Stock bedding a rack grade rifle

[Naaman]

Looking to make my M70 as nice as I can for not a lot of money.

I was thinking about having the stock bedded, but have some questions.

1. I just got it zeroed with the expensive Black Hills match ammo. Can the stock be bedded without a zero shift (I imagine the receiver/barreled action acan be removed without messing up the zero, but will bedding affect POI once the stock is back on)?

2. Does bedding a stock add a meaningful amount of weight? I don't mind a couple of ounces, but I'd like to keep weight down as much as I can.

3. Does bedding alone make a meaningful difference to the rilfe's consistency?

In case it matters, my rifle sits slightly biased to the right in the stock. But I can slide a dollar bill between the stock and barrel at the narrowest point. The stock is wood.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

1. No, there will be a POI shift.

2. No, I've never found it to add an appreciable amount of weight.

3. A good bedding job can make a rifle more consistent but it's sort of a case by case basis.

If it's a wood stock, pillar bedding the stock can certainly help because when the action screws are tightened the action and trigger guard bear on the aluminum pillars and not on the wood itself. This negates deformation of the stock that over time could allow the action to "wiggle" and increase the potential for inaccuracy. Bedding pillars and epoxy reinforce these areas and provides a more consistent bedding interface for better accuracy potential.

 

[Naaman]

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that it is, in fact, a wood stock.

Based on this info, I will probably wait till after my hunt this fall before having it bedded (unless I can get a good supply of a good deer hunting round between now and then for a decent price).

 

[chevy_man]

So you used match ammo to zero but are worried about hunting ammo?
Seems odd.


When it comes to wood I am in the "always bed and pillar" camp. It's wood. It moves. Get rid of any possible movement. Acraglass or marine Tex are both easily available and easy enough to work with. Plenty of places sell aluminum or steel pillars cheap enough.

 

[Naaman]

So you used match ammo to zero but are worried about hunting ammo?
Seems odd.


When it comes to wood I am in the "always bed and pillar" camp. It's wood. It moves. Get rid of any possible movement. Acraglass or marine Tex are both easily available and easy enough to work with. Plenty of places sell aluminum or steel pillars cheap enough.

Lol. Hey, man, I'm new to both hunting and scoped rifles. I'm not surprised my approach seems bass ackwards to those more knowledgable. Before all the Black Hills evaporated off the face of the earth, I selected some of their 168gr BTHP as my deer hunting round.

Now, even M80 is $1.50 or more per shot. All the "hunting" rounds are more like $3.00.

I have enough of it left to go hunting with and am hoping for an eventual return to sanity with ammo prices so I can afford to experiment before selecting a different (that is, available on planet earth) deer slayer round.

In any case, I'm learning as I go and I appreciate the input.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

If you intend on hunting with Black Hills 168gr BTHP 308, and your rifle is zeroed with that ammo, and you do not have enough to re-zero after bedding and still hunt, then no, I would not bed your rifle.

I would imagine that the bullet Black Hills uses for that ammo is similar to the Sierra 168gr SMK, which Sierra specifically says is not for hunting (doesn't expand well). That said, I'm not sure your selected ammo is the best option for hunting.

 

[MK20]

Sierras kill stuff just fine. Just don’t be a crappy shot.

 

[Whhood]

What do your groups look like now?
Where will you be hunting?
How far have you shot for groups?
How far are you comfortable shooting?
You mentioned deer, I assume whitetail.

Rifles have been killing animals all over the world forever without being bedded. Will bedding improve your rifle? Most likely yes. Is bedding “necessary”? Most likely no.
Whitetail deer are not hard to kill so I wouldn’t worry about finding or paying for premium ammo. Cup and core at .308 speeds work great.

 

[Naaman]

If you intend on hunting with Black Hills 168gr BTHP 308, and your rifle is zeroed with that ammo, and you do not have enough to re-zero after bedding and still hunt, then no, I would not bed your rifle.

I would imagine that the bullet Black Hills uses for that ammo is similar to the Sierra 168gr SMK, which Sierra specifically says is not for hunting (doesn't expand well). That said, I'm not sure your selected ammo is the best option for hunting.

Still learning! Thanks for the data point.

Sierras kill stuff just fine. Just don’t be a crappy shot.

Always getting better.

What do your groups look like now?
Where will you be hunting?
How far have you shot for groups?
How far are you comfortable shooting?
You mentioned deer, I assume whitetail.

Rifles have been killing animals all over the world forever without being bedded. Will bedding improve your rifle? Most likely yes. Is bedding “necessary”? Most likely no.
Whitetail deer are not hard to kill so I wouldn’t worry about finding or paying for premium ammo. Cup and core at .308 speeds work great.

This year, my tag is for "any fork-antlered deer," so, mule or whitetail.
Yesterday I was grouping within 1" to 1.25" at 100 shooting off my bag. This is about as far as I've shot for groups. The set up I have now gives me the impression that, as is, it is capable of one-hole groups at 100 if I take myself out of the equation.
I will probably have to make a judgement call as to how far I feel comfortable shooting when it comes to making an ethical kill in the field (conditions dictating). At work I knock down half-sized, moving silhouettes at about 175m on the first shot every time.

Are you saying that something like M80 ball is good to go for deer hunting?

I completely acknowledge that rack grade rifles have been getting it done for over a century already. As I'm sure we all can relate: I'm just looking for "an excuse" to spend some money on my kit.

Thanks, everyone, for helping me out.

 

[Whhood]

1-1.25 is plenty accurate for deer. By cup and core I’m referring to Remington Core-lokt, Federal Power Shok, and Winchester Super X in no particular order or preference for me. Basic soft point lead core in a copper “cup”.

 

[Naaman]

1-1.25 is plenty accurate for deer. By cup and core I’m referring to Remington Core-lokt, Federal Power Shok, and Winchester Super X in no particular order or preference for me. Basic soft point lead core in a copper “cup”.

Got it. Thanks. I'll be keeping an eye out.

 

[NukeMMC]

Looking to make my M70 as nice as I can for not a lot of money.

I was thinking about having the stock bedded, but have some questions.

1. I just got it zeroed with the expensive Black Hills match ammo. Can the stock be bedded without a zero shift (I imagine the receiver/barreled action acan be removed without messing up the zero, but will bedding affect POI once the stock is back on)?

2. Does bedding a stock add a meaningful amount of weight? I don't mind a couple of ounces, but I'd like to keep weight down as much as I can.

3. Does bedding alone make a meaningful difference to the rilfe's consistency?

In case it matters, my rifle sits slightly biased to the right in the stock. But I can slide a dollar bill between the stock and barrel at the narrowest point. The stock is wood.

As has been said, bedding a wood-stocked rifle will improve consistency, as long as it is done correctly. Pillar bedding is best.

Bedding alone is not a guarantee your lumber won't shift with weather and screw your zero. I saw many well-bedded M1 and M14 rifles go from 1moa groups to shotgun patterns in foul weather. Seal the stock to limit moisture intrusion into the grains. This includes the exterior and interior. A good sealer with a nice tung oil or danish oil finish will go a long way to preventing warpage in shit conditions.

If it were me, hunt this season with the rifle as-is and re-do your stock between seasons. You will have to re-zero.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

Sierras kill stuff just fine. Just don’t be a crappy shot.

Just saying that it may not be the best choice. Sierra makes bullets specifically for hunting too, it's their Sierra GameKing line.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Sierras kill stuff just fine. Just don’t be a crappy shot.

Also, hunt long enough and you're gonna have an unintended sub-optimal shot. Proper bullet choice is one more selection that makes an ethical kill more probable, along with knowing one's limits (range, wind call, shooting position quality, inherent rifle accuracy, etc.). All hunters have an obligation to the animal to do everything we can to put it down clean.

ETA: Sorry about the off-topic post, and I certainly can commiserate on the scarcity of ammo and components. To bring this back to relevance, agreed to the advice you've gotten, pillar bedding and sealing a wood stock is your best bet, but wait until after you hunt unless you find more ammo to zero with. Good luck out there.

 

[Naaman]

As has been said, bedding a wood-stocked rifle will improve consistency, as long as it is done correctly. Pillar bedding is best.

Bedding alone is not a guarantee your lumber won't shift with weather and screw your zero. I saw many well-bedded M1 and M14 rifles go from 1moa groups to shotgun patterns in foul weather. Seal the stock to limit moisture intrusion into the grains. This includes the exterior and interior. A good sealer with a nice tung oil or danish oil finish will go a long way to preventing warpage in shit conditions.

If it were me, hunt this season with the rifle as-is and re-do your stock between seasons. You will have to re-zero.

Just the kind of tips I'm looking for. Didn't know thing one about a sealer until now. Sometimes, one doesn't know enough to even know what questions to ask.

Just saying that it may not be the best choice. Sierra makes bullets specifically for hunting too, it's their Sierra GameKing line.

Also, hunt long enough and you're gonna have an unintended sub-optimal shot. Proper bullet choice is one more selection that makes an ethical kill more probable, along with knowing one's limits (range, wind call, shooting position quality, inherent rifle accuracy, etc.). All hunters have an obligation to the animal to do everything we can to put it down clean.

Well, after all the input, I may just see about buying a couple hundred rounds of a better hunting cartridge. If I can get enough of it, I may just decide to do the bedding/sealing before the upcoming season, and then zero with the new round.

I spent a lot of time at the range yesterday making sure that I called every bullseye and every flyer before being satisfied that my rifle was zeroed. In the worst case, I know my system better than I did before.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Well, after all the input, I may just see about buying a couple hundred rounds of a better hunting cartridge. If I can get enough of it, I may just decide to do the bedding/sealing before the upcoming season, and then zero with the new round.

I can keep an eye out locally if you like, where you based? Ammo's easy to toss in the mail. I figure you'd be looking for 165+gr 308 hunting ammo?

 

[Naaman]

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yes, I was shooting 168gr. Anything in the heavier-for-caliber loads. I live in the Phoenix area.

 

[KnowNothing256]

PM sent

 

[FisherT&C]

I've seen bedding have a profound effect on group sizes. I would never use any stock without bedding it.

 

[DJL2]

I bedded my M70 Supergrade Maple, but that wasn’t enough to salvage that particular barrel. One Bartlein later and the groups shrunk in half, but still some work to do on my part. The flats on the M70 can make it a little tricky to bed. I dork up the left side of the action because I don’t get the relief right pretty much every time. I also, inevitably, punch out the membrane thin wafer of material where the bolt rests.

I‘d be content to sling 150 or 165 SST if I wanted a traditional hunting bullet. If you’re gonna step into the match realm, I’d likely grab a 178 ELD-M or the TMK of your choice. That assumes you‘re OK with the bullet fragmenting and creating a wide, emphatic wound. Some people prefer ”meat saver” bullets and shot placement. Not this guy.

 

[Naaman]

I bedded my M70 Supergrade Maple, but that wasn’t enough to salvage that particular barrel. One Bartlein later and the groups shrunk in half, but still some work to do on my part. The flats on the M70 can make it a little tricky to bed. I dork up the left side of the action because I don’t get the relief right pretty much every time. I also, inevitably, punch out the membrane thin wafer of material where the bolt rests.

I‘d be content to sling 150 or 165 SST if I wanted a traditional hunting bullet. If you’re gonna step into the match realm, I’d likely grab a 178 ELD-M or the TMK of your choice. That assumes you‘re OK with the bullet fragmenting and creating a wide, emphatic wound. Some people prefer ”meat saver” bullets and shot placement. Not this guy.

When I started the thread I hadn't even considered doing it myself. After some reading, I'm now considering it, but haven't researched it. Thanks for the heads up on the particulars of the M70.

 

[DJL2]

Ah, my bad! You learn a lot from bedding a rifle... if nothing else, you learn why it's worth paying someone else to do it ;-). The good news is that messing up bedding isn't permanent (unless you really, really screw up).

I still have the maple stock in the back of my gun safe. Someday I might cut it down to dial in the LOP. Just seems too pretty to bin.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I’ve done a couple rifles, it’s not too hard with a drill press and Dremel; if you’ve got a mill you can do an amazingly professional job. There’s a guy that sells a DVD on how to do it, I found it extremely informative:

Stress-Free Pillar Bedding

richardscustomrifles.com

 

[Naaman]

Seems like there is a bit of availability on ammo lately and I'm considering buying a couple boxes of a good hunting round. With that, I'm thinking about pulling the stock off and sealing it up (and maybe bedding it, too) before getting back out to the range.

I looked at some how-to vids on youtube.

Looking at this video, it seems "too easy" so seal up a stock. Like... so easy, it should come that way.

When I look at my stock, it has a nice finish on it (looks "shiny" like the stock in the vid after the oil is applied).

Is it typical that the stock is already sealed? Or is this just some kind of wood dye like what is used on furniture?

 

[KnowNothing256]

It’s sonewhat rare that the inletting for the barreled action is sealed; manufacturers often cheap out by only sealing what you can see externally. Couldn’t tell you what your mfg chose to use as the finish, but there are plenty of options out there. A quick polyurethane coat on the raw inlet surfaces might be the easiest way to do it. If you’re gonna bed it, definitely do the bedding first to save wasted effort.

 

[Naaman]

Good point. I'm still looking into the bedding process. Working on a shopping list for materials and tools.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I found this video well worth the money. I never do his whole process, but it’s pretty easy to pick and choose what steps you’ll do. Highly recommend for a first-time bedder.

Stress-Free Pillar Bedding

richardscustomrifles.com

 

[Naaman]

It's on my shopping list.