Striations on brass after neck sizing - WHY?

[GBMaryland]

I had some brass that needed to be cleaned up after being in annealed (sp?).

I ran it through my Reading FL die, as truthfully we’re not doing a full resizing and I really didn’t think it mattered (as opposed to just using my neck sizer), and I started seeing this:

Does anybody have any idea why this is happening?

Funny you know I switched it out with an RCBS die just for giggles, and eventually started doing it as well.

I have to take the guys out and inspect them but… Has anyone ever seen this before?

GB

PS Different note I installed a modified area 419 orifice to my now rather old RCBS charge masters and what a difference.

 

[rustyinbend]

What are you doing to lube the cases before sizing?

 

[Halfnutz]

Have you cleaned the die?

 

[Threadcutter308]

I’ve seen it/had it happen to my brass. I neck size only (Oh, the horror ) and I’d get those marks if I annealed first. Now, I decap, clean, resize, anneal, then load. No more marks.
Don’t know what caused the marks, other than the brass possibly/probably being softer from the annealing. The neck sizing button is smooth on the inside. Nothing there to polish out.

 

[j-dubya]

Your brass is realllllly lean, like striated glutes in bodybuilding...

The neck area of your die is trashed up, and it’s embedded in tight so cleaning it isn’t going to work by just carb cleaner and wiping. It’s going to need polished out with a drill or Dremel. Forster dies like to do this much faster than other brands in my experience.

 

[rustyinbend]

I’ve seen it/had it happen to my brass. I neck size only (Oh, the horror ) and I’d get those marks if I annealed first. Now, I decap, clean, resize, anneal, then load. No more marks.
Don’t know what caused the marks, other than the brass possibly/probably being softer from the annealing. The neck sizing button is smooth on the inside. Nothing there to polish out.

Interesting ... I struggle a bit with that logic. Annealing is specifically used to make the brass more malleable and flexible during resizing. If you're not going to anneal to improve the brass' chemical properties prior to resizing ... then what's the value of post-resize annealing. Not criticizing ... just saying that annealing "after" sizing is exactly the opposite of virtually everything I've read and seen on this topic.

 

[Brux]

Brass in the neck of your die.

 

[GBMaryland]

So... ahhh... brass in the neck sizing area...

Yes, I'm bad... I tried to neck a few of them without lube. I guess that's it... I've been using the Redding neck bushing dies for so long, and never had this issue... that I just didn't consider it with normal dies.

I blame all of you for buying all the redding neck sizing dies and creating a backlog on the button inserts!

Thanks folks!

I'll get out the dremel with the buffing wheel and clean it... but I'll take the bore scope to them first and post it here.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Interesting ... I struggle a bit with that logic. Annealing is specifically used to make the brass more malleable and flexible during resizing. If you're not going to anneal to improve the brass' chemical properties prior to resizing ... then what's the value of post-resize annealing. Not criticizing ... just saying that annealing "after" sizing is exactly the opposite of virtually everything I've read and seen on this topic.

brass work hardens over time...it doesnt go from soft to hard in one firing so as long as youre annealing on a regular schedule and keeping the brass similar state, it doesnt matter when you anneal in the cycle...as long as you do it that way consistently

annealing can leave residue inside necks that makes them sticky and cause seating issues, but that is easily cared for

 

[Threadcutter308]

Interesting ... I struggle a bit with that logic. Annealing is specifically used to make the brass more malleable and flexible during resizing. If you're not going to anneal to improve the brass' chemical properties prior to resizing ... then what's the value of post-resize annealing. Not criticizing ... just saying that annealing "after" sizing is exactly the opposite of virtually everything I've read and seen on this topic.

I anneal each time I load. Yes, it is “out of sequence” but the brass does get annealed every “cycle”. Works for me, may not work for others......

 

[whatsupdoc]

I have seen this, but just not this bad with tumbled brass. The edge of the case neck gets peened over when tumbled then when you resize the brass
the die shaves some of the brass and it gets between the case neck and the die causing marks like you have.

Chamfering the brass before sizing it helps prevent this.

If you have a borescope check the dies neck area especially the shoulder/neck edge for brass particles.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Looks like the galling lines I get inside cases from my mandrel. No matter how smooth I polish it, a little brass ends up sticking and then causing this.

 

[salks]

Had the same problem. Something is gaulded up in your die. I cleaned and cleaned mine no change. I ended up calling reading they told me to send it to them they cleaned and polished it free of charge. It was when the pandemic first started so it took forever to get it back i know they were shut down for awhile last year. Haven't had an issue since.

 

[Steel head]

Looks like you ran it dry and it got galled brass in the neck area
Scrub the die and use lube.

 

[salks]

This was the transition area from neck to taper on my die.

 

[bigdaddydmd]

I had the same thing occur. This actually seems to be a common question in the reloading depot. Maybe we can get a sticky made about it.

Weird marks on my case neck. Any ideas?

I took my die apart and cleaned it all. This is my first time using it but bought it used off the hide a while ago. Anyways, it’s leaving these vertical swipes around about 50% of the neck on every swipe. it’s deep enough you can feel it with my fingernail. Should I send it back to Forster or...

www.snipershide.com

Polish up your die to remove the galled brass and it should correct the problem.

 

[308pirate]

It looks like shit but it won't hurt anything.

 

[Bullspotter]

I was getting this bad on my trim dies running bulk brass in 223 and 308, after only 200-300 cases, i ran a cloth wheel with flitz polish on them in the necks and get a good polish, also polished the body section, Then sized 1 brass to make sure all the galling was out, and then used microlon Gun juice in the die. Have not had any issues since after running 1000s of cases. In my case i think i was getting brass dust/shavings in the necks and it would build up and start galling the brass.

 

[Halfnutz]

Looks like the galling lines I get inside cases from my mandrel. No matter how smooth I polish it, a little brass ends up sticking and then causing this.

Do you use any lube in the necks at all?
I have yet to get a mandrel, my thoughts on them is that if I do I would try the tin coated ones.
I'm not annealing (yet). I don't lube inside necks normally for seating, but do wipe my finger over the case mouth with Imperial when sizing. The expander ball has less drag on the way out.

 

[Mike Casselton]

You can remove a lot of it with a bore brush with cleaner and spun in a drill.
It might take some 6-800 grit to remove the rest.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Do you use any lube in the necks at all?
I have yet to get a mandrel, my thoughts on them is that if I do I would try the tin coated ones.
I'm not annealing (yet). I don't lube inside necks normally for seating, but do wipe my finger over the case mouth with Imperial when sizing. The expander ball has less drag on the way out.

No and I ordered some Tin ones to try out. at this point im trying to reduce steps not add them.

 

[GBMaryland]

So I go downstairs I disassemble one of the dies and I find brass caked on the expander mandrel:

I put a little bit of flitz on my Dremel tool and I proceed to start buffing..,

It doesn’t get off all of the brass because it’s on there good:

It’s hard to tell how badly caked up the diet is but I can’t find anything small enough to get in there at a high speed and buffed it out:

 

[Halfnutz]

@GBMaryland Is Ultrasonic an option for you? Never tried it on dies, just gun parts.

Not much high speed that small. Maybe an old bore brush?

 

[KnowNothing256]

It’s a copper-based material, I bet a copper remover on a Q-tip would get it with a little marinating time.

 

[GBMaryland]

@GBMaryland Is Ultrasonic an option for you? Never tried it on dies, just gun parts.

Not much high speed that small. Maybe an old bore brush?

You know... I kinda wonder if using the ultrasonic with some copper remover wont work? hummmmmmm

 

[KnowNothing256]

You know... I kinda wonder if using the ultrasonic with some copper remover wont work? hummmmmmm

I’d try the copper remover by itself first. Think of it this way, we don’t ever feel the need to put barrels in an ultrasonic, we just use copper remover and it works eventually. Plus, I’ve heard too many horror stories about folks ruining their ultrasonics. Usually with CLR, grantee, but I wouldn’t be surprised if an aggressive copper remover also had some corrosivity.

 

[GBMaryland]

Does CLR dissolve copper / brass?

I've got a stainless ultrasound...

 

[KnowNothing256]

Does CLR dissolve copper / brass?

I've got a stainless ultrasound...

I actually don’t know if it does, it might but I figured copper remover had a better chance so I started there.

The stainless ones are the ones I’ve heard of being ruined; pretty sure TBAC had one of the horror stories. @TBACRAY, any chance you can confirm I’m remembering this right, that you guys lost a stainless ultrasonic to CLR?

 

[spife7980]

Does CLR dissolve copper / brass?

I've got a stainless ultrasound...

Nope, not copper.

 

[spife7980]

Ive got a redding 223 die basic die that does the same thing. Its just the outside of the neck and it doesnt effect how the rifle shoots.

Ive tried to use all sorts of chemicals, Ive tried steel wool and lapping compound with a drill etc and nothing has fixed it and I doubt it will outside of a lathe cleaning it up a thou or two. I know think "to hell with it" and stopped looking at the outside of the necks.

 

[Halfnutz]

You know... I kinda wonder if using the ultrasonic with some copper remover wont work? hummmmmmm

I've never used anything in the ultrasonic but the stuff from Hornady for gun parts. I think that would be the safest.
If it doesn't work an old bore brush with some super fine steel wool and run it wet with bore cleaner in a drill.

 

[Snuby642]

Is there a possibility of too much lube getting on the outside of the neck?

I had some necks look like that on the outside and cleaned the die with carb cleaner, gone.

Came back a couple dozen rounds later. Cleaned and gone.

Noticed I was accidentally getting sizing wax on the neck (in a hurry) and slowed my roll paying attention to my lubing of the case.

No problems with same die since.

 

[Snuby642]

Cases peaned over?
Have not had that happen in a dry tumble operation.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Not sure what chemocals remove brass.
Regarding ultrasonic cleaners. I put parts it in ziplock bag with the specific solution I want to use and drop that in my ultrasonic cleaner full of plain water. Now you dont need to fill your ultrasonic cleaner with random chemicals.

You might have to find a wood dowel or something like that to fit and wrap it with something like 800grit.

What caliber is it?

 

[GBMaryland]

65CM size

 

[GBMaryland]

Cases peaned over?
Have not had that happen in a dry tumble operation.

So I think I'm going to need to clean the edges on the brass... the dude who did the annealing indicated that between the stainless steel tumbling and annealing, that was probably going to need to be done.

 

[KZP]

Boretech eliminator should remove brass. I shoot brass solids sometimes and it seems to grab it from the barrel on patches. Have to cover my brass jags in masking tape first otherwise it discolors the patches right away.

If you have a carbide die/expander you can use this stuff https://www.delphiglass.com/solderi...atina-for-lead-and-solder-8-oz?source=froogle

I drop a TBSP in a glass and swirl it around with the carbide ball submerged. After a minute or two all the brass will dissolve

 

[Snuby642]

My champher setup.
Quick and easy.

 

[GBMaryland]

I just ordered the 65CM cutter head and holder for my Giraud trimmer... So in a month I'll probably have that... heh

 

[Snuby642]

I was figuring they didn't need trimmed before sized but I guess some people do it in that order.

Will a Giraurd champher inside and out on a short brass not ready to trim?

 

[GBMaryland]

Yep, you just adjust the holder, and its a second a piece

 

[918v]

Take a bore brush, dip it in copper solvent, run it/out of the die until it cleans the shit out. Spin it in a drill if you have to. It’s a small amount of brass and will come out easily if you use a good copper solvent.

 

[Red343]

it happens, use a high grit abrasive and run it thru till it cleans up or send back to the Die manufacture and they will usually clean it up for free.

 

[Bradu]

So I go downstairs I disassemble one of the dies and I find brass caked on the expander mandrel:

View attachment 7593052

I put a little bit of flitz on my Dremel tool and I proceed to start buffing..,

It doesn’t get off all of the brass because it’s on there good:


View attachment 7593054

It’s hard to tell how badly caked up the diet is but I can’t find anything small enough to get in there at a high speed and buffed it out:

View attachment 7593055

Get a cotton mop normally used for cleaning barrels, use a tight fitting one and iosso or similar product. It works great if you have to clean the die or bushings.

 

[flyfisher117]

All of my dies do this. No matter how often I clean them. Ive flat given up on them.

I've asked this very question before in other forums and I always get "ive loaded 10k rounds and never taken the die out of the press and never had this issue. "

Not sure what i am doing wrong. Lol

 

[918v]

If you can’t get it to stop then split up sizing into two steps: body sizing followed by Lee collet neck sizing.

 

[Bradu]

All of my dies do this. No matter how often I clean them. Ive flat given up on them.

I've asked this very question before in other forums and I always get "ive loaded 10k rounds and never taken the die out of the press and never had this issue. "

Not sure what i am doing wrong. Lol

Not enough lube or burr on case mouth being rolled in between case neck and die is the two most common causes. I’ve noticed Hornady brass seems to be the most problematic me for some reason.

 

[Steel head]

Take a bore brush, dip it in copper solvent, run it/out of the die until it cleans the shit out. Spin it in a drill if you have to. It’s a small amount of brass and will come out easily if you use a good copper solvent.

I’ve had that same thing happen to me and the above solved it.
I haven’t had it happen since but I’m a lot more meticulous with the lube now.

You really couldn’t see it or feel it easily but the galled brass was stuck in the neck and did a number on the necks.

 

[kthomas]

It looks like shit but it won't hurt anything.

People tend to obsess over how their brass looks, but if it doesn't change the performance, then why stress about it?

I don't understand some people's fascination with making brass look brand new after every firing.

Those scratches shouldn't hurt anything.

 

[Steel head]

People tend to obsess over how their brass looks, but if it doesn't change the performance, then why stress about it?

I don't understand some people's fascination with making brass look brand new after every firing.

Those scratches shouldn't hurt anything.