Suppressors with muzzlebrakes.

[VargmatII]

Im curious.
Suppressors with a muzzlebrake on the end, like the SiCo Omega. Is it working or is it just a gimmick?

Some write that if the suppressor works efficietly enough there wont be enough pressure for the muzzlebrake to do its job, thus making it pointless. And I think that seems to make a lot of sense. But thats just me.
Still these suppressors are out there, not from a lot of makers but more than one. So there might be something to it?

What does the Hide say?

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Breaks are better than suppressors for recoil reduction, but suppressors do reduce recoil a good amount.

I have an Silencerco anchor break and I thinks it makes some difference, but not dramatic. But, that rifle is not a light weight magnum either.

Many have said the Silencerco break helps the Omega meter better in sound tests, but i have no idea if it is true.

My understanding is that a break on the end of a suppressor is a huge help on 50BMG, but is pointless once you get down to short action calibers. So, I think my answer is, it depends on the caliber and weight of the rifle.

 

[VargmatII]

Breaks are better than suppressors for recoil reduction, but suppressors do reduce recoil a good amount.

I have an Silencerco anchor break and I thinks it makes some difference, but not dramatic. But, that rifle is not a light weight magnum either.

Many have said the Silencerco break helps the Omega meter better in sound tests, but i have no idea if it is true.

My understanding is that a break on the end of a suppressor is a huge help on 50BMG, but is pointless once you get down to short action calibers. So, I think my answer is, it depends on the caliber and weight of the rifle.

So its more of a gimmick than an acctual function on a regular short action type rifle? In your oppinion?
I personally cant stand shooting with brakes alone. I have pretty much shot suppressed since I took up precision rifle shooting in 2015.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I wouldn't say gimmick, but too small of a gain to be worth the extra length unless you are trying to tame a lot of recoil.

 

[jonraccrr]

You have to have enough pressure for a brake to work the whole point of a suppressor is to slow down the gasses and reduce pressure. You can’t have both. The area 419 maverick in its short form is a decent moderator and brake. It residues blast and still works as a brake. There are better brakes and suppressors out there but this is the closest I’ve seen to putting them together

 

[Old Man with Gun]

The stand alone breaks operate at higher pressure, but with relatively small surface areas on the blades that deflect the gases. I think the much larger blades on the anchor break help to make up for the difference in pressure.

I agree that how much the pressure drops is relative to the internal volume of the suppressor, but also the powder charge.

I thank when you get up to the 300 and 338 super magnums, even on a 9" or longer can, the break would have a noticeable effect.

 

[VargmatII]

To be very specifik, if I were to get one. It would be used on a regular 308 winchester. So nothing crazy at all.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

To be very specifik, if I were to get one. It would be used on a regular 308 winchester. So nothing crazy at all.

What rifle and intended use?

What is the need for a break? Comfort, fast follow up shots, spotting splash down range?

Is this more fixing an existing problem or seeking the perfect setup?

 

[kthomas]

Other options are KGM with their ATIPs system, and Abel Co Biscuit.

I'm still waiting on my Biscuit to be approved, but at one point Frank has said it's his favorite suppressor, largely due to how it recoils.

Certainly a few options out there. The above is what I would look at.

 

[jaydoc12]

I have found on larger magnum calibers, 300 WM and 300 PRC, there is slightly less recoil with the brake on the Omega 300 vs without. It's not a huge different, but noticeable. For the short actions, negligible. I don't think it will add anything to a 308.

 

[VargmatII]

What rifle and intended use?

What is the need for a break? Comfort, fast follow up shots, spotting splash down range?

Is this more fixing an existing problem or seeking the perfect setup?

Its a TRG22 that I use for PRS type shooting and long range shooting out to around 1km.
I have no problems with it as is, I can spot impacts/splash and follow up shots are as fast as they need to be.
My question is mostly driven by curiousity and maybe the everlasting search for the perfect setup.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Its a TRG22 that I use for PRS type shooting and long range shooting out to around 1km.
I have no problems with it as is, I can spot impacts/splash and follow up shots are as fast as they need to be.
My question is mostly driven by curiousity and maybe the everlasting search for the perfect setup.

I have a MPA swichlug in 6.5C I use for same. I have a 24" Sendaro profile with a break, and a 26" M24 profile with TBAC 6.5mm ultra 9 also. Have not used the break in years, maybe if I started doing matches again. No desire to change suppressor just to add a break to it.

 

[Clayman]

On magnum calibers or full auto type use you will notice the largest difference. They work but it's not that significant imo. You can tell the difference but ut also increases noise at your ear. I just run that flat caps for the most part.

I have an omega/anchor brake and a Nomad with the e brake. They do work but I don't really use them.

 

[Huskydriver]

Def makes a noticeable difference on my 338 LM.

I have a tbac 338sr and a silencerco big bore harvestor.

The tbac is a couple db quieter but the sico recoils significantly less.

On smaller calibers there is less of benefit

 

[WindstormSCR]

one of the benefits of the dead air e-brake I notice most is that it significantly reduces the amount of flash you get as gas with unburnt powder builds up in the suppressor over time if you're shooting longer strings.

There is a slight recoil benefit, but not a huge one.

 

[Feesh]

I have a Nomad-L with the E-Brake - and it seems to be better than the naked can. Didn’t notice a huge difference between the Fat Bastard Gen III and the Can, but it’s on a 6BR.

 

[Maelstrom]

How well does the DA E Brake work on an AR or SCAR type of rifle? I am waiting for them to come back in stock for my Nomad TiL that should get released soon. It is going on a lightweight .300WM, a .22-250 and occasionally on a heavy barreled .308. Several of us were given Sandman Ks to use on our Scars and 10.5" SBR'S at work. I am thinking about trying one on that suppressor to see if it helps reduce anymore sound.

 

[WindstormSCR]

How well does the DA E Brake work on an AR or SCAR type of rifle? I am waiting for them to come back in stock for my Nomad TiL that should get released soon. It is going on a lightweight .300WM, a .22-250 and occasionally on a heavy barreled .308. Several of us were given Sandman Ks to use on our Scars and 10.5" SBR'S at work. I am thinking about trying one on that suppressor to see if it helps reduce anymore sound.

Reasonably well, probably better on the 10.5 than the Scar.

SageDynamics does a good overview:

 

[AMGtuned]

Its a TRG22 that I use for PRS type shooting and long range shooting out to around 1km.
I have no problems with it as is, I can spot impacts/splash and follow up shots are as fast as they need to be.
My question is mostly driven by curiousity and maybe the everlasting search for the perfect setup.

A long time ago, SilencerStudent did a video comparison of an end cap brake with a few different calibers.

Can't remember the contents exactly, but I believe that it did not help 5.56, but did work on .308. The video may be up on his YT. If not, it's on his Patreon, which I am not a member of.

Were talking a couple db here, for an added inch. And in some cases, as has been mentioned, it can increase the db level at SE.

 

[Clayman]

How well does the DA E Brake work on an AR or SCAR type of rifle? I am waiting for them to come back in stock for my Nomad TiL that should get released soon. It is going on a lightweight .300WM, a .22-250 and occasionally on a heavy barreled .308. Several of us were given Sandman Ks to use on our Scars and 10.5" SBR'S at work. I am thinking about trying one on that suppressor to see if it helps reduce anymore sound.

This is on my 10.5" noveske sb. Sandman K with e brake and 5.56 end cap. It works but this rifle wasn't difficult to keep flat anyway.

The Sandman K is loud.


These are pictures from Holtworks. KGM R30 iirc.

The higher the pressure the more effective the brakes will be. Some designs are much better than others and I've heard the KGM design is quite effective in reducing recoil. Pewscience also shows that on the KGM at least with a 20" 308 that the APEC vents open penalty at the ear is essentially insignificant. You likely wouldn't notice. The muzzle/bystanders would probably notice a difference but even then it's not a huge penalty. I would personally run it open.

So for ts and others it depends on the silencer and round used.

 

[viking78]

I have a Norwegian A-Tec PRS3 hybrid.
What i have used it, i think it does cut recoil better than normal suppressor.

 

[TurboTrout]

for my 308 I use a little bastard brake, not that the 308 has much recoil anyways, but less is always better, a suppressor is cool on a 22 or subsonic, but if I have to wear earpro anyway

 

[NiteQwill]

The Maverick in my experience is the only suppressor that mitigates recoil like a brake with the benefits of the reduced sound/concussion that suppressors provide.

For reference, I have the Maverick, Nomad + ebrake, Omega + brake.

 

[VargmatII]

I have a Norwegian A-Tec PRS3 hybrid.
What i have used it, i think it does cut recoil better than normal suppressor.

Its acctually just an A-Tec PRS2 or PRS3 that has caught my eye. I live in Sweden and with the changed laws, suppressors will be everywhere looking forward.

 

[VargmatII]

for my 308 I use a little bastard brake, not that the 308 has much recoil anyways, but less is always better, a suppressor is cool on a 22 or subsonic, but if I have to wear earpro anyway

Even if you still have to wear earpro, shooting with a suppressor is always better. It makes things easier, more comfortable and it looks cool too.

 

[viking78]

Its acctually just an A-Tec PRS2 or PRS3 that has caught my eye. I live in Sweden and with the changed laws, suppressors will be everywhere looking forward.

Mine is PRS3.

 

[VargmatII]

Mine is PRS3.

So, since you have tested more than a few different suppressors.
Would you choose an A-Tec PRS3 or a Jaki Titan power?

 

[Lunchbox27]

I have a SilCo Omega 300 and the original Harvester. Shot multi calibers through both. I have swapped to the flat end cap on the Omega and really cannot tell a difference in recoil. Cannot speak for the newer can’s that have this feature, only the ones I have.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I have a Hybrid that I use on a 458 SOCOM and also 300 blackout upper. I got the anchor break in .30 to see if the smaller exit hole would be a little quieter. I got the anchor break to make sure I had a visual reminder not to shoot a .458 through a .30 end cap.

I can't tell any difference in sound or recoil.

I plan on opening up .30 to use with .458, SOCOM that will probably be noticable, but never get around to it.

 

[viking78]

So, since you have tested more than a few different suppressors.
Would you choose an A-Tec PRS3 or a Jaki Titan power?

Titan power is for for big guns, they made me this 6,5mm version of it.
I can say that it is very very quiet, but weights about 550gram, though the PRS3 ain light either, about the same.

 

[VargmatII]

Titan power is for for big guns, they made me this 6,5mm version of it.
I can say that it is very very quiet, but weights about 550gram, though the PRS3 ain light either, about the same.

I run a Ase Utra SL7i BL for the last two years. Its heavy but extremely reliable and durable. Im very happy with it. But curiousity has made me look around.

 

[Terry Cross]

Im curious.
Suppressors with a muzzlebrake on the end, like the SiCo Omega. Is it working or is it just a gimmick?

Some write that if the suppressor works efficietly enough there wont be enough pressure for the muzzlebrake to do its job, thus making it pointless. And I think that seems to make a lot of sense. But thats just me.
Still these suppressors are out there, not from a lot of makers but more than one. So there might be something to it?

What does the Hide say?

What drives muzzle brake performance?
High volume of high speed gas.

What drives good suppressor performance?
Slowing down, dispersing and cooling high speed gas.

In my opinion, if the suppressor is doing it's job, there is little left to drive a brake type device on the muzzle end of a suppressor.

I have a fair number of Omega 300s drop shipped to agencies to match up to arriving KMW rifles.
All are ordered "ala carte" with the flat cap on the front of the suppressor body.

To us, the Anchor Brake adds 1" of length we don't need, it provides no recoil reduction and also provides an excellent target for Murphy to bite you in the ass with a twig or piece of grass in the baffles that you didn't notice.

Regarding the pics and videos, flash coming out of front ports, vents or brakes does not equate to harnessing high speed gas for recoil reduction.

./

 

[kthomas]

What drives muzzle brake performance?
High volume of high speed gas.

What drives good suppressor performance?
Slowing down, dispersing and cooling high speed gas.

In my opinion, if the suppressor is doing it's job, there is little left to drive a brake type device on the muzzle end of a suppressor.

I have a fair number of Omega 300s drop shipped to agencies to match up to arriving KMW rifles.
All are ordered "ala carte" with the flat cap on the front of the suppressor body.

To us, the Anchor Brake adds 1" of length we don't need, it provides no recoil reduction and also provides an excellent target for Murphy to bite you in the ass with a twig or piece of grass in the baffles that you didn't notice.

Regarding the pics and videos, flash coming out of front ports, vents or brakes does not equate to harnessing high speed gas for recoil reduction.

./

Exactly.

The function of the two systems are diametrically opposed to each other from a physics standpoint.

I also put a flat end cap on my wife's Omega. Great can. I don't see any real utility in putting a brake on the end.

 

[VargmatII]

Ill just stick with what I got and keep truckin. My Ase Utra has not dissapointed me yet.

 

[spife7980]

Sure the higher the gas speeds the more work is done by the brake but that just means its effect is mitigated, not negated.
I can notice a difference between my flat cap omega and my anchor braked omega. Thats why I have put the anchor braked model on my guns for matches, because I CAN tell.

 

[CMP70306]

I have tested the Dead Air E-Brake with the Nomad L on a 6.5 PRC and the recoil difference was noticeable enough that I left it on.

The .46 Cal Anchor Brake on a Hybrid does wonders for reducing the recoil of a smokeless muzzleloader to the point that even if it isn’t super quiet I won’t shoot it without the can.

 

[giumau1]

Its acctually just an A-Tec PRS2 or PRS3 that has caught my eye. I live in Sweden and with the changed laws, suppressors will be everywhere looking forward.

What changed in your laws about suppressors?

 

[VargmatII]

What changed in your laws about suppressors?

From the 1 of July. You dont need a separate license for each suppressor. If you have a firearms license, you are free to purchase a suppressor for that firearm. It does not matter if its a competition rifle, hunting rifle, pistol, shotgun or whatever.
Previousely you had to have very thurough documentation to get a suppressor for anything below a 223 remington or similar (class 2 calibers in Swedish classification system). You had to apply for a license in the same way you do for a firearm and wate for usually 4-8 weeks.
Before the 1 of July, getting a suppressor for a pistol or a shotgun was pretty much impossible.
Now, all you have to do is go to the gun-store pick a suppressor that fits your gun, pay and take it home with you, right then and there. Pretty awesome, right?
Suppressor sales are through the roof right now. Stores cant keep them on the shelf.

 

[FuhQ]

Can you still buy new production “Verboten” weapons with a 4-8 week approved license?

If so, Sweden is looking good…

 

[VargmatII]

Can you still buy new production “Verboten” weapons with a 4-8 week approved license?

If so, Sweden is looking good…

Not sure what you are asking?
Other gunlaws are unchanged. You need a hunters diploma to apply for a license on hunting guns, and you need to be an active and certified/credited sports shooter to get sporting guns.
Which guns do you fit inte the ”verboten” category?

 

[FuhQ]

Not sure what you are asking?
Other gunlaws are unchanged. You need a hunters diploma to apply for hunting guns, and you need to be an active and certified/credited sports shooter to get sporting guns.
Wich guns do you fit inte the ”verboten” category?

Full-auto, short barrels, etc…

 

[VargmatII]

Full-auto, short barrels, etc…

Those are still NO BUENO, and on the Verboten list.

 

[FuhQ]

Those are still NO BUENO, and on the Verboten list.

Yes, but I've watched several documentaries about you being able to apply and get permitted to get on that list, where you can purchase them. It still requires a gun permit application, plus another special permit application that takes a couple weeks to a couple months for approval, and fees, and all sorts of stuff. That's the way it was explained in the documentary. Just more paperwork and permits, but you can still purchase Verboten weapons, just requires some extra steps?

Found them...

 

[Lazyfaire]

To be very specifik, if I were to get one. It would be used on a regular 308 winchester. So nothing crazy at all.

So I'm completely clear, are you talking of a brake on the end of your rifle that a suppressor will mount on it?

If so, SilencerCo uses an ASR mount that screws into the can and then screws down onto the brake and has a sliding lock on the can collar. Often used on any other rifle that utilizes the SiCo brake or flash hider (threading is the same for the ASR). Easy to just move the silencer over to your 223/556 or another 30 cal rifle.

If I misunderstood the original question just file this away!

Lazyfaire

 

[Milemarker28]

Might be worth a few minutes of the OP’s time;

 

[VargmatII]

Yes, but I've watched several documentaries about you being able to apply and get permitted to get on that list, where you can purchase them. It still requires a gun permit application, plus another special permit application that takes a couple weeks to a couple months for approval, and fees, and all sorts of stuff. That's the way it was explained in the documentary. Just more paperwork and permits, but you can still purchase Verboten weapons, just requires some extra steps?

Found them...

Ha, classic!
I am in Sweden not Switzerland…

 

[FuhQ]

Ha, classic!
I am in Sweden not Switzerland…

Yep, my bad...

 

[Eurodriver]

I’ve found an E brake on my Sandman K very helpful on my machine gun.

Otherwise nah

 

[Mr.BR]

Suppressors with muzzle brakes and tuners on them

South African Gunwarrior

 

[Lazyfaire]

Suppressors with muzzle brakes and tuners on them

South African Gunwarrior

Thank you. Just had never seen one.