It's not "your" signature that is the issue, it is the dealers signature from where you are purchasing the suppressor.
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Suppressors Suppressor Application DENIED!!! Something to be aware of.
- Thread starter Glassaholic
- Start date
Silencer Shop said that many forms were still being approved, it is only some that are being denied. It depends on the examiner you get, as you can imagine ATF has multiple examiners and apparently some are just outright denying the application without even sending a letter to the dealer asking for a handwritten signature. As I understand it, they are required to send a letter to the dealer, but my dealer never received the letter (how can you prove that though). Denying an application because of a signature that was acceptable at the time of submittal but has since had a change to requirements, without giving ample notice and opportunity for resolution is unacceptable. Hopefully Silencer Shop will be able to get a resolution from higher ups within ATF who will recognize the situation.
Just got a call from my dealer, was denied for this reason.
Hope they get it sorted out and don't have to wait another year.
Hope they get it sorted out and don't have to wait another year.
That really stinks! Did your dealer happen to mention if the ATF ever sent them a letter stating they needed the hand written signature, or similar to my situation, did they just simply deny it?
Thanks for that clarification!This thread got me all concerned about my order, so I called Silencer Shop and spoke with the compliance department. They told me that the ATF is no longer accepting Docusign "Signature Font". That's the font that the system auto generates when you type in your name. I'm attaching an example photo. The ATF is still fine with Docusign submissions, if you draw in your signature with your finger, (or any other body part for that mater..... or your mouse.
Sorry about your trouble wjm308!
View attachment 7141601
All of mine have been docusigned and got back a recent (stamp cashed 10/10/18) one. One thing I haven't read yet that I heard is that there was a big issue with Silencer Shop signing on behalf of the dealers too. If you had one in may or june or thereabout, they sent the form back to the dealer to sign because they stopped letting silencershop sign on their behalf. i hadn't heard about the "no docusign", but i can almost understand them saying they won't take a fake signature like a docusign font version.
however, i can't believe they wouldn't just send it back for a correction! I've heard that once they send it for correction then you're almost through the process. a guy i know was delayed a bit for that reason, but they didn't deny him.
the guy i use is supposed to be getting in a load of thunderbeast cans next week i think. might ask about the docusign thing when i'm in there.
Out of curiosity what was the timeline of purchased and check cashed?
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well i appreciate the OP bringing this to everyones attention. I've never troubled the folks at ATF before while waiting, as i figured it just slows everyone down. but i have an application done theough SiShop that was submitted oct 18 so i called. rather unfortunately, i was disapproved sept 3. no correction letter sent, just disapproved.
in calling the folks at silencer shop just now, i learned that they received a dissaproval letter in the last day or two. they were already working on me. good to know they are on top of it.
will update once i find out resolution.
in calling the folks at silencer shop just now, i learned that they received a dissaproval letter in the last day or two. they were already working on me. good to know they are on top of it.
will update once i find out resolution.
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forgive my ignorance, but is my “dealer” siliencer shop who I bought it from or the FFl where it is imprisoned?
i wouldnt single out the examiners per se on this. they are just doing their jobs and if it requires an actual signature so be it. they arent categorically denying them without having presented the issue up the chain and a superviser giving a directive. is it b.s. in the scheme of things, yes. but let silencer shop work the back channels before we burn the bridges
I agree to a point, but to deny is a dick move and uncalled for. Just send it for correction, not hard. Sounds like somebody just being a stuck up bitch with an egotistical attitude and a power trip to me.
I was denied for the same reason. The examiner called me and said they wrote them telling them they changed the rules and also gave them an extension and they basically ignored both. She told me I will have to go thru the year waiting process again. Silencershop as of now hasn’t even called me back after leaving multiple messages.
This is the problem with pretty much any law. After it is passed they can change the definitions or SOP with impunity because we cannot vote them out and any government employee is impossible to fire.
The red flag laws will get passed then the definitions changed to attack those who disagree with whoever is in power.
So I bought a takedown 22 from silencer shop in February 2019 using their in network dealer for my local dealer. I signed my documents from SS using docusign. Trying to decide what my next step should be, other than continuing to sit tight.
call silencer shop. if you give them the serial they can pull up your paperwork while you are on the phone and look at the signatures by the dealers. as i had one denied, but others waiting, i had them do this so that i could rule out having an issue with any of my other pending form 4s
I spoke with Silencer Shop today - very encouraged with the news. Based on the volume of denials that have come through, the ATF asked Silencer Shop to file a formal appeal which they have done. At this time it is looking very hopeful that the ATF will offer an opportunity for re-submittal of denied requests and we are talking weeks and not months at this time. If you have been denied and you did submit through Silencer Shop I would recommend that you be patient and allow them to work it out with the ATF. Your dealer should have informed Silencer Shop of the denial and, if they have, then you should be on a spreadsheet so that even if Silencer Shop has not received the $200 refund for the tax stamp yet, they will still submit the forms and $200 for the tax stamp even ahead of receiving the refund from ATF (which can take up to 90 days). As the purchaser there is no need to return to a kiosk or worry about the tax stamp, Silencer Shop will be taking care of all of this for you. There is potentially one issue, that is your photos, the ATF requires your photos to be updated annually, so if you submitted your forms more than 12 months ago I'd recommend that you update your photos with Silencer Shop which I believe you can do online here - https://www.silencershop.com/submit-your-photo
That is certainly good news. I guess the reason I have not had a returned phone call from silencershop is the sheer volume of calls they must have had over this. If that is indeed the case, I will be the first to issue an apology for bad mouthing them abt the way I was told by the ATF that they are handling it. Thank you for the update
I should also mention that it is Silencer Shop's goal to contact everyone who was denied and is on their list; however, the list is big and it will take a while to contact everyone once approval is given to re-submit. Of course, I will try my best to keep this thread updated as I am updated. I expect to hear something from them by the first week of October but if I do not then I will contact again but for now, I am keeping everything as is and hoping for the best turnout.
So Silencer Shop finally called and pretty much told me the exact same thing that WJM308 has already stated. He also asked me if I was affiliated with any internet shooting forums discussing this that I would post his name and phone number if they are being directly affected by this and silencer shop was their dealer. His name was Mark and he is in charge of handling this for Silencer shop. Guy was extremely helpful and led me to believe that they truly are working dilligantly on getting this resolved in our favor. I am going to have to eat crow and apologize for throwing SS under the bus. Hopefully this works out for all that is affected, if it doesn’t, I honestly do feel they gave it a valiant effort with the ATF.
Mark’s direct line is (512)551-0333
He said feel free to call him directly with any questions and/or concerns
Mark’s direct line is (512)551-0333
He said feel free to call him directly with any questions and/or concerns
what makes it worse is your REQUIRED to have a muffler on your car and bike. drive without one and your getting a ticket.
Update from Silencer Shop: Just got a call and they said things moving right along and they believe they will get approval of their appeal and be able to re-submit all the applications that have been unduly denied. In preparation they are sending out emails to everyone on their list to re-sign the document (remember, it was not docusign that BATF had issues with, it was the font that dealers used to sign with, it needs to be hand written - through docusign) so they are asking submitters and dealers to re-sign the document using a mouse or finger if you have touch screen). This is in anticipation of approval and if approved they will mail all the forms and new signatures back to the BATF for expedited approval. I keep holding out for hope with this process.
My dealer called me last week and he already sent my application back with all the proper signatures they wanted, he also sent an appeal letter since he never got a correction letter.
He also told me SS was notified so I should be on a list. I never did hear back from SS but i know from these post they are working on it.
He also told me SS was notified so I should be on a list. I never did hear back from SS but i know from these post they are working on it.
I'm sure there are plenty of you guys that are sharing the same concerns as me fearing that we will be caught up in this DocuSign signature font debacle so I thought I'd share what little information I can contribute.
I just got off the phone with Mark (thanks to @tlsmith22) at Silencer Shop trying to see if there was anything proactive I could do to have an ATF Approved signature resubmitted from my dealer to avoid a possible wrongful denial. My check was cashed for my Form 4 Trust on 11/6/18 so I know my submission is falling in that window in question and have confirmed my dealers signature is a docusign font that seems to be causing issues with some examiners. Mark said that the best thing I can do is wait until my application goes through the process and see if it get's approved or denied. Calling the ATF and bringing to their attention the fact that I know there is an issue with my application may cause issues that otherwise might not have been. Seeing as some examiners are still approving without issue, or sending a correction letter to the dealer and then approving shortly after that. However, IF we do get denied Mark has assured me that he is extremely confident in their appeal to the ATF and that I or anyone else wrongfully denied will be taken care of. For example, I know that he has already been working directly with my dealer on this issue and is taking immediate action once notice of a denial is received.
Bottom line, for all of you feeling helpless like I am, the best course of action appears to just wait it out and see what happens and then if you do get denied have faith in Mark and Silencer Shop to make it right.
I just got off the phone with Mark (thanks to @tlsmith22) at Silencer Shop trying to see if there was anything proactive I could do to have an ATF Approved signature resubmitted from my dealer to avoid a possible wrongful denial. My check was cashed for my Form 4 Trust on 11/6/18 so I know my submission is falling in that window in question and have confirmed my dealers signature is a docusign font that seems to be causing issues with some examiners. Mark said that the best thing I can do is wait until my application goes through the process and see if it get's approved or denied. Calling the ATF and bringing to their attention the fact that I know there is an issue with my application may cause issues that otherwise might not have been. Seeing as some examiners are still approving without issue, or sending a correction letter to the dealer and then approving shortly after that. However, IF we do get denied Mark has assured me that he is extremely confident in their appeal to the ATF and that I or anyone else wrongfully denied will be taken care of. For example, I know that he has already been working directly with my dealer on this issue and is taking immediate action once notice of a denial is received.
Bottom line, for all of you feeling helpless like I am, the best course of action appears to just wait it out and see what happens and then if you do get denied have faith in Mark and Silencer Shop to make it right.
I unfortunately got word that my application using Silencer Shop was denied. I was told that my wait time was going to have to restart. After hearing that, I called Mark on the phone and left countless messages. He won't call me back. This is beyond frustrating. Silencer shop honestly thought they could try and hide this?
Personally I would rather Mark spend time fixing the problem than calling you back after your teenage temper tantrum voicemail tirade.
Just found out I too have been screwed by the ATF! "Livid" would not even begin to describe how I am feeling right now. Adding insult to injury, I've been writing to my Congressman (one if his Aides) for the past month or so regarding my concerns at the time on this issue. Apparently all for nothing as I continued to get the runaround the entire time.
God I hope Mark @ SS is working some serious magic to get us back in line ASAP.
God I hope Mark @ SS is working some serious magic to get us back in line ASAP.
Mark called me again and gave me an update. He thinks they are very close to having a written appeal approved by the ATF/NFA, apparently talks have already taken place and a verbal agreement is in place. He is in the process of sending everyone who had their forms denied an email to resign their documents. He seems to think that once he gets approval to send them back to the ATF/NFA for approval, it will only take a few days to turn them around and back to the dealer with stamps.
Thanks for the update @tlsmith22 , I spoke to Mark this morning after I found out my application was denied but didn't quite get to that level of detail so that's very encouraging to hear. I can attest that Mark is currently working on it as he has already sent me a fresh form to DocuSign so that he can stage them and get them ready to send back to the ATF once the Appeal is approved.
Let's all pray to the Suppressor Gods that the appeal goes through without a hitch!
Let's all pray to the Suppressor Gods that the appeal goes through without a hitch!
Odds are your application is being staged like mine/ours to be resubmitted once the appeal gets approved and goes through. From there the hope is our resubmittals get fast tracked to approved status as @tlsmith22 was saying.
So when my dealer made the correction it went back to Silencer Shop for them to resubmit?
I assumed when my dealer made the correction they sent it back to the ATF.
Not my first suppressor but first time using SS and it's my first denial so I don't know how it works.
I assumed when my dealer made the correction they sent it back to the ATF.
Not my first suppressor but first time using SS and it's my first denial so I don't know how it works.
From what I understand yes. But to be sure you can call Silencer shop and talk to anyone in their compliance department as they are all appraised of what is going on with this signature issue with the ATF. They can check on your application and let you know what the status is.
Usually the dealer will send the correction back to ATF. Once the form 4 is submitted, Silencer Shop is out of the loop. Call and ask your dealer.
Wjm308 Sorry to hear this news, I also purchased a can from silencer shop and my check was cashed on 10/31/18. I had received an email from SS on the cashing. I was on vacation the last two weeks and while on vacaction I received a voice mail (9-27-19) from my dealer that my tax stamp was here and i can come pick up my silencer. I am leaving in an hour to pick it up. FYI- I also used the kiosk for the paper work and not sure how SS signed the forms.
velvet - you shouldnt have any problems. you are still in line. once ATF gets correction back your application continues forward in current slot. Many people arent as lucky as you, and the examiner just denied it (theres a legal term but i cant think of it at moment).
i talked to mark last friday and i'll echo what tlsmith said above. for those denied SS is working on the appeal. forms would be re-filed, silencershop will send in new $200 (as technically for those denied ATF is sending back original $200, but that can take 90 days).
if the appeal is accepted the concept is that SS would be able to send the application and new monies direct to an examiner, it would go to front of the line, and be processed pretty quickly.
for those affected and following thread - if you call mark and dont catch him, leave just 1 VM. he will get back to you. may take a day or two. they're working hard on it, as they should. flogging people there over this just slows stuff down.
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