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Stateless is the way to go. Change my mind...
- Thread starter The D
- Start date
You and humans are not able to be civil without a governing function. I don't need any recommendations. You are just a ignorant troll. Go watch some more Star Trek.
My wife hasn't ever stopped. They have actually improved over the years. My wife has went from 240 down to 130 while I was deployed to Germany last year. She surprised me by coming out at Christmas. I walked past her 4 times at the airport before she yelled out to me. She thought it was funny. I couldn't believe my eyes. She also works. We share dinner duty and picking up kids. She has taken care of me for the past 6 weeks since my surgery and even gave me baths when i couldn't do it myself. And she has put up with my issues from deployments. 10yrs going strong as fuck.I was married once.
Not anymore.
Not sure why so many women stop that on the wedding day.
magical food that kills sex drive and makes a woman gain 20- 30 lbs?
wedding cake.....
oh yeah, that being right when you were dating and engaged? Ends right then too...
In theory, I like the idea of anarcho-capitalism, but then I also understand that humans are basically fecal matter that can walk, so I know that in practice it just doesn’t work. People can’t even be trusted to park properly when the lines are marked.
The reasons most of the ancient civilizations you mentioned fell is because they didn’t have an efficient means of organizing to defend their property or resources from attack from a larger Power that was organized. When an aggressor like England came around they just squabbled with one another over what to do or who would do it until they were flattened.
The prosperity of an anarchist region typically gets reduced to if you view people as basically good or basically evil, I think it’s more complicated than that. people only want good for themselves and are willing to do evil to get it if needed. You can see that with all these riots and looting, people find a way to justify Bad behavior after the fact so they can make themselves feel good that they didn’t hurt anybody. “Those stores all have insurance, so they can take a hit” does anybody stop and think what that does to the insurance company and it’s employees? No because on the surface they don’t have to feel bad and they don’t dig any deeper because it starts to hurt; no ownership, no responsibilities, no problems.
My opinion, so it isn’t worth the pixels it’s shown on, you need to have governments with elected leaders, but they need to be close enough to you and easy enough to recall for unconstitutional behavior And they need to have term limits not exceeding 8 years in office. I think our country would work best if the majority of the decision making and taxation happened at the state level, with federal offices existing to keep national defense and transportation effective and efficient And maybe perform a few checks and balances on the the states. All other functions should be handled by the states. If you don’t like the way one state does it, move to another one more to your liking. As taxpayers flee a state because their policies aren’t working and the taxes are oppressive, the state will either realize they are driving off their citizens or go bankrupt.
Over a period of 20-50 years, there would be enough experiments with education, road replacement, healthcare, and all the others mentioned that states would probably find a happy medium that worked for their region of the country. Our population has grown to accept that big cities are the way of the future and that the rest of the country exists to support them, and that people who live inthe supporting regions dont deserve a say in what happens nationally, hence the democrats desire to get rid of the electoral college and other progressive ideas like dissolving the senate, large urban areas know that those two functions are the only thing stopping them from dominating the country in a true democracy rather than the beautiful constitutional democratic republic that all of us red blooded independent types love so much.
What people in San Francisco,Manhattan, Chicago, Seattle, and DC think is best for the country should not dictate what happens in Milan, TN, or Ismay, MT, and urbanites seeing no useful function for an AR-10 , should not keep an Alaskan who needs fast and accurate firepower on a moose or bear from having the means to defend or feed themselves. We need to stop looking at ancient failed cultures for the right way forward, and we need to stop looking at other countries with different demographics and populations than ours for what works best. We have to fix Us, sometimes that means you need to make friends with a liberal and work on convincing them why your ideas are better rather than just trying to “own” or “dominate” them in an argument.
The reasons most of the ancient civilizations you mentioned fell is because they didn’t have an efficient means of organizing to defend their property or resources from attack from a larger Power that was organized. When an aggressor like England came around they just squabbled with one another over what to do or who would do it until they were flattened.
The prosperity of an anarchist region typically gets reduced to if you view people as basically good or basically evil, I think it’s more complicated than that. people only want good for themselves and are willing to do evil to get it if needed. You can see that with all these riots and looting, people find a way to justify Bad behavior after the fact so they can make themselves feel good that they didn’t hurt anybody. “Those stores all have insurance, so they can take a hit” does anybody stop and think what that does to the insurance company and it’s employees? No because on the surface they don’t have to feel bad and they don’t dig any deeper because it starts to hurt; no ownership, no responsibilities, no problems.
My opinion, so it isn’t worth the pixels it’s shown on, you need to have governments with elected leaders, but they need to be close enough to you and easy enough to recall for unconstitutional behavior And they need to have term limits not exceeding 8 years in office. I think our country would work best if the majority of the decision making and taxation happened at the state level, with federal offices existing to keep national defense and transportation effective and efficient And maybe perform a few checks and balances on the the states. All other functions should be handled by the states. If you don’t like the way one state does it, move to another one more to your liking. As taxpayers flee a state because their policies aren’t working and the taxes are oppressive, the state will either realize they are driving off their citizens or go bankrupt.
Over a period of 20-50 years, there would be enough experiments with education, road replacement, healthcare, and all the others mentioned that states would probably find a happy medium that worked for their region of the country. Our population has grown to accept that big cities are the way of the future and that the rest of the country exists to support them, and that people who live inthe supporting regions dont deserve a say in what happens nationally, hence the democrats desire to get rid of the electoral college and other progressive ideas like dissolving the senate, large urban areas know that those two functions are the only thing stopping them from dominating the country in a true democracy rather than the beautiful constitutional democratic republic that all of us red blooded independent types love so much.
What people in San Francisco,Manhattan, Chicago, Seattle, and DC think is best for the country should not dictate what happens in Milan, TN, or Ismay, MT, and urbanites seeing no useful function for an AR-10 , should not keep an Alaskan who needs fast and accurate firepower on a moose or bear from having the means to defend or feed themselves. We need to stop looking at ancient failed cultures for the right way forward, and we need to stop looking at other countries with different demographics and populations than ours for what works best. We have to fix Us, sometimes that means you need to make friends with a liberal and work on convincing them why your ideas are better rather than just trying to “own” or “dominate” them in an argument.
I doubt you'll make any headway with them.
Human society, just like ape society, and many other animal groups, always will have some kind of "leader"/ "Ruler" / "Government" by whatever name you want to call it.
Just look at that whole "CHAZ" BS... oh great you got your "free" and "anarchy" state....... Right... and who rules CHAZ... Oh right a brutal warlord with a gang of his armed thugs.... I fail to see how that is any kind of an improvement HA!
Even those who claim to be "Proper Anarchists" eventually start talking about rules, and enforcement and who does the enforcement and before long... yep government....
While a lot has gone wrong with the American system of government as it got corrupted over especially the last 120 years, it would be hard for anyone to argue that despite it's flaws and some serious issues that had to get resolved and others that need to be resolved. Our current system of government enabled the county in a very short time to make a giant leap in the betterment of mankind and in the USA people don't realize how good they actually have it.
The problem we are facing is that our republic has essentially been corrupted into a democracy of mob rule and once the mob rule takes over, it's really hard to wrest power back away from the mob. Especially when so few of the good folks are willing to get down in the political trenches and work hard in the dirty business of politics and fund raising and such where you have to work full time to keep things on track.
IF the good folks spent as much time / money / energy / effort / discussion / unity on fixing things politically and were willing to stand together and put in a couple decades of long hard political work, things could be changed for the better.
Found a few articles getting a little more in depth to what a totally privatized legal system could look like.
mises.org
The Enterprise of Customary Law | Mises Institute
Our modern reliance on government to make law and establish order is not the historical norm.
Congrats to your wife on her progress, that’s awesome
....noooo
Might as well keep this lively
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America | The Libertarian Institute
In Congress, July 4, 1776. When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and…
libertarianinstitute.org
Hope everyone had a great Independence Day, and kept all your digits. Maybe some day we can celebrate our independence from d.c.
You know Dorothy (I"m assuming that's what the D stands for), we have guns because people are shit and even shit people don't react well to headshots on them.
Might clue you in on a couple things if you think on it a tad.
(Disclaimer - I've not read any other post in this thread so if someone else has said the same thing - good on yer).
Might clue you in on a couple things if you think on it a tad.
(Disclaimer - I've not read any other post in this thread so if someone else has said the same thing - good on yer).
before then would you mail me all your assets well I think i am more worthy of them then the government they will just sell it off for pennies on the dollar and allowing others to dictate what you will or wont do is about the same as giving all your stuff to the goverment so of the three options i am still the best one to me anyway . I'll be waiting for my new property love getting new stuff its like christmas all over again .
Startup Societies Network: Don't Argue. Build.
www.startupsocieties.org
Home
reimagining civilizationwith floating cities Seasteading means building floating societies with significant political autonomy. Nearly half the world’s surface is unclaimed by any nation-state, and many coastal nations can legislate seasteads in their territorial waters.
www.seasteading.org
A few interesting resources on real world stateless/very limited gov projects. Just some food for thought
Do You Hate the State? | Mises Institute
The abolitionist would blister his thumb pushing a button that would abolish the state immediately.
Good article on limited state v anarchism
www.lewrockwell.com
Buchanan and Anarchism - LewRockwell
The economist James Buchanan, who along with Gordon Tullock founded the public choice school of economics, shares with Murray Rothbard a trait rare among his fellow economists. Like Rothbard, he is interested in political philosophy. He doesn’t agree with Rothbard’s anarchism, and I’d like to...
www.lewrockwell.com
No, I want no part of any power struggle. And I don’t want anyone else to be a part of it either, at least not any that I can’t opt out of voluntarily
You are right about one thing though. I do need to read more rothbard. But, who do you think my avatar is?
Edit to add; not only do I need to read more Rothbard, I think everyone needs to read more Rothbard.
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I’ll just transfer this post back here to not sidetrack the Hiroshima thread.
You’re assumption abut human nature is just that, assuming that there’s no other way humans can interact except aggressively. Even though almost nobody lives their life like that day-to-day. It’s easy to refute, which I’ve done before. But the more peaceful and prosperous societies are the ones with freer markets that leave people the fuck alone. An easy example of this is in Africa and it’s two countries that are right next to each other. Zimbabwe (shit-hole country) and Botswana (fastest growing economy in Africa), care to take a guess which is more peaceful?
The national defense argument is just as unoriginal, just like the argument about “the roads”. It can actually be answered with a question.
If our neighborhood was under attack(not such a stretch right now), do you think we could find a way to defend ourselves? Whether that’s through our own guerilla warfare, or pooling our own money/resources and hiring private security, or some other scenario that the neighborhood arrives at together.
And even this assumes that a limited gov, hyper-productive society that doesn’t meddle in over countries’ affairs will be a constant target.
You’re a child. People live like that a few air miles from where you’re probably sitting right now. You have no idea how people in the urban ghettos live. Why do you think they vote against their own rights and for Democrat machine politics year after year? Pretending people are all moral and just is the flip side of a communist/democrat believing everyone is a criminal (because they themselves are). Using Africa to prove your point is beyond retarded! Have you ever fucking been to Africa? Holy shit! I do believe that Botswana is probably one of the least corrupt countries in Africa, but that is also a function of being one of the most sparsely populated countries, and most of it is brutally hot desert that is uninhabitable by anyone but bushmen. But, I digress...
I’m not trying to be original. Seriously? I want to live in Galt‘s Gulch with all the brilliant, moral people. I don’t want ANYONE, much less some filthy, communist politician telling me how to live or what to believe. Why you idiots can’t seem to compromise and have a libertarian domestic policy with a Spartan foreign policy I will never know. Why you must apply this theory to people and cultures it doesn’t fit is beyond me, but this idiocy dooms this ideology as being at all viable or acceptable to people living in the real world. Some people do not deserve liberty because they will not take responsibility. The world is made up of deserving and undeserving people. Choosing to build an ideology around one or the other is what’s stupid.
That only makes sense 200 years ago. The world moves too fast now. Citizen soldiers can’t react fast enough. We need professionals who are vigilant, hard, and ready to fight upon orders. True libertarianism is a fantasy, and a fatal one at that.
My perfect world is a Republican majority with a libertarian minority to keep them honest and in check domestically, but who can be swept aside in matters of national security and conflict. I‘m a classical liberal. I believe in small unobtrusive government for citizens, but one capable of protecting that liberty With overwhelming force. Libertarians think that happens by magic. I wish I were still that innocent.
Stolen. In a Republic the common defense is a legitimate use of government power. It is pure fantasy to believe that there is no such thing as bad actors, or that libertarian weakness and fecklessness does not invite aggression, nay, it ensures it.
Then again, I think the income tax is unconstitutional (notwithstanding the 16th Amendment) and evil. So, spending the money from tarrifs and commerce on the military is elementary.
Then again, I think the income tax is unconstitutional (notwithstanding the 16th Amendment) and evil. So, spending the money from tarrifs and commerce on the military is elementary.
One more time. Do I have any recourse if your socialized army starts doing some shit I don’t agree with? I’m not concerned with your hypothetical scenarios where “the common good” is the highest ideal that everyone always strives towards. That, to me, sounds like pure fantasy
Nothing ensures corruption and inefficiency more than the lack of a profit/loss mechanism to keep an entity honest
God, Guns and the Government: A Paper to Send Your Pastor - The Stream
Editor’s Note: This article is significantly longer than what is usually published on The Stream, but we encourage you to take time to read it in its entirely. The right to bear arms as stated in the Second Amendment has...
stream.org
Good, but long, article solidifying gun ownership from a Christian perspective.
New Evidence Indicates Police Provoked Violence In Kenosha | The Libertarian Institute
Serious violence unfolded in Kenosha Tuesday night during protests over the shooting of Jacob Blake. The violence mentioned below, however, was not between police and protesters. It was captured on video and it was between citizens. Two people were killed and a third victim was taken to hospital...
libertarianinstitute.org
Interesting twist in the Kenosha story
OP - Can you put some parameters on how we get to the stateless society?
- Did a genie grant you the wish while keeping human nature and residents the same?
- Did society struggle to achieve the state (not .gov state, but status) you describe?
- Did the US balkanize and an area was carved out where ancaps all moved to?
As long as we are talking hypotheticals, may I share a meandering I’ve had recently?
Major English speaking nations:
America
Canada
England, Scotland, Ireland
Australia
New Zealand
South Africa
Singapore
(Am I missing others?)
Lets recognize that each of the countries has some level of internal conflict with political friction and factions seeking power.
Perhaps that could be remedied with a treaty where you can sign up for a citizenship swap in a country more politically aligned to your ideals.
Being that America has a more conservative culture than all other countries (guns, healthcare, etc), let all the “right wing whack jobs” of those countries apply for citizenship swap with a US citizen that applies for citizenship swap in their country.
Countries can determine if they want to import extra likeminded people so it doesn’t have to be 1:1.
Governments would financially help facilitate moving of personal goods and employers would be required to permit remote work for six months while other employment was sought in the new country. It’s a heavy handed one time rule that would quickly sunset but would be necessary to make it work.
After a year (or two) you do not have citizenship in your country of origin. You need to apply for a passport to go back.
I think this puts more likeminded people in the same regions and solidifies geopolitical stability for years to come. At least in America.
Major English speaking nations:
America
Canada
England, Scotland, Ireland
Australia
New Zealand
South Africa
Singapore
(Am I missing others?)
Lets recognize that each of the countries has some level of internal conflict with political friction and factions seeking power.
Perhaps that could be remedied with a treaty where you can sign up for a citizenship swap in a country more politically aligned to your ideals.
Being that America has a more conservative culture than all other countries (guns, healthcare, etc), let all the “right wing whack jobs” of those countries apply for citizenship swap with a US citizen that applies for citizenship swap in their country.
Countries can determine if they want to import extra likeminded people so it doesn’t have to be 1:1.
Governments would financially help facilitate moving of personal goods and employers would be required to permit remote work for six months while other employment was sought in the new country. It’s a heavy handed one time rule that would quickly sunset but would be necessary to make it work.
After a year (or two) you do not have citizenship in your country of origin. You need to apply for a passport to go back.
I think this puts more likeminded people in the same regions and solidifies geopolitical stability for years to come. At least in America.
Did they post the location of this pizza party yet , I getting tired of eating frozen pizza and rubbing one out on the weekends.
A basement of a pizzeria in Washington D.C. Apparently they’ll have hotdogs too.
Read Federalist 29 and Federalist 46 in reference to your thoughts about maintaining a standing army.
Damn near all your questions, pontificating, whatever could probably be answered if you read the Federalist Papers. You are not asking questions that haven't been asked and addressed before.
As long as we are talking hypotheticals, may I share a meandering I’ve had recently?
Major English speaking nations:
America
Canada
England, Scotland, Ireland
Australia
New Zealand
South Africa
Singapore
(Am I missing others?)
Lets recognize that each of the countries has some level of internal conflict with political friction and factions seeking power.
Perhaps that could be remedied with a treaty where you can sign up for a citizenship swap in a country more politically aligned to your ideals.
Being that America has a more conservative culture than all other countries (guns, healthcare, etc), let all the “right wing whack jobs” of those countries apply for citizenship swap with a US citizen that applies for citizenship swap in their country.
Countries can determine if they want to import extra likeminded people so it doesn’t have to be 1:1.
Governments would financially help facilitate moving of personal goods and employers would be required to permit remote work for six months while other employment was sought in the new country. It’s a heavy handed one time rule that would quickly sunset but would be necessary to make it work.
After a year (or two) you do not have citizenship in your country of origin. You need to apply for a passport to go back.
I think this puts more likeminded people in the same regions and solidifies geopolitical stability for years to come. At least in America.
I’m all for like-minded individuals segregating themselves in a particular region. As long as you trade peacefully with your neighboring communities and don’t initiate aggression on them
The first point is not something that would be a good idea. Most people in this country are too afraid of the idea of true liberty for that to work
The second point is something I’ve said before. I’ll happily fight alongside everyone here to restore a constitutional minarchy in this country. Once that’s achieved we can argue about privatizing everything else
The third point would make for a great experiment. It’s happened, to a lesser degree, in plenty of places with good results, see Sandy Springs, GA or an internet search for “special economic zones” for an example. It’s also happening in a little different way in other parts of the world. People are trying to acquire land to secede from a governments rule and of course are facing monumental hurdles. The two examples that come to mind, and that I’ve stated previously, are Liberland and The Seasteading Institute.
Yes, I’m aware of the federalist arguments for adopting the constitution. What it amounts to, imo, is; people reaching for power that are saying “Don’t worry, we have this piece of paper that will keep us from being despots. We promise we’ll be good boys and girls, honest.” That ruse worked back then just as effectively as it does now.
I’m more interested in the dissenting arguments from the anti-federalists and Lysander Spooner
I'm also more interested in the anti-federalist writings than the federalist writings. I think the federalists had some noble intentions but the anti-federalists had foresight to tamper any agreeableness to otherwise nice intentions. The antis were people that understood human nature better than their counterparts. I also don't think the Bill of Rights persuaded them to relent and sign the DoI. I think it was a bit more like Milton Freedman and the income tax withholding. "It's going to happen anyway, so let's make this efficient". They saw the writing on the wall and demanded something that would delay the inevitable for generations to come.
Milton said that contribution to society was his greatest regret. If the antis could see America today I think they would have went to war with the other states instead of signing.
Unfortunately, hindsight is 20/20
Indeed it would be. Or hanging them on the white house lawn
When Church Leaders Fail the Faithful - LewRockwell
I have written on Christian topics for LewRockwell.com previously, but I want to address a disturbing trend that is affecting Christians of many denominations, and this is that both the leadership and individual pastors and priests have at best surrendered and at worse profaned their faith in...
www.lewrockwell.com
Hopefully nobody sees this starting in their church. Plan accordingly if you do, no matter how hard the decision may be
Making Politics More Like a Free Market | The Libertarian Institute
Free-market capitalism is the most successful economic system in history, as it has brought unprecedented prosperity and powered vast improvements in all aspects of human well-being. However, in spite of capitalism’s success, the application of economic ideas to politics is limited—which is very...
libertarianinstitute.org
Abolishing the Police in the Anarchist Tradition | The Libertarian Institute
The tragic murder of George Floyd at the hands of the Minneapolis Police Department has provoked a national conversation about police—their role in society, their protection from accountability, the unique danger they pose to civil society. That conversation has begun to pose a radical question...
libertarianinstitute.org
Nearly missed this thread... Pizza AND blowjobs....
Two unsolicited truths (according to me):
There is no bad pizza, only "better" pizza
and
No chick is ever ugly with your dick in her mouth.
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Ep. 1754 The 45 Minutes Your Undecided COVID Friends Need to Hear | Tom Woods
This is the single best presentation I've made on COVID and the government response. I genuinely do not see how someone can hear this information and continue
tomwoods.com
Couple more interesting articles with some good parallels to conservatism
tomluongo.me
isi.org
About Two Years ... - Gold Goats 'n Guns
Two years is a short time in human terms but a lot can happen to one's mindset during it when resolving the implications of Libertarianism
tomluongo.me
Why Not Anarchy? - Intercollegiate Studies Institute
If the only escape from Leviathan is radical decentralization, will conservatives become Tory anarchists?
isi.org
