I have a Muzzlebrake that I can't get off a gun. It is cerakoted and not suppose to be lock tited on. I have put it in a vice and put some serious torque on it and just bent the screwdriver, I've tried to heat it up with a torch just enough not to discolor the cerakote and still couldn't get it off, I tried PB penetrating oil, Nope, didn't work either. Can this this really be "Cold Welded" on the barrel or is that just a myth? Any help/tips on getting this brake off would be appreciated.
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Gunsmithing Stuck Muzzlebrake, Any Suggestions on getting a brake off? Is Cold Weld possible??
- Thread starter kgoltz
- Start date
Other possibility is the use of Rockset as a thread locker. That should release with a 24hr soaking in water. It's cheap and easy to try.
Andrew
Andrew
No I didn't put it on but the gun builder did and they said they don't use lock tite, or pin or weld their brakes on. The only concern I have is that they cleaned the gun really good to cerakote it and they did not put any grease on the threads so I'm concerned it could have "cold Welded" itself together.
I had one that was really dry once on an FAL. And they torqued the hell out of it. It just took a LOT of torque to get it off. Be careful you don't damage your barrel if it's that tight. If you've tried heat and you're sure they don't use any thread locker, then penetrating oil is about all you have to work with. That or rebarrel or cut and rethread if it's worth doing that.
Soaking in hot water, then leave overnight, then soak again in hot water while you get your tools together is a good way of removing one with Rocksett, just be sure you thoroughly clean the barrel and all after so you don't get rust down in the barrel from water accidentally falling in there.
If it's on there that tight then there could be a chance of it affecting accuracy. If it's a good barrel now, check it after to be sure. Generally these things don't get torqued on all that tight anymore and even when you do with a crush washer, the crush washer takes up a lot of the stress. I've taken to using red loctite recently and had much better luck with it regarding removals and overall performance. My problem is I can't remember what was done with what!
Soaking in hot water, then leave overnight, then soak again in hot water while you get your tools together is a good way of removing one with Rocksett, just be sure you thoroughly clean the barrel and all after so you don't get rust down in the barrel from water accidentally falling in there.
If it's on there that tight then there could be a chance of it affecting accuracy. If it's a good barrel now, check it after to be sure. Generally these things don't get torqued on all that tight anymore and even when you do with a crush washer, the crush washer takes up a lot of the stress. I've taken to using red loctite recently and had much better luck with it regarding removals and overall performance. My problem is I can't remember what was done with what!
- Mar 15, 2018
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Galling is a definite possibility; I always use Aeroshell on brakes, buffer tubes, castle nuts, etc. Loctite would have been a good thing as well as it acts as a lubricant. If the metals have galled it is virtually impossible to separate them without cutting. You could try a really big wrench but if it were me I'd count my losses and find a well regarded Gunsmith. Or you could just leave it...
Thats been the problem so far, I don't want to ruin the barrel by clamping too tight, it is a carbon barrel which adds to the mix!!
Dang...did you use a 36" pipe wrench??
at this pt you are running out of options. Torque and heat OR part it off. Your choice.
DT
No but I might resort to it!! Used a screw driver with a short piece of pipe to get some leverage!! Dang thing is stuck!! May repeat with the heat and go hotter this time, if I wreck the cerakote at least I can use the suppressor!
"No but I might resort to it!! Used a screw driver with a short piece of pipe to get some leverage!! Dang thing is stuck!! May repeat with the heat and go hotter this time, if I wreck the cerakote at least I can use the suppressor "
If it's galled you ain't gonna be using the can either. Sounds to me like you need to get it to someone who knows what he is doing before you fuck it up.
If it's galled you ain't gonna be using the can either. Sounds to me like you need to get it to someone who knows what he is doing before you fuck it up.
What is the composition/structure of that carbon fiber barrel at the muzzle?
There are always concerns about too much torque at the muzzle, and knowing jack shit about carbon fiber/liner construction at the muzzle I'd want to find out. I'm sure someone here has that knowledge...
There are always concerns about too much torque at the muzzle, and knowing jack shit about carbon fiber/liner construction at the muzzle I'd want to find out. I'm sure someone here has that knowledge...
Kroil!!!! Put it on and let it sit.
After a day of sitting reapply
Next day attempt to get the entire assy cold. Chest freezer will work. After 8 hrs in the cold pull it out and heat the brake with heat gun or hair dryer fast!
Then apply torque. Make sure you are turning correct direction!!
After a day of sitting reapply
Next day attempt to get the entire assy cold. Chest freezer will work. After 8 hrs in the cold pull it out and heat the brake with heat gun or hair dryer fast!
Then apply torque. Make sure you are turning correct direction!!
I have a way.... Get a badass impact... Like the milwaukee lithium 1/2inch once. Put a big socket on it, so it goes over the brake. Cut the socket so you can slide 1-2 or 3 screwdrivers through the brake, and the socket will go over each side of the screwdriver( or other tool like that). Put the drill on max revese and send that bitch home..... I hope you have strong vice because something is going to give...
+10 for Kroil. Not as easy to get locally any more but it really gets into some tight places. Might not work Magic if it is really galled...but it cant hurt.
And no, CF barrels don't love gorilla torque on the muzzle. The “small” diameter steel pipe bonded to the carbon fiber jacket is strong....but not invincible...
A penetrating oil and heat/cold are your friends on this adventure.
Good luck,
ZY
And no, CF barrels don't love gorilla torque on the muzzle. The “small” diameter steel pipe bonded to the carbon fiber jacket is strong....but not invincible...
A penetrating oil and heat/cold are your friends on this adventure.
Good luck,
ZY
D
Deleted member 10043
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Didn’t read all the previous posts......but, if both the brake and the barrel are stainless and you didn’t put anti seize on it, you’re probably screwed. Had that happen once, had to turn (cut down) the brake off the barrel.
If it really galled on, I would recommend having a gunsmith machine the brake off of the barrel and clean up the threads. Not that hard to do. You'll lose the brake, but you'll be able to use the barrel as intended.
I'm betting the threads weren't to spec and they are now galled. In other words you're only solution is what Mordamer suggested.
And if that nice carbon barrel is ruined I'd give your "gunsmith" the bill for a new barrel that a more competent gunsmith installs and threads the muzzle correctly.
And if that nice carbon barrel is ruined I'd give your "gunsmith" the bill for a new barrel that a more competent gunsmith installs and threads the muzzle correctly.
You can always resort to extreme measures..... TIG weld a 1/2" drive impact socket on the break and impact it off.
Before going to this extreme, I'd make sure I'd put enough heat to the break with a cold towel or dry ice wrap on the barrel. The Cerakote is the last thing to worry about. This AAC QD was used to chase threads of a previously pinned break.... problem was the pin was still proud in the threads and a Gorilla was doing the work.
Before going to this extreme, I'd make sure I'd put enough heat to the break with a cold towel or dry ice wrap on the barrel. The Cerakote is the last thing to worry about. This AAC QD was used to chase threads of a previously pinned break.... problem was the pin was still proud in the threads and a Gorilla was doing the work.
Damn now that looks like fun!! I think I'll mill it off before going to that extreme!!You can always resort to extreme measures..... TIG weld a 1/2" drive impact socket on the break and impact it off.
Before going to this extreme, I'd make sure I'd put enough heat to the break with a cold towel or dry ice wrap on the barrel. The Cerakote is the last thing to worry about. This AAC QD was used to chase threads of a previously pinned break.... problem was the pin was still proud in the threads and a Gorilla was doing the work.
I am also on the side of machining it off. Carefully. Make someone else do it, who is sure they can, doesn't look sideways and "hmmm" a lot when you bring it to them.
Start looking at costs. How much did the brake cost vs the barrel? Always be willing to kill the cheaper part. Lots of expensive things have been damaged throughout history by someone trying to save a relatively cheap part.
Start looking at costs. How much did the brake cost vs the barrel? Always be willing to kill the cheaper part. Lots of expensive things have been damaged throughout history by someone trying to save a relatively cheap part.
If there is a welding gas store nearby you could try increasing the temperature differential between the brake and the barrel by combining dry ice with the torch. Most welding gas dealers sell dry ice and it's not very expensive.
Temperature differential is very effective but if you just heat the brake with a torch, the barrel heats up too, so you don't get the temperature differential you are looking for... but if you put dry ice around the barrel to keep it cold as hell when you heat the brake, that will increase the clearance between the two components... I'll bet you'll get it off in a jiffy.
Temperature differential is very effective but if you just heat the brake with a torch, the barrel heats up too, so you don't get the temperature differential you are looking for... but if you put dry ice around the barrel to keep it cold as hell when you heat the brake, that will increase the clearance between the two components... I'll bet you'll get it off in a jiffy.
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I hate snap on personally. The method I posted was mostly for fun. But you could put the thing in a deep freeze over night. Then use oxy acetylene to heat the brake (don't get it all the way to red). That could help you out. You could combine this with an impact or use an air chisel on the brake itself, pushing towards counterclockwise.
I assume your a fully capable person in all these areas when mentioning this. If not, maybe you are better off dropping bills. IF the threads are thrashed you're in for Smith work anyways.
- Mar 15, 2018
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I was thinking about this again today; I'm pretty sure someone already said it, but are you positive it's not left hand threaded? That is not at all unusual for barrels. You could always try turning it the other way, at this point it doesn't sound like you could get it on any tighter and if it is a right hand thread tightening it just a smidge may actually help loosen it up. Just a thought.
I'm with Rubicon here. Unless they managed to gall it while tightening it, I doubt that's the problem. Galling usually goes something like:
Torque the hell out of it, small budge, resistance shows up, resistance gets worse, won't budge again, either way.
If you never popped it loose to begin with it's probably just on there really tight and has been through a bunch of heat cycles with high pressure exhaust getting into the mix.
ETA: I'm in the "machine off the brake" crowd. I'd start with a relief cut on the back side of the brake and if you encounter any resistance while spinning it off, turn down the diameter of the brake until you peel the female (brake) threads out of the barrel threads.
Torque the hell out of it, small budge, resistance shows up, resistance gets worse, won't budge again, either way.
If you never popped it loose to begin with it's probably just on there really tight and has been through a bunch of heat cycles with high pressure exhaust getting into the mix.
ETA: I'm in the "machine off the brake" crowd. I'd start with a relief cut on the back side of the brake and if you encounter any resistance while spinning it off, turn down the diameter of the brake until you peel the female (brake) threads out of the barrel threads.
Took the gun to my smith and he tried to heat the brake to where he felt comfortable not wrecking the barrel and couldn't get the damn thing to budge!! Getting it milled off and go from there.
Any ideas on how NOT to have this problem again? Grease the threads and NOT over tighten the brake to begin with?
Any ideas on how NOT to have this problem again? Grease the threads and NOT over tighten the brake to begin with?
Make sure the threads are in spec. Look up the thread specs on the Thunder Beast website and have him follow those.
First, try to determine what caused the condition. I use nickel anti-seize on muzzle threads. Torque to 20-30 ft. lbs.
This has happened to us on occassion. I call the client with two choices:
1. I can machine off the brake and attempt to save the barrel.
2. I can cut off the brake and ID bore the threaded plug stuck inside.
#2 is my go to whenever possible as it usually results in a brake that can be used again without consequence. Threading a barrel is a no brainer and provided the 16" rule isn't being trampled upon, it's of little to no consequence.
OP, you've taken a reasonable approach to this. If you got it hot enough to discolor cerakote, then you have an issue and its not locktite.
My guess is it seized itself due to contaminates (cerakote blast media being likely possibility) or the quality of machine work left a bit to be desired. Barrel steels are not all that dissimilar from grade 5 hardware store bolts. Any of us have the expectation of putting a bolt on/off a nut an almost infinite amount of times without this happening. SS or carbon. The expectation is the same within reason. There's no explanation why it should not be the same here provided machinists are doing their jobs and delivering parts with the appropriate dimensions and surface finish.
The exception: On "spaghetti contour" sporter barrels using a brake, I quite often literally epoxy the brake to the barrel. The reason is quite good. If for instance a 30 caliber barrel is a #2 or even a #3, I am going to try to use the largest thread size I can. This is because I am after a minimum of .100" wall thickness at the crown. Doing so often results in a paper thin shoulder where the brake snugs up. It is just way too easy to overclock the brake and bellmouth the face. Once this happens, you are stuck. It'll never look right or time up properly again. Having a few incidents like this resulted in a command decision. I started gluing the brakes on. (this circumstance only) It's never been an issue since.
So, if this is one we installed and its on a light contour stick, it's glued with stuff that isn't going to be user friendly. (We make it a point to advise clients of this ahead of time.)
Regardless:
Unless there's a valid reason to remove the brake, leave it on. Let nature run its course and shoot the barrel out first. If your brake is gunked up with "gun fungus" an easy/painless way to clean it is to boil the muzzle end in a pot of scorching hot Prestone antifreeze. Might sound a bit wierd, but it works surprisingly well and won't harm the finish in the least.
Good luck.
C.
1. I can machine off the brake and attempt to save the barrel.
2. I can cut off the brake and ID bore the threaded plug stuck inside.
#2 is my go to whenever possible as it usually results in a brake that can be used again without consequence. Threading a barrel is a no brainer and provided the 16" rule isn't being trampled upon, it's of little to no consequence.
OP, you've taken a reasonable approach to this. If you got it hot enough to discolor cerakote, then you have an issue and its not locktite.
My guess is it seized itself due to contaminates (cerakote blast media being likely possibility) or the quality of machine work left a bit to be desired. Barrel steels are not all that dissimilar from grade 5 hardware store bolts. Any of us have the expectation of putting a bolt on/off a nut an almost infinite amount of times without this happening. SS or carbon. The expectation is the same within reason. There's no explanation why it should not be the same here provided machinists are doing their jobs and delivering parts with the appropriate dimensions and surface finish.
The exception: On "spaghetti contour" sporter barrels using a brake, I quite often literally epoxy the brake to the barrel. The reason is quite good. If for instance a 30 caliber barrel is a #2 or even a #3, I am going to try to use the largest thread size I can. This is because I am after a minimum of .100" wall thickness at the crown. Doing so often results in a paper thin shoulder where the brake snugs up. It is just way too easy to overclock the brake and bellmouth the face. Once this happens, you are stuck. It'll never look right or time up properly again. Having a few incidents like this resulted in a command decision. I started gluing the brakes on. (this circumstance only) It's never been an issue since.
So, if this is one we installed and its on a light contour stick, it's glued with stuff that isn't going to be user friendly. (We make it a point to advise clients of this ahead of time.)
Regardless:
Unless there's a valid reason to remove the brake, leave it on. Let nature run its course and shoot the barrel out first. If your brake is gunked up with "gun fungus" an easy/painless way to clean it is to boil the muzzle end in a pot of scorching hot Prestone antifreeze. Might sound a bit wierd, but it works surprisingly well and won't harm the finish in the least.
Good luck.
C.
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If you don't want it to ever freeze on, then you could select a split ring muzzle brake like the Cadex MX1.
There's no way it can freeze on.
I'm sure there must be others who manufacture split ring brakes like the MX1 if you prefer something smaller.
Here's one from Beretta.
https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/sako-trg-22-42-muzzle-brake/s5740412/
There's no way it can freeze on.
I'm sure there must be others who manufacture split ring brakes like the MX1 if you prefer something smaller.
Here's one from Beretta.
https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/sako-trg-22-42-muzzle-brake/s5740412/
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What if i dip it water and put it in the freezer... wont that make it "freeze" on
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