Yes that’s it . Believe me or not I was at a class that Jim was teaching. Had a problem with a sticky bolt shooting Federal gold metal match 168 Sierra mk . He took my rifle and showed me how to use the semi chrome and in about less than 5 minutes was back to like new .
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Stubborn Carbon Ring Removal
- Thread starter Cardboard Assassin
- Start date
Wow, this is surprising to me. Not that I actually know much on the topic, but the usual suspects seem to say that the ring will form just forward of the end of the neck in the lead.....1-2" in front of the throat is a new one on me.
Comments anyone?
Yes, that caught my eye too. In the pictures I posted the ring is pretty much where the brass ends.
I did reply on that topic. I'm not convinced that ring at the end of the case matters. But a clogged up throat absolutely does. I had issues with groups being....LARGE. I thought my bore was clean. Got a bore scope and learned it wasn't. Paid attention and noticed my rod is harder to pull through that area and it didn't rotate with the rifle. Learned to clean it and keep it clean. It's back to shooting. The ring at the end of the case has never changed. I've focused on trying to work on it because forum shooters freak out over it. I can't get it to change. But my accuracy is great when the throat is clean so now I don't freak out over the ring at the end of the case.
Bore scopes are great tools. But don't chase cleaning something just because you see it. Clean when you need to clean.
Abrasives will get you back to bare steel. Bronze brushes and solvents will keep your bore maintained.
Get a bore scope and see what your solvents do. I've learned HARD carbon is untouchable by solvents. I've tried many. I've gone as far at 24hr soaks and barrels plugged. A bore scope is a great investment. But it needs to be used properly.
Different guns foul differently. One shooters cleaning regime might HAVE to be different from another's. There's no one size fits all. There's no magic solvent that I've found.
Shoot your rifle. Pay attention to details. Inspect. Test. Learn. Taking everything written online and YouTube might not be the best course of action. Or it could be. Testing is the only way to know.
All of this and in addition, some bores foul at the muzzle first too. BRA with Varget is known to get hard carbon at the first several inches of the barrel.
When I clean my barrel after 100-150 rounds I can feel the carbon buildup in the bore just ahead of the chamber. It is noticeably more difficult to push the brush through that part of the bore. After two cycles of wet patching and brushing the carbon layer is gone and you can feel the same amount of resistance from the beginning to the end of the bore.
That’s another reason a bronze brush is superior to nylon- in the feedback that it provides through the cleaning rod.
That’s another reason a bronze brush is superior to nylon- in the feedback that it provides through the cleaning rod.
That's not exactly controversial. Nylon brushes are only good for patching, whether that is with abrasives or chemicals. Start with bronze and transition to nylon wrapped with patches.
Am I required to be controversial? OK. Nylon isn’t even good enough for patching. Normal people use an appropriate jag and the correct size patch for patching whose job is to get the bore wet. The bronze brush does 95% of the work in removing carbon and copper fouling. People who run nylon inevitably end up with carbon problems and then have to get bore scopes and exotic sounding solvents from German sounding vendors.
No but your obvious attempt at being constantly edgy reads more like being an insufferable twat. You don't have to try so hard, less is more.
If you clean regularly, no need for anything crazy.
This barrel had about 900 rounds on it at the time. Never seen a bronze brush (nothing against bronze). Just light brushing with nylon and patches. Of course the throat has fire cracking. But I can’t find the pics of it at that time. The cleanliness was the same though.
If you use chemicals specifically made for this stuff (skip the garage brews unless you really know what you’re doing) with a good cleaning schedule, it’s very little work and your barrel is always performing well.
This barrel had about 900 rounds on it at the time. Never seen a bronze brush (nothing against bronze). Just light brushing with nylon and patches. Of course the throat has fire cracking. But I can’t find the pics of it at that time. The cleanliness was the same though.
If you use chemicals specifically made for this stuff (skip the garage brews unless you really know what you’re doing) with a good cleaning schedule, it’s very little work and your barrel is always performing well.
Thats pretty clean.
I`m gonna clean my 6BR later and this is what I'm looking for.
Every couple/few hundred rounds. Shot all your lot of 300 cases and are gonna reload em all? Clean the barrel. Clean it after a two day match etc. where you lit off a couple hundred. Doesnt have to be after every session, just dont ignore it for a year.
Yeah for sure, can't go too much without running into carbon ring running suppressed. Groups were fantastic still but had some heavy bolt lift from the carbon ring. I need to get back on a couple hundred rounds or so schedule..
Basically what @spife7980 said.
Most of my shooting revolves around matches or practicing for matches. So, basically every 2-300 rounds I clean the barrel and get as close to “like new” as possible. Don’t go nuts with anything too abrasive. Just use chemicals (like boretech stuff) designed for this and you’ll be fine.
My schedule for example it say I’m doing a 2 day or single day match every other month:
Finish a match and clean.
Practice: 50rnds
Practice: 40rnds
Practice: 70rnds
Practice: 30rnds
Clean
Foul/zero/dope/practice for match
Shoot match
Clean
Start cycle over.
I keep a log of rounds shot, but I don’t really look at that for cleaning as I have a fairly consistent amount of matches. So I just clean when I’m done with a match and I clean before I do my dope validation before a match.
Most of my shooting revolves around matches or practicing for matches. So, basically every 2-300 rounds I clean the barrel and get as close to “like new” as possible. Don’t go nuts with anything too abrasive. Just use chemicals (like boretech stuff) designed for this and you’ll be fine.
My schedule for example it say I’m doing a 2 day or single day match every other month:
Finish a match and clean.
Practice: 50rnds
Practice: 40rnds
Practice: 70rnds
Practice: 30rnds
Clean
Foul/zero/dope/practice for match
Shoot match
Clean
Start cycle over.
I keep a log of rounds shot, but I don’t really look at that for cleaning as I have a fairly consistent amount of matches. So I just clean when I’m done with a match and I clean before I do my dope validation before a match.
For the purpose of informing those seeking methods to remove a true carbon ring: most of what is described in this thread (and every other thread on this subject on every other website) is just people relaying their standard cleaning methods. It is clear that very few people can distinguish carbon build up from an actual carbon ring. Naturally you will try the chemicals first, but if it is being stubborn then you likely have an actual carbon ring (so do not get stuck on cycling chemicals if it seems like you're pissing in the wind). Once a carbon ring is truly burned in like ceramic, then chemicals are not going to do much good. **Pay close attention to the proper methods to use products like: JB, Iosso, Simichrome, etc. Abrasives (mild or otherwise) are going to be your route going forward, so dig for the best methods on how to use these. Definitely Note what the Benchmark owner says about his method of using Simichrome.**
This is after 3 days of using methods off several reputable forums. I've spent so much time and scrubbed so much (90% of it fruitlessly with pointless chemicals / methods), that I am wondering if my 22 creedmoor will group like a shotgun. Hopefully, the next poor soul in the same predicament can use this to shorten their search.
This is after 3 days of using methods off several reputable forums. I've spent so much time and scrubbed so much (90% of it fruitlessly with pointless chemicals / methods), that I am wondering if my 22 creedmoor will group like a shotgun. Hopefully, the next poor soul in the same predicament can use this to shorten their search.
Not to be unkind, but have you tried the CLR soak for 10-15 minutes? Because that would've saved you three days of grief, I'd wager.
You wager that after 3+ days of combing through SnipersHide, Rokslide, LongRangeHunting, YouTube, etc, that I just skipped over the method mentioned dozens of times??? (To the guy posting below you, next time just face palm yourself with a hammer
)Overnighted with Kroil, overnighted with Wipeout, long BoreTech soaks (C4, Cu+2, Eliminator), Sweets 7.62, Montana Extreme Copper Killer, JB bore paste, Simichrome.... all multiple times. I used nylon brushes, bronze brushes, felt pellets, nylon brush with a patch wrap, bronze brush with a patch wrap, oversized brushes, leaving long soaked swabs in the throat, etc. I alternated carbon and copper cleaners, penetrating oil and abrasives, etc. And yes, I somehow managed to use a simple to find cleaner mentioned on literally every thread and Erik Cortina's channel= I CLR soaked 15-20min (many times), 30min, and an hour.... no joy. I threw the kitchen sink at it since the alternative was a new barrel. Hence, I posted hoping the next guy does not screw with chemicals for days on end (scrubbing a premium rifle barrel more than five guns get scrubbed in a lifetime).
Once, I horsed a bronze brush with a 7.62 Sweets patch through and knocked a small layer out... which I was unable to duplicate again after multiple attempts. Simichrome attempt 3 [this time using the Benchmark mentioned manner] was the big breakthrough= 80% gone. Still working the last bit out with JB, since I may have already over played my hand with Simichrome.
I mean…..it’s not like this place isn’t filled with top notch, experienced shooters that have been all through this shit multiple times.You wager that after 3+ days of combing through SnipersHide, Rokslide, LongRangeHunting, YouTube, etc, that I just skipped over the method mentioned dozens of times??? (To the guy posting below you, next time just face palm yourself with a hammer
Overnighted with Kroil, overnighted with Wipeout, long BoreTech soaks (C4, Cu+2, Eliminator), Sweets 7.62, Montana Extreme Copper Killer, JB bore paste, Simichrome.... all multiple times. I used nylon brushes, bronze brushes, felt pellets, nylon brush with a patch wrap, bronze brush with a patch wrap, oversized brushes, leaving long soaked swabs in the throat, etc. I alternated carbon and copper cleaners, penetrating oil and abrasives, etc. And yes, I somehow managed to use a simple to find cleaner mentioned on literally every thread and Erik Cortina's channel= I CLR soaked 15-20min (many times), 30min, and an hour.... no joy. I threw the kitchen sink at it since the alternative was a new barrel. Hence, I posted hoping the next guy does not screw with chemicals for days on end (scrubbing a premium rifle barrel more than five guns get scrubbed in a lifetime).
Once, I horsed a bronze brush with a 7.62 Sweets patch through and knocked a small layer out... which I was unable to duplicate again after multiple attempts. Simichrome attempt 3 [this time using the Benchmark mentioned manner] was the big breakthrough= 80% gone. Still working the last bit out with JB, since I may have already over played my hand with Simichrome.
You think you’re the first person to get a carbon ring? "Top notch, experienced shooters": which leaves the other 80% as people missing the mark... or, (as in your case), dying to make stupid comments that contribute nothing to the thread topic.I mean…..it’s not like this place isn’t filled with top notch, experienced shooters that have been all through this shit multiple times.
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....FWIW, I tried the CLR method on my 10.1" 300BLK SS barrel which is at least 10 years old and unknown mega-quantity of loads thru it. I was testing out the Teslong borescope I amazon'ed and as expected, the barrel had plenty of carbon build up. Admittedly, I don't spend a whole bunch of time cleaning this particular barrel, my typical routine is after using (range, whatever) I pull a boresnake thru it a few times then a lightly wet patch to coat the bore against rust. I ran a CLR soaked patch in the chamber and down the barrel for a few passes then followed by a bronze brush after less than 10 minutes. Followed that with some alcohol soaked patches to neutralize the CLR and clean out the bore then scoped it again. I must admit, I was pleasantly surprised, more than 90% of the carbon was gone, just some lingering spots down in the lands grooves along the edges of the land. Repeated the process with a really wet patch a couple of passes and waited less than 5 minutes then brass brushed it a few passes. Scoped it and was actually amazed, looked brand new...unforunately also showed the signs of fire-cracking beginning 
...I neutralized the CLR with alcohol then oil patched it and put away. Scoped it a couple weeks later just to check effects of CLR and nothing, still prisitine!
For me at least, CLR works and I'll probably use it from now on in my stainless barrels. I do know it will discolor blued parts, tested a drop on a blued muzzle thread protector... YMMV
...I have an older 4150 CMV Nitrided barrel I may test it on too eventually...
...I neutralized the CLR with alcohol then oil patched it and put away. Scoped it a couple weeks later just to check effects of CLR and nothing, still prisitine!
For me at least, CLR works and I'll probably use it from now on in my stainless barrels. I do know it will discolor blued parts, tested a drop on a blued muzzle thread protector... YMMV...I have an older 4150 CMV Nitrided barrel I may test it on too eventually...
I know this is an old post, but I have questions maybe some of you can help with. I just purchased a borescope. I thought I had been doing a good job cleaning the bore. I was wrong! I followed a lot of advice from you guys on cleaning and carbon removal. A thorough cleaning with bore tech eliminator and c-4 got me pretty cleaned up. I then switched to the bronze brush and free-all, and followed that up with jb bore paste. The barrel looks pretty clean now, except the grooves near the muzzle end! They are still black, about 4-5" into the barrel from the muzzle end. So, couple questions here. Is that normal? Is that a problem? And finally how to get it clean at the muzzle end? I get a little nervous about damaging the crown. The crown looks clean. Just can't figure out what to do about the black in the grooves near the crown. The rifle is a Ruger RPR in .308 with probably 1500 rounds through it. I load what I can get my hands on, so powders have ranged between 4064, 3031, tac, blc-2, varget, and probably a few more I can't think of. 20" barrel, most loads were on the lighter side, and most were 168 and 175 grain match king bullets. Thanks for any advice!
Try CLR. Get a patch nice and soaked with CLR and push it through until it’s right at where the stubborn carbon is built Uk and let it sit and soak there for 5-10 minutes. Then try to brush out with a bronze brush. May have to do it more than once but it should eventually clean up. CLR cuts carbon like nothing I’ve ever seen before.
Thanks. I'll give the CLR a try. I just thought it was weird that all the borescope videos I've watched, never showed much carbon build up in the muzzle end. Seems like it's always near the throat. Thanks again for the tip.
Sweets 7.62 solvent. It’s great on copper but also cuts through carbon better than the new fangled shit.
I've got some sweets. What do you follow it with to remove the sweets? I heard it can damage shit if left on too long. Just patch it out with hoppes or something?
As it says on the last line of instructions on the bottle, a rust preventative like their oil. CLP, Kroil, Mobil1 etc. will all work.
You're not alone ... I thought that is weird too ... any time I've had carbon build-up it's always been at the chamber end. With normal cleaning, the muzzle end of my barrels are always the cleanest part of the rifle.
you will need to use an abrasive like iooso to get that stubborn carbon out. Post #50 gives a good procedure but I use Iooso on a cotton patch wrapped tightly around a jag.
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Thanks. Mine is not in the original container. Friend gave me some, so didn’t see the instructions for use.
If you don’t think you can get carbon build up at Muzzle then take a close look at your brake . First thing I do when cleaning my rifles is remove brake and let it sit in a bottle of bore tech carbon cleaner for a couple of days. When I pull it out let bottle sit and then look at all the carbon that settles on the bottom of bottle.
Personally, for deep soaking of some carbon, ring at chamber or anywhere else, I prefer to use a bore mop soaked with Bore Tech carbon remover.
Also, I’m not trying to strip every inch of the barrel down to bare shiny steel. I think I can do more damage than good pursuing that.
Just me.
