I'm just curious if there is a law that says you can only go so low on decibles on a suppressor? And is there a huge difference in different suppliers of cans ? If so what are some top picks for decent price and quality? One more question what is a wet suppressor .. thanks everyone for you time knowledge and help.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Suppressors Suppresor Laws on decibles
- Thread starter sniper_1
- Start date
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
There are no laws other than the Ideal Gas Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics along with the other Laws of Nature that determine how low you can go. At some point, size and weight are going to be an issue though.
Picking a suppressor is a lot like picking a girlfriend, there are various plus/minus points to every model and some personal subjective measurments involved. In other words, what impresses the hell out of me might seem ho-hum to you.
A 'wet' can uses some sort of cooling medium, such as water or grease, to assist in sound reduction value, these are normally pistol suppressors. This allows for a reduction in size for the same dB reduction as a larger, heavier unit, but requires the user to deal with adding coolant and the mess that creates.
There are no laws other than the Ideal Gas Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics along with the other Laws of Nature that determine how low you can go. At some point, size and weight are going to be an issue though.
Picking a suppressor is a lot like picking a girlfriend, there are various plus/minus points to every model and some personal subjective measurments involved. In other words, what impresses the hell out of me might seem ho-hum to you.
A 'wet' can uses some sort of cooling medium, such as water or grease, to assist in sound reduction value, these are normally pistol suppressors. This allows for a reduction in size for the same dB reduction as a larger, heavier unit, but requires the user to deal with adding coolant and the mess that creates.
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
Wow thanks so much I will take all that into consideration. Thanks again for your time an advice..
Wow thanks so much I will take all that into consideration. Thanks again for your time an advice..
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are no laws other than the Ideal Gas Law</div></div>
... and the ideal gas law was made to be broken.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are no laws other than the Ideal Gas Law</div></div>
... and the ideal gas law was made to be broken.
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are no laws other than the Ideal Gas Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics along with the other Laws of Nature that determine how low you can go. At some point, size and weight are going to be an issue though.
</div></div>
This is an intelligent post. A lot of marketing speak suggests laws of physics can be broken, but in reality there are limitations to the size to performance relationship.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are no laws other than the Ideal Gas Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics along with the other Laws of Nature that determine how low you can go. At some point, size and weight are going to be an issue though.
</div></div>
This is an intelligent post. A lot of marketing speak suggests laws of physics can be broken, but in reality there are limitations to the size to performance relationship.
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNIPER1JS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And is there a huge difference in different suppliers of cans ? If so what are some top picks for decent price and quality?</div></div>
Are you looking for a pistol or rifle can? What is your application?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNIPER1JS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And is there a huge difference in different suppliers of cans ? If so what are some top picks for decent price and quality?</div></div>
Are you looking for a pistol or rifle can? What is your application?
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNIPER1JS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just curious if there is a law that says you can only go so low on decibles on a suppressor? And is there a huge difference in different suppliers of cans ? If so what are some top picks for decent price and quality? One more question what is a wet suppressor .. thanks everyone for you time knowledge and help. </div></div>
Also remember...you can't ever go lower than the noise your action/bolt/trigger/firing pin make....usually around 110-114db..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNIPER1JS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just curious if there is a law that says you can only go so low on decibles on a suppressor? And is there a huge difference in different suppliers of cans ? If so what are some top picks for decent price and quality? One more question what is a wet suppressor .. thanks everyone for you time knowledge and help. </div></div>
Also remember...you can't ever go lower than the noise your action/bolt/trigger/firing pin make....usually around 110-114db..
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
How do you get 110-114 dBs for action noise? A rock concert is 114 ish.
THink of it this way, 5 source of sound:
1. Muzzle blast
2. Projectile flight signature
3. Action noise
4. Terminal strike noise
5. Operator noise
A good integral .22 bolt action has no muzzle blast, no projectile signature, the tiniest action noise. If the bullet hits soft and the operator is quiet, you can get down into the 70-80 dB range.
I would answer the OP question differently, for those States that allow suppression, no State has a maximum or minimum sound statute that I am aware of.
There is a huge diference found between suppressors, especially in some calibers and price ranges.
I have no idea what "decent" means in your situation.
As to wet or dry...
Start here:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8176267/suppressor-basics
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8193125/should-i-clean-my-centerfire-suppressor
How do you get 110-114 dBs for action noise? A rock concert is 114 ish.
THink of it this way, 5 source of sound:
1. Muzzle blast
2. Projectile flight signature
3. Action noise
4. Terminal strike noise
5. Operator noise
A good integral .22 bolt action has no muzzle blast, no projectile signature, the tiniest action noise. If the bullet hits soft and the operator is quiet, you can get down into the 70-80 dB range.
I would answer the OP question differently, for those States that allow suppression, no State has a maximum or minimum sound statute that I am aware of.
There is a huge diference found between suppressors, especially in some calibers and price ranges.
I have no idea what "decent" means in your situation.
As to wet or dry...
Start here:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8176267/suppressor-basics
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8193125/should-i-clean-my-centerfire-suppressor
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
The firing pin is ~103DB on a 10/22. The action noise is approximately 114DB if you put the microphone 6" or so to the right side of the action when firing a suppressed rifle.
80DB? I'd be very surprised as the Red Ryder BB gun meters 94-98DB and pushes a .177 cal bb at ~300 FPS.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/decibel_reference_library.htm
If a Rock concert is 114DB it's only sounding loud because it is not an impulse noise but rather a noise that is constant. So obviously the OSHA recommended exposure time is very low. Comparing constant atmospheric noise to PEAK impulse sound measured in as short a duration as 8 microseconds (8/100s) is apples to oranges.
The human ear tends to hear sounds with duration shorter than 20/100 second as being half as loud as they actually are, so the suppressed 114DB peak is heard by the human ear as possibly approximately similar to 104DB atmospheric sound.
This is because while 3DB is the doubling factor for actual sound intensity, the human ear according to psychoacousticians hears 6-10DB change in sound as approximately twice as loud.
This also explains why 135DB suppressed systems seem approximately 1/10th the sound of an unsuppressed M4 carbine, rather than ~ 1/1024th the sound as the DB scale would suggest is the actual noise reduction.
The firing pin is ~103DB on a 10/22. The action noise is approximately 114DB if you put the microphone 6" or so to the right side of the action when firing a suppressed rifle.
80DB? I'd be very surprised as the Red Ryder BB gun meters 94-98DB and pushes a .177 cal bb at ~300 FPS.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/decibel_reference_library.htm
If a Rock concert is 114DB it's only sounding loud because it is not an impulse noise but rather a noise that is constant. So obviously the OSHA recommended exposure time is very low. Comparing constant atmospheric noise to PEAK impulse sound measured in as short a duration as 8 microseconds (8/100s) is apples to oranges.
The human ear tends to hear sounds with duration shorter than 20/100 second as being half as loud as they actually are, so the suppressed 114DB peak is heard by the human ear as possibly approximately similar to 104DB atmospheric sound.
This is because while 3DB is the doubling factor for actual sound intensity, the human ear according to psychoacousticians hears 6-10DB change in sound as approximately twice as loud.
This also explains why 135DB suppressed systems seem approximately 1/10th the sound of an unsuppressed M4 carbine, rather than ~ 1/1024th the sound as the DB scale would suggest is the actual noise reduction.
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
I was thinking more along the line of a .22 bolt action or .22 pistol with locked breach. Red Ryder would be a loud action.
6 dB doubling, progress!
dB is max pressure, regardless of duration. We have to be careful here, and I know you are. Taking a measurement at 6" of say the pin hitting on the bolt because there is no primer is going to sound very different. People loose all sense oF sound in context when they concentrate soley on a dB meter. Imo, we have to think of it in practical terms. A striking alarm clock at a couple of feet is 110 Db. There is simply no way that a sear break in a 77/22 is that loud, even if you were to string them all together.
The issue has to do with something we rarely speak about, dB has a relationship with the amount of sound waves generated as well. I used to have a signature line from a guy here that knows much more than I do on this topic. He would say that a Pistol Crab cracks its claws at 218 db. Huge, huge dB. How huge? Hearing tissue dies at 118, but you can carry around a bucket full of these crabs in the back of your truck and hear what sounds like tiny cracks. Whereas the dB is over 200, the amount of air disturbed is tiny.
A rock concert drum beat, one drum strike, just one at 114 dB does not, in any way sound as loud as the sear break / pin snap on a 77/22. An alarm clock with its mechanical bell on top, each strike is 110, again no way the preceived sound is in anyway simular to that bolt action.
I was thinking more along the line of a .22 bolt action or .22 pistol with locked breach. Red Ryder would be a loud action.
6 dB doubling, progress!
dB is max pressure, regardless of duration. We have to be careful here, and I know you are. Taking a measurement at 6" of say the pin hitting on the bolt because there is no primer is going to sound very different. People loose all sense oF sound in context when they concentrate soley on a dB meter. Imo, we have to think of it in practical terms. A striking alarm clock at a couple of feet is 110 Db. There is simply no way that a sear break in a 77/22 is that loud, even if you were to string them all together.
The issue has to do with something we rarely speak about, dB has a relationship with the amount of sound waves generated as well. I used to have a signature line from a guy here that knows much more than I do on this topic. He would say that a Pistol Crab cracks its claws at 218 db. Huge, huge dB. How huge? Hearing tissue dies at 118, but you can carry around a bucket full of these crabs in the back of your truck and hear what sounds like tiny cracks. Whereas the dB is over 200, the amount of air disturbed is tiny.
A rock concert drum beat, one drum strike, just one at 114 dB does not, in any way sound as loud as the sear break / pin snap on a 77/22. An alarm clock with its mechanical bell on top, each strike is 110, again no way the preceived sound is in anyway simular to that bolt action.
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking more along the line of a .22 bolt action or .22 pistol with locked breach. Red Ryder would be a loud action.
6 dB doubling, progress!
dB is max pressure, regardless of duration.
</div></div>
If you are talking locked breach and action noise than you're probably going to be in the 90-100DB range, because some of what goes on is mechanical, unless we are going to be cycling the bolt in some very slow and controlled manner.
If you are talking shooters ear metering on a locked breach rimfire bolt rifle at the moment of firing, you're probably correct as suppressors in the low 110DB range would probably be metering in the 90-100DB range at the shooters ear.
The 6-10DB human ear doubling makes sense because when suppressors are 3DB's apart, often people can't even tell the difference or can just barely discern it. So the DB scale would be suggesting double the noise at the level at which the human ears are still confused as to which suppressor is the better performing unit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking more along the line of a .22 bolt action or .22 pistol with locked breach. Red Ryder would be a loud action.
6 dB doubling, progress!
dB is max pressure, regardless of duration.
</div></div>
If you are talking locked breach and action noise than you're probably going to be in the 90-100DB range, because some of what goes on is mechanical, unless we are going to be cycling the bolt in some very slow and controlled manner.
If you are talking shooters ear metering on a locked breach rimfire bolt rifle at the moment of firing, you're probably correct as suppressors in the low 110DB range would probably be metering in the 90-100DB range at the shooters ear.
The 6-10DB human ear doubling makes sense because when suppressors are 3DB's apart, often people can't even tell the difference or can just barely discern it. So the DB scale would be suggesting double the noise at the level at which the human ears are still confused as to which suppressor is the better performing unit.
Re: Suppresor Laws on decibles
Sorry, I edited above before I read your post. We are in agreement.
Sorry, I edited above before I read your post. We are in agreement.
