Rifle Scopes SPR Scope NOW PLEASE!!!

[Pointman308]

Is it me or is there a niche missing for the SPR guys? I've recently gotten into the SPR world and have a really good rifle built and it shoots lights out! However trying to select a good optic for it that doesn't break the bank or my back is near impossible. Vortex is the only manufacturer that has gotten close, but their most recent product the GEN 2 2.5-10x32 is a real let down in my opinion. It weighs frickin 26ounces!!!! They had it close with their previous model in the 2.5-10x32 HS LR with the XLR reticle. This scope was exactly what a lot of us are looking for, but was missing one thing; illumination. So a FFP scope with those dimensions and illumination, 30mm tube, smaller objective 32mm-36mm, compact (under 12 inches) covered or locking turrets under 20 ounces. Whataya say builders? Lets get something designed and built by 2018. Thanks..........

 

[hk dave]

How about a Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm. It comes in at 19oz! Only problem is the cost of course.

 

[SRPowah]

This reminds me of the car world: Fast, Reliable, Cheap. Pick two.

If you want everything, you are going to have to pay for it. If you can't justify it, you have to make a sacrifice somewhere.

 

[deersniper]

NF 2.5-10 or Trijicon 1-8

 

[wareagle700]

For the budget minded, the SWFA HD 3-9x42 is a solid optic and not too big or heavy. They have an excellent reputation for tracking and durability and the HD scopes have really good glass for the money. Right now you can get them for $450, thats a value I truly believe cannot be beat for a FFP mil/mil scope.

 

[ra2bach]

Is it me or is there a niche missing for the SPR guys? I've recently gotten into the SPR world and have a really good rifle built and it shoots lights out! However trying to select a good optic for it that doesn't break the bank or my back is near impossible. Vortex is the only manufacturer that has gotten close, but their most recent product the GEN 2 2.5-10x32 is a real let down in my opinion. It was weighs frickin 26ounces!!!! They had it close with their previous model in the 2.5-10x32 HS LR with the XLR reticle. This scope was exactly what a lot of us are looking for, but was missing one thing; illumination. So a FFP scope with those dimensions and illumination, 30mm tube, smaller objective 32mm-36mm, compact (under 12 inches) covered or locking turrets under 20 ounces. Whataya says builders? Lets get something designed and built by 2018. Thanks..........

what you want may not be available now but what about the Burris 2-10x42? or is this just more of the same?..

 

[Pointman308]

I have looked at all of these options and they aren’t bad, just not what I want. I just discovered that leupold of all people make there 3-9x40mm Patrol model with mil adjustments and sold through Midway. The turrets are ent covered but it is as close as it gets to what I’m looking for outside of the $1600 dollar nightforce.

 

[lennyo3034]

Bushnell LRHS or LRTSi

 

[Pointman308]

And actually the patrol scope from leupold isn’t it either. The reticle stadia are way to thick. I love bushnell but those scope are way to heavy.

 

[Alamo]

This reminds me of the car world: Fast, Reliable, Cheap. Pick two.

If you want everything, you are going to have to pay for it. If you can't justify it, you have to make a sacrifice somewhere.

Qft. For optics it's glass, weight and affordability.

Ops in a tough spot, I'm trying to do the same thing ATM and my search has been as frustrating.

I hunt on foot year round and I'm not looking forward to it but I'm certain my concession will be weight. C'est la vie.....at least the weight only matters while you're moving.

 

[TheGerman]

So are you wanting an optic that's light to simply shoot SPR distances with, or are you wanting something with a very low end that you are thinking you're going to switch to and shoot CQB distances with?

If the answer is both, well, I want a cheap Ferrari too. And you are right, a SPR optic is something that seems to be a missing niche but I am sure theres a bunch of technical reasons as to why it isn't as easy as we'd hope for.

The trade off with SPR's is the trick. You either get a shitty high end and decent low end or the other way around. Combine that with eye box issues between max/min power and the fact that the reticle won't be parallax free when you're using it like a red dot and things go sideways quick. There is no perfect optic for this if this is what you're wanting to do. Honestly, features have been added and the problems/solutions have been mixed and matched with newer optics, but we haven't come very far since the NF 2.5-10x24 in this respect.

If your answer is in fact 'I want to do both', look into a lighter weight optic with the upper range you want for the distances you shoot (I'd stay around 10x) and then find the lowest sitting RDS that can be tube/ring mounted directly over the tube, as low as possible.

For example to show you some of what you're looking to overcome, my Mk12Mod1 has the NF 2.5-10x24 on it. At 10x the stock is in the 4th position back for proper eye relief and length of pull. At 2.5x, I have to bring the stock in 2 positions for the eye box to even remotely not be blacked out when trying to use it like a red dot, let alone take the length out of the rifle for a better/steadier center of gravity. Still with that, the edges easily get blacked out when I'm moving it between targets, moving around, etc. It's not perfect. To fix that, I have the Insight ring mount (its impossible to find, but I managed to snag one for the Mk12) built specifically for the Insight MRDS to basically sit on top of the tube, with you just barely looking over the turret. Your cheek weld and natural shooting position are 100 times better than having to do the retarded 45 degree flip that offset mounts have, and I get on targets FAST.

You may have to look into something like this, because there is no scope out there that does distance plus CQB/short range well.

 

[Pointman308]

So are you wanting an optic that's light to simply shoot SPR distances with, or are you wanting something with a very low end that you are thinking you're going to switch to and shoot CQB distances with?

If the answer is both, well, I want a cheap Ferrari too. And you are right, a SPR optic is something that seems to be a missing niche but I am sure theres a bunch of technical reasons as to why it isn't as easy as we'd hope for.

The trade off with SPR's is the trick. You either get a shitty high end and decent low end or the other way around. Combine that with eye box issues between max/min power and the fact that the reticle won't be parallax free when you're using it like a red dot and things go sideways quick. There is no perfect optic for this if this is what you're wanting to do. Honestly, features have been added and the problems/solutions have been mixed and matched with newer optics, but we haven't come very far since the NF 2.5-10x24 in this respect.

If your answer is in fact 'I want to do both', look into a lighter weight optic with the upper range you want for the distances you shoot (I'd stay around 10x) and then find the lowest sitting RDS that can be tube/ring mounted directly over the tube, as low as possible.i t

For example to show you some of what you're looking to overcome, my Mk12Mod1 has the NF 2.5-10x24 on it. At 10x the stock is in the 4th position back for proper eye relief and length of pull. At 2.5x, I have to bring the stock in 2 positions for the eye box to even remotely not be blacked out when trying to use it like a red dot, let alone take the length out of the rifle for a better/steadier center of gravity. Still with that, the edges easily get blacked out when I'm moving it between targets, moving around, etc. It's not perfect. To fix that, I have the Insight ring mount (its impossible to find, but I managed to snag one for the Mk12) built specifically for the Insight MRDS to basically sit on top of the tube, with you just barely looking over the turret. Your cheek weld and natural shooting position are 100 times better than having to do the retarded 45 degree flip that offset mounts have, and I get on targets FAST.

You may have to look into something like this, because there is no scope out there that does distance plus CQB/short range well.

I truly appreciate this thought provoking response. My answer is I don't want to do both. I care more about the 9-10 aspect of what I'm looking for. If three power is the lowest I could get then so be it. I'm not into the 1 power variable scopes that much because the ones that I can afford are not that good. Examples being the Strike Eagle, Primary Arms, Atibal etc..... I care more about the aility to shoot medium to long range and being able to cranking it down low for coyotes or closer range targets. I'm not a CQB minded type of person.(I own a handgun) To me it is not much to expect there to be a scope with covered mil turrets and a mil based reticle that is 2.5-10x36mm or 32 mm with illumination and a 30mm tube. This is not a technically hard scope to manufacture. I just don't know why they don't exhist.

The Trijicon Accupower 3-9x40mm is the closest thing I can find. I only wish it had a 30mm tube and and a smaller objective.

 

[BobinNC]

As close as your going to get.....

https://swfa.com/leica-1-5-10x42-magnus-i-30mm-rifle-scope-23.html

https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/123843/

https://swfa.com/sig-sauer-3-12x42-t...lescope-9.html

https://swfa.com/leica-1-8-12x50-mag...-scope-17.html

https://swfa.com/schmidt-bender-3-12...escope-28.html

https://swfa.com/schmidt-bender-3-12...escope-27.html

 

[Pointman308]

Ive kicked all of those around. They are either way to expensive or way to heavy for a SPR. In my opinion anyways. That sig Sauer is so frickin close. If they would only paint their scope black!

 

[TheGerman]

Not even joking, outside of the capped turrets, you may have luck with the olschool Leupold 3.5-10 M5

 

[BobinNC]

Ive kicked all of those around. They are either way to expensive or way to heavy for a SPR. In my opinion anyways. That sig Sauer is so frickin close. If they would only paint their scope black!

And they do model # 43104......

https://www.eurooptic.com/Sig-Sauer-Tango-4-3-12x42-30mm-MRAD-Black.aspx

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1310666-REG/sig_sauer_sot43104_3_12x42_tango4_side_focus.html

https://www.ebay.com/p/Sig-Sauer-Tango4-3-12x42-FFP-MRAD-Ret-SideFocus-SOT43104/11005497134

 

[Pointman308]

Not even joking, outside of the capped turrets, you may have luck with the olschool Leupold 3.5-10 M5

I’ve been kicking this idea around too. The only draw back is that I want an illuminated reticle and they don’t come illuminated with the M5 turrets.

 

[BoilerUP]

Used PST Gen 1 2.5-10x32...

 

[Pointman308]

Used PST Gen 1 2.5-10x32...

Yep

 

[Alamo]

To add a slight twist on what the German had to offer....

As a suggestion I didn't like, you likely won't like, and I'm likely to wind up not liking again....I used to run my 18" ar10 w/ a fixed 10x and a T1 on a 45.

Heavy a.f.

But anything from point blank to 800 yards was an effortless transition.

I know it represents a negative compromise, but disregarding weight, and how it could make a little 4 mile hump seem like 8 uphill both ways....it flat out worked.

If the trek ultimately presents you with a shot, there is no compromise during engagement. Each shines in it's respective role.






​​​​​

 

[BCP]

One of mine has a 3-9x36MM leupold with M3 turrets and illuminated mil dot, it's about perfect except for the fact that they haven't made them in years...

My vortex 32MM was a great little scope, no idea why they quit making those.

 

[Pointman308]

One of mine has a 3-9x36MM leupold with M3 turrets and illuminated mil dot, it's about perfect except for the fact that they haven't made them in years...

My vortex 32MM was a great little scope, no idea why they quit making those.

Im in total agreement.

 

[koshkin]

The closest with currently available scopes is likely Burris XTR II 2-10x42 with G2B reticle.
I am also experimenting with Burris XTR II 1-8x24FFP in this role and it is very serviceable.
Generally, modern 1-8x scopes are kinda getting into this territory.

Personally, I prefer FFP in this application since I do not want to worry what magnification I am on and my go to scope for this has been SWFA SS 3-9x42 for quite some time. I have two and they are excellent (and damn near bulletproof). XTR II 2-10x42 is more full featured with illumination and zero stop. If Burris adds a tree reticle of some sort, it will be damn near perfect.

If you are OK with SFP, some high end hunting scopes would do the trick. I am usign Leica Magnus 1.8-12x50 on my hunting rifle and it would fit this application very well. The 1.5-10x42 version is a couple of ounces lighter and a little more compact. Leica's L-Ballistic reticle is basically a mil-scale at top magnification and if you want to dial, there is a version with exposed elevation turret that works really well.

ILya

 

[Blazin]

Sig Tango6 2-10 on sale at Optics Planet for $719, plus they have 11% off coupon code. It’s MOA reticle.

 

[Blazin]

Better yet:

 

[Pointman308]

Better yet:

It’s got a lot of nice features but it weighs 30 ounces!!!!!

 

[st1650]

VX5HD 3-15x44 with a firedot tmr reticle would be a very good weight/mag combo for a SFP setup.

 

[Pointman308]

VX5HD 3-15x44 with a firedot tmr reticle would be a very good weight/mag combo for a SFP setup.

I think I’m settled on the Trijicon Accu power 3 x 9 unless something comes out this year at Shot.

 

[bburnham]

Not exactly within your original specs, but has worked very well for me: USO 1.8x10 , 30 mm tube, 37mm obj, illuminated.

 

[fdkay]

IMHO, FFP on a low power variable is basically a waste of time.
I definitely understand the desire for locked or capped turrets, and I can understand the desire for illumination.
Sightron almost gets it, they have a SFP 3.5-10 with capped turrets and one with illumination but not one with both.
They also have a couple of very dandy looking 2-10 S-Tac, but only in MOA or Duplex and no illumination.

i really think the VXR Patrol is an excellent option here. You are talking SPR not a precision rifle.
The new Mueller Tac II offers quite a bit, especially for the price and weighs only 17 ounces.
I have one of the older models and it punches way above it's weight, it remains a 1" tube though.
http://muelleroptics.com/products/mueller-2-5-10x44-tac-ii/

 

[Pointman308]

IMHO, FFP on a low power variable is basically a waste of time.
I definitely understand the desire for locked or capped turrets, and I can understand the desire for illumination.
Sightron almost gets it, they have a SFP 3.5-10 with capped turrets and one with illumination but not one with both.
They also have a couple of very dandy looking 2-10 S-Tac, but only in MOA or Duplex and no illumination.

i really think the VXR Patrol is an excellent option here. You are talking SPR not a precision rifle.
The new Mueller Tac II offers quite a bit, especially for the price and weighs only 17 ounces.
I have one of the older models and it punches way above it's weight, it remains a 1" tube though.
http://muelleroptics.com/products/mu...-10x44-tac-ii/

That sightron stac is so close to what I’m looking for it’s not funny. I’ve really been looking hard at that one. SFP would do just fine. I may have miscommunicated the need for FFP. I wish it wasn’t bdc though. I also have looked hard at the vxr. The reticle seems to be a little thick for SFP doesn’t it?

 

[RFutch]

Do not go with the VXR Patrol. The reticle is completely useless. The .5 mil marks and the 1 mil marks are so close to the same size you can't tell them apart. You literally have to count your way through them to use a holdover.

I'm in the same boat as you in that there are not many good options in the SPR scopes. The SWFA 3-9x42 looks to be about the best there is for a reasonable price if you can live without illumination.

 

[Pointman308]

Do not go with the VXR Patrol. The reticle is completely useless. The .5 mil marks and the 1 mil marks are so close to the same size you can't tell them apart. You literally have to count your way through them to use a holdover.

I'm in the same boat as you in that there are not many good options in the SPR scopes. The SWFA 3-9x42 looks to be about the best there is for a reasonable price if you can live without illumination.

What do you think about the Trijicon Accupower?

 

[Pointman308]

I hate to say this but leupold needs to bring back an updated version of the Mark 4 mr/t! Oh and it should not cost a Dr. Evil type price....

 

[RFutch]

What do you think about the Trijicon Accupower?

I really like them especially in the 4-16. I’ve seen the 3-9 and I remember the mil reticle being a little thin but still usable.

 

[locobob]

I've been running a VXR 3-9 Patrol on my MK12 mod1 for several years now. Pros: inexpensive, very light weight, decent glass, mil/mil, and I find that the firedot works really well - the shake awake is a great feature. Cons: wish the windage turret was capped, TMR reticle is a little on the thick side, .5 mil hashes are hard to discern from 1. mil hashes. Overall I like it quite a bit on the SPR, anything better tends to be twice the price and a good bit heavier.

 

[-=boone=-]

Update the MR/T to mil/mil for $200

 

[Birddog6424]

Qft. For optics it's glass, weight and affordability.

Ops in a tough spot, I'm trying to do the same thing ATM and my search has been as frustrating.

I hunt on foot year round and I'm not looking forward to it but I'm certain my concession will be weight. C'est la vie.....at least the weight only matters while you're moving.

I suppose everyone has a different list of priorities. But for me reliability and durability are definitely in the top 3. Glass is worthless if the scope doesn't track, or hold zero. Mechanically bullet proof is a must in a scope, as is it's ability to withstand punishment and not break. The scope is the weakest link in the whole system. And breakage or loss of zero at a match or hunt of a lifetime is an absolute no go.

So I guess for me, it boils down to reliable, durable, and glass. In that order with glass a very, very distant 3rd. I hunted for 20 years with a $100 Bushnell Sportview and never had a glass issue. So I certainly don't get wrapped around the axle over it these days. That same scope held zero in a saddle scabbard when my horse fell on it, and didn't break when I rolled my ATV on it. No hunt ending issues, ever. That's a good scope.

 

[Pointman308]

Update the MR/T to mil/mil for $200

Oh my!

 

[Pointman308]

I suppose everyone has a different list of priorities. But for me reliability and durability are definitely in the top 3. Glass is worthless if the scope doesn't track, or hold zero. Mechanically bullet proof is a must in a scope, as is it's ability to withstand punishment and not break. The scope is the weakest link in the whole system. And breakage or loss of zero at a match or hunt of a lifetime is an absolute no go.

So I guess for me, it boils down to reliable, durable, and glass. In that order with glass a very, very distant 3rd. I hunted for 20 years with a $100 Bushnell Sportview and never had a glass issue. So I certainly don't get wrapped around the axle over it these days. That same scope held zero in a saddle scabbard when my horse fell on it, and didn't break when I rolled my ATV on it. No hunt ending issues, ever. That's a good scope.

Your obviously a Burris guy. For a fill in I’m using an illuminated Fullfield E1 3-9x40 with the ballistic reticle. It actually fits the bill pretty good. We will see how long it lasts.

 

[Birddog6424]

It's the logo isn't it. Dead give away. I'm on Burris' shooting team. Which I just re-upped for the 2018 season.

I like a handful of other brands as well. I'm also a Bushnell fan and I have a couple Vortex Razors. The Razor line is excellent, and my Bushnells have treated me very well over the years.

I've never gotten to play with a Fullfield. Hopefully it treats you well. I think an updated version of the 4-14 mil version MTAC with the G2B was on the drawing board for Burris. That would be a decent gig for a SPR optic. But I don't know if that is moving forward or not. My specifications aren't as specific as yours so I would be in the 2-10 camp as others have suggested.

 

[Pointman308]

It's the logo isn't it. Dead give away. I'm on Burris' shooting team. Which I just re-upped for the 2018 season.

I like a handful of other brands as well. I'm also a Bushnell fan and I have a couple Vortex Razors. The Razor line is excellent, and my Bushnells have treated me very well over the years.

I've never gotten to play with a Fullfield. Hopefully it treats you well. I think an updated version of the 4-14 mil version MTAC with the G2B was on the drawing board for Burris. That would be a decent gig for a SPR optic. But I don't know if that is moving forward or not. My specifications aren't as specific as yours so I would be in the 2-10 camp as others have suggested.

A 30mm 2-10x40 with mil/mil covered/ low profile turrets and illuminatation would be absolutely perfect! Oh and maybe a tree type mil reticle.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I bought this particular scope for the same as what the OP wants, but haven't had the chance to try it out. The scope is the Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3-10x40. It is only a 1" tube, no illumination, mil dot., SFP. It weighs just under 17 oz., mil, 16.5 for both. I'm just finishing up an 18" upper to try this out on. It will probably be sitting on a Weaver 20 moa base and in their rings. The only seller used to be Midway right around 350 or so, but I see Natchez has them on sale for 199.99.

Yeah, I know friends don't let friends buy cheap scopes. In a 16" I only need 5 mil to get to 600 and that's all I expect this to be used for with the benefit of the low end for close up.

 

[KM375]

Its a bit expensive, but at 22.6 oz a little over 12 inches the March 3-24 is a good fit and although I started with mine on a bolt gun it has migrated to my MK 12 and stayed there.

http://www.bullets.com/shop/brand_m...mm-scope?src=march&srcpath=/first-focal-plane

 

[Pointman308]

That is the end all. Or their 1-10, but a little out of my league:

 

[Trojan6]

I had similar considerations when recently added glass to my 6.5 Creedmoor lightweight AR10. Went with the Burris XTR2 2-10 and have been very happy with it so far. Blows away my old Mark 4 3.5-10 with M3 turrets in every category except weight. Eyebox is a little tight and getting used to the finer SCR MOA reticle, but think it was a good choice, especially for the price point.

 

[The King]

I was more than delighted with the Nightforce....and for one reason. Reliability. Beating that thing with a hammer will do just about nothing, and the glass is absolutely fantastic.

 

[jLorenzo]

Primary Arms is coming out with some high end optics. Look for Griffin Mil reticle, and a Rgrid version. Also the Higher end Athlon stuff has some good options. Probably not Nightforce but I can be super effective with my 4x14x44 Rgrid, awesome scope for the money.