Stupid scope question. Run out of adjustment to zero

[TurdFerguson]

Blast from the past, trying to set up an older Leupold Mk4 in high rings but run out of elevation adjustment. I'm still about 8 inches high from zero at 100 yards before I run out of adjustment. I am going to order medium rings to get it lower/be correct. Does it sound right that it doesn't have enough elevation adjustment to get there if in High rings? The high Rings are 1.4in vs medium at 0.84in. All I have are high rings to test with. Seems to track fine otherwise.

Stupid question just want rule out the scope being a problem.

 

[danatkins]

Do you have any moa in your base?

 

[diverdon]

Does that scope have zero stop?

 

[danatkins]

Don't think the mk4 did I could be wrong never used one they never even crossed my radar

 

[Rob01]

Changing ring height won’t make up 8”. Check for the zero stop. You don’t say which Mark4 you have so some did have them. I believe the M3 that I had did. Thanks

 

[TurdFerguson]

No MOA in the base. Has the m3 turrets. I have a little more adjustment if I take the turret off but maybe 3 additional clicks give or take.

I appreciate the help.

 

[CoryT]

Ring height will change basically nothing at 100 yards. M3 turrets are 1 MOA per click and stop at 0 or 100 yards. Undo the screws and slip the turret 10 MOA and now dial down. If the turret stops before you get to zero, you have a sloped base and the slope needs to be reduced.

 

[TurdFerguson]

Ring height will change basically nothing at 100 yards. M3 turrets are 1 MOA per click and stop at 0 or 100 yards. Undo the screws and slip the turret 10 MOA and now dial down. If the turret stops before you get to zero, you have a sloped base and the slope needs to be reduced.

Just tried it. Runs out of adjustment around the 8 mark on the turret. Its on a leupold mk 4 2 piece bases as well. Do those have build in moa?

 

[CoryT]

If they are indeed factory Leopold Mk4 bases, they are flat and you have some kind of problem. What is the rifle? Right now, the only solution I can give you is something like Burris adjustable rings, where you can alter the slope in the rings.

 

[Rob01]

Yeah something isn’t right. That scope should have no problem zeroing on a flat base. From where you are at how much up can you dial? Do you have another scope to try on that rifle?

 

[CoryT]

The up is limited as well, so you’d need to continue to slip the scale and count MOA total. Most MK 4s should have some 45-60 MOA total travel.

Without a very off center barrel installed curve up it’s pretty hard to figure how this is happening given the description.

 

[acudaowner]

could you have mounted the rail on the wrong way ? are you sure tour scope is mounted flat on the rail ? does your rail have any elevation built into it if yes back to question one ?

 

[Keeper22]

Sounds like something is way out of spec, either with scope or rifle. Interested to see what the problem is.

 

[TurdFerguson]

Its a 2 piece rail, its installed right. It should be 0 MOA with nothing built in, I hope at least.

The rifle is a Eurooptic m24. I had a Leupold VX3I LR 4.5-14 scope on it previously. I never had any issues with it. I took the MK4 out of the safe this morning and from the bottom of elevation, I was able to go up 1 full turn of the dial and reset turn to just past the 800 meter mark (roughly counted 86 clicks). Its bottomed out at still about 8 inches high. I may go through the rifle and make sure everything is good on it other wise...

The VX3I LR has about 80 MOA of adjustment so it should be close enough to the MK 4 right? IS it possible that the erector is stripped?

 

[B y r o n]

There were fake scopes made, are you sure yours is real? Pictures might help including the bottom of the turret housing.

 

[6.5SH]

Excluding user error on adjustment for the moment, have you examined the scope against a straight edge? Is it possibly bent?

 

[TurdFerguson]

I checked it against a straight rdge as suggested. Seemed ok. Here some pics of the scope. Its in mk 4 high rings with mk 4 2 piece bases that i am assuming are 0moa… might call Eurooptic tomorrow to be sure…

 

[JS/]

I would install a 20 moa canted base.

 

[TurdFerguson]

I would install a 20 moa canted base.

How would that help? That would exacerbate the problem

 

[JS/]

I guess I'm misunderstanding. I thought canting the scope down would bring the zero down further.

 

[diverdon]

At this point I would be baffled. In order to simplify the problem I would try the scope on another rifle and/or try another scope on the rifle.

Depending on weather the problem followed the scope or the rifle ide decide what to do next.

I might also look at my budget for a Vortex or a S&B.

I also wonder if you have bore sighted the rifle?

 

[B y r o n]

So, there is a stop built into the elevation ring. It is that little silver pin in the groove.

According to my manual:

Mark 4 M3 10X
- Windage Adjustment -- 30 minutes left, 30 minutes right
- Elevation Adjustment -- 60 minutes up, 10 minutes down

So it sounds like you just need to loosen the set screws and raise the knob up to take it over the stop. Tighten the set screws and continue to zero the rifle. Once zeroed simply loosen the set screws and set the "1" and tighten the set screws.

Hope this helps.

 

[TurdFerguson]

So, there is a stop built into the elevation ring. It is that little silver pin in the groove.

View attachment 7909217

According to my manual:

Mark 4 M3 10X
- Windage Adjustment -- 30 minutes left, 30 minutes right
- Elevation Adjustment -- 60 minutes up, 10 minutes down

So it sounds like you just need to loosen the set screws and raise the knob up to take it over the stop. Tighten the set screws and continue to zero the rifle. Once zeroed simply loosen the set screws and set the "1" and tighten the set screws.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the help, But Ive tried that already. I tried to adjust with the turret/ring off. The scope is completely bottomed out.

 

[TurdFerguson]

At this point I would be baffled. In order to simplify the problem I would try the scope on another rifle and/or try another scope on the rifle.

Depending on weather the problem followed the scope or the rifle ide decide what to do next.

I might also look at my budget for a Vortex or a S&B.

I also wonder if you have bore sighted the rifle?

I had it bore sighted when I first put the new mk 4 on. I put the vx3i back on and it sighted the m24 in without trouble. Might try the mk 4 on another rifle to take the m24 out of the equation.

 

[B y r o n]

Thanks for the help, But Ive tried that already. I tried to adjust with the turret/ring off. The scope is completely bottomed out.

It might be time to contact Leupold and see about sending it in for them to look at.

 

[TurdFerguson]

It might be time to contact Leupold and see about sending it in for them to look at.

Thats what Im afraid of…. Hopefully they can repair it…. I was hoping for a magic fix…

I really appreciate the help everyone has offered. I didnt mean to come off as know it all. I was really hoping I had missed something.

 

[pineoak]

See if it has some kind of clutch system that allows it to reset/move WITHOUT clicking mechanism. Where you can loosen some screws to release the knob from the clicks. Then reset the turning to a place where you have more/less elevation as needed and then retighten those screws and adjust from there.

May we please see what it looks like UNDER the elevation scope cap (not the solid black one, the one with the screws and white markings)? Take it off and share a pic or 2?

Likely not, but worth seeing if it applies.

 

[CoryT]

The 60 up and 10 down is as delivered from the factory, for 70 MOA total. If it is in fact bottomed out, there should be at least 60 up available now. So that is test 1. If test 1 fails, that is you cannot dial up at least 60 MOA (bypassing the stop to get multiple turns), then test 2 is to recenter the elevation by coming down half of whatever you did in fact get, then check total windage travel, which should be 60 MOA from stop to stop.

It's possible that the windage is far enough off the center value that you are pinning the erector cell against the tube before you actually max out travel. If the base is off center or the rings are off a bit that can result in using a bunch of windage to get to zero, placing the erector tube far off center and unable to use the full elevation as built. You did not mention how much windage needed to get to zero, so I'd recenter the scope and start from there.

 

[TurdFerguson]

The 60 up and 10 down is as delivered from the factory, for 70 MOA total. If it is in fact bottomed out, there should be at least 60 up available now. So that is test 1. If test 1 fails, that is you cannot dial up at least 60 MOA (bypassing the stop to get multiple turns), then test 2 is to recenter the elevation by coming down half of whatever you did in fact get, then check total windage travel, which should be 60 MOA from stop to stop.

It's possible that the windage is far enough off the center value that you are pinning the erector cell against the tube before you actually max out travel. If the base is off center or the rings are off a bit that can result in using a bunch of windage to get to zero, placing the erector tube far off center and unable to use the full elevation as built. You did not mention how much windage needed to get to zero, so I'd recenter the scope and start from there.

I didnt think to try that lemme che k it out this evening.

 

[st1650]

Maybe the previous owner did the ball bearing trick. You zero, remove the turret, drill a tiny hole small enough for a tiny ball bearer and then use a tiny bit of grease (or glue) to keep the bearing in place so that you can’t go below zero.
I do that on my Leupold vxr as a way do get a zero stop but then I’m limited to 1 turret turn which is more than fine for my usage.

If you want an easy fix, get the Burris bushing rings, with the bushing, you can use different inserts to have your scope zero-Ed without having to touch the dials (or pretty close to zero)

 

[Milf Dots]

Check to see if the turrets are shimmed.

Also, it's hard to tell from the pic of it mounted, but the front mount looks awfully close to the scope tube/bell taper- perhaps move the scope forward 2-3 mils in the rings.

 

[AN22]

If all else fails, call Leupold, they'll take care of it. I had them rebuild an old Mark 4 10X for me last year that had some reticle issues. No charge, repaired a bunch of other stuff in it too. I had it back in about 2-3 weeks, was basically new when it came back. Worked flawlessly.

 

[isofahunter]

It could be an optical illusion in the rifle picture, but when I zoom in, that rear base looks a lot higher than the front. Also looks like different colors? If you did not install I would double check the MOA on the bases. Internet diagnosis so may not be worth a shit, but picture seems to show a big difference.

 

[deltawiskey]

Its a terrible picture, but the rear base looks thicker than the front base, that means you probably have 20 moa built into your base and it needs to be 0moa. replace your bases and I'll bet your scope is just fine.
DW

 

[Melbo]

Simple solve, install a shim under the front ring or base.

 

[Lazyfaire]

could you have mounted the rail on the wrong way ? are you sure tour scope is mounted flat on the rail ? does your rail have any elevation built into it if yes back to question one ?

That was what I was thinking that the rail was reversed. Have heard of it happening before.

Occum's Razor

 

[Melbo]

The 60 up and 10 down is as delivered from the factory, for 70 MOA total. If it is in fact bottomed out, there should be at least 60 up available now. So that is test 1. If test 1 fails, that is you cannot dial up at least 60 MOA (bypassing the stop to get multiple turns), then test 2 is to recenter the elevation by coming down half of whatever you did in fact get, then check total windage travel, which should be 60 MOA from stop to stop.

It's possible that the windage is far enough off the center value that you are pinning the erector cell against the tube before you actually max out travel. If the base is off center or the rings are off a bit that can result in using a bunch of windage to get to zero, placing the erector tube far off center and unable to use the full elevation as built. You did not mention how much windage needed to get to zero, so I'd recenter the scope and start from there.

Cory Trapp! A name from my past. Shongum, New Jersey IPSC!!

 

[TurdFerguson]

Shipped it to Leupold. Tried a totally different base (Old EGW 0moa), with different rings. Had some laughs, burned some ammo good times were had. Scope is on its way to Leupold. Its what almost 30 years old (96 model I believe), I figure, something has to be off in it. Not pissed off about it. Will post an update once Leupold gives it a going over. Thanks for the help fellas!

 

[CoryT]

Cory Trapp! A name from my past. Shongum, New Jersey IPSC!!

Long ago and far away. Thank goodness I left for Free America.

 

[Melbo]

Long ago and far away. Thank goodness I left for Free America.

You did the right thing, it took me some time but I am in AZ now too!!

 

[JMcGowan822]

Had a similar problem with my scope. Zeroed out on elevation. Installed a 20MOA picatiny base. Problem solved

 

[scudzuki]

Had a similar problem with my scope. Zeroed out on elevation. Installed a 20MOA picatiny base. Problem solved

That would make the OP's combination shoot approx 21" higher for a total of 29" from zeroing. Not gonna help.

 

[scudzuki]

A properly functioning scope should at the least be able to return to what I'll call optically centered, that is, with the optical axis aligned with the scope tube centerline. The last 2 scopes I got new (both Razor Gen IIe 1-6) were nearly perfectly optically centered out of the box. One can make a v block out of a 2x4 about 5" long, cut a v groove in one of the log narrow edges then cut the center out deep enough to clear the turrets. Clamp the unit in a vise (or fix it to something stable) and look through the scope while spinning it in the makleshift v block. Adjust the erector via the turrets until the center of the reticle stops wobbling. If this can't be done with the scope in question, there's something wrong with it. Unless it's a user adjustment like a zero stop preventing it from optically centering, it needs service

If optically centering is accomplished, provided the rifle geometry is perfect (the barrel is dead straight and centered/aligned relative to the action centerline, the top of the action is parallel to the barrel bore axis, the rail mounting holes are parallel to the bore axis, the non-canted rail is parallel to the bore axis) and the rings installed result in the scope tube mounting surfaces being parallel to the bore axis, once the optically centered scope is installed, the first shot will be low in the amount of (the scope centerline above bore axis) + (the ballistic drop of the round fired). Of course the rifle geometry added to the alignement of the rail and the rings is never perfect but it can be pretty close, enough to put you on paper at 100 yards without bore sighting. In theory. I still laser bore sight every scope installation to save time at the range.

 

[rottenruger]

Blast from the past, trying to set up an older Leupold Mk4 in high rings but run out of elevation adjustment. I'm still about 8 inches high from zero at 100 yards before I run out of adjustment. I am going to order medium rings to get it lower/be correct. Does it sound right that it doesn't have enough elevation adjustment to get there if in High rings? The high Rings are 1.4in vs medium at 0.84in. All I have are high rings to test with. Seems to track fine otherwise.

Stupid question just want rule out the scope being a problem.

It's NOT the rings but that's just my gut talking. I've NEVER had rings be the problem except when they were loose.

 

[Snuby642]

Recently got a patroll scope back from Leopold.
The erector was shot and they took care of it by sending me nib replacement.

Was kind of shocked.

 

[Barelstroker]

Before you send anything back, there's a few checks you should make 1st.
1) Check the barrel isn't touching the barrel channel & being pushed up. A while back, I tinkered with a v-block between the barrel & the chassis to try upward pressure on the barrel. It takes very little barrel upward pressure to raise the POI 8" or 10"
2) Check your pic rail that they are the correct profile, especially the rear action pic rail contour. Make sure the surfaces are clean & dry & check the screw holes for metal dags or swarf particles.
3) Check that the rear mount is engaging the pic rail & that the cross bar is in the correct orientation. Some crossbars can be round, faceted or squared. Faceted crossbars are usually asymmetric & orient one way only. If the cross bar is upside down, the rounded side is longer than the faceted side & will ride up on the rail. While checking this, ensure that the bottom flat of the scope ring leg is flat & not peened & is pulled down hard against the top of the pic rail & not sitting proud when tightened down into position.
After these checks I would then focus on the scope.

 

[Keeper22]

Did you ever figure out what the problem was?

 

[Snuby642]

Repair / replacement ticket said erector broken unrepairable.

Replaced w nib.

 

[Keeper22]

Glad they took care of you, thanks for the update

 

[Milf Dots]

Did you ever figure out what the problem was?

Keeper22,
Were you asking the OP- "TurdFerguson"- that question? If so, he didn't answer- someone else jumped in.