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Ok thanks for your input, I have several precision bolt guns. I’ve been down that rabbit hole for 25 years. You wanna talk bolt guns? I’ve been shooting semi’s just as long, now I want to pick apart why they suck so bad. Like I said, it’s all brain food, something else to do.Ok, fair enough. If it was me, I’d optimize and buy a bolt-action for accuracy and use my semi for faster shooting fun, but you’re not me.
Let us know what you find out. I’m assuming you’re going to test different setups.
Some of my words might hurt sensitive peoples feelings. I should put a disclaimer out. You don’t really build a AR, it’s a assembly. If you can change a car tire you can literally change anything on a AR including a barrel.I don't think a semi has to "suck so bad".
Tolerances are usually set to allow the gun to run fast.
Most don't build a semi for precision and often it's the shooter that contributes to down range performance.
However you position the bipod, it's consistency that matters the most.
I'm shooting an AR in Mid Range F-open. In the most red headed stepchild caliber, 22 Nosler.
No-Gas, side charge single fed, 1:7, 28" bull, shooting 88grain ELDs, loaded LONG.
View attachment 7764386
Between load development, my skill level, and wind calling, I've got some room to improve.
I don't think I'm capable of out shooting this rifle. YET.
While some refer to an AR as Legos For Adults there is as much or more "building" as many do with a bolt gun.
You can have your favorite gunsmith true up your action, install a pre-fit, pillar your chassis, and buy as many of the parts as you can with an AR.
Here's my CHERRY PICKED 600 yard relay with the 22N.
I didn't come in first (or second) against the 6.5 and 7mm shooters, but for rookie I don't think I did too bad.
Waterline errors were the shooter as were the two 9's (not my fault, it was the wind)
I shoot for fun, it’s not even about a particular rifle. I don’t even have one in mind. It’s all about the physics, theories and solutions. More brain food for me.
Trying to come up with what could be the stiffest platform with the best possible barrel/upper connection steered towards accuracy and precision.
That’s good indication of problems being present and being remedied. Good post!The best option would be either an upper like the LMT monolithic design, where the upper receiver and handguard are machined from the same piece of aluminum, or something like the Drake Athena (now the Springfield ATC) that removes pressure on the barrel and barrel nut entirely.
The next best thing is an upper and handguard assemble where the handguard attaches directly to the upper, without contacting the barrel nut. Examples would be Aero Enhanced, Seekins IMRT (or SP10), JP LRI-10/SCI-10, Larue OBR/PredatAR/etc, Daniel Defense DD5, and maybe one or two others that I'm not remembering at the moment.
And just for fun, here's the patent for Chris Drake's Athena chassis (it also has some pics of their savage rimfire chassis, for some reason):
US20200284535A1 - Chassis of semiautomatic rifles - Google Patents
A firearm includes a lower receiver defining a trigger well configured to receive an action, a lower forend extending distally from and monolithically formed with the lower receiver, and an upper forend detachably coupled to the lower forend. The lower forend and the upper forend together define...patents.google.com
The comp version of the Athena (not being made yet, as far as I know) is basically a hybrid between an MDT ACC and an AR15 lower, along with an upper chassis section to cover the gas tube and provide a 12 o'clock picatinny rail.
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If it's a no-gas, single-shot is it really still an AR at that point? Or just a funny looking bolt gun?I don't think a semi has to "suck so bad".
Tolerances are usually set to allow the gun to run fast.
Most don't build a semi for precision and often it's the shooter that contributes to down range performance.
However you position the bipod, it's consistency that matters the most.
I'm shooting an AR in Mid Range F-open. In the most red headed stepchild caliber, 22 Nosler.
No-Gas, side charge single fed, 1:7, 28" bull, shooting 88grain ELDs, loaded LONG.
View attachment 7764386
Between load development, my skill level, and wind calling, I've got some room to improve.
I don't think I'm capable of out shooting this rifle. YET.
Agreed. I once told my smith about an AR that I was "building" and it looked like I caused him physical pain. I realized I was talking to a guy that uses a mill and lathe all day and actually builds things, while I was just assembling parts.I put the task right up there with putting a square block into a square hole. Any person with a sound mind and normal IQ can do it.
If it's consistent it doesn't matter.You’re not even in the same conversation bud.
You’re talking about stability of the platform, I’m talking about group size from inconsistent pressure introduced on the action, barrel and hand guard area, the barrel nut which is attached to a thin wall aluminum upper. We all know the farther the bipod the better for stability, but is it affecting group size. I say yes it is.
If it's consistent it doesn't matter.
If you do something wrong every time, but it's the same exact wrong way the outcome will be the same.
If you're loading your bipod enough to flex the upper the rounds being there or not probably aren't going to make a noticeable difference.
Let's say my upper flexed zeroing my rifle, it shoots a bug hole. Every time I shoot I load the rifle the exact same as when I zeroed it and pretend weather conditions don't exist. It'll still shoot bug holes.
You're probably over thinking it. Also aware you're a self professed troll.
I agree to some extent, but the mag emptying is not consistent. Changing weight of the mag and spring pressure from the follower pushing up on the bolt is changing with each pull of the trigger. That in turn makes the whole platform inconsistent and can’t be remedied unless it’s a single shot follower.If it's consistent it doesn't matter.
If you do something wrong every time, but it's the same exact wrong way the outcome will be the same.
If you're loading your bipod enough to flex the upper the rounds being there or not probably aren't going to make a noticeable difference.
Let's say my upper flexed zeroing my rifle, it shoots a bug hole. Every time I shoot I load the rifle the exact same as when I zeroed it and pretend weather conditions don't exist. It'll still shoot bug holes.
You're probably over thinking it. Also aware you're a self professed troll.
Found them. Scrolled and scrolled until I found 113.
Now listening to 112 and 113 next.
Back in a few days![]()
Awesome info!Might check this out while you're at it, especially the video interview with Glen:
Snipers Hide: Seekins Precision Accuracy Explained
Can't the same thing be said of a bolt gun that is feeding from an internal mag as well?I agree to some extent, but the mag emptying is not consistent. Changing weight of the mag and spring pressure from the follower pushing up on the bolt is changing with each pull of the trigger. That in turn makes the whole platform inconsistent and can’t be remedied unless it’s a single shot follower.
Then it’s no longer a semi auto.
And… I know I’m overthinking it, that’s my point of the post. Something for guys to over think lol
Also… I never gave myself that troll label.
I’ll never troll anyone who doesn’t rattle my cage first. I don’t go looking for fights, I just don’t put up with trolls. I’ve been on the internet a long time, I can navigate it very well especially when it comes to douche bags. I’m more into these tech convos than dealing with narcissistic ego strokers. But I will…. The mods gave me the reverse counter troll label one night over some trolls rattling my cage and I trolled them back. Lol
I just never changed it cause I don’t care about that shit, it’s funny.
Ps. you need to have a sense of humor about it, you also have to be able to laugh at yourself. Guys who get all upset usually leave with their tail between their legs. Guys who view the whole thing as entertainment usually goes away like they just left a comedy show. Like I said, don’t rattle my cage and you’ll never see the troll in me. I’ll have some of the best conversation you’ll ever have here. I can share 25 years of overthinking everything in long range and reloading or troll trolls. I’m no expert in either, but I’m definitely no beginner in either. People need to lighten up, most of this these forums threads are biased consumer reviews of products. People will always have different opinions, the key is to accept that. Lots can’t accept it though.
This isn’t a direct jab at you Akmike47, but is a opportunity to explain myself a little more.
Careful, you’re digging into more of my overthinking and why I never load the mag, and two of my three most used bolt guns are single shots. Lol My initial thoughts on the mag came from my bolt gun theory.Can't the same thing be said of a bolt gun that is feeding from an internal mag as well?
Well shit man..Since this is a discussion about bipod placement on an AR (even if you guys don't think my No-Gasgun isn't a real AR),
Here's my take on bipods. Referred to on another forum as my PSB (Plain Stupid Bipod).
View attachment 7765352
Dude!! That really is a cool idea, for a lot of reasons.
Why? Excessive dwell length isn't very pleasant.I want to go longer barrel but would like to keep the mid length system.
I have a mid length upper I’d like to just throw a 18-20” on it and roll.Why? Excessive dwell length isn't very pleasant.
Yes. The two systems do not need to have matching names, that's just a misconception based on the naming convention used.Unless you guys thing a rifle length system will run with a carbine buffer?
Nice! I’ve always was told it was a not going to run right, so I always just did the rifle length to rifleYes. The two systems do not need to have matching names, that's just a misconception based on the naming convention used.
Yeah it's one of those really persistent AR myths that refuses to die even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.Nice! I’ve always was told it was a not going to run right, so I always just did the rifle length to rifle
Carbine length to carbine.
Nice! I’ve always was told it was a not going to run right, so I always just did the rifle length to rifle
Carbine length to carbine. Etc. I’ll probably just order a 20” rifle length then.
Yeah it's one of those really persistent AR myths that refuses to die even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Already been there! Ended up with the Taccom 3 stage. Not sure if it's the best, but it's good enough for me.Play with PCC's for a bit, and sooner or later you'll literally be looking for wave-springs in your garage and change in your couch cushions to try in your buffer system...
Welcome to the internet. Where it's all true.Been building ARs for 15 years but doesn’t understand gas system lengths and recoil systems?
Been building ARs for 15 years but doesn’t understand gas system lengths and recoil systems?
And, by that token, one should not be surprised by another who is eyebrows deep in minutia, but doesn’t have a grasp of basic concepts…That's not that odd.
Go to a public range sometime, plenty of fudds have been shooting for 3 times that long and still don't know which end the fucking bullets come out.
I understand them completely, But it’s obvious these guys I was talking to are into them way more than I am, and I have a open minded enough to ask some questions to someone who knows more than me on the subject.Been building ARs for 15 years but doesn’t understand gas system lengths and recoil systems?
Are you the master of the square block into the square hole building? What do you need to know about them? Nothing?And, by that token, one should not be surprised by another who is eyebrows deep in minutia, but doesn’t have a grasp of basic concepts…
I don’t debate with Fudds at the range either…