Suppressed .22 and real effects on accuracy?

[hafejd30]

In my experience mainly using my TBAC Ultra 9 I’ve never seen a gun where it shot worse with the can than without. Usually it’s the opposite for reasons we can debate I’m sure but that’s what I see. My SilencerCo 36M seems to show the same and my Saker ASR 556 seems good to

So my question is,

What’s everyone’s experience with accuracy in relation to a rimfire suppressed vs not?

I see many reports of cans on rimfires having negative effects on accuracy. Just curious what everyone’s finding are

Currently have a TBAC takedown and griffin Optimus micro in jail. Also have a Vudoo 360, B14R and T1X in the gun room awaiting some free time to finish piecing together and testing

 

[littlepod]

Suppressor just changes the tune. It can get better or worse. Problem is that the suppressor keeps collecting carbon and gets heavier over time and keeps causing the tune to change.
Also all the unburnt powder gets dumped back into your action and bolt which can cause flyers on the first round.

 

[jmac1911]

I just tested 16 different varieties of 22lr and i don't have the data in front of me but as i recall more than half shot better groups with the can than without. Some of the exceptions were CCI mini mag and CCI pistol match. Eley Match and Lapua long range were unaffected and shot about the same size groups w/without a can. These two also had the lowest ES and SD, SD was under 3fps for both suppressed.

 

[RTH1800]

If suppressors aided in pure accuracy I think some BR shooters would have a special event to chase that mythical zero group.
Getting rid of the boom of centerfire guns does help most folks shoot better.
Nothing about threading a muzzle should improve accuracy. As someone pointed out above, the weight could help or hinder accuracy.
My vote would be any change in accuracy of a suppressed rimfire would be lost in the noise.

 

[hafejd30]

I see the change in tune being a definite possibility. One ammo that shoots great without can would do opposite with it. Same if the roles were reversed

I’m guessing what I’m seeing are reports of people who test their rimfire. Buy a lot of ammo. Then just screw the can on it once approved and test with same lot

 

[Kadams1563]

Suppressor just changes the tune. It can get better or worse. Problem is that the suppressor keeps collecting carbon and gets heavier over time and keeps causing the tune to change.
Also all the unburnt powder gets dumped back into your action and bolt which can cause flyers on the first round.

I have a Vudoo with a takedown .22. It’s annoying as HELL when you pick your rifle up and all that crud falls down your bore. It will cause the bolt not being able to close and jam your rifle all up.

You have to carry it muzzle down but inevitably you will forget and the second you go muzzle up your screwed.

 

[CountryShooter]

I have a Vudoo with a takedown .22. It’s annoying as HELL when you pick your rifle up and all that crud falls down your bore. It will cause the bolt not being able to close and jam your rifle all up.

You have to carry it muzzle down but inevitably you will forget and the second you go muzzle up your screwed.

I have read this before. Seems so strange to me. I clean my TD22 every 1000 rounds, store my T1X muzzle up, and I've never noticed this phenomenon.

 

[hafejd30]

I have a Vudoo with a takedown .22. It’s annoying as HELL when you pick your rifle up and all that crud falls down your bore. It will cause the bolt not being able to close and jam your rifle all up.

You have to carry it muzzle down but inevitably you will forget and the second you go muzzle up your screwed.

Does ammo choice effect how bad this gets?

 

[Kadams1563]

I have read this before. Seems so strange to me. I clean my TD22 every 1000 rounds, store my T1X muzzle up, and I've never noticed this phenomenon.

Man I don’t know how you haven’t. It’s annoying.

Mainly a diet of SK yellow box, Norma tac, and SK long range.

It has happened to me a lot. I can shoot take my can off and crud falls out if it.

 

[CountryShooter]

Man I don’t know how you haven’t. It’s annoying.

Mainly a diet of SK yellow box, Norma tac, and SK long range.

It has happened to me a lot. I can shoot take my can off and crud falls out if it.

I have no idea. I haven't had this happen with TAC22, CCI SV, nor Geco Rifle. I only remove the can at the 1000rd mark when I clean can and barrel.

 

[Hoser]

No change in accuracy here. But most of my precision rimfires have tuners of some sort to go along with a can.

 

[PearShooter]

There must be at least 50 thread under this same topic or question, learn to use the search button.

 

[Tomiboy]

Tikka T1X with 2 different barrels and a gen 2 Vudoo both shot worse with my TBAC suppressor

Seems like a Sparrow is the only suppressor I've seen that improves groups

 

[JG26_Irish]

I cannot say that my deadair mask HD affected accuracy much but it did not help it at all. Most groups with most ammo were "slightly" larger. It did affect POI precision a lot in my view. The POI dropped 4/10 mil and shifted left 2/10 mil at 50y on my Sako Quad Lija custom by GA Precision. This is a very accurate rifle that compares in performance to the VuDoo or Rim-X repeaters. Not better but similar. 50y groups that are not at least 1/4" c-c are in my mind not good enough. For PRS the level of precision and accuracy is often not that great and your own shooter induced variables would mask any affects from the can. At the precision BR Level it hurts performance and is not worth the added variable. If you don't like $#it falling out of the can into the action, then clean it more often. It is not hard to do. As previously stated threading a bbl after it is rifled hurts accuracy because the steel expands where the metal is removed and this opens the bore at the very place you would prefer to have it tighter. Can be compensated for with a good taper lap job? Maybe. I saw the same results with two other rifles. A Bergara carbon and a custom 22-Tango. Both still shot well but neither shot better. I do squirrel hunt with the light weight BMR with the can and it does not hurt accuracy enough to matter in that role.

I tried to adjust the position fore and aft to get a muzzle tuner affect and in theory it could work, but with my limited testing I found no measurable benefit. I love it for plinking long range steel plates but out past 200y other variables like wind, humidity, terrain all begin to take over more. If it helped, every BR shooter in the country would use one.

 

[RTH1800]

At the precision BR Level it hurts performance and is not worth the added variable.

If it helped, every BR shooter in the country would use one.

This is the answer.

Suppressors are great tools. No need in claiming virtues that they do not possess.

 

[littlesister]

In my experience mainly using my TBAC Ultra 9 I’ve never seen a gun where it shot worse with the can than without. Usually it’s the opposite for reasons we can debate I’m sure but that’s what I see. My SilencerCo 36M seems to show the same and my Saker ASR 556 seems good to

So my question is,

What’s everyone’s experience with accuracy in relation to a rimfire suppressed vs not?

I see many reports of cans on rimfires having negative effects on accuracy. Just curious what everyone’s finding are

Currently have a TBAC takedown and griffin Optimus micro in jail. Also have a Vudoo 360, B14R and T1X in the gun room awaiting some free time to finish piecing together and testing

Simply put, Adding a suppressor to any remfire gun is one of the worse things you can do as related to accuracy!

 

[Holliday]

There must be at least 50 thread under this same topic or question, learn to use the search button.

Learn to mind your own business. If you don’t like what is being posted in a forum move along Karen.

 

[AZ Dan]

If suppressors increased accuracy, every F Class rig would be suppressed. They aren't.

 

[hafejd30]

If suppressors increased accuracy, every F Class rig would be suppressed. They aren't.

I get that. I’m sure ideally a tuner for rimfire is the best bet. Like tuning an airgun valve for pellets or rifle ammo to the gun

I’m more just generally asking how many have added cans and actually noted where the gun didn’t have the same potential as without

Not just a particular lot # of ammo or what not but just overall

 

[Hoser]

If suppressors increased accuracy, every F Class rig would be suppressed. They aren't.

And if they were legal at F-Class matches, more would use them...

 

[epeet]

I almost exclusively shoot a T1X suppressed. I shoot CCI SV mostly. Only time things get crummy is when shooting the Thunderbolt type crap, which generally defeats the point of suppressed anyway, since it's supersonic. I haven't noticed much of a change in accuracy. I prefer to not need to wear hearing protection, and that outweighs for me any tiny concern about changes in group size.

 

[JG26_Irish]

When I am hunting, plinking, shooting offhand or in odd improvised rest positions, I usually do not notice the change in accuracy other than the aforementioned change in POI, which is easy to correct and has been pretty consistent with all of my threaded rifles. These are all rimfire. The only time I shoot Thunderbolts is when I give them to the kids to plink with. I hunt with Eley and Lapua match ammo, because it is matched to my rifle, I know what it is capable of and I want the confidence to take the tough shots.

I love the quieter report. But the reason, I do not notice the difference is that I cannot shoot precise enough off hand (nor can most of you). Other larger variables dominate the overall results and any negative affects from the can are lost in the "Noise" to offer a pun. I cannot shoot 1/4" 50y groups standing, sitting or taking rest of a log. So, use of the can is OK for those applications. But I can shoot those tight groups with all three of those rifles from a bench or from prone. When the pure accuracy counts the can comes off. I shot a national level PRS event a few years back. 2/3rds of the competitors had a suppressor on their rimfire rifles. I was surprised but when I thought about it, even the winner of the match had a hard time shooting an egg sized tgt standing unsupported with only a sling as an aid. So the millimeters of difference from the can does not mater in those cases. So, are you aiming at a ground hog at 50y from a rest off your tractor fender? or are you seeking to hit a fly on the center dot of your 50y BR tgt? Do not choose the can for that 2nd option if you want to beat me, lol.

When a guy says the can does not affect his accuracy, then I know he cannot shoot well enough to notice a difference with his rifle, ammo, optic and shooter combo.

 

[Hoser]

I have posted this picture before.

60 shots at 50 meters. Prone at the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. Old Eley Team/blue. Suppressed with a TBAC 30 caliber can. No tuner.

Without the can the accuracy is the same, but the point of impact is different by a few clicks.

Before threading this barrel, accuracy was the same as were the average scores. 595-598. I added the can and average scores went up a tick. But instead of lots of 597-598s, I was shooting more perfect scores and my lows were 596-597.

The top picture is the screen view of all 60 shots. Electronic targets do not have scoring rings on the target itself, only the screen shows them. The final shot, #60 shows the bullet diameter. It was about 1.9 mm left and 1.1 mm low from being a 10.9 which is a perfect shot. I was holding center of mass on a black blob. 60 shots under 1/2 inch with no defined aimpoint, I will take it.

The second picture is what the old fashioned paper targets look like.

My Vudoo F-Class rifle (right bolt, left port, single shot) also wears a TBAC centerfire can and ATS tuner. Take the can off, retune and accuracy is the same. If a can hurt my accuracy, I would yank it off in a heartbeat.

Now the grime that falls out of the can and into the action when carried muzzle up is absolutely a concern. More than one Vudoo or RimX has been shut down by this.

 

[BILL7532]

I think it is pretty well a consensus that any weight added to the barrel end may change the POI due to the different harmonics as a result of the added weight.
I think from what I have read from multiple sources is as the shot count climbs then the suppressor weight changes or increases which to a degree would be sort of like changing the setting on an installed tuner.

Couple that with the added contaminants that end up in the barrel and breech from shooting with a can for a standard .22lr report noise wise a set of ear plugs does not look so bad.

I think the best use for a suppressor on a .22lr may be for hunting where slight difference in accuracy will usually not change the targets end result and you are trying to use the silence to not scare other close game or bother fairly close neighbors and the round count fired usually will be much lower than a range session.

 

[JG26_Irish]

Hoser is getting great results with his can. Some rifle bbls are so harmonically stable that not much affects them. You are lucky to have one like that sir. If your cans are not affecting your accuracy, then you are truly blessed. That is one data point. I would like to see others. Most of us do not own multiple rimfire cans and so can only personally see only one or two data-points. I am not so closed minded that I would think that there could, (in theory) be cases where adding the weight of the can just perfectly hits that dead node on the bbl to give you the same affect as a tuner. It could happen. I still keep testing my rifles in local bench rest matches with and without the cans just to get more info. Just like different lots of the same ammo are not the same, every setup is different. Hell, even lots that worked in the winter do not always perform as well in hot, humid summer. Knowing that is true, I still am playing with it and also ordered a jam nut to allow me to move my can fore and aft within the limitations of the threads on the rifle in attempts to get a tuner affect out of it. So far, results are inconclusive in my limited case of one can and three rifles.

I do not normally share this sort of info, but just to validate our discussion and the level of precision needed to even see the impact or lack thereof of a can on a rimfire rifle. Attached below is a pdf. In the middle of the page is my ugly azz accepting the ARA National Champion trophy for the inaugural factory class benchrest competition. I scored a total of 19,625 points out of a possible 20,000 (what is reported on the pic was a typo) over eight matches on two days in some rugged wind conditions, especially on day 2. I won six of the 8 matches outright and logged four perfect cards that week. I dropped two shots on Sat and three on Sunday out of a total of 200. And two of the top ten competitors that year went on to win national titles of their own. At least one other of that group is a current nationally ranked PRS marksman. Off an on, I can still shoot, lol.

 

[FuhQ]

All of mine shoot as good, or better, with the cans. I know this sounds weird, but my Ranger 22 actually shoots better with my new TBAC 22 Takedown, than it does with my Mask HD. Not by much, but it was enough to make me take notice. I think my Mask was just really dirty that day, and it had some extra lead crap all around the apertures affecting accuracy. Because I went home and cleaned it, and it started shooting the same as it did before it got really dirty.

So... It's not scientific by any means, but I am now a firm believer that if you let your .22 can get cruded-up with shit, then it most defiantly CAN affect your accuracy. Now I clean the baffles in the Mask after ever few-hundred rounds. The TBAC is still awaiting its release from NFA jail, so I don't shoot it much, since I can't bring it home and clean it right now. Once it's released then it's game-on with lots of head-to-head comparisons between it and the Mask HD.

I will say this... The TBAC 22 Takedown is actually quieter on my new Ruger MK-IV SSH 22/45... Not by a whole lot, as the Mask is one of the best .22 cans on the market, but it is slightly noticeable. I would chalk it up to the TBAC having 2-3 more baffles than the Mask. Also, when I was shooting with it on there, I was hitting the 8" gong at 100 yards about 6/10 shots with just a Holosun 507 red dot and no magnification with a 3" barreled .22 pistol.

 

[FuhQ]

New video is up of the TBAC 22 Takedown can on the new Ruger MK-IV SSH, shooting 8" gongs at 100 yards... This thing is hollywood quiet...And accurate!

 

[Bgriff008]

If suppressors aided in pure accuracy I think some BR shooters would have a special event to chase that mythical zero group.
Getting rid of the boom of centerfire guns does help most folks shoot better.
Nothing about threading a muzzle should improve accuracy. As someone pointed out above, the weight could help or hinder accuracy.
My vote would be any change in accuracy of a suppressed rimfire would be lost in the noise.

Agreed. Of all the 22lr PRS shooters in matches of 60-80 some participants, I know of only one shooter who shoots suppressed. I gave up the Can myself because it didn’t group as well. It was just a cool factor until I realized it didn’t help. So I’m very surprised by the above posts stating that the suppressors tested, improved groupings. The nice thing about 22lr is I don’t need hearing protection when shooting.