StaBall Match Testing - 77gr Reloads, Chasing mk262

[NHPiper]

In the quest for a Mk262 duplicate load, I am playing around with the new Wincheste, and since 8208 XBR is impossible to source StaBall Match powder. Early reports indicate that it is very temp stable (less than 0.82fps per degree of F), which is unusual for this type of powder structure.

The two guns being used for the test have the following barrels and recoil systems:

1. PRI Douglas 16" Mk12 Mod H, mid-length gas system, Geiselle 42 carbine buffer spring, and H3 buffer.

2. CLE Bartlein 18" Mk12 Mod O, rifle-length gas system, Sprinco green rifle spring, and Noveske A2 buffer.

Both guns are shot and chronographed suppressed with a Surefire RC2, with data captured on Magneto Speed V2.

The goals for this powder:
1. Fast, able to get mid 2750fps in winter temperatures

2. Temp stable, so that those of us in NH and similar states can use the same load year round without pressure issues in the summer or extreme velocity swings.

3. Easy to source, compared to something like 8208 XBR

4. Accurate is a must. I have slower Varget loads and good 8208 XBR loads that shoot 3/4 MOA out of both guns.

Bonus Goals:
1) Consistent metering, ideally to run from a Dillon 650 powder dispenser versus RCBS Chargemasters or similar

2) Low gas blowback, similar to 8208

As testing begins and continues, I will report progress here in the thread.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Definitely IN for this one.

 

[NHPiper]

Day 1 - 3/4/23, Initial Pressure Test

The first day of testing on was designed to identify maximum pressure for varying powder loads before investing resources into development.

I loaded 10 rounds, 5 for each gun, of the following powder charges with the StaBall Match: 24.8, 25.0, 25.2, 25.4.

Loads we're done in mixed (uniformed) Lake City Brass with CCI 400 small rifle primers, using Sierra 77gr SMK bullets with the OAL matched to Black Hills Mk262 (2.250").

The kestrel data and velocity is below. Good news, there were NO pressure signs in my guns up to 25.4gr and SD looked good (given it was 5 rounds per test). First 5 rounds left to right were the 16" gun.

Next step will be to load 15 rounds for each gun at 25.2, 25.4, and 25.6 to shoot groups and check for velocity again.

 

[NHPiper]

Day 2 - 3/10/23d, Additional Pressure & Initial Accuracy Tests

Loaded up x15 rounds for each of the two guns (30x total) of 25.2gr, 25.4gr, and 25.6gr of the StaBall Match. Unfortunately, I left my chronograph at home and was interrupted by work calls, so I was only able to shoot the 25.6gr and 25.4gr strings through the Mk12. Also, being pressed for time I didn't have a chance to shovel out a trench to shoot prone and had to shoot from a bench, which I am much less comfortable doing.

The same brass, primer, and OAL was used, along with Sierra 77gr SMK bullets. Weather was warmer, see the Kestrel data in the photos.

Good and bad news. The 25.6gr load shot really well, but 2/3 of the brass had serious ejector marks and a few had nearly pierced primers. It looks like 25.6gr is the MAX charge in my Mk12. As a reminder, I had only previously tested up to 25.4gr, with little to no pressure signs in both the Mk12 and SPR. Given the pressure signs at 25.6gr, and in colder weather, I am going to shoot a few of the remaining 15 rounds through the SPR but will likely burn them in the Mk12 and forego that charge.

The 25.4gr charge seemed to shoot well. I had a group open up on me as mirage really set in, which was about 35 rounds in over 15 minutes of shooting. Downside of suppressors.

Group sizes were as follows.

25.6gr StaBall Match:
0.797", 0.544", 0.785"

25.4gr StaBall Match:
0.873", 0.662", 1.164"

Tonight, I will load up another 15-20 rounds at that charge so that I can reshoot it for velocity data tomorrow out of the Mk12 and also get initial accuracy testing/velocity data with the SPR at both the 25.4gr and 25.2gr charges. Weather will be a bit cooler but warmer than Day 1.

 

[semperfireloading]

I think StaBALL Match is not as accurate or high velocity as Accurate 2520, which I believe is superior accuracy, however not temp stable. Pretty much, I would say the brass looked similar on the StaBALL with about .2 grains LESS than the AA2520. I was able to achieve much higher velocity on the Accurate Ball Powder with acceptable brass. I was very careful in prep to make sure all the brass, primer, prep, etc was nearly identical with all the loads. I was sad, because I did PULL 1 shot, with the 25.2 grains StaBALL group with SMK's, but that was the only pull of all the shots on the sheet. That being said, I think a very fine and good groups can be had with acceptable brass around the 25.2 grains area, playing with seating depth. I feel good about that, and I would be totally happy if StaBALL was all I had. That powder, and 2520, are WIDELY available, and not super expensive.
2520 vs StaBALL Match vs SW Match Rifle

 

[NHPiper]

I think StaBALL Match is not as accurate or high velocity as Accurate 2520, which I believe is superior accuracy, however not temp stable. Pretty much, I would say the brass looked similar on the StaBALL with about .2 grains LESS than the AA2520. I was able to achieve much higher velocity on the Accurate Ball Powder with acceptable brass. I was very careful in prep to make sure all the brass, primer, prep, etc was nearly identical with all the loads. I was sad, because I did PULL 1 shot, with the 25.2 grains StaBALL group with SMK's, but that was the only pull of all the shots on the sheet. That being said, I think a very fine and good groups can be had with acceptable brass around the 25.2 grains area, playing with seating depth. I feel good about that, and I would be totally happy if StaBALL was all I had. That powder, and 2520, are WIDELY available, and not super expensive.
2520 vs StaBALL Match vs SW Match Rifle

I have a few pounds of 2520 to play with, however, the temp sensitivity for me is a non starter. I don't want to deal with 100-150fps swings over the year.

I would love to have a load that shot 1/2 MOA consistently. The only load that I found that easily with was Varget. And it is just too slow to push 700+ yards, especially if shooting at night where impact spotting is really hard.

If it shoots 3/4 MOA consistently, I am very happy. That is a 4.5" group at 600 yards and a 6" group at 800 yards, assuming wind is called correctly.

 

[ma smith]

Great post an looking forward to following along!

One of the issues with .223 is sensitivity to primer type/primer quality. If its possible, would be great to test with other primers you may have, but especialy match or brs or 450 with thicker cups.

Cheers

 

[NHPiper]

Great post an looking forward to following along!

One of the issues with .223 is sensitivity to primer type/primer quality. If its possible, would be great to test with other primers you may have, but especialy match or brs or 450 with thicker cups.

Cheers

Feel free to send me some lol.

I don't have any others to test. They may result in some velocity boost, but I'm not sure it would be much more than 1-2%. I guess the advantage is you could potentially get the higher velocity with less of a pressure issues by potentially backing off your powder charge a few tenths of a grain.

 

[ma smith]

Yeah, Its easy for me to spend you money . Tho, It is a shame is so hard now to find primers in stock locally.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I shoot 25.2 of TAC in a load but only in my bolt gun amd with a 75gr bullet. In my AR I have to drop it down a little bit to 24.4 I think it is with the 77smk.

 

[nn8734]

I think StaBALL Match is not as accurate or high velocity as Accurate 2520, which I believe is superior accuracy, however not temp stable. Pretty much, I would say the brass looked similar on the StaBALL with about .2 grains LESS than the AA2520. I was able to achieve much higher velocity on the Accurate Ball Powder with acceptable brass. I was very careful in prep to make sure all the brass, primer, prep, etc was nearly identical with all the loads. I was sad, because I did PULL 1 shot, with the 25.2 grains StaBALL group with SMK's, but that was the only pull of all the shots on the sheet. That being said, I think a very fine and good groups can be had with acceptable brass around the 25.2 grains area, playing with seating depth. I feel good about that, and I would be totally happy if StaBALL was all I had. That powder, and 2520, are WIDELY available, and not super expensive.
2520 vs StaBALL Match vs SW Match Rifle

AA2520 is the way.

My load is 77smk, 25g, R7-1/2 primer LC case 1x fired. Shoots clovers out of my mod 1 (2800-2820 fps) and is good to 700m+. @NHPiper concern is temp sensitivity but would be curious to see that, assuming hr tries it, how temp sensitive it really is in his area (i dont notice much of a difference at all but im in Vegas and almost never shoot in mid summer during the day).

 

[NHPiper]

Day 3 - 3/11/23, Velocity and Accuracy Continues

Warmer today, See Kestrel. Saw really good velocity signs. Both guns seem to like the 25.2gr load although 25.4gr shoots well. Surprisingly, the 25.6gr I had left ran fine without pressure signs in the SPR compared to the solid ejector marks I was getting in the Mk12. 25.2gr seemed to shoot better in the Mk12 whereas 25.4gr had a slight edge in the SPR.

I also brought out some 23.3gr of 8208 XBR to see how velocity and group size compared to the StaBall.

15 round strings, 3x five round groups (25.2gr in the Mk12 was a 20 rounder)

Mk12 DATA:
25.4gr StaBall Match
Ave Velocity of 2775, SD of 16
Groups: 1.038", 1.041", 0.421"
Ave Group: 0.833" (but got lucky on the last group)

25.2gr StaBall Match
Ave Velocity 2747fps, SD of 18
Groups: 0.624", 0.808", 1.256"
Ave Group: 0.896"

23.3gr 8208 XBR
Ave Velocity 2737fps, SD of 8
Groups: 0.781", 0.849", 1.149"
Ave Group: 0.926"

SPR DATA:
25.4gr StaBall Match
Ave Velocity: 2687fps, SD of 12
Groups: 0.902", 0.873", 0.966"
Ave Group: 0.913"

25.2gr StaBall Match
Ave Velocity: 2684, SD of 11
Groups: 0.924", 1.175", 0.975"
Ave Group: 1.024"

Overall thoughts:

Really liking the velocity and SD, wishing this was a 1/2 MOA load. Maybe with some fine tuning it would get there. I am also a better shot with large frame gas guns, not sure how.

Next step will be to do some more accuracy testing with 25.2gr. I plan to run it out of the powder flow of a Dillon 650 to see if I can ditch the Chargemasters to speed up the time.

One other note, I ran the same 8208 load out of my dad's custom Winchester 70 (20" Hart barrel). It shot 1/3 MOA and chronographed at 2737fps with an SD of 8. He also ran 10 rounds of the leftover 25.6gr StaBall Match loads (no pressure issues for him) and it shot 1/2 MOA, velocity of 2753fps but with an SD of 24.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

So, what is your baseline for that barrel then as far as MOA? Seems as though that gun may just be a 3/4" gun and not a 1/2" gun?

 

[NHPiper]

I find that both the Bartlein Mk12 and Douglas SPR are 3/4 MOA consistently. It could be that I'm not the best gas gun shooter. I have a 223AI on a Stiller action that shoots 1/3 MOA all day. I'm consistently capable of 1/2 MOA shooting with most guns, so if I get 3/4 MOA from a small frame gas gun I am generally happy.

I shot 4-6 five round groups out of the Mk12 with the recent Black Hills Mk262 ammo and it was between 3/4 and 1/2 MOA out of the gun for all groups.

I'm not bench shooting and also dealing with some suppressor mirage, although I try to cool it between groups.

 

[huntnh]

The match looks promising 2700 plus is pretty darn good with the heavier bullets. I’m still a varget man in my 223s.

 

[Molon]

So, what is your baseline for that barrel then as far as MOA? Seems as though that gun may just be a 3/4" gun and not a 1/2" gun?

Very few semi-automatic AR-15s can repeatedly produce 1/2 MOA accuracy/precision. Most of the people that claim that their AR-15 shoots 1/2 MOA are making that claim based on some cherry-picked statistically insignificant groups.

Ask someone who claims that they shoot 1/2 MOA with their semi-automatic AR-15 to put 10 shots into 1/2 MOA with their AR-15 and sit back and listen to the excuses fly. To accomplish that task you need a barrel from a premier company such as Krieger, properly assembled quality components, meticulously produced hand-loads and excellent marksmanship skills.

The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from one of my Krieger barreled semi-automatic AR-15s. The group has an extreme spread of 0.406 MOA.

....

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Very few semi-automatic AR-15s can repeatedly produce 1/2 MOA accuracy/precision. Most of the people that claim that their AR-15 shoots 1/2 MOA are making that claim based on some cherry-picked statistically insignificant groups.

Ask someone who claims that they shoot 1/2 MOA with their semi-automatic to put 10 shots into 1/2 MOA with their AR-15 and sit back and listen to the excuses fly. To accomplish that task you need a barrel from a premier company such as Krieger, properly assembled quality components, meticulously produced hand-loads and excellent marksmanship skills.

The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from one of my Krieger barreled semi-automatic AR-15s. The group has an extreme spread of 0.439 MOA.

....

Yeah I know. I was just trying to be polite since he was going to so much trouble to post all the info. Most don't even shoot enough rounds to know real numbers on SD much less a true group size.

My CLE rifle will do it but that's it. No other AR that I have will quite get there.

 

[NHPiper]

Yeah I know. I was just trying to be polite since he was going to so much trouble to post all the info. Most don't even shoot enough rounds to know real numbers on SD much less a true group size.

My CLE rifle will do it but that's it. No other AR that I have will quite get there.

I appreciate that. I am also doing the shooting without a suppressor cover. Like I said, 3/4 MOA is a great spot to be for what I use these for.

I am also not sold on the Bartlein barrel in my Mk12. I have seen the Douglas 16” shoto 1/2 MOA, but I was also running a Mk5 3.6-18 on top versus a NX8 1-8 which has a giant dot in the center that is a few .1 of a mil across.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I appreciate that. I am also doing the shooting without a suppressor cover. Like I said, 3/4 MOA is a great spot to be for what I use these for.

I am also not sold on the Bartlein barrel in my Mk12. I have seen the Douglas 16” shoto 1/2 MOA, but I was also running a Mk5 3.6-18 on top versus a NX8 1-8 which has a giant dot in the center that is a few .1 of a mil across.

The dot makes a big difference when shooting groups, for me anyway. An off-set of a few Mil with your elevation turret will keep your poa clean also, but i often forget to do it myself. A true 3/4 moa AR is pretty dang good anyway.

 

[5RWill]

Tag, those velocity numbers are solid. When I get the progressive here I'll have to put up some 77gr with the mk12.

 

[bobke]

Molon-Are you at liberty to share your 55 BK load details or at minimum, share powder used? Appreciate the performance data you do present, as it’s not just ‘one off’ cherry picked groups, but based on a larger statistical sampling. Keep up the good work.

 

[Molon]

Molon-Are you at liberty to share your 55 BK load details or at minimum, share powder used? Appreciate the performance data you do present, as it’s not just ‘one off’ cherry picked groups, but based on a larger statistical sampling. Keep up the good work.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...he-accuracy-node-detection-technique.6996839/


https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...node-detection-technique.6996839/post-8904498


.....

 

[WillHugh]

To add some additional data points, I did some initial load testing with StaBall today. Rifle is an 18" CLE Wylde rifle gas MK12, OCM5 supressor, LC uniformed brass. Temp was 50°. Five round groups as follows:

25.0 grains:
2702 fps, SD of 10
.55 moa

25.1 grains:
2721 fps, SD of 8
.80 moa

25.2 grains:
2721 fps, SD of 11
.80 moa

25.3 grains:
2716 fps, SD of 18
.58 moa

25.4 grains:
2740 fps, SD of 27
1.39 moa

No pressure signs on any of the charges. I did notice when I was loading them that 25.4 grains was starting to crunch, which is probably why I was getting erratic velocity at that charge weight. Looks like I'll focus some more development around 25.2 and possibly play with seating depth a bit.

The groups all opened up some on my second go-round when I pulled the magnetospeed off the gun, but that may have been me.

Overall the powder seems promising. It meters nicely out of my Uniflow, but is filthy compared to 8208xbr, so I'm not sure that it's converted me. Nice that it's at least available.

 

[Franko]

I'm a little late to this, but did you consider/test Hodgdon Benchmark? It's an extreme powder and seems to have good availability.

I ask because I am on the same road and have some Benchmark around that I think I might try rather than buying the Staball Match.

 

[WillHugh]

I'm a little late to this, but did you consider/test Hodgdon Benchmark? It's an extreme powder and seems to have good availability.

I ask because I am on the same road and have some Benchmark around that I think I might try rather than buying the Staball Match.

We've been working our way through different powders to see what gives the best results. Haven't done anything with Benchmark, but would be interested to hear what you find. My 8208xbr load is giving me right around 2,700 fps and extremely good accuracy, so when it becomes available again that will likely be what I settle on. Staball seems to be giving similar velocity results, just haven't had it long enough to refine a load.

 

[nn8734]

I'm a little late to this, but did you consider/test Hodgdon Benchmark? It's an extreme powder and seems to have good availability.

I ask because I am on the same road and have some Benchmark around that I think I might try rather than buying the Staball Match.

Test the benchmark and start a new thread with the results.

 

[Franko]

We've been working our way through different powders to see what gives the best results. Haven't done anything with Benchmark, but would be interested to hear what you find. My 8208xbr load is giving me right around 2,700 fps and extremely good accuracy, so when it becomes available again that will likely be what I settle on. Staball seems to be giving similar velocity results, just haven't had it long enough to refine a load.

Bought Benchmark a while back because XBR always seems to be in short supply. I'll try to post something once I get to testing but I have a bit of a backlog to clear.

 

[DLS]

I have been using benchmark with 62gr and lower weight range and it’s good stuff along with N133

 

[ma smith]

I'm a little late to this, but did you consider/test Hodgdon Benchmark? It's an extreme powder and seems to have good availability.

I ask because I am on the same road and have some Benchmark around that I think I might try rather than buying the Staball Match.

Its arguably too fast for heavy bullets, stopping around 73gr in the Bergar Manual. Benchmark is NOT listed for 77gr by either Sierra or Berger.
Not that you can't test it, but approaching mk262 velocities, its probably at risk to hit pressure early, so keep an eye out.

 

[mikeshaw2]

Its arguably too fast for heavy bullets, stopping around 73gr in the Bergar Manual. Benchmark is NOT listed for 77gr by either Sierra or Berger.
Not that you can't test it, but approaching mk262 velocities, its probably at risk to hit pressure early, so keep an eye out.

View attachment 8107267

NOW I remember why I wanted N140! Got an alert it was in and hemmed and hawed for a day or so and it was gone

I'm not specifically trying to replicate M262, but I do want accurate loads

M

 

[Molon]

NOW I remember why I wanted N140! Got an alert it was in and hemmed and hawed for a day or so and it was gone

I'm not specifically trying to replicate M262, but I do want accurate loads

M

VihtaVuori N140 is an excellent choice for producing accurate loads with the 77 grain SMK fired from a semi-automatic AR-15. The 10-shot group pictured below was fired prone off a bipod from my Lothar Walther barreled AR-15. The group has an extreme spread of 0.54 MOA. N140 has produced standard deviations as low as 4 FPS for 10-shot strings fired from a 20" Colt barrel.

....

 

[ma smith]

Now, if we can get Staball Match could yield that kind of groups !

 

[NHPiper]

Day 4 - 3/29/23

Today I ran 50 rounds of the 25.2gr StaBall Match charge through the Mk12 and fed all powder from the Dillon 650 Powder Drop (DPP). I set the DPP to the intended weight, but found that I got a handful of throws when I checked every 3-4 rounds of up to 25.4gr.

I also removed the crimp from the bullets in the last stage.

Weather was warmer today, around 50' with a slight headwind. Removing the crimp made a big difference.

GOOD NEWS
I shot ⁸ five-round groups and accuracy is clearly better. I have been traveling for 2 weeks and I watched my group size shrink from 1 MOA to an easy 3/4 MOA or less as I shot. The paper is cluttered, but the black pem has the Center to Center from today.

Groups averaged 0.784" even with my early warmup groups at 1 MOA. Pulling the first 3 groups out, group size shrank to 0.650" with a low of 0.425".

Velocity was spicy at 2790 with an SD of 16 based off a test of 15 rounds at the end of the firing string.

BAD NEWS
20 of the 50 rounds had bad enough ejector swipes that I wouldn't reuse the brass and 1 of them had a nearly pierced primers. I am attributing this to the lack of consistency with the DPP.

Next Steps:
I loaded another 20 rounds on the DPP but backed the charge throw off to 25.1gr, although I found this really means that there are a few in there closer to 25.3gr. I bumped the OAL from 2.252" to 2.257" to see if seating the bullet out farther from the powder to avoid compression would help with the pressure spikes.

I also loaded up 28 rounds of 25.2gr using the Chargemasters to throw the powder and kept the initial OAL at 2.252".

We will see how these run. I am hoping to make it back to the range later today to check. It would be ideal if I could load just on the DPP as it is a out twice as fast as running to Chargemasters side by side.

 

[Molon]

Day 4 - 3/29/23

Velocity was spicy at 2970

Is that a typo?

....

 

[NHPiper]

Is that a typo?

....

Yup corrected to 2790fps

 

[towerofpower93]

Day 4 - 3/29/23

Today I ran 50 rounds of the 25.2gr StaBall Match charge through the Mk12 and fed all powder from the Dillon 650 Powder Drop (DPP). I set the DPP to the intended weight, but found that I got a handful of throws when I checked every 3-4 rounds of up to 25.4gr.

I also removed the crimp from the bullets in the last stage.

Weather was warmer today, around 50' with a slight headwind. Removing the crimp made a big difference.

GOOD NEWS
I shot ⁸ five-round groups and accuracy is clearly better. I have been traveling for 2 weeks and I watched my group size shrink from 1 MOA to an easy 3/4 MOA or less as I shot. The paper is cluttered, but the black pem has the Center to Center from today.

Groups averaged 0.784" even with my early warmup groups at 1 MOA. Pulling the first 3 groups out, group size shrank to 0.650" with a low of 0.425".

Velocity was spicy at 2790 with an SD of 16 based off a test of 15 rounds at the end of the firing string.

BAD NEWS
20 of the 50 rounds had bad enough ejector swipes that I wouldn't reuse the brass and 1 of them had a nearly pierced primers. I am attributing this to the lack of consistency with the DPP.

Next Steps:
I loaded another 20 rounds on the DPP but backed the charge throw off to 25.1gr, although I found this really means that there are a few in there closer to 25.3gr. I bumped the OAL from 2.252" to 2.257" to see if seating the bullet out farther from the powder to avoid compression would help with the pressure spikes.

I also loaded up 28 rounds of 25.2gr using the Chargemasters to throw the powder and kept the initial OAL at 2.252".

We will see how these run. I am hoping to make it back to the range later today to check. It would be ideal if I could load just on the DPP as it is a out twice as fast as running to Chargemasters side by side.

Have you slicked up your Dillon powder measure? Post #14 in this thread has a technique that helps get more consistency with non-ball powders in the Dillon PMs.

Slickin' Up a Dillon PM

 

[ZA206]

Looking back through my notes on Staball Match and the 77 SMK shot out of my AR with a 20" 4-groove Bartlein 1:7.7 twist with a CLE chamber:

LC match prepped brass + Rem 7.5 @ COL = 2.260"

23.6 = 2619 fps -SD 13
23.9 = 2630 fps -SD 25
24.1 = 2675 fps -SD 16
24.3 = 2684 fps -SD 4
24.5 = 2718 fps -SD 12
24.7 = 2740 fps -SD 12
24.9 = 2762 fps -SD 13
25.2 = 2795 fps -SD 9
25.4 = 2814 fps -SD 10
25.6 = 2839 fps -SD 12

25.4 and above were a little too hot and brass was getting beat up. There was no shift in impact in the 24.1 through the 24.7 grain groups. Groups shifted a little upwards at 24.9 and moved up a full MOA at 25.2, then came back down at 25.4 and 25.6.

I have more tests set for 24.3, 24.6 and 24.7 grain groups doing seating depths at each of 2.250", 2.255" & 2.260".
I think this barrel prefers the 77 SMK at 2.255" COL, as other seating depth work had better groups and smaller SD's at that COL, so moving forward, most of my testing will be there.

-ZA

 

[MK20]

In the quest for a Mk262 duplicate load, I am playing around with the new Wincheste, and since 8208 XBR is impossible to source StaBall Match powder. Early reports indicate that it is very temp stable (less than 0.82fps per degree of F), which is unusual for this type of powder structure.

The two guns being used for the test have the following barrels and recoil systems:

1. PRI Douglas 16" Mk12 Mod H, mid-length gas system, Geiselle 42 carbine buffer spring, and H3 buffer.

2. CLE Bartlein 18" Mk12 Mod O, rifle-length gas system, Sprinco green rifle spring, and Noveske A2 buffer.

Both guns are shot and chronographed suppressed with a Surefire RC2, with data captured on Magneto Speed V2.

The goals for this powder:
1. Fast, able to get mid 2750fps in winter temperatures

2. Temp stable, so that those of us in NH and similar states can use the same load year round without pressure issues in the summer or extreme velocity swings.

3. Easy to source, compared to something like 8208 XBR

4. Accurate is a must. I have slower Varget loads and good 8208 XBR loads that shoot 3/4 MOA out of both guns.

Bonus Goals:
1) Consistent metering, ideally to run from a Dillon 650 powder dispenser versus RCBS Chargemasters or similar

2) Low gas blowback, similar to 8208

As testing begins and continues, I will report progress here in the thread.

Please see my posts in the Staball Match thread here as I have done most of this testing already.

Bottom line is:

It is tem stable. Very.

It meters within a 10th or 2 on the Dillon.

It achieved 2820 FPS at Hodgdon max book load with Hornady 75 gr out of a 18" WOA.


It is GTG. Buy and use as a better replacement for 8208.

 

[Franko]

Please see my posts in the Staball Match thread here as I have done most of this testing already.

Bottom line is:

It is tem stable. Very.

It meters within a 10th or 2 on the Dillon.

It achieved 2820 FPS at Hodgdon max book load with Hornady 75 gr out of a 18" WOA.


It is GTG. Buy and use as a better replacement for 8208.

Whelp, 2 pounds inbound. Better get this tested before the word gets out and it becomes scarce...

 

[MK20]

Look at staball 6.5. It's not scarce because it is a ST Marks powder and not foreign made.

 

[NHPiper]

Day 5 - 3/31/23 Final Testing

I did the Dillon powder measure upgrades recommended by @towerofpower93 and polished the drum, raceways, and lubed with some car wax. End result was throws with +/- 0.1gr. I set the powder throw to 25.1gr and loaded 100 rounds.

Velocity was 2746fps with an SD of 13 and ES of 50fps at about 50' outside. That will work for me, and based on the Kestrel is the difference in elevation of about 0.1mils at 650 yards, which works for me.

I shot 9x five-round groups. I had 4 called flyers that I botched the second I pulled the trigger. Average group size was 0.706" which was fantastic, with a few groups about 0.5" or less. I was messing with my zero and so was dancing around the bull.

I am still getting some flattened primers on my loads and a few ejector marks of the hundred I shot, so I will monitor closely during summer months.

But for now, this is my load. I had no issues hitting 3" plates at 300 yards using a 1mil holdover and hitting clay pigeons at 500 yards with a 3mil holdover.

Attached are the pics documenting the trip. Appreciate @MK20 doing a ton of work on this as well including temp testing!

And already ordered an 8lbs tub. I have a .223AI coming shortly that runs great on Varget and I am looking forward to switching it over to this powder.

 

[MK20]

Yeah.

This stuff is phenomenal. I want it to become very popular so it never goes out of production.

I want it to be like 4064. I think it has the performance potential to be at least that good.

 

[mikeshaw2]

may have to try some Match

How's it compare to N140 and N540?

M

 

[verdugo60]

If you’re getting flattened primers at 50 degrees why not drop the charge more?

I have learned it’s just better to stay far away from pressure. Moisture, dirty chamber, hot barrel, hot weather, ammo in hot vehicle will all increase pressure. So if you’re getting flattened primers in 50 degrees it’s going to be popping primers in 90-100 degrees.

Good test though, I have a bunch of XBR 8208, think I’ll polish my Dillon thrower l, find a mild load and do a bunch of lake city/ 75 HPBT stuff to have on hand.

Good luck, thanks for all the info.

 

[NHPiper]

If you’re getting flattened primers at 50 degrees why not drop the charge more?

I have learned it’s just better to stay far away from pressure. Moisture, dirty chamber, hot barrel, hot weather, ammo in hot vehicle will all increase pressure. So if you’re getting flattened primers in 50 degrees it’s going to be popping primers in 90-100 degrees.

Good test though, I have a bunch of XBR 8208, think I’ll polish my Dillon thrower l, find a mild load and do a bunch of lake city/ 75 HPBT stuff to have on hand.

Good luck, thanks for all the info.

I may, going to watch carefully. I ran charges up to 25.4 with the same flattened primers, just more ejector marks, so there is certainly wiggle room. I may drop another .1gr or seat the bullet s few thousandths longer as well.

 

[NHPiper]

I took my Mk12 with this load out to 1120 yards yesterday! I started at 870 and after 2 rounds to get the wind call right, I had repeating hits on target all day. Load is good to go.

Mt Washington in the background behind the range in the second photo.

 

[MTRecon]

Trying for a MK262 style load I worked up to this yesterday with my Aero Precision 16".

Don't have 77s so I used 75gr RMR, LC 2021 OFB, Rem 7 1/2 and 25.8 of Tac.

I have 8208XBR but haven't tested it yet.

No optics on the Aero so no way to get groups at a meaningful distance.

I did work up to this same load in my 26" Wilson WOA Varmint and it easily does 1" @ 200 yards, velocity averaged 3041. Lower charges were more accurate.

Labradar results with Aero 16".

 

[Blacktail 8541]

2800+out of a 16in. Pressure has to be in the 70k +

 

[MTRecon]

Western Powders published load data claims 62,145.

Used the softer 7 1/2 instead of mag primers to watch for any signs of pressure during work up but none in two different barrels.

The Labradar stats were read at the muzzle...my other chronographs set @ 15 feet would reduce the velocity somewhat. I'll dip into the memory card and see what the loads did @ 15 feet.

 

[Blacktail 8541]

Any ejector marks or cratering of the primers?