be smarter about it. It absolutely helps sort out kit and what isn’t working.
It was extremely well run. Everyone was upbeat, despite the meaning of the stages. 100% professional. Good commo on the course, and the course is damn big. Clear stage directions. I can’t say enough about how much I enjoyed this match, double fisted lunch to the nuts it was. Hope to see a bunch of you there, if there’s still spots. Sold out quickly last year.
Last edited:
Similar threads
