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Suppressors Suppressor advice needed for a first time buyer
- Thread starter SWWI Shooter
- Start date
@SWWI Shooter They come up from time to time but IMO not worth the hassle unless you know the history of the suppressor while it was in service with the previous owner. Also, if the seller is out of state, I believe there is one or more transfer fees involved, but feel free to independently verify or perhaps someone can confirm or deny.
I look at cans as a life time purchase so would never sell one; not many folks do once they have them.
I look at cans as a life time purchase so would never sell one; not many folks do once they have them.
GRIFFIN_ARMAMENT
Official Sniper's Hide account of Griffin Armament
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
You can buy/sell used suppressors. There are plenty of SOT's with "demo" cans that they will sell from time to time. If you're buying a can from a leading industry company with a good customer service dept and warranty policy its a potential way to save a bit of money. Griffin for instance will service cans that have changed ownership no problem. That being said the new products on the market are so good that you'd hate to buy old tech.
After listening to the advice on this thread and doing more research on line, it appears that suppressing an AR involves more than just screwing one on (adjusting gas block, changing/ tuning the buffer system, etc.) and requires a lot of extra cleaning. That being the case, I'm thinking that I may just get another Tikka bolt action for coyote hunting / supressing. If I do that (run only bolt actions), does that change any of the advice given above.
Yep, you’re spot on. Adj gas block mitigates a lot of the back pressures but a robust cleaning routine is a must.
Knights and SF cans were designed from the get go to operate on AR pattern systems (semi and full auto), thus the reason I recommended them when you specified the suppressor was to be used on an AR. They are far from the “quietest” suppressors and are much heavier than other cans as durability/ability to take punishment without failing was a primary DOD requirement.
Here is my advice: start with a suppressor for your bolt gun; you have a plethora of options at all price points if it’s just for a bolt. TBAC, AAC, AWC, SAS, Dead Air, Silencerco, just to name a few.
Later on when you’re ready, purchase a can for your AR’s knowing you will have a different set of requirements and priorities for that can vs the can for your bolt guns.
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My suppressor decision making process is pretty simple:
If it's going on a bolt gun = TBAC
If it's going on a gas gun = Surefire
More complicated if it's pistol cal, but that's not germane.
If it's going on a bolt gun = TBAC
If it's going on a gas gun = Surefire
More complicated if it's pistol cal, but that's not germane.
At the risk of offending some folks, if you want something that goes on an AR that you don't have any adjustable gas blocks on & can't do much tuning to it, the OSS suppressors tend to work well in that application.
I think the Ultra 7 is the sweet spot of the Ultra line, especially for a hunting can. It gives plenty of suppression for big game, or coyote hunting, but also isn't too long. 9 inches is a pretty long can, when trying to maneuver around deadfall or dark timber, I notice length quite a bit, and even a few inches can make a difference. TBAC is the hometown team here, and I probably see four Ultra 7s for every Ultra 9 at our range, it's just a really nice Goldilocks can.
In addition, from the Seekins .260 Ar-10 meter comparisons between the Ultra 5 and Ultra 9 Ray posted over on ARFcom, I'd guess that the Ultra 7, like the 5 will, in general, be quieter at the ear on ARs.
In addition, from the Seekins .260 Ar-10 meter comparisons between the Ultra 5 and Ultra 9 Ray posted over on ARFcom, I'd guess that the Ultra 7, like the 5 will, in general, be quieter at the ear on ARs.
I'm biased but I'd like the opportunity for your business.
Yes, to me it is. We sold alot of omegas early on when we opened and we had numerous ones for demo. We finally just sold the demos too. the suppressor itself isnt bad, its just not great. Numerous ASRs have come into our shop damaged or the secondary lock teeth stripped. I have a box of them. I dont even want to send them back because I would rather see the customer switch to a taper lock attachment without a secondary lock (I.E. TBAC, Q, Griffin, Dead Air) Like most of these guys said, the ultra 7 is my go-to do-all can. I had a 9 but sold it cheap to a SWAT sniper buddy who couldnt afford one for work since his cheap ass dept wont buy him anything. i miss that can and will get another one, but I used the 7 far more so it was OK at the time. I agree with the other gentleman in that the 7 is the perfect hunting can. I never really noticed the added suppression of the 9 when my adrenaline was cooking during a hunt, but I did notice the extra length snagging on saplings and sometimes knocking on stuff on the ground when I have a rifle slung on my front, muzzle down.
Whenever i get done demoing new stuff at the shop I always go back to throwing the 7 on...especially on my hunting rifles. It is currently doing double duty on a 308 16" bolt gun and a 9.5" custom 300 BLK chassis pistol bolt gun we built. For semis, the ones we like the most are the Dead Air Nomad, The Q Trash Panda and Half Nelson (on taper barrels), and we've had great luck with the Griffin Line I.E. Paladin 30 and 5 and explorrs. Like Zak said, the 7 is fine for semis also, but as a dealer I just dont see the need for myself since I have other cans for that. I just dont like running a bunch of crap range ammo thru my beloved 7. Its mostly in my head though on that one. I know alot of guys like the surefires, and I dont mean to step on any toes, but we just dont like secondary lock suppressor mounts much and havent had good luck with them, I.E. ASR or Surefire. We have had numerous customers with frozen surefire cans that they told me they had to "shoot off" which makes me cringe and had a guy with the surefire blast mitigator attachment, the warden, that locked on without even firing it and would not come off. We eventually had to carefully remove the whole muzzle device still inside it and sent it back to surefire. They would not tell us what the problem was. They just sent a new muzzle device and warden. I love other surefire stuff though.
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If all of my rifle barrels are threaded with the same thread size and pitch, is there any reason not to get a direct thread suppressor as opposed to a TOMB style mount?
Two more quick questions:
1) think I read somewhere that a reduction of 3 db by a suppressor results in a perceived sound reduction of 50%. Is that correct?
2) When you buy a second suppressor, is the permitting process any quicker or easier than the first one or do you have to "start over" each time you buy one?
1) think I read somewhere that a reduction of 3 db by a suppressor results in a perceived sound reduction of 50%. Is that correct?
2) When you buy a second suppressor, is the permitting process any quicker or easier than the first one or do you have to "start over" each time you buy one?
Im not a expert but that doesnt sound right. If you visit a website where they sample a 3db change in sound, it is just barely able to be heard. The difference that is. Maybe someone with sound training or who works in that industry can chime in.
HaHa! No the tax stamp doesnt come any quicker. If you happen upon a point in time where there is an industry promo or God forbid the govt shutdown, then it may be even slower. We have alot of customers with multiple cans and there is nothing consistent in the process. The only thing that seems to sometimes make a difference, for whatever reason I dont know, is if you send in a large batch of them at once. Like 4+ purchases all in the same envelope. Any time we have done that most have come back in less than half the time of individual forms. Maybe its coincidence I dont know but it happens.
Thanks. I know that changing from 100 to 103 db is more than a 3% change in perceived sound but I wondered about 50% too. I have been watching videos with shooting of a bare rifle and different suppressors. There isn't much difference between the bare rifle and suppressed but I think that the camera or software messes with the sound to give it constant volume so I think that is deceptive.
For me, unless Im using a tapered barrel system and taper direct thread cans like Q and Sig make, then I stay away from direct thread all the time. When I first ordered my Thunderbeast cans for demo some years ago and we signed up as dealers, I spoke with them about this subject and they recommended getting the CB brake system. They told me that it has gotten so good that they didnt have any perceptible difference in performance between that and the direct thread, and I have never since ordered a DT can. im just so happy with the CB system. The taper on their brake adds alot of surface contact between the can and brake and keeps everything nice and tight. If you go this route, might want to consider having all your brakes timed to your rifles and forget the shims. At least on anything precision. We have Harts Rifles do alot of ours and they will even cut the threads to fit the brake so that there isnt alot of slop and misalignment with thread clearance that is too generous. The brakes fit the threads nice and tight with steady resistance and then bottom out on the 90 degree shoulder. A short semi carbine w/ factory barrel shouldnt matter as much, I usually just shim it.
Direct thread cans have a habit of walking loose from vibration and heat. Super big pain in the ass. We have had a couple customers over the past couple years who thought their DT cans were tight but came in with baffle strikes cause they loosened at some point. Plus just the fact that they are easier and faster to switch between rifles. Now I would take a DT can over a secondary lock system fast attach. those systems just dont have consistent lockup all the time and can be found to gauge out of alignment with the bore when checked. Seen it happen.
You are asking the wrong guy. I dont get real wrapped up in energy and stuff like that. I expect the engineers of the companies we buy from to figure that out. I can tell you that the difference is pretty substancial from a bare rifle to a suppressed one no matter what the caliber is. If you arent hearing that from a video than thats more than likely the problem. YouTube does not give a good representation of what stuff sounds like. It needs to be heard in person. I agree that some videos sound impressive and others dont sound like much at all. I can tell you this: Having a suppressor on is always a great idea. Hearing safe shooting levels are awesome. If you havent heard one in person, find a place locally that does demos or find a range where you can interact with guys who own them. We have sold suppressors to ALOT of customers. We arent a big shop, but this year alone we are over 70 already. I can only remember 2 customers who were disappointed in the way suppressors sounded after getting theirs. I mostly blame myself for that as I feel I didnt do a good enough job talking with them and explaining to them what to expect. I have since gotten alot better at the counter with that and spend alot of time finding out what peoples expectations and usage needs are. In those cases, they had the unrealistic expectation that the supersonic cartridge in their rifle was going to sound like a Hollywood movie where guys kill some guard sentry with an M4 and a whispy sound and the dudes standing 15 yards away ever heard a thing.
Also, as much as I love the TBAC 7, if you are really interested in maximum sound reduction and really experiencing what quiet can be, then def get the Ultra 9 or maybe the Q Thunder Chicken. Also the long versions of the 30 cal Sig cans sound great. I wish the Dead Air Sandman Ti wasnt direct thread cause i would throw that in there too since it sounds great. It might be best to get to experience what that really sounds like before getting a mid sized workhorse can. Im sure you will get more down the road and at that point you can make some concessions with sound to get a shorter lighter can. Just a thought.
Right, I understand the difference between Hollywood and real life. Those guys shoot a gun in an enclosed room un-suppressed and go on like nothing happened. To my embarrassment, I once had a 9mm negligent discharge indoors and it was an unforgettable experience.
My question stems from the statement that the Ultra 7 in 6.5 cal is 2-3 db quieter with a 6.5 cal rifle than it is with a 30 cal can. I would like the option of using my can (when I purchase it) on a 30 cal rifle (when I buy a 30 cal magnum) but don't want to sacrifice a lot of suppression on my 6.5 CM so that is what prompted the 3 db difference question.
My question stems from the statement that the Ultra 7 in 6.5 cal is 2-3 db quieter with a 6.5 cal rifle than it is with a 30 cal can. I would like the option of using my can (when I purchase it) on a 30 cal rifle (when I buy a 30 cal magnum) but don't want to sacrifice a lot of suppression on my 6.5 CM so that is what prompted the 3 db difference question.
So, the decibel scale is to make things more understandable and relatable to how things sound. Our ears don't measure things linearly, just like you don't see lumens linearly. 10db, energy increases my 10x, perceived hearing increases by about 2x. But as far as hearing damage is concerned, the energy change is more important.
This is a good resource http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm
On the ultra 30 vs 6.5mm difference, the difference between them is noticeable. Just like the ultra 7 and 9 are noticeably different. If you have a chance to hear many, do it. Videos are a terrible source. Most cameras try to balance sound levels, most software trys to balance sound levels, and normal microphones can't record loud enough sounds, or react fast enough to catch the peak.
This is a good resource http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm
On the ultra 30 vs 6.5mm difference, the difference between them is noticeable. Just like the ultra 7 and 9 are noticeably different. If you have a chance to hear many, do it. Videos are a terrible source. Most cameras try to balance sound levels, most software trys to balance sound levels, and normal microphones can't record loud enough sounds, or react fast enough to catch the peak.
I wish there were some suppressors around that I could look at but I haven't run into anyone with one on a rifle in SW WIsconsin. I'm sure there are some around but I may run in the wrong circles
I wish there were some suppressors around that I could look at but I haven't run into anyone with one on a rifle in SW WIsconsin. I'm sure there are some around but I may run in the wrong circles
Find a long range match, and ask the match director if you can spectate. In wy/Co matches are 50-75% suppressed. Watch for the day, if you hear something you like, ask the shooter. Most guys are very happy to talk about (brag) their setup.
Oh gotchya. We dont have a 6.5 model but yes thats what Ray told me at Shot Show that the 6.5 models are really impressive on 6.5 calibers. They told me that when they want to go really impress someone they take a 6.5 creed with the 6.5 ultra 9. But having said that, 2-3 db is a fine trade to be able to use it on 30 cal weapons. Its fun on a 300 BLK, sounds awesome on my 16" 308, and great also on 30 cal mags. If i knew I was never gonna shoot above 6.5, then thats what I would get. But judging from your comments, I think you need to go 30 cal and dont look back. You wont be disappointed. Dont get hung up over 2-3 db. Versatility wins in this instance every time.
Yeah he probably will. Which would be great. I definitely agree with you. He should try your suggestion. Im in Northeast PA and we dont have alot of long range matches around here so it didnt occur to me. Good stuff.
I wish there were some suppressors around that I could look at but I haven't run into anyone with one on a rifle in SW WIsconsin. I'm sure there are some around but I may run in the wrong circles
How much open land do you have? I live in Belleville WI but I would be willing to take a drive with my suppressor if you have some distance available to you. I never shoot beyond 300 yards.
I own a Yankee Hill Resonator. It's a 30 cal can at a stupid good price with great sound reduction and a nice QD brake system. I don't see anyone recommending them in this thread but I don't regret my purchase.
I have access to a place to shoot out to 1000 yards but can't use it now until after the hunting season is over.
I'm a big believer in Thunder Beast. Buy whichever TBAC suits your purposes and then (this is very important) buy a TBAC 22 Takedown suppressor for rimfires. I get the most use out of that one by a long shot.
I could see that would be useful but I haven't shot a rimfire in years. My good old 10/22 just sits in the safe.
I didn't either. Then I got the suppressor and bought a .22lr just for it and love it.
Hunting, general plinking, and shooting interactive targets such as a KYL rack. I have two hosts for it depending on the use. General target shooting I use a Vudoo and for small game hunting I use a Tikka T1X.
Has anyone ever used a blast shield (linear muzzle break) on their rifle? My main purpose of buying a suppressor is to help protect my ears while hunting. Obviously, the blast shield isn't the same as a suppressor but does it help at all with the concussion and sound at the shooters ear?
I used a linear muzzle break for a while on my AR. My previous muzzle break produced a sound and shockwave that would practically knock people off their feet. People 4 benches down would have their papers thrown around.
The linear break is a much kinder thing to use in a crowded environment. Doesn't slap the neighbors. But... still loud. It wasn't god awful like my last break but it's not a magic trick either. Largely ineffective at making things quiet.
I went with the Kineti-Tech. It was recommended to me and a fine break. I suppose my favorite of the handful I have shot. But silencer replacement it is not.
The linear break is a much kinder thing to use in a crowded environment. Doesn't slap the neighbors. But... still loud. It wasn't god awful like my last break but it's not a magic trick either. Largely ineffective at making things quiet.
I went with the Kineti-Tech. It was recommended to me and a fine break. I suppose my favorite of the handful I have shot. But silencer replacement it is not.
@SWWI Shooter - you should buy something soon while you still can. Before they outlaw them....and hunting.
Better yet, but two or three...may make the decision easier for you vs agonizing over selecting the “right one”.
Blast shield won’t save your hearing...have a SF warden and love it but need earpro when shooting.
Better yet, but two or three...may make the decision easier for you vs agonizing over selecting the “right one”.
Blast shield won’t save your hearing...have a SF warden and love it but need earpro when shooting.
any idea of the decibel level with thunder chicken on 6.5?
i have a new one and want to try it at the house if the shot is quiet enough
I will show you what I shot today -- a Banish 30 on a Rem 700 .204. It is 100% titanium (alloy -- no one uses pure titanium), and you can run it either in a 7" configuration for hunting or a 9" configuration for sustained (usually bench) shooting. No other suppressor offers that "module" option. It comes threaded 5/8" x 24 so I use a small, inexpensive bushing to get it down to the 1/2" x 28 threads on my .204, .223, etc. If you want to shoot any caliber larger than .223 you will have to buy a 30-cal. suppressor (no one I know of makes a 6.5, or .243, or 7mm, etc.). But that is okay -- a 30-cal suppressor does a great job of suppressing a .223, .17 or other small caliber.
My first suppressor was a QD-type. I consider that a mistake and my last two have been direct-thread. It does not take me long at all to switch to another rifle. And I don't have to buy a mount for every rifle, like I had to do with my QD can. DT is the only way to go, IMO.
The Banish 30 weighs 9 oz. in the 7" configuration, and 13 oz. in the 9". Very light and strong, and most important to me, I can take it apart for cleaning. One of the targets I shot today at 100 yards is below. It was too breezy to get any great groups, but super-accuracy is what I'm about, even when I'm just shooting p-dogs. We have had something of a raging debate going in another thread about whether dirty cans start to lose accuracy -- my experience is that they do -- so I want nothing but user-serviceable cans now. But, you don't HAVE to ever take the Banish apart and clean it if you don't want to, and it (and the sealed cans) will still be acceptably accurate for most people. But options are good.
My .204 with it 4,000 fps bullets is, without suppression, a VERY loud rifle. And yet with either my 7" Banish 223 or Banish 30 in 7" I can shoot p-dogs ALL DAY with no ear protection other than a hat with ear flaps covering my ears or foam plugs stuck half-way in. I would not be at all concerned about taking a shot or two at a deer without any ear pro at all, with any decent suppressor made, either 7" or 9". But 9" does suppress slightly better than 7" does, regardless of make.
I'm just a customer and have no affiliation with anyone at any suppressor company, but I got lucky and had a friend who steered me to Silencer Central a few years ago. The Banish (sold by SC) are NOT full-auto rated (other than for a short burst), but I am into accuracy, not just spraying lead, so I couldn't care less about the full-auto restriction. I don't even want to rapid-fire my custom barrels -- they will get shot out soon enough as it is. The Banish 30 also has restrictions against 30-cals bigger than Weatherby Magnum, or very short barrels on big calibers. But I have no desire to ever shoot any barrel shorter than 18" or so, or any 30-cal bigger than a 300 Win Mag, so the Banish 30 is fine for me. I am very glad I discovered the Banish line.
Enjoy the journey! You will love having a suppressor.
My first suppressor was a QD-type. I consider that a mistake and my last two have been direct-thread. It does not take me long at all to switch to another rifle. And I don't have to buy a mount for every rifle, like I had to do with my QD can. DT is the only way to go, IMO.
The Banish 30 weighs 9 oz. in the 7" configuration, and 13 oz. in the 9". Very light and strong, and most important to me, I can take it apart for cleaning. One of the targets I shot today at 100 yards is below. It was too breezy to get any great groups, but super-accuracy is what I'm about, even when I'm just shooting p-dogs. We have had something of a raging debate going in another thread about whether dirty cans start to lose accuracy -- my experience is that they do -- so I want nothing but user-serviceable cans now. But, you don't HAVE to ever take the Banish apart and clean it if you don't want to, and it (and the sealed cans) will still be acceptably accurate for most people. But options are good.
My .204 with it 4,000 fps bullets is, without suppression, a VERY loud rifle. And yet with either my 7" Banish 223 or Banish 30 in 7" I can shoot p-dogs ALL DAY with no ear protection other than a hat with ear flaps covering my ears or foam plugs stuck half-way in. I would not be at all concerned about taking a shot or two at a deer without any ear pro at all, with any decent suppressor made, either 7" or 9". But 9" does suppress slightly better than 7" does, regardless of make.
I'm just a customer and have no affiliation with anyone at any suppressor company, but I got lucky and had a friend who steered me to Silencer Central a few years ago. The Banish (sold by SC) are NOT full-auto rated (other than for a short burst), but I am into accuracy, not just spraying lead, so I couldn't care less about the full-auto restriction. I don't even want to rapid-fire my custom barrels -- they will get shot out soon enough as it is. The Banish 30 also has restrictions against 30-cals bigger than Weatherby Magnum, or very short barrels on big calibers. But I have no desire to ever shoot any barrel shorter than 18" or so, or any 30-cal bigger than a 300 Win Mag, so the Banish 30 is fine for me. I am very glad I discovered the Banish line.
Enjoy the journey! You will love having a suppressor.
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The guys from the company you're arguing with in this thread make a 6.5 suppressor.
Well, I knew someone would, sooner or later, but I can't imagine they sell many. My 30-cal suppressors work too well on 6.5, and give me the option of shooting 7mm, in addition to 30-cal. I would call them a dumb investment.
We've had 6.5mm versions of the Ultras for about four and a half years at this point. We sell plenty, but the .30's are definitely more popular. Most of the 6.5mm buyers have multiple cans already and want something to dedicate to their 6.5mm and 6mm rifles.
What you get with a dedicated 6.5mm stack (not just endcap) in the Ultra series is a 2-4 dB improvement, which is about the same difference as going from an Ultra 9 to and Ultra 7. So you put it one way, you can shoot a 6.5 Ultra 7 on your .260 and it will sound almost identical to a .30 cal Ultra 9 on the same rifle.
What you get with a dedicated 6.5mm stack (not just endcap) in the Ultra series is a 2-4 dB improvement, which is about the same difference as going from an Ultra 9 to and Ultra 7. So you put it one way, you can shoot a 6.5 Ultra 7 on your .260 and it will sound almost identical to a .30 cal Ultra 9 on the same rifle.
