Rifle Scopes Steiner Military/Tactical Scope is there a difference between them ??

[peterh]

The name designation means nothing. We started using the name Military and later started using Tactical rather than Military. The 4x scopes are completely different than the 5x scopes obviously. Don't get hung up on the name that is engraved on the tube, box, manual, website, where ever. If it's a 4x scope (4x-16x, 3x-12x, 1x-4x) then it is the same scope regardless of the name on it. If it's a 5x scope (3x-15x or 5x-25x) then it is the same scope regardless of the name on it. What you need to decide is which one you want (4x or 5x).

If we are running a promotion on a Military/Tactical scope it could be for one family or another but not both although we have in the past.

Does that clear things up?

Then I was right, the 5X is totally different from the 4X and also the 5X is manufactured and assembled in Germany, where as the 4X is I take it manufactured in Germany but assembled here in the U.S. One last question for Steiner Optics, is the glass in the 4X the same quality as the 5X ??

Steiner Optics, will there be any promos soon on the 5X scopes??

 

[Steiner Optics]

Then I was right, the 5X is totally different from the 4X and also the 5X is manufactured and assembled in Germany, where as the 4X is I take it manufactured in Germany but assembled here in the U.S. One last question for Steiner Optics, is the glass in the 4X the same quality as the 5X ??

Steiner Optics, will there be any promos soon on the 5X scopes??

Almost correct.

The 4x scopes are manufactured and assembled here with the exception of the glass.

The glass quality is identical however they are based on different optical platforms and will have slight differences.

I'm not sure about any upcoming promotions just yet.

 

[longshot2000]

Okay, here goes... Picking up a very old thread, and all of us having almost 4 years of additional experience.

Looking at the Steiner Military M5Xi 3-15 and the older 4-16, are we still saying the scopes have the same glass and that the platform is a little different? I guess my question is: As I read about the M5Xi 3-15, I have seen some reviews that were a bit disappointing in their review and testing of the turrets, and one reviewer mentioned that the Tactical T5Xi 3-15 had just as good an image, and now a very large difference in price.

So, for those who have used and compared, how good is the M5Xi 3-15 ? I know, tough question, but with a street price of $2,500 (+/-), is it that good? The T5Mi 3-15 is running $1,400 at a couple of shops, and then there is the 4-16 that Euro-Optic is selling. The two latter scopes look a little lacking in the turret area.

Thoughts?

 

[Flyingbullseye]

The M5Xi scopes are built tough and track true, same as the older 4-16. The newer T series as I'm sure by now you are aware of had a very rocky start with tracking issues on nearly every model out the door. That has since been resolved but it still hurts the purchasing for many. As for glass the older 4-16 bests the other 2. The newer 4-16 is too new to know how it will work out durability, tracking and or glass. Don't like the SCR reticle so unless it has more reticles in the future its not a scope I'd look at for myself.

 

[blbennett1288]

Ilya's comparison of the M to the T line...he takes the T

http://opticsthoughts.com/?p=1673

 

[lash]

The turrets on the T line are actually very good and I would (and did) take them any time. The second rev reading is very handy and my turrets track like champs. Zero stop setting is easy as can be while still requiring the use of an allen key. And I happen to like the SCR reticle, so that's a plus.

 

[blbennett1288]

Mine has also tracked very well so far. They do have the upgraded turrets. Time will really tell though as I just have 2-3 range sessions and 1 match with it. I do like the compactness of the turrets and sec rev indicator. My second rev indicator was a bit tough at first but working the turret up and down over the switch a couple times sorted it out. Zero stop is as simple as it comes. The SCR reticle is my favorite normal reticle only behind the MIL-C and MIL-R. The glass in it is very good. I have compared it to other optics and it is on par with scopes in the $2k range.

In the $1300-$1500 range I would take it every day every time. I would not pay $2200 for it. They can be found in the PX from $1300-1500, on EuroOptic and Natchez SS they can be found as Blems and Refurbs for $1300-$1400. I talked with Steiner CS and the scope purchased second hand, as refurb or blem, has their Heritage warranty, so you are good to go there. I have not used Steiner's CS, but have used Burris' and it has not let me down.

 

[notorious]

The turrets on the T are better than the M. Glass is a wash, as is illumination, although my T has a slightly grayer area where the illumination lights up.

 

[lash]

The turrets on the T are better than the M. Glass is a wash, as is illumination, although my T has a slightly grayer area where the illumination lights up.

Get ahold of Steiner CS about that illuminated reticle that is grey when not lit. That was an early issue that I'm pretty sure they will correct, as they corrected it shortly after introduction.

 

[notorious]

Get ahold of Steiner CS about that illuminated reticle that is grey when not lit. That was an early issue that I'm pretty sure they will correct, as they corrected it shortly after introduction.

When I sent it off the first time it was supposed to be fixed when they swapped out the turrets, but it didn't happen. If it drives me crazy I will send it in again.

 

[longshot2000]

Good commentary. One of the commercial vendors has the T on sale at $1415 earlier in the week. I think they are out of stock now. Sounds like Steiner recalled or fixed the turret and tracking issues with the T? Someone on the Steiner site referred to the fixed T as "Gen2" but I am not sure that is pervasive, or how to tell Gen1 from Gen2.

I did read the Ilya post, and was concerned by his comments on how he felt the M series did not stand-up. He seems to be in the minority on that.

 

[blbennett1288]

I have not heard it called a Gen2, but you can tell if they are upgraded turrets since the new ones have the Steiner logo on them.

I do not think Ilya's comments were that the M series did not exceed the T Series, but more that for the price point it was an easy decision to go with the T Series if you were on the low end of the budget. Maybe Ilya himself can clarify more.

 

[longshot2000]

So, with Beretta owning Burris, and Burris owning Steiner, how much cross-pollination are we now seeing between Steiner and Burris, in terms of parts, manufacturing, quality ? I am slow at this game. Only recently learned that Kahles was made by Swarovski

 

[lash]

Well, the nice competition reticle, the SCR came out with the Steiner T series and shortly afterwards showed up in the Burris line of tactical scopes. So at the least, they are sharing reticle designs.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Since I am currently selling a 3-15mx5i, I've been doing my homework on them, as people seem drawn to the Tx line because of price. What you find is that you typically get what you pay for.

The Tx series is made and assembled in the US by Burris. The Glass is german, and the mechanics, and customer service is burris. The military M line is 100% made in germany, and customer service is handled by Steiner Germany via a US Steiner division.

Now with regards to differences, after doing some research I've found lots of early issues with tracking on the Tx line. One person tested 20 scopes in 2013, and found all 20 had tracking issues. This problem seems to have been fixed. However, many people complained of poor customer service through Burris, and long waits to get their scopes back. Also, looking at previous comments from other members on the hide, a good amount of them are having current issues with parallax in 2017 on the T series.

The M line does not seem to have has the mechanical difficulties seen in the Tx line.

Bottom line, you get what you pay for. There is no free lunch. The tx might have glass on par, and firmer turrets, but has suffered from a higher than usual amounts of reliability issues, and poor customer service. Burris does not just magically wake up one day, and become Steiner, Khales, or Schmidt and Bender.

 

[lash]

Since I am currently selling a 3-15mx5i, I've been doing my homework on them, as people seem drawn to the Tx line because of price. What you find is that you typically get what you pay for.

The Tx series is made and assembled in the US by Burris. The Glass is german, and the mechanics, and customer service is burris. The military M line is 100% made in germany, and customer service is handled by Steiner Germany via a US Steiner division.

Now with regards to differences, after doing some research I've found lots of early issues with tracking on the Tx line. One person tested 20 scopes in 2013, and found all 20 had tracking issues. This problem seems to have been fixed. However, many people complained of poor customer service through Burris, and long waits to get their scopes back. Also, looking at previous comments from other members on the hide, a good amount of them are having current issues with parallax in 2017 on the T series.

The M line does not seem to have has the mechanical difficulties seen in the Tx line.

Bottom line, you get what you pay for. There is no free lunch. The tx might have glass on par, and firmer turrets, but has suffered from a higher than usual amounts of reliability issues, and poor customer service. Burris does not just magically wake up one day, and become Steiner, Khales, or Schmidt and Bender.

Great negative advertising based purely on your need to sell people on how much better the M series is than the T series. I won't argue that, but your post is just pure sales BS based on zero actual experience and references to very old complaints that by most all accounts have been corrected.

Anyway, good attempt at spin with no real information to back it up and admittedly suspect purpose. You should peddle that drivel elsewhere. Maybe someplace that doesn't actually use these scopes in real situations.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Great negative advertising based purely on your need to sell people on how much better the M series is than the T series. I won't argue that, but your post is just pure sales BS based on zero actual experience and references to very old complaints that by most all accounts have been corrected.

Anyway, good attempt at spin with no real information to back it up and admittedly suspect purpose. You should peddle that drivel elsewhere. Maybe someplace that doesn't actually use these scopes in real situations.

You added nothing of value to the conversation. Everyone has their own bias, at least, I am honest about mine. From your previous post, it's obvious you own a T series.

When I get messages from members asking to purchase my scope for half of what it's worth, because they can get the same scope in the T series for that price, then I do my homework. I read about a dozen articles and threads about the T and M series.

Instead of taking personal attacks at me, why don't you dissect my individual points, and state exactly where I am wrong. I did say that tracking has been fixed, but that other members are complaining of parallax. You can find many threads on here, ar15.com all dated between 2015-2017 with those issues.
here are a few , which you participated in with obvious bias. You seem to get butthurt when anyone has a negative experience with the T series. Cat calling the kettle black here.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...steiner-issues
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/sniper%C2%92s-hide%C2%AE-armory-supply/sniper-s-hide-rifle-scopes/6305037-steiner-owners-thinking-about-a-steiner-t5xi

 

[lash]

Let's just say that the T series has never tried to compete with "Steiner (M series I presume you mean), Kahles, or Schmidt & Bender". The price differential alone should tell you that. I don't think that anyone here, myself especially has even tried to say that. The T series sells for a street price of $1500--1800 new. All of the others you mentioned are selling retail for at least $600-1500 more than that.

I am not butt hurt about anything and my response to you was simply pointing out that your only reason for posting was to sell your M scope, which obviously is so much better that you decided to sell it. The OP asked for opinions from people who have actual experience with both scopes, which I have and share. You decided to post with a selective bias merely to shore up the damage that Steiner did to the resale value of the M series scopes. I did not do that, nor do I think that the T series has the value of an M series Steiner.

I can say that in that price point range, there are few scopes that offer the value and options set that the Steiner does. I actually use mine and I use it hard. If you read the entirety of my posts on the Steiner, you would see a pattern that did and does take Steiner to task for their poor roll-out before fully vetting the product and holds them responsible for the damage done to the reputation of that series of scopes. My review of my Steiner that I did was never posted by them because I was honest with them about their roll-out and the issues that I too initially had regarding parallax and the difficulty setting up my ocular so that it worked properly. I posted a lengthy review on mine on the Scout version of the Hide and was open and vocal about my issues. I just don't spew hate when I have issues and prefer to work with vendors to resolve issues.

And yes, I do take those to task that are carried away in their response or expectations, whether that be in personalized customer service (which even Steiner admitted was not as quick or as well handled as it should have been), or for their inability to get over a personal vendetta due to a bad experience. I make no apology for that.

As to the value my previous post has, that is your opinion, because it involved you. It was worth noting to the uninitiated, that your post was simply a sales job because you are having trouble selling your M series scope. Your post did nothing real but regurgitate the same, mostly unsubstantiated accusations that have been floating around since the flopped introduction of this line. Instead, you should move on and wait for the right buyer. People familiar with the M- series will pay a reasonable price for one, even used, but any damage to your resale value is done and no amount of regurgitating what you read on the internet will change that.

Cheers and good luck with your sale.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Much better response.Listen, I was candid about my bias, and the fact that I was speaking from research not use. Maybe I did get carried away in my language, but once again, I've received a few messages asking me to price my m series to the level of the t series, so I wanted to address that.

use the google function and check all the major gun sites and complaints are still pouring in about the t series, much so less with the m series.

it took this thread 3 pages for people to point out that Burris actually constructed the scope not Steiner.

 

[lash]

it took this thread 3 pages for people to point out that Burris actually constructed the scope not Steiner.

Lol! While we're on that subject, I guess I should point out that the Steiner M series repairs and customer service here in the States are also handled out of the Greeley, Colorado facility where both Burris and Steiner T series is produced. I don't think that it's a secret.

 

[Tonsofguns]

well, the m series goes to Germany for Steiner to work on and the t series to Burris for them to work on.

Lol! While we're on that subject, I guess I should point out that the Steiner M series repairs and customer service here in the States are also handled out of the Greeley, Colorado facility where both Burris and Steiner T series is produced. I don't think that it's a secret.

 

[JMGlasgow]

well, the m series goes to Germany for Steiner to work on and the t series to Burris for them to work on.

Are you 100% certain they go to Germany? I'm willing to bet they stay in the USA for repairs. The binoculars are repaired here as well. Why ship them to Germany for repairs when they can be repaired here?

 

[Tonsofguns]

I am not 100percent sure but i read that on one of the threads. Also, I know for khales and minox they get sent to a us office and then off to Germany and Austria (personal experience) Since the scopes aren't built in the Us they are most likely not serviced here unless it's something small



QUOTE=JMGlasgow;n6519653]

Are you 100% certain they go to Germany? I'm willing to bet they stay in the USA for repairs. The binoculars are repaired here as well. Why ship them to Germany for repairs when they can be repaired here? [/QUOTE]

 

[lash]

well, the m series goes to Germany for Steiner to work on and the t series to Burris for them to work on.

I think that perhaps you should check your facts before saying stuff that you read on the internet.

Edit: I realized that perhaps I should look it up for you.

http://www.steiner-optics.com/repair-info

[h=1]Repairs[/h] The following repair information is for U.S. and Canadian customers only. For other countries and Steiner Distributors, please visit:www.Steiner.de

---

[h=2]Binoculars and Riflescopes[/h]
If you are experiencing any problems with your Steiner optic or accessory, please first review the manual for helpful tips and information. Keep in mind that exterior parts which show wear from usage are not covered under warranty.

To begin the repair process, please click here:

STEINER U.S. SUPPORT PORTAL
or call 1-888-550-6255

Repairs are done at our US facility and are currently averaging a 4-6 week turnaround.

Prior to shipping, please contact our customer service team for return information

 

[Tonsofguns]

I think that perhaps you should check your facts before saying stuff that you read on the internet.

Edit: I realized that perhaps I should look it up for you.

http://www.steiner-optics.com/repair-info

well then i was wrong about the servicing. That still does not erase the previous complaints of tracking, and current complaints of parallax.

 

[lash]

Lol! Hey, wrong about one thing and everything you've ever said doesn't count. It's in the rules.

 

[blbennett1288]

I have owned 2 XTRIIs and sent 2 back to Burris CS. I have not sent my T5Xi back to CS but after several interactions over the phone and email and I can tell you they are not the same entity. Completely different processing systems and personnel. Steiner CS was much more responsive and timely than Burris, which is expected due to higher cost and less demand.

I agree that the M line is superior, but to what cost? T5Xi's are running $1300-1500. A good deal on M5Xi is $2000-2300 and they are fewer and farther between. The T5Xi I own is a 2nd hand scope purchased here on the hide. It was purchased pre-production and the SN was one of the first batches produced. They only issues it had were tracking and grey reticle. Tracking was taken care of by the new turrets and reticle was fixed, both in a timely manner as stated and documented by the previous owner.

Previously, I had posted that the glass was on par with $2k scopes. I stand by this statement in well lit conditions. Today it was raining and overcast and I noticed a considerable amount of CA on darker objects. This is on par with what others have reported.

I do own a T5Xi and think it is a great value buying it used or refurb/blem from EuroOptics or NatchezSS. I would not pay retail. I have nothing to gain from the T5Xi doing well, I just report what I see/experience first hand. If I take a bath on it and the T5Xi shits the bed I'll let the world know, but it has performed as expected.

lash posts frequently and I do not recognize your username...just sayin cuz

 

[blbennett1288]

Alright, after spending the majority of the afternoon dry firing in the garage during a rainy day I have observed the following between a T5Xi 5-25x56 and NXS 2.5-10x24. I know this is an apples and oranges comparison, but I put both on x10 and set the Steiner to 100yd parallax. I am looking at a satellite dish and attic vent 90-100yards away. The T5Xi has a more crisp image compared to the NXS but experiences CA around the edges. The NXS does not experience the same CA and I cannot even see any. The NXS is significantly darker which is expected due to the x24 diameter. You can resolve more with the T5Xi but not by much. Honestly, I did not really notice the CA until I compared the two. I did not experience the CA in the Steiner on well lit days. The glass in the x24 NXS has impressed me so much I want to upgrade to an ATACR. Keep in mind this is the latest limited production x24

 

[Big Bo]

I have been looking for a dual purpose hunting/long range target scope for a very long time. Looked at Sig T4, Sig T6, Razor 1st Gen, Razor 2nd Gen, Viper 1st Gen, Viper 2nd Gen, and last week a local gun store had the Steiner T5Xi 5-15x50. I asked to look through both the T5Xi 5-15 and the Viper 2nd gen 5-15. I looked at distances (rangefinder) from 150 yards to 900 yards. Side by side T5Xi and Viper and the Viper had clearer glass. I asked the sales man which did he think was sharper? Viper was his answer. I like how the Viper feels and the controls, but have read how many have had warranty issues. Man I was ready to over spend my budget on the T5Xi.

I am not rich, and talking the wife into being ok with me spending $1600 on a scope when $1000 is the target, is rough.

 

[blbennett1288]

I have been looking for a dual purpose hunting/long range target scope for a very long time. Looked at Sig T4, Sig T6, Razor 1st Gen, Razor 2nd Gen, Viper 1st Gen, Viper 2nd Gen, and last week a local gun store had the Steiner T5Xi 5-15x50. I asked to look through both the T5Xi 5-15 and the Viper 2nd gen 5-15. I looked at distances (rangefinder) from 150 yards to 900 yards. Side by side T5Xi and Viper and the Viper had clearer glass. I asked the sales man which did he think was sharper? Viper was his answer. I like how the Viper feels and the controls, but have read how many have had warranty issues. Man I was ready to over spend my budget on the T5Xi.

I am not rich, and talking the wife into being ok with me spending $1600 on a scope when $1000 is the target, is rough.

Both are 3-15 magnification. For what it is worth my experience with the T5Xi puts the glass better than the GEN2 PST. The only thing that keeps it from the 2k scopes is the CA.