Gunsmithing Starrett 135A Alternative?

[M8541Reaper]

What kinds of pocket levels do you guys like that are accurate and consistent? Preferably made in USA but I’m open to others.

Like an idiot, I ordered a Starrett 135A pocket level from Amazon and the thing is shit. If you flip or rotate it, it shows it’s absolutely lack of consistency. It seems like it is built well…until you actually go to use it.

I’m pretty much stuck with Amazon because most places won’t ship to APOs, even if they give the option during checkout.

Note:
I’m not looking to discuss the use of levels with/on rifles so let’s all just holster and place our hands on the table. Just looking for a quality pocket level to add to the toolbox.

 

[Captain_Slackbladder]

Had one of those off Amazon too, same issue, read differently in the two orientations, utter junk. Starrett weren't interested either they couldn't even be bothered to answer emails.

I use the Stabila pocket level, have always found them 100% reliable and they are about quarter the price of the Starrett.

 

[Easy_E]

I have the L shaped 136 by Starrett that works well but has to held on narrow surfaces . Wonder if your 135A is a knock off ?
I need to get a straight one like that to replace an old Stanley I'm using now.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Had one of those off Amazon too, same issue, read differently in the two orientations, utter junk. Starrett weren't interested either they couldn't even be bothered to answer emails.

I use the Stabila pocket level, have always found them 100% reliable and they are about quarter the price of the Starrett.

Thanks, I’ll check em out. That’s a shame about the company not caring (I didn’t bother contacting them). A buddy just told me about the Milwaukee pocket level as well.

I have the L shaped 136 by Starrett that works well but has to held on narrow surfaces . Wonder if your 135A is a knock off ?
I need to get a straight one like that to replace an old Stanley I'm using now.

It probably is a knock off. I just requested a replacement, so I’ll give em a second chance. If it’s trash, I’m going to do a refund. Regardless, I’m going to pick up the Stabila and Milwaukee PLs to try.

 

[Yondering]

It probably is a knock off. I just requested a replacement, so I’ll give em a second chance. If it’s trash, I’m going to do a refund. Regardless, I’m going to pick up the Stabila and Milwaukee PLs to try.

I’m starting to get really frustrated with Amazon for this; a lot of their American branded tooling is knock off junk sold by the Chinese, and it’s getting very hard to figure out which is which until you get it in hand. (I know that a lot of American branded tooling is made in China now but I’m talking about the actual knock off stuff that’s even worse.)

I had better luck just going to the hardware store and trying their levels until I found one that reads true. I think it’s a Stanley, maybe.

I’ve also had decent results just using my iPhone; iMetal Toolbox is what I use. Verify it the same as you would a bubble, in my case it’s pretty satisfactory for a lot of jobs. I am a machinist so there are times when it’s not good enough, but most of the time it is. Hope that helps.

 

[M8541Reaper]

I’m starting to get really frustrated with Amazon for this; a lot of their American branded tooling is knock off junk sold by the Chinese, and it’s getting very hard to figure out which is which until you get it in hand. (I know that a lot of American branded tooling is made in China now but I’m talking about the actual knock off stuff that’s even worse.)

I had better luck just going to the hardware store and trying their levels until I found one that reads true. I think it’s a Stanley, maybe.

I’ve also had decent results just using my iPhone; iMetal Toolbox is what I use. Verify it the same as you would a bubble, in my case it’s pretty satisfactory for a lot of jobs. I am a machinist so there are times when it’s not good enough, but most of the time it is. Hope that helps.

Same man. My wife ordered me a set of the noise cancelling Bose headsets from the Bose store on Amazon…turned out to be counterfeit. It is getting all too common with Amazon now.

I’ve been to every hardware store they have here within an hour of my house and it’s all absolute trash…and way overpriced. I think these people consider Stanley to be equivalent to Snap On with the prices they charge for the three Stanley items they carry lol.

I’ll check out that app in the meantime. Thanks man.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Fuck Amazon. Find a level that you want, have it shipped to my house. I’ll mail it to your APO for free.

 

[JAS-SH]

I have the same Starrett level, also from Amazon. I saw exactly what you saw. First thought was how could this be? it's just a freaking bubble and gravity....

So, I tested it, and tested it, and then did some more testing. I was very disappointed. Finally I tested it against my laser tested, less expensive Johnson torpedo level by carefully lining up the Starrett on top of the machined magnetic edge of the Johnson, dead center with its middle bubble.

The Johnson was tested (and was exactly on the money) with the help of the laser guy who measured my then emptied kitchen room for a new kitchen with one of them monstrously expensive self leveling laser heads. Turns out nothing in the kitchen room is level! Not the walls, the floors nor, the ceiling! Not that you can tell just by looking. Most everything in homes these days is built to 1/4-inch tolerances, if you're lucky!

My findings - The Starrett is actually pretty accurate for what it is. BUT, only on the "machined?" bottom surface. It does not work on any other of the enclosure's facets. Also, the liquid is more viscous and the bubble is very small with more daylight between the lines than my other levels. Any little angle deviation from first measurement gives a very slight measured difference. Pain in the ass but accurate.

So after my initial disappointment, it's pretty accurate in it's own way so I kept mine. I figured that it would cost me 3 times as much to get certified accuracy.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Fuck Amazon. Find a level that you want, have it shipped to my house. I’ll mail it to your APO for free.

I appreciate that man. I actually just tasked out my dad to find me the Milwaukee and Stabila next time he’s out and to ship em over.

I have the same Starrett level, also from Amazon. I saw exactly what you saw. First thought was how could this be? it's just a freaking bubble and gravity....

So, I tested it, and tested it, and then did some more testing. I was very disappointed. Finally I tested it against my laser tested, less expensive Johnson torpedo level by carefully lining up the Starrett on top of the machined magnetic edge of the Johnson, dead center with its middle bubble.

The Johnson was tested (and was exactly on the money) with the help of the laser guy who measured my then emptied kitchen room for a new kitchen with one of them monstrously expensive self leveling laser heads. Turns out nothing in the kitchen room is level! Not the walls, the floors nor, the ceiling! Not that you can tell just by looking. Most everything in homes these days is built to 1/4-inch tolerances, if you're lucky!

My findings - The Starrett is actually pretty accurate for what it is. BUT, only on the "machined?" bottom surface. It does not work on any other of the enclosure's facets. Also, the liquid is more viscous and the bubble is very small with more daylight between the lines than my other levels. Any little angle deviation from first measurement gives a very slight measured difference. Pain in the ass but accurate.

So after my initial disappointment, it's pretty accurate in it's own way so I kept mine. I figured that it would cost me 3 times as much to get certified accuracy.

hopefully I just had a one off that was bad (or a fake) and the replacement coming will be better. This one wasn’t even centered up in the housing and would shift when rotated 180 and placed in the same exact spot. Tested on top of another level and a Badger DL (so I know the surface I was rotating on was at least flat).

As for nothing in houses being level… 1/4” tolerances these days would be considered unobtainable

 

[J-Ham]

Fuck Amazon. Find a level that you want, have it shipped to my house. I’ll mail it to your APO for free.

Came here to say the same thing... You've got options, broski.

On topic, I know nothing about pocket levels. If you find one at a regular store though, I'll pick it up for you & on its way it'll be.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Came here to say the same thing... You've got options, broski.

On topic, I know nothing about pocket levels. If you find one at a regular store though, I'll pick it up for you & on its way it'll be.

 

[fdkay]

Mitutoyo?

 

[308pirate]

Buying at Amazon?

El Oh El

@M8541Reaper here you go: https://www.penntoolco.com/starrett-machinists-improved-levels/

 

[lariat]

Buying at Amazon?

El Oh El

@M8541Reaper here you go: https://www.penntoolco.com/starrett-machinists-improved-levels/

This. In spades.

 

[JAS-SH]

I appreciate that man. I actually just tasked out my dad to find me the Milwaukee and Stabila next time he’s out and to ship em over.

hopefully I just had a one off that was bad (or a fake) and the replacement coming will be better. This one wasn’t even centered up in the housing and would shift when rotated 180 and placed in the same exact spot. Tested on top of another level and a Badger DL (so I know the surface I was rotating on was at least flat).

As for nothing in houses being level… 1/4” tolerances these days would be considered unobtainable

I decided to add a couple of pictures showing how sensitive this level is. My torpedo level shows my work bench pretty much level. It better! I used it to level the bench when I installed it!

Below are two pictures of the Starrett. The top image shows it laying on the bench and showing the bench a bit off quilter. But, how much is it off? Well for the bottom image I put a 4x6 index card under the Starrett's right edge and it went the other way. How sensitive is that? I pulled my calipers out. The card is .008 inches thick! I then pulled the index card off and it went back to the same as image one. This level seems to be on a whole other level! Pun intended .

 

[M8541Reaper]

I decided to add a couple of pictures showing how sensitive this level is. My torpedo level shows my work bench pretty much level. It better! I used it to level the bench when I installed it!

Below are two pictures of the Starrett. The top image shows it laying on the bench and showing the bench a bit off quilter. But, how much is it off? Well for the bottom image I put a 4x6 index card under the Starrett's right edge and it went the other way. How sensitive is that? I pulled my calipers out. The card is .008 inches thick! I then pulled the index card off and it went back to the same as image one. This level seems to be on a whole other level! Pun intended .

Nice lol. My vial was way off center (had a sliver between the center bar and black line). I should have taken pictures.

I like how compact and hefty/solid it feels when using it.

 

[LeftyJason]

I decided to add a couple of pictures showing how sensitive this level is. My torpedo level shows my work bench pretty much level. It better! I used it to level the bench when I installed it!

Below are two pictures of the Starrett. The top image shows it laying on the bench and showing the bench a bit off quilter. But, how much is it off? Well for the bottom image I put a 4x6 index card under the Starrett's right edge and it went the other way. How sensitive is that? I pulled my calipers out. The card is .008 inches thick! I then pulled the index card off and it went back to the same as image one. This level seems to be on a whole other level! Pun intended .

Flip it around end for end. Does it read the same?

 

[JAS-SH]

Flip it around end for end. Does it read the same?

Very good point! Did not think of that. Went back to the bench and tried it. Mirror image is identical (whew!). Can take pictures but that will have to wait until tomorrow. BBQ is ON .

What I think is this. They made this level sooo sensitive I jumped to the conclusion that it had to be in error. It is not as long as I use the bottom facet. Someting is going on inside this thing that makes it so accurate. And I ain't taking it apart to find out what that is!

 

[Bigfatcock]

Did you check it on a truly flat and level surface? When using precision items, everything adds up.

 

[candyx]

Mitutoyo 960-613 Precision Level has high precision longitudinal and transverse vials that make it possible to check or level surfaces. This model has a .00024"/12" Sensitivity with +/- .00017" Accuracy.

 

[JAS-SH]

Did you check it on a truly flat and level surface? When using precision items, everything adds up.

Well, If this thing can indeed measure a .008 inch variance I really don't think there is ANYTHING in my 60 year old house that comes even close! I'll put some thought into it though. I might be able to rig something up, but then again it would have to be something that is level to .008???

I don't have any other levels that measure that. Do you? I'm all ears .

 

[JAS-SH]

Mitutoyo 960-613 Precision Level has high precision longitudinal and transverse vials that make it possible to check or level surfaces. This model has a .00024"/12" Sensitivity with +/- .00017" Accuracy.

Imagine so for $550 bucks! Very cool though. If I ever win the lottery I could use it to test the Starrett......

 

[308pirate]

Well, If this thing can indeed measure a .008 inch variance I really don't think there is ANYTHING in my 60 year old house that comes even close! I'll put some thought into it though. I might be able to rig something up, but then again it would have to be something that is level to .008???

I don't have any other levels that measure that. Do you? I'm all ears .

Need a granite surface plate and sine plate

 

[Waorani]

This is a level (a little big for your pocket though).

 

[Average guy]

Buying at Amazon?

El Oh El

@M8541Reaper here you go: https://www.penntoolco.com/starrett-machinists-improved-levels/

Have helped machine many a gear case with a 98. Damn good piece of equipment

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

You don’t need a granite plate or any fancy shit. Put the level on something flat. Turn the level 180 degrees. If it reads the same, the level is “calibrated” and will work just fine.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

And if you need something larger, I’ve got a Starrett 98 that’s twelve inches long I’d part with for cheap. And I’ll ship to an APO

 

[JAS-SH]

This is a level (a little big for your pocket though).

View attachment 7756654

Holy mother! .00005 on a bubble level ! I think I'm fine with the .008, which is really .004, from bubble edge to bubble center when all is said and done and it's a $38 one, which I bought so I can put it on top of 1913 rails and then vise clamp the rifle barrel for scope mounting. Wonder how much that thing costs!

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Holy mother! .00005 on a bubble level ! I think I'm fine with the .008, which is really .004, from bubble edge to bubble center when all is said and done and it's a $38 one, which I bought so I can put it on top of 1913 rails and then vise clamp the rifle barrel for scope mounting. Wonder how much that thing costs!

$1100

https://www.grainger.com/product/STARRETT-Master-Precision-Level-3ACH1

 

[Waorani]

The Starrett Master Precision Level is pricey. Picked mine up on ebay years ago for ~ $300; but overkill for most stuff. My go to levels for most things around the shop are SPI 360 and 3600 digital levels. They are almost pocket size. Looks like Mitutoyo may have bought them now as I see identical Mitutoyo 360 & 3600 levels.

Mitutoyo Digital Protractor, 6in 950-317 | Zoro

Order Mitutoyo Digital Protractor, 6in, 950-317 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

 

[1moaoff]

Mitutoyo pocket level... and done!

 

[308pirate]

You don’t need a granite plate or any fancy shit. Put the level on something flat. Turn the level 180 degrees. If it reads the same, the level is “calibrated” and will work just fine.

EL OH EL

Tomorrow I'm going to pitch all our metrology shit in the recyvling dumpster

 

[nikonNUT]

The Starrett Master Precision Level is pricey. Picked mine up on ebay years ago for ~ $300; but overkill for most stuff. My go to levels for most things around the shop are SPI 360 and 3600 digital levels. They are almost pocket size. Looks like Mitutoyo may have bought them now as I see identical Mitutoyo 360 & 3600 levels.

Mitutoyo Digital Protractor, 6in 950-317 | Zoro

Order Mitutoyo Digital Protractor, 6in, 950-317 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

But they are a God send for leveling machines. Had a project where I had to pull my lathe (Kingston HD 24x160) out and line up a 6 footer to hold an extra steady rest and had to get everything square and level the ram. Had to re-level when I pushed it back in place. I really wished I'd had something in the 300 inch range. Good times!

 

[JAS-SH]

Flip it around end for end. Does it read the same?

As mentioned last evening I went ahead and took some flipping pics this morning. On another note I finally found a perfectly level surface in my house!! When we did the new kitchen we had an 8-foot island installed with a fancy stone top. IT'S PERFECTLY LEVEL!!! Yay!

Here are the flipping pics. I took them on one of my kitchen cutting boards, which sits on top of my perfectly level island top. The cutting board is close to perfect level but no cigar. Flipping the level makes no difference in the result....

 

[strikeeagle1]

I use the Starrett's for their small dimensions; "trust but verify". This little $30 digital level with a magnetic-base is great for small work.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Update:

So I received my replacement Starrett today (no idea how it arrived so quickly) and it looks completely different than the first one. Packaging is different, build quality seems better (vial is actually pretty much centered), consistent when flipped 180, and it reads true with my other levels.

The first one had to be a counterfeit or made on a Friday afternoon.

I still have the Stabila and Milwaukee coming, which will be cool to try out. Maybe in a few years I’ll stop being a boomer and try one of those fancy electronic ones.

Thanks for the advice everyone.