Suppressors Suppressor accuracy issue

[Tikka_taca1]

So a while back I bought a sico 762 specwar for my 16” tikka Tac a1 308, I bought a 556swr when they first came out and it has been flawless.

while waiting for form4 I put a dead air sandman-s on and it to has been flawless, if the gun shot moa with out it it would shoot moa with the same Ammo with it minus needing to adjust the poi.

form for is back and the 762 specwar will not hold groups with my match ammo(175 gr nosler rdf home load) or with factory fgmm 168 ammo.

sent it in and they sent it back saying nothing wrong with it but they did send me another brake to try, I mounted it shot the can and same issue.

but I bought a box of 155 hornady black to try for better velocities down range and after 2 fliers it seemed to settle in, is it a suppressor issue or am I going to have to tailor a suppressed load ?

i did a 50 yard test because when silencer co tested this they only tested at 50 and told me the suppressor was fine, and their 50 yard group was as tight as mine, so I did the 50 yard test to show them 50 yards proved nothing

 

[JMGlasgow]

The DeadAir is 5.5oz lighter than the Specwar. That may be an issue with barrel harmonics using the Specwar.

 

[Tikka_taca1]

The DeadAir is 5.5oz lighter than the Specwar. That may be an issue with barrel harmonics using the Specwar.

ya it’s possible

 

[NWnewguy]

Please don't take this as an insult or as demeaning, but if it shoots tight at 50y, it should shoot tight at a 100y. With no atmospheric effects, groups should be twice the size (I know you already know that, but sometimes hearing it from someone else helps!)

. There is some promise there and one of the 100y groups looked good with one exception. It could be a bit of head game sneaking in on you. If you're expecting to shoot poorly, you usually do.

I would say try it on a different rifle, and/or have someone else that's a known good trigger puller give it a go. I've seen how SilencerCo builds these and there's not a lot of room for error.

 

[Tikka_taca1]

Please don't take this as an insult or as demeaning, but if it shoots tight at 50y, it should shoot tight at a 100y. With no atmospheric effects, groups should be twice the size (I know you already know that, but sometimes hearing it from someone else helps!)

. There is some promise there and one of the 100y groups looked good with one exception. It could be a bit of head game sneaking in on you. If you're expecting to shoot poorly, you usually do.

I would say try it on a different rifle, and/or have someone else that's a known good trigger puller give it a go. I've seen how SilencerCo builds these and there's not a lot of room for error.

my shooting isnt the issue and I not saying that to sound cocky just saying I drive tacks with this gun all day

if I had a 5/8 brake I’d try it on my ar10 but my tikka is m18

attached is a 3 target group for load development, as you can see mint, then another shit group with same ammo suppressed

 

[NWnewguy]

I know what you're saying, I was just trying to help isolate the issue. I meant no offense.

I've had perfectly good rifles that shot fine, that I had to sell because I couldn't shoot them for anything.

I've also had perfectly good golf clubs that I had to sell because they didn't look right to my minds eye. The brain can do some crazy things!

 

[Tikka_taca1]

I know what you're saying, I was just trying to help isolate the issue. I meant no offense.

I've had perfectly good rifles that shot fine, that I had to sell because I couldn't shoot them for anything.

I've also had perfectly good golf clubs that I had to sell because they didn't look right to my minds eye. The brain can do some crazy things!

Ya I think my best bet is get advice from sico or tailor load a suppressor round

 

[Dill]

try direct threading it.

 

[hafejd30]

Anytime you hang something on your barrel you change the barrel harmonics. Chances are that’s the difference. Shooting the bullets you intend to use at the charges you intend to try will ensure stability. Then tune to the suppressor. Your barrel is your tuning fork

 

[Pre-64]

my shooting isnt the issue and I not saying that to sound cocky just saying I drive tacks with this gun all day

if I had a 5/8 brake I’d try it on my ar10 but my tikka is m18

attached is a 3 target group for load development, as you can see mint, then another shit group with same ammo suppressed

Where both of your targets on the same type of backer? It almost looks like the suppressor target the bullets are key holing, it’s a small picture that I’m looking at but they don’t look to be the same to me.

 

[Tikka_taca1]

Where both of your targets on the same type of backer? It almost looks like the suppressor target the bullets are key holing, it’s a small picture that I’m looking at but they don’t look to be the same to me.

Yes they where on the same one

 

[Pre-64]

Yes they where on the same one

I knew I guy that had this issue with a sig suppressor, his gun shot fine with one suppressor not with the other, looked just like your targets, sent it back and they put a different end cap, problem solved. Never had a baffle strike but some reason it would cause his bullets to start key holing.

 

[Pre-64]

I’ll see him tomorrow and ask him what they said caused it, I can’t remember if it was to big of a end cap or out of round but that’s all it took to fix it.

 

[Tikka_taca1]

I’ll see him tomorrow and ask him what they said caused it, I can’t remember if it was to big of a end cap or out of round but that’s all it took to fix it.

Unfortunately this has a welded on end cap and you cannot change it to direct thread

 

[Tikka_taca1]

try direct threading it.

you can’t it does not accept different mounting options only mounts to a brake

 

[hafejd30]

Just out of curiosity why is it welded? Factory weld? I have a Saker 556 and my BIL has a omega and neither one is welded and can be changed in 10 seconds

 

[j-huskey]

Just out of curiosity why is it welded? Factory weld? I have a Saker 556 and my BIL has a omega and neither one is welded and can be changed in 10 seconds

Because it's a Specwar 762, and it's a solid end cap, qd unit that fits a threaded brake/flash hider.

 

[j-huskey]

@Tikka_taca1

I have one..... I screw it on as tight as I can, then lock the ring. AND as long as its tight, it shoots fine....
But, however, yada, let it unclick 1 tiny unlock click, and the group doubles or triples. And the can does not move much at all, but, it does move.

SiCo discontinued that model because of this, once there was a topic here about it, the little lock "things" were weak and wouldn't keep the lock ring in place. And nothing SiCo did, fixed it.

The handyman fix.... is, plumbers tape on the mount threads, enough to tighten the "f" out of it, and then the lock ring will hold..... and groups shrink.
This SUCKS, but works. Put it on once and leave it on, no problem. Take it off a lot, and you will hate the unit.

Try the plumber tape and report back.

The specwar mount lock up is the problem just like the old AAC 51 tooth thing...

 

[hafejd30]

I’m just guessing by the above post this is the trifecta Mount? Mine and my BIL are ASR QD

 

[Huskydriver]

I’m just guessing by the above post this is the trifecta Mount? Mine and my BIL are ASR QD

No the specwars are the original ASR mount cans. Sakers evolved from the specwars and were designed to use the absolute failure that maad was and so sico went back to ASR mounts on everything

 

[hafejd30]

My TBAC 9 adds about 50 FPS on the velocity.

Only thing I can think of is reduce the charge .2-.3 gr and try it.

I’ll be honest with my Thunderbeast I have yet to see a gun shoot worse with the suppressor attached. Usually its the other way around

 

[Tikka_taca1]

My TBAC 9 adds about 50 FPS on the velocity.

Only thing I can think of is reduce the charge .2-.3 gr and try it.

I’ll be honest with my Thunderbeast I have yet to see a gun shoot worse with the suppressor attached. Usually its the other way around

i am not sure about my home load but when I tried hornady black today I chrony the ammo and velocities I think where the same I’ll double check, but after two fliers the 155 grain hornady black started to do good

 

[hafejd30]

I’m just going to guess that it has something to do with the heat/gas/fowling of your suppressor required to achieve the “sweet spot” of the ammo your shooting. Chances are a change in velocity.

I’ve seen barrels do this. If you reload Try your load or adjust your charge by .2-.3 grains or try different ammo and see what it does.

I’m still guessing that harmonics on a cold barrel/suppressor don’t like the ammo your running. But just a guess

 

[Tikka_taca1]

I’m just going to guess that it has something to do with the heat/gas/fowling of your suppressor required to achieve the “sweet spot” of the ammo your shooting. Chances are a change in velocity.

I’ve seen barrels do this. If you reload Try your load or adjust your charge by .2-.3 grains or try different ammo and see what it does.

I’m still guessing that harmonics on a cold barrel/suppressor don’t like the ammo your running. But just a guess

I inverted the brake 180 and I’ll try to time it if that don’t work then I guess I’ll play with my load ??‍

 

[hafejd30]

I inverted the brake 180 and I’ll try to time it if that don’t work then I guess I’ll play with my load ??‍

Just for reference my BIL and I both run direct thread

 

[Tikka_taca1]

Just for reference my BIL and I both run direct thread

wonder if they would convert my suppressor to direct thread lol

 

[hafejd30]

wonder if they would convert my suppressor to direct thread lol

The QD brakes today are much better than in the past and many people use them to great success. When I bought mine about 5 years ago the direct thread was the way to go for accuracy. Not sure if that the trend anymore or not.

If your attaching correctly and consistently than I would think they would both yield similar results. My Saker 556 is QD But that’s on guns that aren’t designed around precision

 

[Gtscotty]

wonder if they would convert my suppressor to direct thread lol

If worse comes to worst, Ecco Machine converts older silencers over to Omega thread mount so folks can use whatever attachment methods they want. I think he's done some Specwars, this thread has some good pics:

Silencers - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

 

[FisherT&C]

Just two thoughts to throw onto the heap.
Are you using a wrap? Is it sliding over the muzzle end and creating a false crown?
Are you not using a wrap and the mirage from the surpressor is screwing with you sight picture?

Deep thoughts from the peanut galley.

 

[Tikka_taca1]

UPDATE:

So I went out this am with 20 rounds, trying things and shooting 2 shot groups, I used my fgmm 168 factory ammo and 155 hornady black.

to get right to it when I mounted the suppressor I tightened it on the brake massively tight by hand, tight as I possibly could, shot 2 rounds of 168 fgmm, they where as tight as the gun prints them with out the suppressor

took the suppressor off and repeated,and those 2 rounds landed in the same group as the last two, did this test with 155 hornady black and got the same results

again took it off and again reamed it on and got the same super accurate results.

naturally I got a poi shift that’s ok I’ll zero it for suppressor on, but in short the issue is it needs to be mounted extremely tight

 

[sixsixnine]

Having a similar issue with my Specwar.

Best group I can get with the can attached is about 2MOA, even with ammo tuned to the gun.

Going to try a couple extra ugga duggas next time and hope for the best.

 

[fdkay]

There is a reason that cans marketed for precision work are direct thread.

 

[sixsixnine]

There is a reason that cans marketed for precision work are direct thread.

The Specwar was my first NFA purchase, back before I knew anything about POI shift, barrel harmonics, accuracy nodes, etc.

Just wanted something that would last forever and swap around from rifle to rifle.

Honestly, if I could get it to shoot 1MOA just by cranking it onto the brake a little tighter, I'd be perfectly satisfied.

 

[microsuck]

There could be several reasons, but usually when I see groups open up with a silencer attached, it means that the silencer is slightly off center the way its mounted. Not enough for a strike, but enough to disturb the bullet slightly. I suggest you check it with an alignment rod. Geissele makes them. It should look perfectly centered like this photo for optimal accuracy. You can mount and re-mount until its straight.

 

[Snuby642]

Probably exactly like the 51t / aac problem.

We lap the mating surface on the adapter till it snaps tight with a solid ping, ringing you can hear.

You should not be able to loosen it by wiggling.

Only rotational force.

 

[sixsixnine]

There could be several reasons, but usually when I see groups open up with a silencer attached, it means that the silencer is slightly off center the way its mounted. Not enough for a strike, but enough to disturb the bullet slightly. I suggest you check it with an alignment rod. Geissele makes them. It should look perfectly centered like this photo for optimal accuracy. You can mount and re-mount until its straight.

Ended up just pulling the brake off and sending everything back to Silencerco.

I shot a bunch of groups on a few different rifles, and was only able to reproduce the issue with one of them. The rest shot fine. I'm willing to bet that either the brake itself is bad, or the threads on that barrel aren't concentric. Either way, I've been down this road before, and I'm not willing to spend any more of my time, ammo, or energy chasing gremlins. It's in the hands of the professionals now.

We'll see what the verdict is when it gets back from Utah.

 

[thorium]

Tried cleaning it (soaking in CLR per a few other threads)?

 

[metroplex]

@Tikka_taca1

I have one..... I screw it on as tight as I can, then lock the ring. AND as long as its tight, it shoots fine....
But, however, yada, let it unclick 1 tiny unlock click, and the group doubles or triples. And the can does not move much at all, but, it does move.

SiCo discontinued that model because of this, once there was a topic here about it, the little lock "things" were weak and wouldn't keep the lock ring in place. And nothing SiCo did, fixed it.

The handyman fix.... is, plumbers tape on the mount threads, enough to tighten the "f" out of it, and then the lock ring will hold..... and groups shrink.
This SUCKS, but works. Put it on once and leave it on, no problem. Take it off a lot, and you will hate the unit.

Try the plumber tape and report back.

The specwar mount lock up is the problem just like the old AAC 51 tooth thing...

I have 4 ASR muzzle devices and my ASR bravo mount is tight on all except 1. It's *slightly* loose that it won't back off 1 tooth but it isn't as tight as the others. I followed SilencerCo's instructions to bend out the lobes on the ASR clip just a hair (using a flat head screw drive, insert into the lobes and twist them out). This allows the ASR spring to be pushed down tighter by the cammed lock ring.

Afterwards, bingo presto it was tight.

 

[TBACRAY]

I would guess that your threads are off a bit and even without the bullet actually hitting anything it is getting very very close and causing an issue. This is why we make our cans straight and do not EDM anything.