Rifle Scopes Stupid Question and Thoughts on Used Glass Pricing

[1911hombre]

I have noticed that the market price on certain used scopes has quite drastically dropped recently. Leupold Mark 5HD's, ATACR 5-25's, others. Is it a case of not being "latest, greatest", or in the case of the 5-25 ATACR did the 7-35 take the wind out of it's sails? Is it also a seasonal thing?

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

i think its a little bit of the things you pointed out. not just necessarily latest greatest, but theres also a lot more options than just 5 years ago. both in terms of manufacturers, but also scope features.

that and with the growth in popularity of long range shooting you probably have some cases where people invested maybe more $ than they should at msrp prices, and when they get in a pinch they sell down in price just to get out what they can. its all supply and demand.

 

[wade2big]

I think you and the last poster nailed it. I will add that an item is worth what people will pay. Period.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I have noticed that the market price on certain used scopes has quite drastically dropped recently. Leupold Mark 5HD's, ATACR 5-25's, others. Is it a case of not being "latest, greatest", or in the case of the 5-25 ATACR did the 7-35 take the wind out of it's sails? Is it also a seasonal thing?

The longer a certain model is out, the more there are on the used market. Classic supply/demand and the price goes down.

As far as the particular case of the atacr, yes, the 7-35 definitely didn’t help it. You don’t lose a lot on the low end and you get the 35x on the upper. And the parallax goes down much lower. Almost no negatives and all positives vs the 5-25.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

The new Mark5HD 7-35 probably affected the 5-25 price just like the ATACR situation.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

There's A LOT that has affected and affects the market. The biggest IMO:

1. Time of year. Sales always drop on the summer and pick back up in the fall. Both private sale and commercial.

2. Political climate. Sales are always better all around when people are panicking. Even for accessories like scopes for precision guns that likely would never be effected by a ban (not at first anyhow). When people are gun focused, they are gun focused all around.

3. Desirability of the item.


More options being available absolutely changes the game too.


I also have a theory that the drop in forum participation with all of the other social media as well as increase in scammers (making people more hesitant to shop the used market) has significantly hurt the secondary market. Great for buyers, horrible for resale value on your used stuff.

 

[acudaowner]

I plan on waiting to see what if anything new and what's different so I can compare .besides then It gives me more time to save a bit more money .

 

[lash]

There's A LOT that has affected and affects the market. The biggest IMO:

1. Time of year. Sales always drop on the summer and pick back up in the fall. Both private sale and commercial.

2. Political climate. Sales are always better all around when people are panicking. Even for accessories like scopes for precision guns that likely would never be effected by a ban (not at first anyhow). When people are gun focused, they are gun focused all around.

3. Desirability of the item.


More options being available absolutely changes the game too.


I also have a theory that the drop in forum participation with all of the other social media as well as increase in scammers (making people more hesitant to shop the used market) has significantly hurt the secondary market. Great for buyers, horrible for resale value on your used stuff.

This, plus plenty of the other reasons listed above. Plus, it seems that we have a thread like this just about every fall we have a thread like this. I think that people are anticipating the purchase of the latest thing to be released at shot and are willing to take a loss to move on.
I’ve seen these threads for just about any of the higher end scopes over the years.

 

[jbailey]

Love it! almost wish I had an optic to buy. Great deals abound in the PX. I have never purchased a new optic, nor do I plan to.

 

[Huskydriver]

It's called vortex brought a sledgehammer into the optics industry that has caused a serious change in market prices....ie Leupold is struggling to sell turd scopes. NF is fine but will still probably continue to adjust their prices similarly like SB has in order to stay competitive

 

[beetroot]

It's called vortex brought a sledgehammer into the optics industry that has caused a serious change in market prices....ie Leupold is struggling to sell turd scopes. NF is fine but will still probably continue to adjust their prices similarly like SB has in order to stay competitive

Huh?
What model Vortex has come to the market and effected Leupold Mark 5HD used prices?

 

[DOA]

Huh?
What model Vortex has come to the market and effected Leupold Mark 5HD used prices?

Im guessing the MSRP drop of the Razor Gen 2 models.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Scopes aren't rare and they aren't in jeopardy of legal restrictions. There are a ton of players in the OE game and it's driving down the market value.

 

[Huskydriver]

Huh?
What model Vortex has come to the market and effected Leupold Mark 5HD used prices?

Lupy *used* to command a premium back a few years ago before the gen 2 razors came into play. Back where high end glass like sb pmii scopes were 5k and high end lupys were 4k. Without going into all the nitty gritty of market forces... Vortex forced the market and customer demand into a different price to value point in a very short period of time....

New and old customers started asking why spend 3-5k on scope with very questionable warrenty when vortex gives you 90% of a sb without the price tag... And some better features that arnt 20 years old.

Alot of folks have bit into this game and that's why all of the sudden every scope maker now has their form of a unconditional warrenty and their prices have dropped across the board for the most part in order to stave off some market share loss.

Leupold has had very questionable warrenty service in the past and their current line up is dramatically overpriced in return for value. If this were not the case, you would see their used offerings command a higher premium.

The mk5s I have shot from behind were terrible for the money I would have traded then in a heart beat for another razor

 

[theLBC]

Im guessing the MSRP drop of the Razor Gen 2 models.

that is a great product at a great price, but imho, it doesn't compete with the 5HD in clarity, adj. range, or turret quality.
that said, it is more than functional for about half the price of the 5HD so I imagine it could put some price pressure on the others.

 

[beetroot]

Lupy *used* to command a premium back a few years ago before the gen 2 razors came into play. Back where high end glass like sb pmii scopes were 5k and high end lupys were 4k. Without going into all the nitty gritty of market forces... Vortex forced the market and customer demand into a different price to value point in a very short period of time....

New and old customers started asking why spend 3-5k on scope with very questionable warrenty when vortex gives you 90% of a sb without the price tag... And some better features that arnt 20 years old.

Alot of folks have bit into this game and that's why all of the sudden every scope maker now has their form of a unconditional warrenty and their prices have dropped across the board for the most part in order to stave off some market share loss.

Leupold has had very questionable warrenty service in the past and their current line up is dramatically overpriced in return for value. If this were not the case, you would see their used offerings command a higher premium.

The mk5s I have shot from behind were terrible for the money I would have traded then in a heart beat for another razor

Regardles of your opinion, the Razor and AMG has had no effect on Leupold Mark 5 prices dropping, based purely on the Mark 5 being a newer scope.

 

[Huskydriver]

Regardles of your opinion, the Razor and AMG has had no effect on Leupold Mark 5 prices dropping, based purely on the Mark 5 being a newer scope.

If you think that you obviously have 0 understanding of the market.... Again people realize there are better scopes for the money period... Don't get butt hurt because you rock a Leupold and the market currently isn't a fan lol

 

[theLBC]

Regardles of your opinion, the Razor and AMG has had no effect on Leupold Mark 5 prices dropping, based purely on the Mark 5 being a newer scope.

right, i am guessing that some of the first owners may have paid close to msrp, but when i was shopping this year it wasn't hard to find them around 20-25% off, so what was a $2500 scope (or $2800 if you wanted the H59 like me) was more like $2k, and used sellers have to discount from the discount (which is great for shoppers).

the vortex is 1/2 that, so for folks on a tighter budget, it is an easy choice.

 

[theLBC]

If you think that you obviously have 0 understanding of the market.... Again people realize there are better scopes for the money period... Don't get butt hurt because you rock a Leupold and the market currently isn't a fan lol

the market is growing pretty fast, and most new shooters might not care about small differences in clarity, turret qulaity, adjustment range, size and weight.
"better scopes for the money" is kind of subjective.
is there a "better" scope of the size and weight of the 5HD 3.6-18x44 w/H59 with at least 29mils of adjustment for the same money?
i dunno but it is too late for me

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Regardles of your opinion, the Razor and AMG has had no effect on Leupold Mark 5 prices dropping, based purely on the Mark 5 being a newer scope.

That's crazy talk. The Razor Gen2, Bushy XRS2, Steiner T5, Eotech Somethingorother, etc compete head to head with the MK5. All of the $1.5k - $2.5k OEM scopes compete with the MK5. You'd be pretty foolish to think they aren't putting downward pressure on Leupold pricing, especially second hand.

 

[beetroot]

If you think that you obviously have 0 understanding of the market.... Again people realize there are better scopes for the money period... Don't get butt hurt because you rock a Leupold and the market currently isn't a fan lol

No butt hurt here.
Just don't understand how a product that only 2 years old gets devalued by a 5 year old product.

There are several reasons why the used pric of Leupolds and ATACRs has dropped, Vortex is just not one of them.

 

[beetroot]

That's crazy talk. The Razor Gen2, Bushy XRS2, Steiner T5, Eotech Somethingorother, etc compete head to head with the MK5. All of the $1.5k - $2.5k OEM scopes compete with the MK5. You'd be pretty foolish to think they aren't putting downward pressure on Leupold pricing, especially second hand.

They do effect the used value, just don't explain the current drop in used value that this whole thread is supposed to be about.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

No butt hurt here.
Just don't understand how a product that only 2 years old gets devalued by a 5 year old product.

There are several reasons why the used pric of Leupolds and ATACRs has dropped, Vortex is just not one of them.

Because Leupold's 2 year old scope was three years behind when it was introduced. As has been the case for the last 30 years, Leupold is still playing catch up.

 

[Pharmer909]

It has more to do with China and the Philippines. Advancements in CNC machining and outsourcing the labor to China and Philippines has allowed your average Joe to get good quality glass,optical coating and have them assembled in these countries. Some of these Chinese made scope parts are made with German and Swedish precision equipment that was shipped to China. When Burris moved scope manufacturing to the Philippines, they unbolted most of their equipment from the USA factory and had it shipped overseas

 

[beetroot]

Because Leupold's 2 year old scope was three years behind when it was introduced. As has been the case for the last 30 years, Leupold is still playing catch up.

Did you actually read the first post in the thread?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Did you actually read the first post in the thread?

Yes, did you?

 

[magtech]

I picked up a demo xrs2 for $1100. Why would I pay double that for a MK5, lol. Like the zp5 discount (50%.) The problem with MSRP is that it's marked up sky high. The military-discounts cut most prices in halfish(for new). So you'd only expect a used to go cheaper. That's really why you can get scopes so cheap. The razor has a ton floating around and a ton for sale. If you want to sell yours before the next guy you sell it cheaper.. Tada.

 

[theLBC]

No butt hurt here.
Just don't understand how a product that only 2 years old gets devalued by a 5 year old product.

There are several reasons why the used pric of Leupolds and ATACRs has dropped, Vortex is just not one of them.

cost of lenses are going down, due to cost of materials dropping.

(according to engineers at leupold)
one reason the Mark 8 was so expensive when it came out is that one lens in the scope cost Leupold $800 by itself.
this lens was made from a type of glass that was scarce and expensive to make.

economies of scale worked in our favor as demand for the Mark 8 created a need for the glass, and so now it is made in larger quantities.
every lens in the Mark 5HD is made from this glass.
the popularity of the 5HD should drive the lens costs down even more (for everyone)

 

[beetroot]

I picked up a demo xrs2 for $1100. Why would I pay double that for a MK5, lol. Like the zp5 discount (50%.) The problem with MSRP is that it's marked up sky high. The military-discounts cut most prices in halfish(for new). So you'd only expect a used to go cheaper. That's really why you can get scopes so cheap. The razor has a ton floating around and a ton for sale. If you want to sell yours before the next guy you sell it cheaper.. Tada.

Exactly.
When a new scope comes to the market and is somewhat scarce/uncommon then you can ask a higher price used or near new.
Once there are a heap on the market then you can no longer expect to get close to the retail price, especially if there is competition in the used market.

The fall in 2nd hand prices has nothing to do with the cost of manufacture, or a perceived out dated design.
Supply and demand, time on market, an updated version (atacr 7-35) or new competition will cause a drop in used prices (as thats what this thread is about) not competition that was already on the market for years, as that would've effeced the price from day one.

 

[Huskydriver]

Exactly.
When a new scope comes to the market and is somewhat scarce/uncommon then you can ask a higher price used or near new.
Once there are a heap on the market then you can no longer expect to get close to the retail price, especially if there is competition in the used market.

The fall in 2nd hand prices has nothing to do with the cost of manufacture, or a perceived out dated design.
Supply and demand, time on market, an updated version (atacr 7-35) or new competition will cause a drop in used prices (as thats what this thread is about) not competition that was already on the market for years, as that would've effeced the price from day one.

Vortex released 2.5 new reticles and dropped the price this year... The effect was almost like a new realese on the market. They were sold Out of h59 ebr7c and trem3 razors for like 3-4 months trying to catch up so yes the razor unfortunately is still hammering the market much to benefit of the consumer. It's a great time to be buying scopes right now at unheard of deald. I was on a thread last night for a h59 sd pmii. Those go what almost 3.6k or something new... Selling it for 2200 bucks... Pretty sure the guy is rocking a g2 razor too but could be wrong lol

 

[theLBC]

It has more to do with China and the Philippines. Advancements in CNC machining and outsourcing the labor to China and Philippines has allowed your average Joe to get good quality glass,optical coating and have them assembled in these countries. Some of these Chinese made scope parts are made with German and Swedish precision equipment that was shipped to China. When Burris moved scope manufacturing to the Philippines, they unbolted most of their equipment from the USA factory and had it shipped overseas

this is one reason leupold is pricey.
they outsource the lenses from japan. apart from that, all parts are sourced in the US and 100% of the assembly and inspection is done in Oregon.

personally, i would rather pay for something with american workers behind it.
but that's just me.

 

[1911hombre]

Well, lots of opinions on this and they probably all have some sort of merit. I am not a Leupold fan-boy but I will say my Mk5 HD 5-25x56 is super clear to my eye. I also bought it used.

 

[Dev L]

Wish there was a cheaper alternative to the 3.6-18×44 Mark5HD from Vortex or anyone else... but there is not.

Also, where are these low used Mark5 prices you speak of for sale? Checking the first three pages they are selling used scopes at basically new prices... some have mounts ir rings included and free shipping but that is it.

ACTUAL on sale prices of Mark5 scopes are in the $1200ish to $2200ish range and only ONE Mark5 scope is over $2000ish, the 7-35× Tremor3 Illuminated. The MSRP on the Leupold website is absurd. If anyone pays that, they are fools.

 

[acudaowner]

new or used there are some pretty good deal out there to be found on glass . personally I get a little uneasy over used items over the inter net and only a crappy small no detail pic to go off of that is maybe just me . but seeing even more bad unlabled items new for sale that when you read could have nothing to do with the item for sale so you really have to watch out make call and make sure what is what before you pay .