Rifle Scopes Steiner failure

[vno.helix]

Bought a Steiner 3-12x56 from Europtic approx 1 month ago. Yesterday the mount came in and the scope was mounted on a Sig 556 DMR rifle. Took her to the range today. Fired 150 rounds XM193 and 50 rounds Black Hills OTM 77 grain. Groups where all over the place, could not figure out why so I checked the mount, all solid, no issues there. Decided to go back to 50 yards and start from scratch. I reached for the Side focus knob and boy; Come to find out that the side focus has, over the period of 200 rounds, gone from nice and tide to extremely sloppy, wobbling and lose with a lot of lateral play on it. I am talking a LOT of play, not even sure what is keeping it on there right now. That was the end of my range day.

I called Europtic hoping they would take care of me and send me a replacement. I have only one more week at home before my next tour and won't be able to shoot for several months once I leave. However; They referred me to Steiner. I guess that is the way it goes. So I called Steiner. They told me I could send it in for repair. I told the gentleman at Steiner that I would not be happy with a repair since I bought the scope new and would like a replacement scope instead. He told me to send it in and they would look at it. Damned, I thought all German products was superior. My S&B is flaw-less and bomb proof. I was hoping Steiner would be right up there. This does not seem to be the case. I am very disappointed.

I understand that no matter how good your product, there will eventually be some kind of issue down the line. Maybe this is one of the most rare failures that has never happened before and will never happen again within the Steiner line of products. If so, I should really give them a change to rectify this. In the end, how one deals with issues like these is what defines you as a "quality" manufacturer.
I hear Steiners customer service seems to be excellent. I hope they are. Will keep you updated on how they decide to handle this.

Anyone have any experience with Steiner?

Thanks

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

As several threads have noted, even S&B scopes can break. Steiner will fix it.

 

[LawnMM]

Send it in and let them look at it, that's what has to happen. Or should they take you at your word and just send you a new scope? I will tell you right now that's not going to happen with any company. Unfortunately people try to take advantage of companies by abusing the products to get new ones or refunds.

If you want help, send it in. If its busted they will make it right. Calling companies out in threads like this is not the way to get the ball rolling. It sounds like you called and they said send it in... so what, exactly, are you so pissed about?

 

[TimK]

Infant mortality is a problem in many industries. It's typically a very small percentage and it's typically not indicative of overall quality. From my experience building widgets for air and space craft, it's an undertorqued fastener or a part assembled backwards or some such trivial issue. Once rectified by the manufacturer, the item is identical in quality to a new, correctly assembled unit right off the line. Myself, my confidence would not be shaken if Steiner wanted to repair instead of replace. To the contrary, your repaired unit will likely receive even more scrutiny than the typical unit off the line. You'll likely end up with a scope more thoroughly tested than is the norm.

Don't panic.

 

[jbell]

Infant mortality is a problem in many industries. It's typically a very small percentage and it's typically not indicative of overall quality. From my experience building widgets for air and space craft, it's an undertorqued fastener or a part assembled backwards or some such trivial issue. Once rectified by the manufacturer, the item is identical in quality to a new, correctly assembled unit right off the line. Myself, my confidence would not be shaken if Steiner wanted to repair instead of replace. To the contrary, your repaired unit will likely receive even more scrutiny than the typical unit off the line. You'll likely end up with a scope more thoroughly tested than is the norm.

Don't panic.

I agree with this completely...

 

[delixe]

Bought a Steiner 3-12x56 from Europtic approx 1 month ago. Yesterday the mount came in and the scope was mounted on a Sig 556 DMR rifle. Took her to the range today. Fired 150 rounds XM193 and 50 rounds Black Hills OTM 77 grain. Groups where all over the place, could not figure out why so I checked the mount, all solid, no issues there. Decided to go back to 50 yards and start from scratch. I reached for the Side focus knob and boy; Come to find out that the side focus has, over the period of 200 rounds, gone from nice and tide to extremely sloppy, wobbling and lose with a lot of lateral play on it. I am talking a LOT of play, not even sure what is keeping it on there right now. That was the end of my range day.

I called Europtic hoping they would take care of me and send me a replacement. I have only one more week at home before my next tour and won't be able to shoot for several months once I leave. However; They referred me to Steiner. I guess that is the way it goes. So I called Steiner. They told me I could send it in for repair. I told the gentleman at Steiner that I would not be happy with a repair since I bought the scope new and would like a replacement scope instead. He told me to send it in and they would look at it. Damned, I thought all German products was superior. My S&B is flaw-less and bomb proof. I was hoping Steiner would be right up there. This does not seem to be the case. I am very disappointed.

I understand that no matter how good your product, there will eventually be some kind of issue down the line. Maybe this is one of the most rare failures that has never happened before and will never happen again within the Steiner line of products. If so, I should really give them a change to rectify this. In the end, how one deals with issues like these is what defines you as a "quality" manufacturer.
I hear Steiners customer service seems to be excellent. I hope they are. Will keep you updated on how they decide to handle this.

Anyone have any experience with Steiner?

Thanks

I owned an S&B PMII 5-25x56 and a Steiner Military 5-25x56. Of the 2, the S&B was the only one that required service when the erector went kaflooey, locking up the mag ring.
Sorry to hear about your experience, but anything made by man can break.

 

[delixe]

Infant mortality is a problem in many industries. It's typically a very small percentage and it's typically not indicative of overall quality. From my experience building widgets for air and space craft, it's an undertorqued fastener or a part assembled backwards or some such trivial issue. Once rectified by the manufacturer, the item is identical in quality to a new, correctly assembled unit right off the line. Myself, my confidence would not be shaken if Steiner wanted to repair instead of replace. To the contrary, your repaired unit will likely receive even more scrutiny than the typical unit off the line. You'll likely end up with a scope more thoroughly tested than is the norm.

Don't panic.

Exactly. Your scope will be subject to a high level of examination during a repair.

 

[Philotimos]

TimK could not have said it better but I'm sure that doesn't make you feel anymore comfort. Unfortunately you were the small % that was dealt a bad beat. The best thing to do is get past it now and see how well they resolve the issue. Hopefully they can go above the norm and keep you informed while on tour.

 

[jsimonh]

Send it in and let them look at it, that's what has to happen. Or should they take you at your word and just send you a new scope? I will tell you right now that's not going to happen with any company. Unfortunately people try to take advantage of companies by abusing the products to get new ones or refunds.

If you want help, send it in. If its busted they will make it right. Calling companies out in threads like this is not the way to get the ball rolling. It sounds like you called and they said send it in... so what, exactly, are you so pissed about?

Maybe I missed something, but the op's first post doesnt come off as pissed to me. Seems like a guy who is disappointed and is working towards a solution.

Good luck on tour, I'm sure you'll have a fixed up Steiner waiting and ready to go when you get back.

 

[LawnMM]

Maybe I missed something, but the op's first post doesnt come off as pissed to me. Seems like a guy who is disappointed and is working towards a solution.

Good luck on tour, I'm sure you'll have a fixed up Steiner waiting and ready to go when you get back.

Comes off like he's pissed and taking shots at the company in a couple places and when asking for help that's not great form and there's been too much of it on here lately. Nothing wrong with being disappointed, or asking for help. When we throw the little jabs in too that's what wrecks the lines of open communication we enjoy with Hide vendors.

 

[BCP]

Pretty sure they are assembled by Burris here in the USA so they should be able to fix it within a couple weeks or send a replacement.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

The new Steiner T series is produced here in Colorado the M series was made in Germany. Steiner has a great warranty so send it in and they will fix it. I met the guys who fix then and I guarantee they will go over it with a fine tooth comb and make sure it is 100%. They also will replace it it it can't be fixed.

Every decent company from S&B to Colt to AI to Glock has a warranty department for a reason. All the above make great products but every now and then a bad one slips through. Getting on a public forum to throw shit around about a company who has not yet done you wrong and offered to fix your scope is not the right way to handle a situation like this. If they did not take care of you I would understand you getting on here and complaining.

I have a warranty on my car that I had to use and I never got online smearing that company because I took it in and they fixed it.... Why should it be any different for a scope? Get it fixed and don't complain unless they don't take care of it. Doing it like this you come across as a cry baby or a troll working for another company trying to smear another companies good name.

 

[yej0001]

Send it to Burris/Steiner for service. My experience with their service has been very smooth and no issue. They will fix it no question asked

I just returned a Razor HD 5-20 Gen 1 (from recent sale) after comparing to my steiner 4-16 (from the earlier sale). At dust, the 16x powered Steiner was much brighter than the 20x powered Razor Gen 1 when I looked at subjects 500-1000 yd away. I am now convinced by what I have read: a less powered scope with superior glass is better than a higher powered scope with less superior glass

Don't get me wrong. Razor is a superb scope at recent sale price, but the German brass is probably still a notch up from top Japanese glass. Gen II Razor was said to be a leap in quality, which I yet have an opportunity to test

 

[Voltron]

OP, I bought the same scope and I'm dealing with the same issue. I sent my scope in to Steiner and it took 5 weeks to get back to me. Upon inspection of the "repaired" scope I am very unhappy since the scope is still not in proper working order. This past week I've been talking with Steiner to get my scope sent back in and have the scope examined, and what a headache it has been. The scope has more issues than when I sent it in the first time. There are 3 major problems including the illumination not functioning at all. I know Steiner scopes are supposed to be alpha level scopes, but I'm rather frustrated with their incompetent repair and warranty department.

Long and short of my experience with Steiner so far has been poor. Unless they really put the effort out to make my experience right, I'll will sell off my scope and go with a brand that I can trust and rely on like Vortex, SWFA, or NightForce.

 

[vno.helix]

OP, I bought the same scope and I'm dealing with the same issue. I sent my scope in to Steiner and it took 5 weeks to get back to me. Upon inspection of the "repaired" scope I am very unhappy since the scope is still not in proper working order. This past week I've been talking with Steiner to get my scope sent back in and have the scope examined, and what a headache it has been. The scope has more issues than when I sent it in the first time. There are 3 major problems including the illumination not functioning at all. I know Steiner scopes are supposed to be alpha level scopes, but I'm rather frustrated with their incompetent repair and warranty department.

Long and short of my experience with Steiner so far has been poor. Unless they really put the effort out to make my experience right, I'll will sell off my scope and go with a brand that I can trust and rely on like Vortex, SWFA, or NightForce.

For obvious reasons; Sorry to hear Voltron and thank you for sharing your experience.

I will continue to make an serious effort to post my experience. This is not "bashing", this is a story. A story of an expensive scope falling apart in the lightest use possible. A story of how Steiner will choose to deal with it. This could be a good story or a bad story for Steiner. The ball is in their park now. I just report the progress for your knowledge and to help other potential buyers to make educated and well informed decisions. That is what I look for on this forum when I am selecting my next purchase, and that is what I return to those looking to buy.

My deepest apologies to those whom's feelings I have hurt by posting this. I did not mean to upset you. It might be a useless post to you. It might help others, you don't know and neither do I. If and I am saying "IF" indeed Voltron's experience is the "standard" approach of Steiner in dealing with issues, then everyone should know this. By god, I wish I had.

Regards,

 

[Arc Light]

For obvious reasons; Sorry to hear Voltron and thank you for sharing your experience.

I will continue to make an serious effort to post my experience. This is not "bashing", this is a story. A story of an expensive scope falling apart in the lightest use possible. A story of how Steiner will choose to deal with it. This could be a good story or a bad story for Steiner. The ball is in their park now. I just report the progress for your knowledge and to help other potential buyers to make educated and well informed decisions. That is what I look for on this forum when I am selecting my next purchase, and that is what I return to those looking to buy.

My deepest apologies to those whom's feelings I have hurt by posting this. I did not mean to upset you. It might be a useless post to you. It might help others, you don't know and neither do I. If and I am saying "IF" indeed Voltron's experience is the "standard" approach of Steiner in dealing with issues, then everyone should know this. By god, I wish I had.

Regards,

Thanks for sharing, hopefully Steiner will do you right. I too would be unhappy with a one month old "fixed" scope. I've read too many stories of "repaired" scopes coming back the same or worse. I would want a brand new replacement, but you and I are in the minority here it would seem. As for hurting peoples feelings here, don't think twice about it. Unless you post glowing reviews of the popular products of the day, which Steiner currently is, expect to be criticized and called stupid shit like a "troll" unless you toe the line. Some people act as if they have a vested interest in these companies they vehemently defend. Good luck and let us know how Steiner resolves this.

 

[BCP]

For obvious reasons; Sorry to hear Voltron and thank you for sharing your experience.

I will continue to make an serious effort to post my experience. This is not "bashing", this is a story. A story of an expensive scope falling apart in the lightest use possible. A story of how Steiner will choose to deal with it. This could be a good story or a bad story for Steiner. The ball is in their park now. I just report the progress for your knowledge and to help other potential buyers to make educated and well informed decisions. That is what I look for on this forum when I am selecting my next purchase, and that is what I return to those looking to buy.

My deepest apologies to those whom's feelings I have hurt by posting this. I did not mean to upset you. It might be a useless post to you. It might help others, you don't know and neither do I. If and I am saying "IF" indeed Voltron's experience is the "standard" approach of Steiner in dealing with issues, then everyone should know this. By god, I wish I had.

Regards,

I don't blame you for being a bit ticked off. That same scope interests me as well, I'd like it for my M1A but am not gonna buy it if they don't take care of lemons in a timely manner. I'll just buy Nightforce instead.

 

[haldir]

mine is starting to have issues as well, hopefully they will take care of it.

 

[vno.helix]

mine is starting to have issues as well, hopefully they will take care of it.

Same issue with the focus knob, internals coming lose or different issues? Keep us updated please.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

This post helps nobody. Not a single person really benefits from you complaining about them offering to fix it. What to do to get your scopes of X, Y or Z brand repaired is common knowledge and just plain common sense. If they can't read the warranty card or website and make a phone call they are beyond help and definitely won't be able to comprehend your helpful post.

Nobody, not S&B, not Nightforce, not Vortex is just going to take your word for it and ship you out a new scope. Let them fix it and keep your trap shut unless they do you wrong. It's posts like this that bring everyone out of the wood works to start brand bashing. I don't care if it's Steiner, Glock, AI or any of the other many firearms related businesses out there.

I've had to send a pistol that is well known as one of the most reliable combat handguns in the world in for service and I never started a thread to bitch or "help others" I just sent it in and they did me right by fixing it in a timely manner and sent it back to me. Same with my car dropped it off and got it fixed under warranty didn't start threads in the car forums.

Threads like this need to stop. When I first joined this site years ago it seemed like I never had to make threads because the majority of stuff on here was legitimate helpful information and a quick search usually revealed the answer to my question. Now it seems every other post is a repeated question or someone bitching about something or someone else and it's tough to find legitimate information.

 

[oniak]

I personally think threads like this are helpful, as long as they remain civilized. Nothing wrong with shooters sharing their experience with a particular product. Before forums like this, end users were at the mercy of manufacturers. Forums like this put a little bit of pull into the hands of the end user.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I do agree there is nothing wrong with sharing information and I completely agree about getting the word out there when a company does us wrong. If a company flat out tells you to pound sand when you ask for a reasonable repair under a warranty all of us in the shooting world should hear about it to save others from dealing with a bad company that doesn't stand behind their products. When a company offers to fix it no questions asked like on this case it's a non issue and the world doesn't need to know unless you are intent on spreading rumors.


The problem is these threads spread like wild fire anymore and a simple problem that was easily fixed turns into a rumor that X company has crap products. Then threads like this start costing the company money in lost sales. Next, we lose manufacturer support on this site from people like Martin who does his best to solve problems with a simple PM. Then the next step is lawyers get involved and someone is getting sued. Then prices go up to cover those costs and we all get to pay more.

Tell me how this thread is helpful other than maybe making the OP feel better that he vented on a public forum that has a representative from the company in question who posts here? I think it causes more harm to all of us than good.

 

[vno.helix]

I had a problem with my brand new BMW. BMW drove a replacement car to my house for me to use, took my car, fixed the problem and swapped cars again.

I had a feeding problem with my kahr PM45. Kahr emailed me an overnight shipping label. A week later the gun was back in my hands, fixed.

I had a problem with my Springfield Armory 1911. They emailed me a shipping label. 10 days later the gun was back in my hands, problem solved.

I had a problem with my 15 inch Macbook pro within 90 days of purchase. Apple replaced it on the spot for a new one.

The point? All things can break and everyone has a different story to tell. However, and this is personal for me, I understand you might feel different; It is not the issue with the product that is the problem by itself (regardless of the initial disappointment) it is the way customer service deals with you. Any of the above, regardless of the issues in the past, I would buy again, just for that reason. They are on my list of trusted, proven and advocated manufactures who in my experience (read: MY experience) have proven to care about their product, their reputation and their customers. And for that I gladly pay the higher price.

Steiner:

So far: Steiner emailed me a warranty form to fill out which stated that turnaround times average 4-6 weeks unless busy during hunting season. Longer delays can be expected than.They did not include a shipping label but had me ship the scope back at my own cost with the promise they would look at it. At this time it is too early to judge, like I said previously, I will give them a fair change to make it right. However, at this time they are nowhere near showing the customer care I have experience from other manufactures and their products. And for a manufacturer of that level, in name and price, I find that a disappointing start. I do hope the experience changes as this process moves forward. I will surely keep you updated. I do this for those that care. If you are one of the people that does not care. Great for you. You must have had a great experience with Steiner and I look forward to your review or, most likely, do not own any of their products at all. Either way; your squeaking is not contributing any value towards this tread. Neither does it to Steiner and their customer care. Steiner will have to do that for themselves with their actions. And if they do, I will make sure to report that as well. In fact, I hope they do well and will be happy to report so.

And for the record, to this point, just by this tread, we have identified possibly 3 people with similar issues regarding the same product. One of them having had disappointing experiences with the solution offered by Steiner. For anyone looking to purchase in the future, this might be valuable information. And forums like these, and any other similar forums (bimmerforums, VW forums, Appleforums, Karhforum to name a couple) are for many of us the ONLY resource available. That is why I believe sharing the good AND the bad is important. For many of us that is the ONLY way to make an educated decision of what to spend our money on.

Thank you and have a great weekend

 

[Rob01]

I do agree there is nothing wrong with sharing information and I completely agree about getting the word out there when a company does us wrong. If a company flat out tells you to pound sand when you ask for a reasonable repair under a warranty all of us in the shooting world should hear about it to save others from dealing with a bad company that doesn't stand behind their products. When a company offers to fix it no questions asked like on this case it's a non issue and the world doesn't need to know unless you are intent on spreading rumors.


The problem is these threads spread like wild fire anymore and a simple problem that was easily fixed turns into a rumor that X company has crap products. Then threads like this start costing the company money in lost sales. Next, we lose manufacturer support on this site from people like Martin who does his best to solve problems with a simple PM. Then the next step is lawyers get involved and someone is getting sued. Then prices go up to cover those costs and we all get to pay more.

Tell me how this thread is helpful other than maybe making the OP feel better that he vented on a public forum that has a representative from the company in question who posts here? I think it causes more harm to all of us than good.

Where were you in all the Vortex PST threads?

 

[918v]

And why haven't you inquired about the OP's employment?

Damn.... I don't know what you do for a living but damn hook a brother up with a job! If you have a henny are on your third high end Zeiss and have a near perfect Nightforce F1 you must be making a small fortune! I am not sure I want to know how many top end rifles you have because I may start to feel very inadequate....

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

And why haven't you inquired about the OP's employment?

I never really inquired about yours I just made a statement to hook me up so I could afford to own over $10k worth of optics too.

 

[Mrhyne]

I am a 4th person to have this same issue occur.
Here is my story: My parallax came loose on me when i was sighting my 6.5 grendel in for a hunt during the first of November that i have planned. I had the scope on an armalite ar10 in 308 with all JP goodies on it including a large muzzle brake. My scope was only a month old when this happened and had a total of 30 shots fired on it. I was very disappointed when i discovered the issue. I called Burris/Steiner this past Monday and got the scope in the mail because I flew out to China on Tuesday and will not be back until Oct 17th. I addressed that i needed the scope back for my hunt at the end of the month. He still said it would be 4-6 weeks. I am OK with that. I have other scopes and rifles i can use for the hunt.

The reason i bought the scope in the first place: I purchased a steiner 5-25 MXi with MSR reticle which I am really pleased with. Eurooptic made a deal with Steiner to sell off all of their discontinued military scopes. Paying 1099.00 for a 3-12x56 was too good of a deal to pass up.

I am OK with Steiner fixing the problem even though the scope is practically brand new. The Scope was for sale at a great price only because they have discontinued the model. the Mxi and Txi (I believe those are the correct product lines) are out and have better turret designs. the only upset I have with the entire situation is that i purchased that scope to hunt with and I will not have it back by then.

Also, I think these threads are important to provide information in anyway. Opinions are important also.

I have been following the new Steiner Tactical Scope thread that will be made in USA and i am extremely excited about this scope in 5-25.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I had a problem with my brand new BMW. BMW drove a replacement car to my house for me to use, took my car, fixed the problem and swapped cars again.

I had a feeding problem with my kahr PM45. Kahr emailed me an overnight shipping label. A week later the gun was back in my hands, fixed.

I had a problem with my Springfield Armory 1911. They emailed me a shipping label. 10 days later the gun was back in my hands, problem solved.

I had a problem with my 15 inch Macbook pro within 90 days of purchase. Apple replaced it on the spot for a new one.

The point? All things can break and everyone has a different story to tell. However, and this is personal for me, I understand you might feel different; It is not the issue with the product that is the problem by itself (regardless of the initial disappointment) it is the way customer service deals with you. Any of the above, regardless of the issues in the past, I would buy again, just for that reason. They are on my list of trusted, proven and advocated manufactures who in my experience (read: MY experience) have proven to care about their product, their reputation and their customers. And for that I gladly pay the higher price.

Steiner:

So far: Steiner emailed me a warranty form to fill out which stated that turnaround times average 4-6 weeks unless busy during hunting season. Longer delays can be expected than.They did not include a shipping label but had me ship the scope back at my own cost with the promise they would look at it. At this time it is too early to judge, like I said previously, I will give them a fair change to make it right. However, at this time they are nowhere near showing the customer care I have experience from other manufactures and their products. And for a manufacturer of that level, in name and price, I find that a disappointing start. I do hope the experience changes as this process moves forward. I will surely keep you updated. I do this for those that care. If you are one of the people that does not care. Great for you. You must have had a great experience with Steiner and I look forward to your review or, most likely, do not own any of their products at all. Either way; your squeaking is not contributing any value towards this tread. Neither does it to Steiner and their customer care. Steiner will have to do that for themselves with their actions. And if they do, I will make sure to report that as well. In fact, I hope they do well and will be happy to report so.

And for the record, to this point, just by this tread, we have identified possibly 3 people with similar issues regarding the same product. One of them having had disappointing experiences with the solution offered by Steiner. For anyone looking to purchase in the future, this might be valuable information. And forums like these, and any other similar forums (bimmerforums, VW forums, Appleforums, Karhforum to name a couple) are for many of us the ONLY resource available. That is why I believe sharing the good AND the bad is important. For many of us that is the ONLY way to make an educated decision of what to spend our money on.

Thank you and have a great weekend

My question to you is this.... On each of those instances you used warranty service for all those manufacturers did you go start a threads in the appropriate forums about those problems or is this a special situation?

I sent a Glock in for service and paid to ship it out but they fixed it no charge and sent it back. I didn't get upset because I had to ship it and go start a glocktalk forum thread about it.

Trijicon wanted me to pay shop to them too and stated 2 to 4 weeks turn around and that was on a priority rush status for my work gun. Was this apple deal at a store? If so that's apples to oranges because they will just take it back then send the one you took in to be refurbished and either sold or sent as a warranty replacement. If it was online they probably sent you a refurb computer. You even went so far to say a repair is not acceptable and you demand a replacement. Next time go buy it at a brick and mortar store and maybe they will take it back for you and give you a replacement. That's the down side to an online purchase, it can't easily be returned and inspected on the spot.

BTW I don't have any affiliation with Steiner or even own a Steiner scope yet till the T series come out. Maybe it is a design flaw but one of your 3 other people could not even figure out the zero stop so don't know how much trust I have for that one. I'm just tired of this place turning into freaking arfcom with all the brand bashing and stupid questions being repeated over and over. I don't care if we are talking Steiner, Vortex, S&B or Bushnell. All these companies seem to take care of their customers and fix the problems. Don't go get bent because they have you send it in and give you a 4-6 week turnaround. BTW that time frame seems pretty standard in the industry from my experiences.

OP just curious you ever PM Steiner Optics here on the hide with any of your concerns before making this post?

Rob I will gladly join in on some Vortex threads and tell them to quit crying too!

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I am a 4th person to have this same issue occur.
Here is my story: My parallax came loose on me when i was sighting my 6.5 grendel in for a hunt during the first of November that i have planned. I had the scope on an armalite ar10 in 308 with all JP goodies on it including a large muzzle brake. My scope was only a month old when this happened and had a total of 30 shots fired on it. I was very disappointed when i discovered the issue. I called Burris/Steiner this past Monday and got the scope in the mail because I flew out to China on Tuesday and will not be back until Oct 17th. I addressed that i needed the scope back for my hunt at the end of the month. He still said it would be 4-6 weeks. I am OK with that. I have other scopes and rifles i can use for the hunt.

The reason i bought the scope in the first place: I purchased a steiner 5-25 MXi with MSR reticle which I am really pleased with. Eurooptic made a deal with Steiner to sell off all of their discontinued military scopes. Paying 1099.00 for a 3-12x56 was too good of a deal to pass up.

I am OK with Steiner fixing the problem even though the scope is practically brand new. The Scope was for sale at a great price only because they have discontinued the model. the Mxi and Txi (I believe those are the correct product lines) are out and have better turret designs. the only upset I have with the entire situation is that i purchased that scope to hunt with and I will not have it back by then.

Also, I think these threads are important to provide information in anyway. Opinions are important also.

I have been following the new Steiner Tactical Scope thread that will be made in USA and i am extremely excited about this scope in 5-25.

Now this is a good post that actually contains great information rather than a bitch fest since they said no to the demand for a new replacement. It makes me believe that the turret design may be flawed and hence why it was discontinued. If this was the initial post there would be no argument as this is legitimate post worth discussion.

 

[918v]

Buy two scopes. One primary and one backup.

 

[Elite_KG]

I don't give two sh*ts what company it is, but when you pay $2k for an optic an their company mantra is "Rugged. Reliable. Repeatable." and it's broken/defective nearly right out if the box, the OP and anyone else has just cause to scream it from the mountain tops if he so chooses. People come here to find research products and manufacturers to reduce the chance of such failures and defects. Yes, everyone company has them. So I would like them all posted so I can choose where I want to risk my $$$.
As I sit here now less than a week from rifle season, my rugged, reliable, repeatable Nightforce is back at headquarters for a lens failure. It just fell over in the scope. One day it's fine, the next it's broken; no noted cause. Just failed; defective.
So I will be hunting with another gun with a non-NF optic that was much easier on my wallet.
I got the same "send it in. We will evaluate and repair." Well I didn't spend $2k for a refurbished or repaired scope. I didn't spend that money to use a back-up gun this year. I spent the money for rugged, reliable and repeatable. That's not what I got.
I and anyone else has every right to broadcast real user feedback so others can be informed. My NF, NXS 2.5-10x42 failed on the fourth ever outing.
Will they fix it? Sure. Will it be the same as new? Possibly. Does it make me feel better about their products? No! It failed under less than "normal use" conditions.

 

[918v]

So they didn't glue that one together?

Look at the positive: they will make triple sure your scope outlasts you and your grand kids.

 

[SNAFU308]

I bought one of the 4-16x50 Steiner's on for the discounted price from EuroOptic too. I mounted it on my AIAE MKII (.308) and have had zero issues with mine perhaps there was a bad batch of 3-12x56's??? either way i'd give Steiner the opportunity to rectify the issue. If they don't fix the scope then you certainly have something to complain about but until then i'd wait and see what happens.

I appreciate that you may not like the way things have been handled thus far but every company has their own warranty processes and as frustrating as it can be sometimes you just have to be patient and wait.

Apart from the longer length I like the Steiner particularly for the price they were being cleared out for, no it's not as nice as my S&B PMII but it tracks perfectly and still provides and nice image with nice contrast. Hopefully you get the issues sorted as they are a nice scope

 

[AlfredE.Neuman]

I'm a relatively new member here with few posts. I appreciate this thread and agree it's threads like these that inform us of the problems encountered by other members. Reading of the experiences of others, both good experiences and bad, has helped make difficult choices easier and saved me money. I just yesterday bought a Schmidt and Bender PMII 5-25 based on experiences of others. If I'm going to turn loose of close to 4K for a scope, I want to be informed. My scope's only a day old and is waiting for my rifle from Accurate Ordnance, but believe me, if I have problems with it, I'll be sharing... Thanks for the thread vno.helix!

 

[vno.helix]

COLOSHOOTR;

"My question to you is this.... On each of those instances you used warranty service for all those manufacturers did you go start a threads in the appropriate forums about those problems or is this a special situation?"

The answer is NO for one reason and one reason only; I researched the subject prior to contacting those particular manufacturers and found threads like this one, multiple per case in fact. For grins and giggles, google "Kahr feeding issues" and you will get tons of info on explaining the details of the issue and on what to expect once contacting the manufacturer. In the Steiner case, there was none existing that would give me any info regarding the issue and/or regarding the companies integrity, at least that I could find, so I created one for that purpose only.

 

[sharac]

I see no reason why someone would have to defend or explain his reasons for posting factual data on product he purchased regardless of company. These forums are indeed fucked when certain companies/issues can be spat upon, glorified and almost anything goes but as soon as someone steps on the toes of certain people/companies/issues they get hammered. Posting in a thread to accuse someone of bitching when his paid for new item fails in totally unacceptable or normal (in terms of intended use - its nor unreasonable to expect a riflescope to actually perform and be on a rifle that shoots and kicks instead in the "storage to outlast your grandkids") manner is exactly what these forums should not be or become - unless of course the idea is to have companies advertise and people either professionally or due to them being brain dead cheer for certain brands to make as much sale to suckers as possible. In the latter case everything seems logical but the end result will be that this will become just another ad site with little or no objective value.

IF this was IOR thread there would be plenty of posters screaming Lowlight told you so and its your own fault to have bought it etc... I wonder what would happen if i wrote that here locally two NFs died on HS50 in just a few rounds, there would be plenty of fan boys screaming bullshit...

 

[270Win]

Anyone who spends $1000 or more on an optic expects it to be tested and proven BEFORE leaving the factory... I too would be pissed off if my brand new scope was faulty....

For one exactly who is making the American line of Steiner scopes?

I believe that the Swarovski Z3 is made in the USA but I don't think it is on par with the Z5 or Z6...

There is a reason that people are willing to pay big money for German/Austrian Made optics... Schmidt and Bender, Swarovski, Kahles, etc...

Disclaimer.. these are only the opinions of a monkey typing on a key board

 

[TacosGigante]

For one exactly who is making the American line of Steiner scopes?

If I understand OP correctly he has a Steiner Military model, which are made in Germany. The new Tactical models are made by Steiner in the US, and will be flawless and perfect in every way, or so I hope, since I bought one.

 

[TacosGigante]

For one exactly who is making the American line of Steiner scopes?

If I understand OP correctly he has a Steiner Military model, which are made in Germany. The new Tactical models are made by Steiner in the US, and will be flawless and perfect in every way, or so I hope, since I bought one.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

COLOSHOOTR;

"My question to you is this.... On each of those instances you used warranty service for all those manufacturers did you go start a threads in the appropriate forums about those problems or is this a special situation?"

The answer is NO for one reason and one reason only; I researched the subject prior to contacting those particular manufacturers and found threads like this one, multiple per case in fact. For grins and giggles, google "Kahr feeding issues" and you will get tons of info on explaining the details of the issue and on what to expect once contacting the manufacturer. In the Steiner case, there was none existing that would give me any info regarding the issue and/or regarding the companies integrity, at least that I could find, so I created one for that purpose only.

No need to Google Kahr problems there is one on the table 5 feet away from me and have a good friend that has a PM9 that did have feeding issues. I also know it went back three times before it worked right. Mine has been flawless except for a bad batch of magazines but I'm fully aware of the issues.

The tone of your initial post came across to me all wrong in a tone I considered to be bitching. The part that set me off was the a repair won't do part. I felt that was going over the egde and was unreasonable for you to expect as none of the manufacturers I know of would go for that.

I do apologize for snapping at you though. I have just gotten tired of the brand bashing, especially in the handgun forum, so I did kind of snap and take it out on you. Now that more information has come out I do realize you were not attempting to brand bash and that you were just trying to get clarification on a potential issue. I feel it probably would have been more effective to ask the question flat out and see if anyone else was experiencing a problem without the complaint about service but thats just my two cents worth on that and I'm letting it go.

I wish you luck getting it fixed or replaced. I know for a fact they will take care of you as I have had the privilege going to Steiner/Burris and had the opportunity to meet the grest group of people that do fix the products. They really seem to do their best to make it better than it was brand new. I even offer you my help and can get you in touch with some people that are affiliated with Steiner if you would like to see if they can help you out.

270win, the scopes are made in Colorado at Steiner and are not made anywhere else. I even posted the pictures to prove it here on the optics section of the hide if you look down a bit for the thread.

 

[Mrhyne]

Just trying to help here in clarification for 270win. And please correct me if I wrong but the Steiner military scopes are this line and were made in Germany and imported to the US through Burris.
3-12x50
3-12x56
4-16x50
1-4x24
These are all discontinued and that is where the eurooptics smoking deal came from!


Then they came out with the MX5
5-25x56
3-15x50
1-5x24
These are made in Germany and basically replaced the military models.

The new tactical models will be assembled in the US TX5 I believe. They are not out yet but COLOSHOOTER has proof of them in production..... Which is awesome.

 

[hk dave]

Hmm I thought the 4x scopes were made here in the US and the Military 5x line was made in Germany?

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Pretty sure they are assembled by Burris here in the USA so they should be able to fix it within a couple weeks or send a replacement.

Not at all. Burris doesn't make anything for Steiner.

 

[918v]

I wonder what in the design of the parallax control is the weak link? Is it a manufacturing QC issue or a design flaw? Cuz nobody wants a scope with fragile knobs.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Not at all. Burris doesn't make anything for Steiner.

You absolutely sure about that?

I'll just say it... YOU'RE WRONG.

Burris and Steiner are in the same building in Greeley, CO.

And I would trust a repaired scope more than a brand new one. Then at least I know the scope has been gone through. New scopes are subjected to sample testing. Faulty ones will get through.

One more thing... 4-6 weeks turn around time is not that long. What's S&B's repair time? Or any other scope manufacturer excluding Vortex.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

Hmm I thought the 4x scopes were made here in the US and the Military 5x line was made in Germany?

The T5Xi is being made here in the states as the 5x indicates its a 5x scope. I don't know about the 4x line I've only seen where the T5Xi line is made.

Burris is to Steiner as CCI is to Speer. Both are part of the same parent company.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

You absolutely sure about that?

I'll just say it... YOU'RE WRONG.

Burris and Steiner are in the same building in Greeley, CO.

And I would trust a repaired scope more than a brand new one. Then at least I know the scope has been gone through. New scopes are subjected to sample testing. Faulty ones will get through.

One more thing... 4-6 weeks turn around time is not that long. What's S&B's repair time? Or any other scope manufacturer excluding Vortex.

What exactly am I wrong about? So what if they are in the same building what does Burris make for Steiner? How about a quote from Martin at Steiner:

Really guys? Yes we use the same tech support people, and accounting department, and HR department, and janitors, and lunch room. Maybe I should have put "we share nothing as far as products go" in bold.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

Hmm I thought the 4x scopes were made here in the US and the Military 5x line was made in Germany?

That is correct. I think the 4x scopes have German glass, but assembled in the USA, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the components (tube, at least) were also US-made.

 

[SNAFU308]

Nope the 4x Military models are made in Germany well at least the one sitting in my safe is anyway (4-16x50)

 

[hk dave]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ical-scope-there-difference-between-them.html

According to this thread, the folks at Steiner say the 4x series are made in the US with German glass... not that it really makes any real difference. I honestly felt my 4-16x was optically superior to my 3-15x... the but I had to go 3-15 because of the MSR reticle.

Unless they moved productions of the 4x ones to Germany as well? Ah whatever, they're discontinued anyhow...

I'm looking forward to adding a Steiner Tactical 3-15 to my collection.